n917me
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:32 pm

With Joe and Co. attempt at taking over a second airline (TZ and YX) failing again, I am curious what other think their next step is? They do have a ot of aircraft coming on line over the next few years, they have pulled some markets recently (MDW BOS) most recently. Will their stock continue to fall? Will shareholders start to question leadership?

I am sure Joe will flood the MKE market and try to make YX bleed, offering "29.00 fares" But, if they were smart, they would learn from what happened when NW tried that.
 
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zippyjet
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting N917ME (Thread starter):
they have pulled some markets recently (MDW BOS) most recently

We pack out BOS flights out of BWI and I understand we are doing just fine at MDW. Joe and company may have failed in your eyes but remember that old addage: He who laughs last laughs hardest! I still have confidence in our CEO.
We are growing and doing well. Only time will tell.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
n917me
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 1):
understand we are doing just fine at MDW

ummm, FL just announced they are dropping that route, so it must be doing great... right?

Not that I wish ill towards FL and the employees, but I am just curious as to what everyone thinks since FL really hasn't discussed much about the future if they did not acquire YX. It seemed like the FL camp was overconfident and felt it was a done deal. The local FL manager even was bragging about how the merger was a done deal.
 
Crewchief
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:27 pm

My guess is that FL is not worried about the new aircraft they have on order. They can profitably sell those aircraft. Or thay can cast about for a boatload of new routes. I'm curious about the routes they may open up. It seems to me that they need to add at least one focus area to their existing ATL and Florida areas.

I read in the Midwest press release that TPG is purchasing Midwest though a $15B fund. With resources behind Midwest like that, I doubt FL will go head to head in Milwaukee. And with Southwest and Midwest in Kansas city, I doubt they will go head to head there either.

So what's next? STL?
 
drgmobile
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:18 pm

A good place to start in discussing the carrier might be to get the airline's name right. It's "Air Tran" not "Airtrans"
 
DAYflyer
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:32 pm

They have more aircraft coming on line alright. They are certainly fishing for more new routes. The recently added DAY-LAS, which should work well for them. I have always wondered why they never went into this area with more routes.
One Nation Under God
 
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tjwgrr
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 4):
A good place to start in discussing the carrier might be to get the airline's name right. It's "Air Tran" not "Airtrans"

Actually it's AirTran, not Air Tran.

Correct title to this thread other than the missing apostophe ie- "AirTran's Future"
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
n917me
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 6):
AirTran's Future"

with the apostrophe it would read,,, "AirTran is"
 
Mikey711MN
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 4):
A good place to start in discussing the carrier might be to get the airline's name right.

Ironically, I think this whole YX-FL ordeal has raised enough awareness of "Midwest Airlines" that the "Midwest Express" moniker can finally go away.  Wink

Back on topic...

Quoting Crewchief (Reply 3):
I read in the Midwest press release that TPG is purchasing Midwest though a $15B fund. With resources behind Midwest like that, I doubt FL will go head to head in Milwaukee.

While that's a significant fund, no manager is going to be interested in tapping a vast resource to pour money into a potentially money-losing venture, be it YX on yield-crashing routes where they face LCC competition or anything else for that matter. With that said, there will be little room for YX to slip up from a profitability standpoint, and if Joe's comments regarding YX's exposure are true, I'd almost expect airlines like B6, WN, and FL to smell that blood in the water.

That's a big "if" though...surely the PR campaign in Milwaukee deluded that market into thinking that FL offers a low-value service, and as such may choose YX on sheer principle should they embark on some of YX's bread-and-butter routes, e.g. MKE-BOS, MKE-LGA, MKE-DCA, etc.

More later,
-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
quickmover
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:10 pm

Airtran has said before, that the vast majority of YX revenue comes from a handfull of routes. I would suspect that they already knew which ones they were, after their due diligence, they know for sure. I would look for more MKE flights if they have the gates to do so.
 
