EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:35 am

Just as we started to miss the entertaining blogs from Mr Basler, his successor has come up with an absolute cracker!

http://boeingblogs.com/randy/

According to the new Randy, the fact that the A380 is so quiet is a bad thing if you are a passenger, because its harder to sleep.

Quote:
You may recall media reports earlier this year making a lot of noise about how quiet it was aboard the A380.

In stories about the A380 passenger experience, we read that even seated by a window, you could hear conversations on the other side of the airplane, or even several rows away. In some reports, when passengers mentioned that this might be a bit disconcerting, they were told that one might have to “get used to” eavesdropping on an airplane.

So, I wonder if this also means that we’ll hear crying babies many rows further away than on today’s airplanes? Or sounds from the galleys?

I don’t know about you, but my personal experience is that if you can’t sleep because you can hear lots of conversations, or other sounds, you’re going to be more fatigued when you arrive.

This is a bit of an odd thing to say, since I assumed that the 787 would be equally as quiet. Or will it?
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3954
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
This is a bit of an odd thing to say, since I assumed that the 787 would be equally as quiet. Or will it?

It sounds like that on the inside it won't be - but that's not a bad thing.

His points are completely valid - I wouldn't want to hear conversations from across the plane, nor do I want to sit in J and hear screaming babies in Y (or F!  Smile)

It's good to have that background "aircraft" noise the whole time, because without it it would sound like a crowded hall on market day with lots of people chatting and so on. He has a great point!

Finally some fire from Randy T!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:44 am

Airbus has Leahy, Boeing has Basler and Aboulafia. But they together come close to Leahy
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:46 am

Not sure who this guy is, but I think he has ordered too many drinks himself. As a pax his comments are stupid and child like. Obviously he has decided to take a swipe at the 380, so what about smelly people, lines for the bathroom, lines to get on. No, lets go for being able to hear yourself speak on an aeroplane!!!! If you are one of those people who cannot sleep due to excessive aeroplane noise fly the 380, stay off our products we build them with noise.

Good sell job for the opposition stupid!!!!
 
baron95
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:19 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:48 am

From the Blog... "You’d probably agree that the most disturbing background noises are the random ones - talking, coughing, lavatory doors closing. How disturbed you are during a flight is a function of the degree to which the random noises rise above the background noise.

We think the difference between “perceived” quiet on different jetliners is due to the balance of background - or white noise - and ambient noise."

I think he is correct in that you want some white noise in an airplane. But what is his point? It is not something that gives Boeing an advantage. Is he implying that the A380 crossed the threshold of "too quiet"? I doubt that. Is he trying to make excuses ahead of time as to why the 787 will be noisier? Perhaps. Maybe that cabin sidewall redesign to allow 9Y did have a drawback after all.

All in all, I find it wierd that he chose to write about that. It is not an area of competitive advantage to Boeing. Unless he is trying to preempt the 787 being noisier issue.

Really wierd.
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
Lokey123
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:59 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:49 am

That is a load if I ever heard one. The same way you can wear Bose headsets or earplugs to drown out engine noise is the same way you can use them to get rid of the crying baby or chatter. It makes it easier to sleep and is so much less annoying when the cabin is quiet.
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:50 am

So if the A380 is "too" quiet, A can just install white noise generators.
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
According to the new Randy, the fact that the A380 is so quiet is a bad thing if you are a passenger, because its harder to sleep

As we must assume that the new Randy is a clever guy, obviously he didn't mean that quiet engines are bad, but that given the fact that the A380 with newer engines are much quieter referred to the B744, it is necessary to give more attention to the internal acoustic characteristics of the cabin. We all know how disturbing it is to be exposed to brainy conversations or snickering of guys/ladies behind you seat !!  Smile

And I must assume that even more new aircraft as the B787, A350 and B748i (engine-wise) will be still quieter and possibly Randy is hinting that Boeing is taking care of this. He does it in a manner usual in the aircraft environment. Not to say anything clearly !! Big grin

TKV
 
airtran737
Posts: 3222
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 2):
Airbus has Leahy, Boeing has Basler and Aboulafia. But they together come close to Leahy

Bassler has retired, this is a new Randy.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
sphealey
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 12:39 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:54 am

> His points are completely valid

HIs observations are no doubt valid, but I would have to question his conclusion a bit. If you start with a quiet environment you can pipe in controlled levels of white noise, but if you start with a noisier environment it is going to be very hard if not impossible to take it out. So I would prefer that the raw design be as quiet as possible and the engineers include a white noise system (perhaps with an active frequency profile based on noise canceling technology).

sPh
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3954
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Lokey123 (Reply 5):
The same way you can wear Bose headsets or earplugs to drown out engine noise is the same way you can use them to get rid of the crying baby or chatter

Yeah sure, I always have a comfortable sleep with cans on the side of my head. Riiiiight...
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
gbfra
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:50 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:55 am

Has Randy ever flown on an A380?
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
His points are completely valid - I wouldn't want to hear conversations from across the plane, nor do I want to sit in J and hear screaming babies in Y (or F! )

It's good to have that background "aircraft" noise the whole time, because without it it would sound like a crowded hall on market day with lots of people chatting and so on. He has a great point!

