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fxramper
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More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:59 am

AA wants the 787. ILFC and Udvar-Hazy will give it to them.

Looking to lease around 25 frames as soon as ILFC takes delivery.

Service to Hawaii, Europe, and Asia would be priority for AA.

Mentioned specifically as destinations were a second city in Germany and Spain.

Does a JFK-HNL n/s route make sense?

I ate dinner with my uncle tonight and he was chatting with a flight standards guy and a fleet manager.

This is purely speculative until we see 787 in AA livery.

 twocents 
 
sstsomeday
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:17 am

While speculative, this scenario makes a lot of sense to me. In the past few years, most American airlines have not had the financial health to place big A/C orders. I would guess that ILFC placed it's large order of 787s with this in mind. I would suspect a number of U.S. majors to probably go this route as a stop-gap measure until they become more financially sound and production slots become available. Even if Boeing has saved some production space for some of their most loyal American customers, I doubt (purely speculative) that there would be the capacity to satisfy all the American airlines that are now far behind in this latest orders spike, once they finally start to order in large numbers.

It is not going to bode well in ten years when American airlines are still flying older-generation, fuel inefficient A/C while they are trying to compete globally with foreign fleets of efficient and more comfortable (internal environment) 787s (and 350s). It seems to me they are already behind in terms of in-flight comfort and amenities, as compared to foreign, global leaders.
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1337Delta764
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:22 am

Not to mention, most of ILFC's 787s will be RR-powered, and RR has been AA's preferred engine supplier since the 757.
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dl767captain
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:53 am

is this speculation or is there some truth behind it, (it definately makes sense, UA AA and DL will have to go to leasing companies for their first rounds of 787's)
 
qqflyboy
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:14 am

I thought, and posted at the time, when ILFC announced their 787s would be equipped with RR engines that AA was likely one motive behind that decision. AA also continues to tell employees it retains certain production rights that allow it to get new a/c, including the 787, with relatively short notice. This was mentioned again in the past two weeks by offical company/employee communique.

We all know it's a matter of when, not if, AA will order the 787. It would not surprise me to see at least one in the fleet by the end of 2009.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
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fxramper
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 5):
AA also continues to tell employees it retains certain production rights that allow it to get new a/c, including the 787, with relatively short notice

This statement is accurate.  yes 
 
MAH4546
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):

Mentioned specifically as destinations were a second city in Germany and Spain.

With the new anti-trust partnership with Iberia, Miami-Barcelona rumours have geared up lately. It would operate at least 5x weekly, year-round. AA/IB are seeing the success that long-haul airlines have seen in the market - Aerolineas Argentinas, Avianca, Continental, and US Airways have started service in the past 18 months and AeroMexico joins them this winter - and they want part of it.

[Edited 2007-08-15 04:26:48]
a.
 
ckfred
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:28 am

I think when AA management feels that there is real progress on the pilots' contract, that is when there will be an announcement, either of an order with Boeing, an announcement of leases with ILFC, or both.
 
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PM
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Not to mention, most of ILFC's 787s will be RR-powered, and RR has been AA's preferred engine supplier since the 757.

That was my first thought when I saw this thread too. ILFC didn't throw RR the greater part of their 787 business (so far) without having a pretty fair idea of where those planes would be going. AA would make perfect sense. As for "preferred engine supplier", I'd surely like to think so (!) but I take nothing for granted. AA have/had a lot of GE DC-10s, MD-11s, A300s and 767s... the GEnx would hardly be an eccentric choice for them (Just the wrong one.  duck  )

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 5):
I thought, and posted at the time, when ILFC announced their 787s would be equipped with RR engines that AA was likely one motive behind that decision.

So we move a step closer to an eventual AA 787 fleet of, what, 100-200?
 
