kaitak
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BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:37 am

http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/142007118529.htm

Nice timing, with the Climate Camp protestors on the intended site! The BAA is proposing to extend the proposed length of the new third runway to 2500m (about 8,200'), from the originally proposed 2,000m. Of course, the BAA isn't saying anything about it and it could be just propaganda (which is coming from both sides).

2500m would certainly make it more useful for WB aircraft (albeit landing only), although the original plan was for the runway to be used for short haul flights. My big concern about this is that if the runway is lengthened (and I doubt if this will be the last such proposal), the runway intended for SH flights will gradually be taken over by long haul flights and SH flights will be squeezed out. Ideally, the third runway (and associated terminal) would be used for feeder flights, feeding into the LHR hub.
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:10 am

I think BAA would be wise to get 2000m approved first and then consider an extension later depending on operational needs at the time.

BAA should set up a subsidiary corporation to buy up houses anywhere near LHR that people might complain about noise and then let them out to airport and airline employees. It might not be a great profit centre, but if they can buy up enough houses in a village, then they would have the power to severely depress property prices if they were to so choose.

If BAA were to own, say, 20% of the houses in Sipson, they could tell the owners of the remaining 80% "We'll offer you fair market price plus 10% for your house now. We hope you'll take it because we need to buy more houses here for a charity program we're setting up next year. Our charity will help violent ex-felons with their rehabilitation by providing them with low rent housing here in Sipson. We're not sure what effect our charity program will have on property prices in Sipson, but you have 120 days to consider our fair market price plus 10% offer.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
BAA should set up a subsidiary corporation to buy up houses anywhere near LHR that people might complain about noise and then let them out to airport and airline employees. It might not be a great profit centre, but if they can buy up enough houses in a village, then they would have the power to severely depress property prices if they were to so choose.

It would not in any way surprise me if BAA weren't already doing so. They certainly have used this approach at STN, they now own the majority of the houses needed for the 2nd runway there.

With regard to your idea of using their ownership of property to drive down prices, this would most certainly be illegal in the UK.
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
With regard to your idea of using their ownership of property to drive down prices, this would most certainly be illegal in the UK.

Wow, here in Lithuania, developers sometimes just kill people who don't want to sell. Of course, I'm not suggesting that. I'm very curious about the law you mention. How is it worded?
 
kaitak
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
Wow, here in Lithuania, developers sometimes just kill people who don't want to sell. Of course, I'm not suggesting that. I'm very curious about the law you mention. How is it worded?

I don't think it's a matter of quoting a specific piece of legislation as such, but as Bongodog has said, it would certainly be illegal and it's unlikely that you would find any piece of legislation that would permit intimidation to expedite the clearing of land required for development.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
Our charity will help violent ex-felons with their rehabilitation by providing them with low rent housing here in Sipson. We're not sure what effect our charity program will have on property prices in Sipson, but you have 120 days to consider our fair market price plus 10% offer.

LOL!!!! Coffee/keyboard interface moment! Big grin
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
I don't think it's a matter of quoting a specific piece of legislation as such, but as Bongodog has said, it would certainly be illegal and it's unlikely that you would find any piece of legislation that would permit intimidation to expedite the clearing of land required for development.

Are you saying that in the UK everything is illegal which is not specifically permitted by a law?
 
NYC777
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:56 am

When is the 3rd runway supposed to start operations?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
When is the 3rd runway supposed to start operations?

It is only a proposal. BAA are far from receiving permission to build it, so all we can say is that it won't be in operation for at least a decade or so.
 
N1120A
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):

2500m would certainly make it more useful for WB aircraft (albeit landing only)

For a fair few widebodies within a decent range band, it would work for takeoffs too.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):

If BAA were to own, say, 20% of the houses in Sipson, they could tell the owners of the remaining 80% "We'll offer you fair market price plus 10% for your house now. We hope you'll take it because we need to buy more houses here for a charity program we're setting up next year. Our charity will help violent ex-felons with their rehabilitation by providing them with low rent housing here in Sipson. We're not sure what effect our charity program will have on property prices in Sipson, but you have 120 days to consider our fair market price plus 10% offer.