Crewchief
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:24 pm

Quibbling about apostrophes aside, any speculation on the future of FL?

(he says, successfully avoiding the grammatical issue)
 
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mke717spotter
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:35 pm

I think FL needs to open up some new markets with all those new aircraft coming. Some that come to mind: DSM, OMA, OKC, PDX, and SLC. I'm sure they could make some of those cities work.
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MSYtristar
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting N917ME (Reply 2):
It seemed like the FL camp was overconfident and felt it was a done deal

That's because people think Joe Loeonard is a God amongst airline CEO's and he'll get his way at no cost. The truth, however, is far from that.
 
n917me
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Airtran's Future

Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:54 pm

[

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 12):
That's because people think Joe Loeonard is a God amongst airline CEO's and he'll get his way at no cost. The truth, however, is far from that.

Well his last two battles (TZ/MDW and YX) were lost.

Anyway, it will be intersted to see what their next step will be. I think they will try to flood MKE and compete head to head on the YX routes, however with the YX loyalty, it may be an uphill battle. NW tried twice, while YX was bleeding and still lost.

Joe states in his press release that YX employees should worry about their jobs/future, is it a disservice to shareholders...


How is all cash 16.00/share a disservice to shareholders... the institutional shareholders were in it for a quick buck.. and thats what they got. Do you hear Octavian backing Joe up? Hell no. They are going to make a quick buck on this deal, more that they woukd have got with a FL/YX deal.

TPG helped CO and HP out. CO is one of the best airlines in the states and HP went from BK to purchasing US.
 
Indy
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting N917ME (Reply 7):
with the apostrophe it would read,,, "AirTran is"

Actually with the apostrophe is correct. It shows possession. The future belonging to AirTran. Sorry I had to add my two cents to this amusing conversation.  Smile

Quoting Crewchief (Reply 3):
So what's next? STL?

In STL they are going up against AA and WN. Both have very large operations. That would seem less likely. In IND they'd have to take on NW and that would get ugly fast. CMH has SX now so I am not sure if that would be the ideal location. What about DAY? What is their situation?

If FL could stomach a battle with NW at IND they could do well. Now that the Brits have given up control of running the airport here I'd think FL should be able to get what they want. The City of Indianapolis is running the show again and they are notorious for corporate giveaways. With the jobs promise like UA made to get the billion dollar maintenance facility I'm sure FL could get IND to add gates to the new terminal for them to hub from. There is quite an embarrassing list of giveaways by the city. Why not add another to the list?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
daus
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting N917ME (Reply 14):
think they will try to flood MKE and compete head to head on the YX routes,

Joe's intent all along was not just to "win" the MKE market, it was to build a national east/west airline faciliated by a northerly Midwest hub. Beating YK up on a few routes doesn't do much for him. He needs to find his hub. Still could be MKE on some level if he were to grab every available gate.
 
quickmover
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 15):
If FL could stomach a battle with NW at IND they could do well. Now that the Brits have given up control of running the airport here I'd think FL should be able to get what they want. The City of Indianapolis is running the show again and they are notorious for corporate giveaways. With the jobs promise like UA made to get the billion dollar maintenance facility I'm sure FL could get IND to add gates to the new terminal for them to hub from. There is quite an embarrassing list of giveaways by the city. Why not add another to the list?

I think that's a good idea. Maybe not a full fledged hub, but something along the lines of BWI or a little larger. There are several other citys where they could do the same thing. Maybe MSP, DTW, or MEM. Frontier has been doing some interesting things in MEM lately.
 
jetjeanes
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:16 am

Could they have aquired it to rip it apart selling the a/c gates etc???? and eliminateing competion for Nw in some markets..
i can see for 80 miles
 
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OzarkD9S
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 15):


In STL they are going up against AA and WN. Both have very large operations. That would seem less likely.