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fxramper
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
pilots' contract,

Discussed this tonight as well. It's not amendable until 2008. They asked for 31.5%? They are hoping to get back what they lost in 2003 which was 23%.
 
zululima
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:15 pm

Well then, what are the Vegas odd of my seeing AA 787s at DFW by the end of '09? Consensus seems to be that AA will definitely buy/lease...I don't see how they couldn't. Harder to pin down EIS for American. Equipping 763ERs with winglets starting next year has me confused. Will they be in service long enough to recoup installation costs with fuel savings before 787s send them packing? Or is it a solid investment either way with resale value?
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MAH4546
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 11):
. Equipping 763ERs with winglets starting next year has me confused. Will they be in service long enough to recoup installation costs with fuel savings before 787s send them packing?

The 763s aren't going anywhere anytime soon. 787s would join them, not replace them.
a.
 
777STL
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:25 pm

Everything seems plausible here but I'll believe it when it actually happens. How many times have we had someone come on here claiming they have inside info because someone's cousin's brother's uncle's mom talked to someone who mops the floors at AA corporate headquarters who told them fourth-hand that a 787 order is imminent?

It's definitely a matter of when not if, but I would think AA would be focus fleet planning on the MD80 replacement. That would seem to be the priority to me. Not to say they couldn't be doing both concurrently but....
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:27 pm

Adding my 2 cents worth here...AA has a few options concerning the 787. One, they can lease the 787 from ILFC...two, buy their delivery slots if AA needs the 787 much sooner than later...and three, have Boeing honor the "handshake" agreement & order their own 787s & get a cut in the delivery line before most of the other 787 customers. If AA orders the 787 soon using any one of the above scenarios, they'll need at least 24 airframes firm, and maybe another dozen more.
I can't picture American having 100 787s at the most tho. Also, I really believe AA's 787s will be equipped with RR engines, as their 777s are. The 783 is ideal for the Caribbean?latin American routes, while the 788 is good for Trans Atlantic & Europe and possibly future Pacific & Asia route.
Again, all theories on my part here. We'll know in the near future, perhaps before year's end what American has planned.
Regards.
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MAH4546
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:28 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 13):
It's definitely a matter of when not if, but I would think AA would be focus fleet planning on the MD80 replacement. That would seem to be the priority to me. Not to say they couldn't be doing both concurrently but...

What do you think the recent 738 order was for? The next priority for AA's fleet will be A300 replacement and long-haul expansion, which will probably come in the form of 787-3s and 787-9s, respectively.
a.
 
777STL
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
What do you think the recent 738 order was for? The next priority for AA's fleet will be A300 replacement and long-haul expansion, which will probably come in the form of 787-3s and 787-9s, respectively.

That wasn't an order, that was an acceleration of a previous order. And no, I don't think 47 additional 738s are a replacement for the 300 sum odd aircraft in the MD80 fleet.
PHX based
 
AA767400
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 16):
That wasn't an order, that was an acceleration of a previous order. And no, I don't think 47 additional 738s are a replacement for the 300 sum odd aircraft in the MD80 fleet.

It still helps to accelerate their replacement. Rome was not built in one day, and 300 M80s will not be that easy to replace.
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siromega
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:02 pm

What if AA both buys some 787s and leases more from ILFC? Say, 25 each to start with? With more options and purchase rights.

The main thing I see is if the economy bails or oil goes up (or both) and air travel slumps, AA isnt left with 50 787s to fill. They can return 25 (and ILFC can place them with someone becuase of such high demand for the 787) and then they can use the 25 they own to replace 767s.
 
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fxramper
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 18):
What if AA both buys some 787s and leases more from ILFC?

A definite plausible scenario.

 twocents 
 
MAH4546
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 16):

That wasn't an order, that was an acceleration of a previous order. And no, I don't think 47 additional 738s are a replacement for the 300 sum odd aircraft in the MD80 fleet.

It doesn't matter that it was an acceleration of a previous order. It is to replace the oldest S80s in AA's fleet. Now the priority is going to shift to other things. AA has MD80s that were built in 1999! They are in no rush to replace all 300.
a.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:11 pm

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 5):
AA also continues to tell employees it retains certain production rights that allow it to get new a/c, including the 787, with relatively short notice.