That is called fraud, as well as coercion
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
That is called fraud, as well as coercion

Coercion necessarily involves using force against something. I didn't suggest any use of force. Fraud necessarily involves lying. I didn't suggest any lying.

[Edited 2007-08-14 21:50:40]
 
N1120A
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10):

Coercion necessarily involves using force against something.

Not necessarily physical force.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10):
Fraud necessarily involves lying. I didn't suggest any lying.

Yes you did
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PITrules
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Ideally, the third runway (and associated terminal) would be used for feeder flights, feeding into the LHR hub.

No, ideally a new runway would be used in whatever manner the airlines desire, be it feeder flights or long haul flights. If the airlines desire to add even more long haul at LHR, it would be nice to have a runway to be able to accommodate that.

The BAA should propose an 11,000' runway (knowing it would never be built), so that they can "concede" with the environmental extremists a length back to about 9,000'.

[Edited 2007-08-14 22:02:37]
FLYi
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Not necessarily physical force.

I didn't suggest the use of any sort of force, physical or otherwise.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Yes you did

What are you on about? I most certainly did not suggest that BAA lie to anyone.
 
N1120A
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):

I didn't suggest the use of any sort of force, physical or otherwise.

Oh really? Threatening to house violent felons near families?

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):

What are you on about? I most certainly did not suggest that BAA lie to anyone.

Yes you did. You suggested they set up a sham deal about housing violent felons in order to get people to sell off quickly.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Oh really? Threatening to house violent felons near families?

Threat? No threat. Just honestly informing neighbours of future plans.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
You suggested they set up a sham deal about housing violent felons in order to get people to sell off quickly.

I never suggested any sham. You imagined that out of thin air. BAA should set up a charity in Sipson to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons. And BAA should give the villagers in Sipson a chance to sell at or above pre-existing market prices before the rehabilitation programme begins.
 
AirNZ
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Threat? No threat. Just honestly informing neighbours of future plans



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
I never suggested any sham. You imagined that out of thin air. BAA should set up a charity in Sipson to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons. And BAA should give the villagers in Sipson a chance to sell at or above pre-existing market prices before the rehabilitation programme begins.

So if you stop playing with words for a few minutes perhaps you tell us just why should BAA set up such a charity......they can't even run airports properly?
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zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 16):
So if you stop playing with words for a few minutes perhaps you tell us just why should BAA set up such a charity......they can't even run airports properly?

The objective is to buy up the land that BAA need to expand LHR. If it's not clear how setting up a charity to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons by providing them with low rent housing in Sipson would help achieve that end, then I'm not sure how I can help.

The reason BAA can't run airports well is there is insufficient competition. No one company should be allowed to own two airports within, say, 100km of each other.
 
N1120A
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):

The objective is to buy up the land that BAA need to expand LHR. If it's not clear how setting up a charity to help rehabilitate violent ex-felons by providing them with low rent housing in Sipson would help achieve that end, then I'm not sure how I can help.

Ridiculous.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):

The reason BAA can't run airports well is there is insufficient competition.

No, the reason BAA can't run airports well is because they are a private company that are doing something inherently governmental.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
No one company should be allowed to own two airports within, say, 100km of each other.

Well then. Sounds like a restriction on the market to me.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):

Threat? No threat. Just honestly informing neighbours of future plans.

Threatening plans.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Ridiculous.

Ridicule me all you like.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
BAA can't run airports well is because they are a private company that are doing something inherently governmental.

 rotfl 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Sounds like a restriction on the market to me.

Yes, a few are needed to prevent monopolies.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Threatening plans.

You think it would be better to surprise the neighbours? That doesn't strike me as being very neighbourly. I think it's better to tell them well in advance.
 
AF2323
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:00 am

RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
That is called fraud, as well as coercion

Maybe, but at least it's funny.  smile 
 
N1120A
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 19):

Yes, a few are needed to prevent monopolies.

Monopolies that result of competition are decided by the market. Get over your utopian idea that pure markets are possible, because they aren't.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
zvezda
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RE: BAA To Seek 500m Extension Of Third Runway?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
Get over your utopian idea that pure markets are possible, because they aren't.

There you go again... attributing to me things I didn't write.