columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:32 am

How does Air Berlin use their 737s and A320s ? Do the aircraft have different routes and roles or can it be that a route primarly served by a 737 can be an A320 the next day ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:13 pm

Nobody ?
Anyway I have a some more questions regarding AB´s fleet: Are there any plans to retire the F100s ? If yes, will they be replaced with the 737-700s on order.
I also always forget AB´s customer code with Boeing. Is it 6Q ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Joelatbsl
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:51 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:18 pm

AB's customer code is 6J, so most of their B737s are either 86J or 76J, where as leased and inherited planes may carry different codes. Also their 400s were 46J.

IIRC AB's F100s are to be replaced by B737-700s which were ordered by DBA before Air Berlin took them over.

Cheers

JOEL
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Joelatbsl (Reply 2):
AB's customer code is 6J, so most of their B737s are either 86J or 76J, where as leased and inherited planes may carry different codes. Also their 400s were 46J.

IIRC AB's F100s are to be replaced by B737-700s which were ordered by DBA before Air Berlin took them over.

Thanks
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
How does Air Berlin use their 737s and A320s ? Do the aircraft have different routes and roles or can it be that a route primarly served by a 737 can be an A320 the next day ?

When they started with A320 at first they could only be seen at the larger hubs, such as TXL, DUS, NUE etc ... now they can be seen virtually everywhere. They have now about 25 buses and it would make planning (especially the tail numbering process) extremely hard, I think it is not further practical to limit their use to certain airports ..

Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
I also always forget AB´s customer code with Boeing. Is it 6Q ?

6J IIRC

Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
Anyway I have a some more questions regarding AB´s fleet: Are there any plans to retire the F100s ? If yes, will they be replaced with the 737-700s on order.

AB really depend on those 100seaters, they make many of the domestic viable in the first place. Also at smaller airports like PAD you can see them quite often. Further more they are leased, so AB is bound to the leasing contracts with its decision.

The new B73Gs will replace the B733s in the first place (as orginally intended by DBA from whom they inherited that order). The ordered B738s will replace leased B738s and A320S will be used for expansion and will also replace some of the older Boeings. I don't know about the B735 odd bird. It's also leased ... .

AB is going to move away from the leasing a bit in order to strengthen their equity base. As a public aviation company you really depend on your credit rating.

[Edited 2007-08-11 16:31:58]
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
When they started with A320 at first they could only be seen at the larger hubs, such as TXL, DUS, NUE etc ... now they can be seen virtually everywhere. They have now about 25 buses and it would make planning (especially the tail numbering process) extremely hard, I think it is not further practical to limit their use to certain airports ..

Thanks for your answer. Informative as always. My idea behind this thread was the different roles of the 737 and A320 fleet. I was wondering if they are used differently. So far I have not seen the A320 on "classic" leisure flights but only 737s so I was wondering if the A320 is only used on city flights.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
AB really depend on those 100seaters, they make many of the domestic viable in the first place. Also at smaller airports like PAD you can see them quite often. Further more they are leased, so AB is bound to the leasing contracts with its decision.

But since these F100s are leased from Germania they practically belong to the company since Hunold is involved there, too. When will the leasing contracts run out ? I believe the F100s are also not the youngest.
I can not imagine that with all these A32x, 737s and 787s on order AB will order or lease E-Jets, Suckhois Superjets, Bombardiers to replace the F100s that would be simply too much.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 4):
I don't know about the B735 odd bird. It's also leased ... .

If you mean the former DBA 735 that was leased. I don´t know of any other 737-500s in ABs fleet. Is it already painted in AB colors ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
RAFVC10
Posts: 1344
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:48 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
Are there any plans to retire the F100s ?

I don't know the answer to your question but in the last weeks, AB used to fly the 100 equipment from PMI to little spanish airports such as MJV, XRY, OVD and other points in the Iberic Peninsula.

Regards,

Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):

But since these F100s are leased from Germania they practically belong to the company since Hunold is involved there, too.