Quoting FXramper (Reply 6):
This statement is accurate.

Are these production rights otherwise known as "options," which cost money? And if so, why don't we know about them?

Or, does AA and possibly other airlines, supposedly big, loyal Boeing customers, have private agreements to get in on production slots on short notice that are not publicly advertised? (Was that referred to in this thread as a "hand shake agreement")

I've heard that it would be easier to ramp up production of the 787 (as opposed to other current widebodies) at some point, even without another production line, since the A/C is unprecedentedly out-sourced. Is that where perhaps Boeing will come up with some surprise slots, perhaps?

It will be interesting to watch where the big U.S. airlines will get all their next generation lift once they start to order. ILFC wouldn't have enough A/C to satisfy the all the demand, would they?

For these reasons I think we will see 767s, 757s, 330s flying passenger service well into the future. Look at the resurgence of the 330 due largely to the 350 (and 380) delays.

There has been a trend recently to retire some A/C earlier than what would typically be expected (some 320s, for example), but I have a feeling that that trend will reverse in the foreseeable future because American airlines have delayed getting in on this order cycle. I wonder if we will see some stored A/C coming out of the desert, for conversion to freighters, because the current generation wide-body twins are being kept in passenger service?

I realize that there seems to have been a surge in new-build freighters, rather than conversions, but since there is going to be a squeeze on the supply once American airlines start ordering, perhaps new-build freighters are going to become too pricey?

(Please - forgive this "stream of consciousness" post...  blush  )
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tdscanuck
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 20):
Are these production rights otherwise known as "options," which cost money? And if so, why don't we know about them?

They're not options. I think the poster was talking about the infamous "handshake agreement" between Boeing and some of the US legacy carriers.

It's important to realize that when Boeing says "the line is sold out" they mean, "If you want to start a new deal with us now, don't expect an airplane before 2014 (or whatever the number currently is)". That's not the same thing as "we have an identified customer for every line position between now and 2014."

It's almost inevitable that at least one of the US legacy carriers will order some 787's in the next year or two. I strongly suspect that Boeing has blocked off spots in the production line for that, even though they don't have the order yet. So the may really be sold out (no more capacity that Boeing is willing to sell) but slots may be available to the right customers.

Tom.
 
Norcal773
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 3):
is this speculation or is there some truth behind it, (it



Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
This is purely speculative until we see 787 in AA livery.

Duuh! The thread starter said it was speculation.
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dl767captain
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 21):
It's important to realize that when Boeing says "the line is sold out" they mean, "If you want to start a new deal with us now, don't expect an airplane before 2014 (or whatever the number currently is)". That's not the same thing as "we have an identified customer for every line position between now and 2014."

Is there any chance that while DL was in CH. 11 they held talks with Boeing asking them to secretly hold some earlier delivery slots and sign an intention to buy when out of CH. 11? DL is a pretty good customer and i'm sure Boeing would set a few aside form them.
 
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fxramper
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 22):
Duuh! The thread starter said it was speculation.

Thanks for clarifying for the thread!  bouncy 

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 21):
They're not options.

I've heard more than once that AMR has moved money to Boeing some time ago.

 twocents 
 
sstsomeday
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 21):
It's important to realize that when Boeing says "the line is sold out" they mean, "If you want to start a new deal with us now, don't expect an airplane before 2014 (or whatever the number currently is)". That's not the same thing as "we have an identified customer for every line position between now and 2014."

Interesting. So when they SAY the line is sold out, it's actually not, but they are saving spaces for preferred customers who would potentially be making very large orders.

I would assume this also protects Boeing, If they were to clog their order book with a lot of small orders, taking any order they could get, it would disallow them from accepting a very large order at a later time.