All those empty gates at STL may be too tempting for FL to ignore. And many of us here are of the opinion that AA won't fight tooth and nail in STL like they would at MIA, DFW and ORD. Those planes FL has coming down the pike have to go somewhere...ATL is about maxed out for them. Things are about to get REAL interesting. FL may not hub here, but the gates are there for the taking.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
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STT757
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:26 am

There's alot of expansion they can still do from ATL, both domestically and to the Caribbean, Mexico and Canada. Same with MCO, they should continue to expand ATL and MCO. After that perhaps make a play for F9.

Also with regards to expanding ATL and MCO why not bring in X-Jet, ExpressJet is taking a bath on those new routes they started in the Southwest. Bring them in to ATL and MCO.

[Edited 2007-08-13 19:28:33]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Indy
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 19):
All those empty gates at STL may be too tempting for FL to ignore. And many of us here are of the opinion that AA won't fight tooth and nail in STL like they would at MIA, DFW and ORD. Those planes FL has coming down the pike have to go somewhere...ATL is about maxed out for them. Things are about to get REAL interesting. FL may not hub here, but the gates are there for the taking.

If you have a choice between having AA or FL with a large operation at STL who would you pick? I'm sure STL would love to make a pitch to FL to pick up those gates. The question will be what passengers FL targets. Are there any markets out of STL that lack service or sufficient service? For example do 1000 people a day travel to LAS but there is only 2x daily service where FL could add flights and have some O/D to capture? Its going to be hard being the 3rd guy coming in and trying to pick up the leftovers. It would probably be easier for AA or WN to expand than it would be for FL to.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
citrus1
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:37 am

I Think the Topic should be: Midwest future, with Northwest as a backer. Airtran will do just fine, Midwest was not worth nearly 1/2 a billion $.
 
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zippyjet
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
They have more aircraft coming on line alright. They are certainly fishing for more new routes. The recently added DAY-LAS

We recently started BWI-MKE-LAS. Doing quite nicley. Try non-revving on it.  Smile We are adding more flights and cities out of my station BWI which is a strong focus city. With the aquisition of new birds, we can beef up a lot of our existing routes. As we head towards the Fall and Winter expect increased service to our Florida destinations.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
goingboeing
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Citrus1 (Reply 22):
I Think the Topic should be: Midwest future, with Northwest as a backer. Airtran will do just fine, Midwest was not worth nearly 1/2 a billion $.

Agreed. IMHO, AirTran will do just fine. Midwest...well, going private isn't the best news for their employees...I haven't seen many companies that were taken private where the employees didn't suffer. Come to think of it, I can't think of a single airline merger where a whole lotta people didn't get screwed.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 21):


Its going to be hard being the 3rd guy coming in and trying to pick up the leftovers.

They're already here, and have already added SRQ to the initial ATL/MCO flights. They do quite a bit of radio advertising, I hear around 3-4 AirTran commericials a day at work. While a full blown TWA-sized hub won't come to pass from FL (or AA/WN for that matter) a decent sized focus city/mini-hub (whatever you wanna call it) is perfectly feasible, say around the size of FL's ops at BWI.

BOS, BWI, TPA, FLL, LAX, CAK, LAS, SEA, SFO for instance would do nicely for FL out of STL, especially if scheduled for connections or thru flights like CAK-STL-LAX or SEA-STL-FLL etc...
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
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modernArt
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Citrus1 (Reply 22):
I Think the Topic should be: Midwest future, with Northwest as a backer. Airtran will do just fine, Midwest was not worth nearly 1/2 a billion $.

Exactly what I was thinking when I opened this thread.

Quoting N917ME (Reply 14):
...however with the YX loyalty...

People's loyalty is to their wallet, period.
 
quickmover
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 26):
People's loyalty is to their wallet, period.

I couldn't agree more. FL flights out of MKE have not been empty by a long shot and their cost structure is among the best. They can keep the fares cheap and still make money. Can YX say that?
 