That story is actually quite interesting. Hunold (AB CEO) and Hinrich Bischoff (former Germania Boss) did not really like each other over years. About a year before Hinrich died in 2005, Hunold and Hinrich became friends and at the time he died Hunold had to promise him to take care of his company. At this time AB had already leased some F100 from Germania and Germania had sold their entire flight operations to DBA. Later on Hunold proposed to the community of heirs to bind Germania to AB by a management contract, but heirs decided against the last will of Hinrich and for Germania to remain independent. Thus the involvment of Hunold never materialized.

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
When will the leasing contracts run out ?

I don't know, but I don't think that will be more than one or two years. Considering that those machines don't become younger Germania will be quite flexible with regard to a new contract or the extension of the existing ones ... Germania bought those F100s out of the desert for very very little money (rumors were 1Mil$ a piece w/o "post-desert-overhaul")

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
I believe the F100s are also not the youngest.

The have been build between 1989 and 1992.

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
I believe the F100s are also not the youngest.
I can not imagine that with all these A32x, 737s and 787s on order AB will order or lease E-Jets, Suckhois Superjets, Bombardiers to replace the F100s that would be simply too much.

Me neither and due to Germania not having paid much for them there is a big chance that leasing rates are low enough to compensate for higher fuel burn etc.

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
Is it already painted in AB colors ?

yes


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Klaus Ecker

 
xtra1
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:47 am

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:18 am

There is a good site for Air Berlin info; its at :-
http://www.jet737.de/
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 7):
Is it already painted in AB colors ?

yes

Nice, somehow I like stubby look of the -500  Wink

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 7):
Me neither and due to Germania not having paid much for them there is a big chance that leasing rates are low enough to compensate for higher fuel burn etc.

Still they can not fly them forever. They will either go without a real replacement which means A319s and 737-700s will be used instead or in about 5 years AB will either lease or buy some regional aircraft.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Joelatbsl
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:51 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
My idea behind this thread was the different roles of the 737 and A320 fleet. I was wondering if they are used differently. So far I have not seen the A320 on "classic" leisure flights but only 737s so I was wondering if the A320 is only used on city flights.

They actually also get used to pure leisure destinations, even to the Canary Islands. Today's ZRH ops for instance featured A320s operating to Lanzarote, Gran Canaria and Alicante as well as Alicante. An A319 was operating a flight to Fuerteventura.

My personal hope is that their BSL ops (starting in November) will also bring us a certain mix and not just the yet planned A320s. Does anyone know if flights to Egypt also get flown by A320s?

Cheers

JOEL
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:56 pm

There is an A320 focus on city shuttle fights because of the slightly lower capacity of these aircraft vs. the B738 (174:186 seats) and performance issues of the A320 on longer flights expecially from airports with short runways.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
egmcman
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:28 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:32 pm

The F100's are used regularly on STN services as 737-700's & 800's occasionally they get the Airbuses.
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 11):
There is an A320 focus on city shuttle fights because of the slightly lower capacity of these aircraft vs. the B738 (174:186 seats) and performance issues of the A320 on longer flights expecially from airports with short runways.

That is what I was thinking.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
So far I have not seen the A320 on "classic" leisure flights but only 737s so I was wondering if the A320 is only used on city flights.

A320's are frequently used to the usual destinations around the Mediteranean. Just check the departure/arrival-information on airberlin.com and you'll see that the Airbus is seen just a frequently as the B737 on these short- to medium haul routes.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:38 pm

For example, neither Airbuses nor B737-700s are scheduled to operate AB flights to Tunisia ! Only the 738s are ! Of course, exceptions could happen from time to time...
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:04 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 15):
either Airbuses nor B737-700s are scheduled to operate AB flights to Tunisia ! Only the 738s are ! Of course, exceptions could happen from time to time...

That makes think of another question:
How are the 737-700s and A319s used in comparision to its larger sisters?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:11 pm

I think :

F-100 : secondary airports domestic network, B733/737/A319 domestic and international shuttles, A320/B738 hubbing, B738 charters !

This is not too much realistic, but it could be a summary of the AB fleet dispatch !