This seems rather like how airlines will only sell a certain number of advance purchase tickets at the lowest fare class. They are saving open seats for higher yield passengers.
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tdscanuck
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 23):
Is there any chance that while DL was in CH. 11 they held talks with Boeing asking them to secretly hold some earlier delivery slots and sign an intention to buy when out of CH. 11? DL is a pretty good customer and i'm sure Boeing would set a few aside form them.

It's certainly possible, although I have no idea how one would go about proving it. What I suspect is more likely is that Boeing looked at the recovery plans of the US legacy carriers and said "We don't know who's going to do what when, but somebody in here is going to order 787's and it would make sense for use to factor that into the production plan."

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 25):
So when they SAY the line is sold out, it's actually not, but they are saving spaces for preferred customers who would potentially be making very large orders.

If someone tells you something is sold out, that means there are no units available for you to buy. That's true in this case. You can't buy them because Boeing is holding them for someone else. What's probably not true is that Boeing doesn't know who's going to get which airplane in the whole production plan...they know they're "sold", just not not who's going to get them.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 25):
This seems rather like how airlines will only sell a certain number of advance purchase tickets at the lowest fare class.

I suspect that's how they think of it too.

Tom.
 
MIT787
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 23):
Is there any chance that while DL was in CH. 11 they held talks with Boeing asking them to secretly hold some earlier delivery slots and sign an intention to buy when out of CH. 11? DL is a pretty good customer and i'm sure Boeing would set a few aside form them.

Excuse me for not knowing the correct words or having a background in business, but with Boeing being DL's largest debt, Boeing was "chair of DL's bankruptcy committee". Meaning that Boeing single- handedly could approve or deny any move from DL to exit bankruptcy. This is also the only reason US was not successful in taking over DL. Also, I am sure the two companies did talk about airplane purchases, but they did not have to have "secret talks", to imply that there was some law being broken. Remember, Airbus was in the same position when US was in bankruptcy, and it is public knowledge that Airbus approved that merger and forgave a lot of US' debt in exchange for a large A350 purchase.
 
bmacleod
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:17 am

So apparently AA has some dough to lease 787s but not to buy?

Wonder if UA will end up leasing 787s in the short term. It also makes me wonder where NW found the cash to buy 787s while still in Chap11?
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
Carls
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:21 am

In Aviation News were saying that AA was in conversation with Airbus for some A330 as an interim solution until they get a financial and viable option to place a 123 B788/9.
Since this thread it is base on speculations I am posting mine too.  Sad
 
Norcal773
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 29):
In Aviation News were saying that AA was in conversation with Airbus for some A330 as an interim solution until they get a financial and viable option to place a 123 B788/9.
Since this thread it is base on speculations I am posting mine too.

..and I am gonna marry Giselle Budchen this weekend! Will believe that when it happens.
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b752fanatic
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 29):

Based on the charming and wonderful relations that AA has with Airbus, this is highly probable!  Smile
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
bobnwa
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 28):
Wonder if UA will end up leasing 787s in the short term. It also makes me wonder where NW found the cash to buy 787s while still in Chap11?

Northwest was in bankruptcy when it ordered the 787 in May 2005. Northwest went into Chapter 11 in September 2005.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:29 am

I think it would be cool to see some A330-200/300s in AA's livery.  Wink And fly them with PW engines too.
Seriously now, it's probably a scare tactic to get Boeing to get American the 787 sooner than later.
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
DAYflyer
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:38 am

I'm going to go way out on a limb and say not only the 787 will be leased from ILFC, but also some 738 and 739 as well to replace the mad dogs. AA simply cant afford 300 replacement aircraft, so look for a leased replacement.
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Carls
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 33):
I think it would be cool to see some A330-200/300s in AA's livery. And fly them with PW engines too.
Seriously now, it's probably a scare tactic to get Boeing to get American the 787 sooner than later.
Regards.