MKENut
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:36 am

AirTran not actively seeking a merger. Full Story here: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/070813/airtran_prospects.html?.v=1

The story makes it look like AirTran maybe ripe for the picking. Could another airline pursue AirTran for a merger???
 
Crewchief
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 26):
People's loyalty is to their wallet, period.

If that was true, everybody would buy the most inexpensive automobile available, not use air conditioning, and never eat out. Instead, people seek to maximize utility.

Some people look to travel at the lowest cost. That's FL's market. Some seek to travel better at significantly lower cost than first class fares. That's a big part of YX's market.

I suppose if you and I were traveling DCA-SAN later this month, I'd take YX, and you'd take FL. Neither one of us is making a bad choice; we're just making the choice that provides the best value to us individually.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 27):
I couldn't agree more. FL flights out of MKE have not been empty by a long shot and their cost structure is among the best. They can keep the fares cheap and still make money. Can YX say that?

Yes they can. Even though they faced significant costs fending off a hostile takeover. Where does this FUD come from about YX not making money, anyway. Can't anyone go to SEC.gov and look it up for themselves?
 
FlyPNS1
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Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:51 am

I guess it's possible that someone could acquire Airtran, though I'm not really sure who. For most of the legacies, buying FL wouldn't do much for them. FL works in ATL (and MCO/BWI) because they have low costs. But if a legacy bought FL, their higher-cost structure would likely destroy much of FL's network. Of course, the legacy could simply take all the FL planes and redistribute them across the network, but I don't honestly see any legacy that needs that many planes that fast.

Among the LCC's, the only real contender would seem to be WN. It would be an interesting merger, though given WN's rapidly rising cost structure, I'm not sure they want the hassle of a large merger.


Independently, FL still has room to grow. There's still some room at ATL. There's also a lots of p2p routes as well...if FL is willing to tolerate some initial losses. The only thing really missing is that elusive 2nd hub.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Airtrans Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Crewchief (Reply 30):
Some people look to travel at the lowest cost. That's FL's market. Some seek to travel better at significantly lower cost than first class fares. That's a big part of YX's market.

Here's the problem - I just priced a MCI-MCO routing on both. One was for a flight this Friday, returning Sunday. Midwest was $314 and Airtran was $326. Then I booked the same routing a month from now - Midwest was $158 and Airtran was $179. You read those numbers right...Midwest was cheaper for both...despite it being a nonstop flight. Sure, it's a great deal, but Midwest isn't making money with fares like that. And IMHO, there is not enough of a niche to allow Midwest to charge any kind of a premium on routes like that. If there were....they would.
 
srbmod
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RE: Airtrans Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
There's alot of expansion they can still do from ATL, both domestically and to the Caribbean, Mexico and Canada.

Unless some more gates magically appear (although some of the international service would operate out of E), FL will not be doing too much more expanding out of ATL. Look at all of the P2P flying they've added that bypasses ATL. They added PWM and serve it out of BWI, not ATL.

FL really does need to focus on growth outside of ATL. They really do need to establish a second true hub further west. Could somewhere like RNO or FAT work as a hub for them?
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:29 am

well we know airtran is looking for a 2nd hub... however, as we have seen with WN, a hub is not required to be sucessful. FL could beef up a few focus cities and also run 1 or 2 stop flights like WN does, such as MKE-IND-PNS-FLL or TPA-IND-MSP.

Other potential things perhaps some Q400 feeder services for MCO and BWI, maybe ATL if there is room,

MCO feeder routes:
RSW
SRQ
JAX
PNS
TLH
EYW
VPS

BWI feeder routes
HPN
SYR
BTV
RIC
PHF
AVP

ATL feeder routes
CHA
GSP
BHM
HSV
CAE
CSG


Also perhaps they can expand their F9 marketing agreement to a code share

While it wasnt the desired outcome, theres no shortage of opportunities.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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JBo
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 30):
Here's the problem - I just priced a MCI-MCO routing on both. One was for a flight this Friday, returning Sunday. Midwest was $314 and Airtran was $326. Then I booked the same routing a month from now - Midwest was $158 and Airtran was $179. You read those numbers right...Midwest was cheaper for both...despite it being a nonstop flight. Sure, it's a great deal, but Midwest isn't making money with fares like that. And IMHO, there is not enough of a niche to allow Midwest to charge any kind of a premium on routes like that. If there were....they would.