German A.Netters are welcome to correct my mistakes...  Wink
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 17):
F-100 : secondary airports domestic network, B733/737/A319 domestic and international shuttles, A320/B738 hubbing, B738 charters !

That would make sense. Would be interesting to know if A319s and 737-700s are occasionally used for charters as well.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
jdevora
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:41 am

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 11):
There is an A320 focus on city shuttle fights because of the slightly lower capacity of these aircraft vs. the B738 (174:186 seats) and performance issues of the A320 on longer flights expecially from airports with short runways.

Is this really an issue for intra-european flights?

I just checked http://www.airberlin.com and the flight HG5166 from Viena to Arrecife (Lanzarote) (around 4 hours) is served by an A321 that AFAIK has less range than an A320.

Cheers
JD
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 19):
I just checked http://www.airberlin.com and the flight HG5166 from Viena to Arrecife (Lanzarote) (around 4 hours) is served by an A321 that AFAIK has less range than an A320.

That is a FlyNiki flight. They simply don't have B737s. I think what TriStar500 refered to are flights like PAD-HRG. Such flights have more than 5hours and PAD only has about 7150ft (2180m) of runway. That's where B738s are clearly better than A320/A321.
 
User avatar
airbuseric
Posts: 3560
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:24 am

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
Would be interesting to know if A319s and 737-700s are occasionally used for charters as well.

If we might consider AMS-PMI as a 'charter', we saw the A320 for months on the route, then it changed to B737-700 and B737-800, and nowadays it's all -800 on this route.

RMI-AMS sees the B733 usually, but also the A319 has been seen here.
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
EIDAA
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:12 am

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
If you mean the former DBA 735 that was leased. I don´t know of any other 737-500s in ABs fleet. Is it already painted in AB colors ?

I believe that is leaving the fleet in the coming months as the lease expires.

Regarding the operations, I have for example seen A320s, -800s and -700s at MJV. They seem to vary the equipment on that route, but I don't really know about the trunk routes in and out of PMI.
Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 20):
That is a FlyNiki flight. They simply don't have B737s. I think what TriStar500 refered to are flights like PAD-HRG. Such flights have more than 5hours and PAD only has about 7150ft (2180m) of runway. That's where B738s are clearly better than A320/A321.

Exactly.  Smile
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting EIDAA (Reply 22):
I believe that is leaving the fleet in the coming months as the lease expires.

That would be really a waste to paint the aircraft in full AB colors if it is going to leave the fleet anyway !!
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
acelanzarote
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:52 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
Would be interesting to know if A319s and 737-700s are occasionally used for charters as well.

The Air Berlin flight from ZRH to ACE was a A319 for a long time before upgrading to a A320
I guess due to good bookings, Air Berlin have been sending a A319 on the HAM-ACE the
last few sat's 737-700's are a bit rarer but do turn up, poss as last minute changes
or scheduling issuies etc..

cheers from Lanzarote
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
 
f.pier
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:36 am

In BGY they use all kind of equipment.

Last month I flew to TXL and I hoped to take the 319/320, but unfortunately I took the 733 going and coming back!!!!
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting F.pier (Reply 26):
Last month I flew to TXL and I hoped to take the 319/320, but unfortunately I took the 733 going and coming back!!!!

The enormous type variety they currently have might be bad for mx costs, training etc, but it is certainly great to drive load factors to new heights. They can address any market between 100 and 200 seats quite effectively.
 
jdevora
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:41 am

RE: Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s

Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 20):
That is a FlyNiki flight. They simply don't have B737s. I think what TriStar500 refered to are flights like PAD-HRG. Such flights have more than 5hours and PAD only has about 7150ft (2180m) of runway. That's where B738s are clearly better than A320/A321.

Ok, today's AB5170 Hamburg-Fuerteventura (around 4:20 hours) and Nuremberg -Fuerteventura (around 5:00 hours) where operated by two Air Berlin A320 (I saw both landings).

There could be some special cases as you noted (I don't really know) but on a general basis I don't think that there is a really significant difference between those two types.

JD