Could be, but the A330 fit perfectly in AA fleet. I know it will be difficult, but if they want to get rid of the old B767, then they could easily use the A-330 as an interim lift solution. Airbus will be more than happy to give them an early slot and this will put a hell of the pressure on Boeing. With the A-330 they will have more payload, more passengers capacity, better ranges, so why not, and besides that Airbus will offer them a very "juicy" price. Then AA can place the order for the B788/9 and wait.
Make sense?  Wink  Wink  Wink
 
bobnwa
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 32):
Northwest was in bankruptcy when it ordered the 787 in May 2005. Northwest went into Chapter 11 in September 2005.

Please change to NOT in bankruptcy in the first sentence. Small brain fart.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Quoting 777STL (Reply 13):
It's definitely a matter of when not if, but I would think AA would be focus fleet planning on the MD80 replacement. That would seem to be the priority to me. Not to say they couldn't be doing both concurrently but...

What do you think the recent 738 order was for? The next priority for AA's fleet will be A300 replacement and long-haul expansion, which will probably come in the form of 787-3s and 787-9s, respectively.

AA would be making a mistake to replace all of their MD-80s with old-technology 737s now, when they can wait a few years and be one of the first customers for whatever aircraft replaces the 737.

I also feel AA is delaying an MD-80 replacement decision until after the pilots' contract is resolved. It would solve a lot of problems for AA if at least some of the MD-80s can be replaced by Embraer 190s, flown by AA Eagle pilots, although it will be VERY hard to get APA to agree to this!
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
2953
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:49 am

All fine and dandy, but however will they get them in silver?

I'm an AA-brat (Pop was an exec with the company for 30+ years) and I can't tell you how much I HATED those poxie A300s when they were painted gray. Hmmm, wonder if a .05mil sheet of mylar could be placed in between the fiber ad the outer matrix...
 
zululima
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 29):
In Aviation News were saying that AA was in conversation with Airbus for some A330 as an interim solution until they get a financial and viable option to place a 123 B788/9.

If they really wanted a whole new type in the fleet (that has almost no similarities to current models, including A300), which they don't, then I'm sure they would lease these as an "interim solution". No need to wait for a slot of a back-ordered a/c and pay full price. 767s work fine for now, and with winglets, expect to see the -300ERs for at least another decade.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
Carls
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 39):
If they really wanted a whole new type in the fleet (that has almost no similarities to current models, including A300), which they don't, then I'm sure they would lease these as an "interim solution". No need to wait for a slot of a back-ordered a/c and pay full price. 767s work fine for now, and with winglets, expect to see the -300ERs for at least another decade.

Well I think that if TG, EK, VS and all the A345/6 are desperate to get rid of those buses because the fuel consumption as many A.net memebers have said, then AA and many other should be desperate to get rid of those B767, A300 and B757 ang go for a more efficient AC. And you are right, what Aviation New said was just a rumor, so could be that AA is looking for some A330 leased insted of buy.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:42 pm

Quoting MIT787 (Reply 27):
Boeing was "chair of DL's bankruptcy committee". Meaning that Boeing single- handedly could approve or deny any move from DL to exit bankruptcy.

Really? I always figured it was majority vote of the bankruptcy commitee.

Tom.
 
azhobo
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting Carls (Reply 35):
With the A-330 they will have more payload, more passengers capacity, better ranges, so why not, and besides that Airbus will offer them a very "juicy" price.

Didnt airbus say they were going to stop giving away aircraft?
 
azhobo
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RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:07 pm

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...ugust298.xml§ion=business&col=

"The Saudi Arabian Airlines is currently in discussions with American aircraft manufacturer Boeing for the purchase of its latest aircraft the Boeing Dreamliner 787, according to Ahmed Jazzar, Boeing Saudi Arabia President."

I like the fiber optics fuselage comment. at least they new the a380 was larger than the 787.

"
"So far four Arab airlines have purchased the new aircraft and we are in discussions with Saudi Arabian Airlines," Jazzar informed a Press conference in Riyadh recently.

Three of the Arab airlines have been named as Qatar Airways, Royal Jordanian and Etihad."

Etihad?