Midwest's low fares on that route are offset by premium fares they can charge on more business-oriented routes such as LGA.

That's how it works ... charge the higher fares on the routes people are willing to pay the money for so you can charge lower fares elsewhere.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 33):
Midwest's low fares on that route are offset by premium fares they can charge on more business-oriented routes such as LGA.

That's how it works ... charge the higher fares on the routes people are willing to pay the money for so you can charge lower fares elsewhere.

because that worked out so well for the legacies in the late 90's and early 2000's through today as LCCs keep invading legacies gravy routes.

That plan aint gonna work once FL or B6 adds NYC-MKE, and thats the pint Fl was trying to make against their stand alone plan, and it was a valid point too...
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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mariner
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 32):
Also perhaps they can expand their F9 marketing agreement to a code share

I think that is probable. There was some talk about it on the finance boards recently, and supposedly it was stated in an Airtran SEC filing.

I couldn't find it, and I have not seen any other reference to it, but it makes sense to me.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:56 am

FL and YX have niches. I see YX and FL ordering more a/c and opening up new markets. FL could add more flights out of MCO and BWI. YX would likely expand out of MKE when they receive new a/c.

Hunter
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:01 am

AirTran could always spend millions of dollars more to go fight it out with Alaska Airlines...though they would end up in the same spot...no where.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 32):
Other potential things perhaps some Q400 feeder services for MCO and BWI, maybe ATL if there is room,

I think if the Q400 idea works for F9, it's something FL might want to consider. FL's try at the CRJ didn't work so well, but the economics of the Q400 are better. Particularly at BWI, the Q400 would allow FL to build-up smaller routes and stay clear of WN. Might even try some unusual routes like HVN-BWI and ERI-BWI. With enough feed, they could eventually launch more head to head routes against WN. The Q400 might also be useful for whatever city they try and make their next hub (MKE?, IND?, STL?, DAY?).

At ATL, the Q400 might be problematic due to a lack of space. And at MCO, they'd be flying against DL connection on many routes. I'm not sure if routes like PNS-MCO can support two carriers.
 
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STT757
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 31):
They really do need to establish a second true hub further west. Could somewhere like RNO or FAT work as a hub for them?

The easiest way to accomplish that would be a merger/takeover of F9, who have been having some difficulty as of the last couple of quarters,
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting Daus (Reply 15):
Joe's intent all along was not just to "win" the MKE market, it was to build a national east/west airline faciliated by a northerly Midwest hub. Beating YK up on a few routes doesn't do much for him. He needs to find his hub. Still could be MKE on some level if he were to grab every available gate.

I have swamp land outside of New Orleans if you want to buy it... He was after 717's. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 40):
He was after 717's. Nothing more, nothing less

This has been repeated often, but has no basis in reality. Why would FL be so gung-ho to get more 717's? Additional 717's bring NOTHING to FL. FL has plenty of 717's and the relatively small fleet they would get from MEH would hardly be worth all the hassle of going through a merger.

FL went after MKE for one reason. They wanted another hub.
 
SpencerII
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 40):
I have swamp land outside of New Orleans if you want to buy it... He was after 717's. Nothing more, nothing less.

NO, hes wasn't just looking for 717's. Building a hub with loyalty is not an easy thing to do. He was looking at a "hub" to create East-West connections, that allready had a substantial customer base.

I do believe Airtran will take a real strong look now at developing some point to point traffic with one stop service out of many markets (the WN philosophy if you will). There are many underserved markets in the NorthWest, West and Midwest lacking "Low Fare" competition. I do beleive the market planning & research team at AirTran has allready planned for the eventuality that if the YX plan did not happen, where and how they place their resources would be in their plan & schedule. I look for some real expansion at AirTran in the coming months, and you can rest assured they don't all involve MKE. Remember FL always has been one to come in a pick up pieces of failures of other carriers and turn them into profitable additons.
 
daus
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RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 40):
He was after 717's. Nothing more, nothing less.

Uh huh..... Is that what TPG is after as well? The vaunted last stash of 717's? NWA invested $200 million to squash AirTran's desire to own (lease) more 717's?

I think I have a good idea of how you came into possession of swamp land....  Smile
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 33):
Midwest's low fares on that route are offset by premium fares they can charge on more business-oriented routes such as LGA.

Having had to travel for business quite frequently in the past, and in a lesser amount today, I would like to find a company that would be willing to pay a premium for me to fly on a niche carrier. Because most businesses are just like individuals - price rules. If you want to take a flight that costs $200 more than another airline, you'd better have a darn good reason for booking it.

Midwest's CASM's are among the highest in the industry. A private equity firm is going to demand a maximum return on investment. They are going to shoot for lowering costs wherever possible, and IMHO, is going to take Midwest straight out of that "niche".
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 39):

The easiest way to accomplish that would be a merger/takeover of F9, who have been having some difficulty as of the last couple of quarters,

It's one thing to go up against the 800 lb gorilla that is DL @ ATL; it's quite another to take on two of them @ DEN. While WN is still building up their ops @ DEN, they're pretty strong. Sure FL competes with them on some routes out BWI, but mainly FL tries to avoid direct conflict with WN as much as possible.

Don't exactly count the plan to acquire YX dead just yet. From:
AirTran Refocuses on Slow Growth

Quote:
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- AirTran Holdings Inc. will refocus on slow expansion around the country after abandoning its bid to buy rival air carrier Midwest Air Group, company officials said Monday.

However, the Orlando-based parent of AirTran Airways did not rule out a later run at Midwest, suggesting federal regulators might not approve its sale to a private investor group that includes Northwest Airlines Corp.
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting MKENut (Reply 27):
Could another airline pursue AirTran for a merger???

Who would buy them? Honest question.

Quoting Crewchief (Reply 28):
Even though they faced significant costs fending off a hostile takeover.

I have heard this statement a few times by the YX cheerleaders, but could someone show me a firm (accurate) number of how much fighting off FL has really cost YX? Because I am willing to bet that FL or not, YX would have posted a Q2 loss. AND let's be very clear that the money YX spent to fight FL was a choice not a necessity. So they choose to spend this huge amount of money to fight FL and post a Q2 loss? If I was a shareholder I would be ticked.

Quoting JBo (Reply 33):
That's how it works ... charge the higher fares on the routes people are willing to pay the money for so you can charge lower fares elsewhere.

I'm not sure you are right. I believe the idea is to start and maintain profitable routes, and if that route is not profitable, you better be pulling it.
 
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mke717spotter
Posts: 1948
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 46):

But the fact is that YX didn't post a Q2 loss...and I believe it was somewhere around 2.8 million dollars this past quarter that YX spent to fight off FL.

[Edited 2007-08-13 22:54:09]
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:54 am

What's the possibility of FL expansion in CLT towards a focus city? US seems to be in dissaray at the moment. How do the CASM and RASM match up between FL and US?
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: Airtran's Future

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 47):
But the fact is that YX didn't post a Q2 loss

Ok so I might be wrong there, I thought they did post a loss. None the less according to Yahoo their YOY Q Earnings Growth was -44%. I am pretty sure most carriers did much better than they did a year ago. Why didn't Midwest? All cause of fighting off FL?

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