HOBO
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:23 pm

What chance is there that AA might order some 787-3s? Remember that AA operations at ORD are capped by the FAA. When the 3rd east-west runway opens next year, operations will increase some. I've seen speculation that AA would get slightly under 50 more arrival slots. The additional runway will be utilized to reduce delays during bad weather.

However, opeations won't really start growing until the 4th east-west runway opens, and there is no estimated date of service.

So, wouldn't it make sense for AA to get 787-3s to take over some of the flying to the West Coast, so that the MD-80s can fly other routes? Right now, AA runs 2 MD-80s on LAX-ORD redeyes, departing at about 11:20 and 11:50. It would make sense to have one 787 departing at 11:45, freeing up the MD-80s.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:37 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 43):
Etihad?

Probably meant KU...which has leased them...
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 44):
What chance is there that AA might order some 787-3s?

Chances are probably very high, but for high density short/medium-haul routes out of Miami. The chances are pretty close to zero for them to buy them for use on ORD-West Coast. It isn't nessecary. Even with constraints in O'Hare, AA doesn't need to dump capacity on the market and erode their yields.
a.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 46):
Even with constraints in O'Hare, AA doesn't need to dump capacity on the market and erode their yields.

My wife flies AA a lot out of ORD, and a friend of mine is a 757/767 F/O based out of ORD. They have been seeing full airplanes, very long stand-by lists, and a lot of requests for volunteers. Last summer, my wife was on several flights that were cancelled, and AA could never get her on a flight that same day. My friend has noticed that this summer, when a flight is cancelled or delayed by several hours, it's often taking 2 or even 3 days to get every passengers to his or her final destination.

I'm not suggesting that AA goes back to the early 90s when everything to SEA, SFO, SJC, LAX, SAN, PHX, and LAS out of ORD was either a 767 or a DC-10. On the other hand, it seems that if some of the West Coast routes saw 1 or 2 787s, either as additional flights when the operations cap is raised or as a substitution for a 757 or MD-80, it would allow AA to implement a small increase in capacity without sacrificing yields.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 47):
My wife flies AA a lot out of ORD, and a friend of mine is a 757/767 F/O based out of ORD. They have been seeing full airplanes, very long stand-by lists, and a lot of requests for volunteers.

I was flying AA out of O'Hare for four years at least 4 times a month, mainly to Miami, LaGuardia, and LAX, and believe me, I know. I never had an empty flight, especially on the Miami route (which averages a 90%+ LF year-round). However, I don't think investing in 787-3s for domestic flying from Chicago is a smart idea. They don't need it. The routes are not that dense. Also, AA has always been one to purposely limit capacity on routes in order, largely, to keep yields up.
a.
 
sstsomeday
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: More 787 Rumors: AA And ILFC.

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 37):
AA would be making a mistake to replace all of their MD-80s with old-technology 737s now, when they can wait a few years and be one of the first customers for whatever aircraft replaces the 737.

I disagree. That airplane, which doesn't exist even in theory, is logically up to 15 years away from EIS, isn't it? The MD-80 variants would be REALLY old by then. Conversely, next-generation 737s, while derivatives of on old platform, are so reworked that they are selling like hotcakes and giving the newer 320 a run for its money. Are current sales and production not roughly even?

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 47):
My wife flies AA a lot out of ORD, and a friend of mine is a 757/767 F/O based out of ORD. They have been seeing full airplanes, very long stand-by lists, and a lot of requests for volunteers. Last summer, my wife was on several flights that were cancelled, and AA could never get her on a flight that same day. My friend has noticed that this summer, when a flight is cancelled or delayed by several hours, it's often taking 2 or even 3 days to get every passengers to his or her final destination.

I think this capacity crunch is intentional. Airlines margins are thinner so the WANT to fly every seat occupied in the best of times. That is why they have such difficulty accommodating passengers in a reasonable amount of time when there is a MX delay, or worse, weather. Everybody is already full. That's what exacerbated England's return to normalcy after their prolonged weather problems in July. There is very little additional capacity to accommodate cancelled passengers
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