Finally some fire from Randy T!

You are kidding right. All aeroplanes have noise, there is no way to stop air flowing over a mass at 500mph. So the 380 is going to be quieter, less engine whine I would guess. What do aeroplanes sound like now, crowded halls with more supporting background noise. Instead of people shouting to be heard because of the background noise, they will be keeping their voices down.

Randy to Pax: "On this 14 hour flight, would you like a quieter environment or something noisier".
Pax to Friend: "Got this wierdo asking stupid questions, what should I do"
Friend to Pax: "Tell him what he wants to hear, then he will go away"!!
 
JTR
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:45 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:58 am

I never notice engine noise, except when I set in the rear of an AA MD80 or FL 717. I couldn't tell the difference between a BA 777 and an LH A340 when I was flying them trans-Atlantic. As a passenger, I want to hear engine noise - after all, you're in a metal (soon to be plastic) tube hurtling through the air at ~.8 mach. Something about hearing the engines turning reassures me.

This being said, I think this is the least inspired post I've seen on that blog.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23201
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:03 am

I do agree his general text is a reach, and probably would have been better left unsaid since it comes across as just carping for the sake of carping.

However, I do think some light "white noise" like the engines and such might very well help some folks sleep - just like the sound of falling rain can be soothing.
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 2):
Airbus has Leahy, Boeing has Basler and Aboulafia. But they together come close to Leahy

Now it is Tinseth ! We know still very little about the new Randy, but of course, he is a newborn baby related to Leahy !!

I do not know if you can qualify Aboulafia as Boeing's own, if so, they would be well advised to look for somebody else. I never saw a case where a guy manages to get named in the press issuing absolute platitudes:

If a Kangoroo is seen hopping along 5th avenue on plain view of half NY, the press (not Boeing!) include a
standard phrase in their articles regarding aviation:

"Says Richard Aboulafia, .... of TEAL...: A Kangoroo hopped along 5th. Avenue !!! " Big grin Big grin

TKV
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2788
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
It's good to have that background "aircraft" noise the whole time, because without it it would sound like a crowded hall on market day with lots of people chatting and so on. He has a great point!

I agree, no way could I sleep on a plane at the gate with the engines off! In the air, no problem. Same reason I can sleep so well during a rain shower. The background noise lulls you to sleep and blocks out most random noises.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
baron95
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:19 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
However, I do think some light "white noise" like the engines and such might very well help some folks sleep

This is a complex issue. On a long daylight flight or at any time you don't want to sleep, relatively loud background white noise can be very fatiguing compared to the occasional cough, dropped tray, child crying.

If you are trying to sleep, a level of background white noise that makes the occasional loud noise less "jarring/startling" is best.

However, it is ALWAYS TRUE that if you start with a quieter cabin you have more options on the sound treatment.

On a quieter cabin, you can introduce background white/mood noise (brooks, birds, leaves in the wind, etc) and adjust the level dynamically to mach the loudest exbected "people noise". So, if everyone is quiet, injected background noise is minimal. If losts of people are talking or a baby is crying, you can bump background noise (perhaps on that section of the cabin) accordingly. You can also inject noise cancelling signals for any noise that goes above some value (say 80db).

If you have a noisy cabin to begin with, your options are severelly limited.

Randy sounds like a fool - implying that a quiet airframe is a bad thing.
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:44 am

Wait - who is actually making the reports?

"In stories about the A380 passenger experience, we read that even seated by a window, you could hear conversations on the other side of the airplane, or even several rows away. In some reports, when passengers mentioned that this might be a bit disconcerting, they were told that one might have to �get used to� eavesdropping on an airplane."

So, Randy is not the one who is saying it is so quiet one can hear conversations on the other side of the airplane - passengers who have flown the A380 are, and they would know - they're the ones who have actually flown on it - and they're the ones that reported the quiet disturbing, not Randy.

So why are people here bashing Randy for what passengers who have actually flown on the A380 have complained about???

I can just imagine - the airlines will provide ear plugs for free, or for a small fee you can "rent" noise-canceling headphones. Or you can just bring your own ear muffs.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:58 am

The simplest of all solutions for all airplanes: Noise cancelling headphones.
One Nation Under God
 
azhobo
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:05 am

Heaven help us if they ever allow them cell phones to be turned on in air. That would make flying VERY annoying.

HOBO
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 19):
The simplest of all solutions for all airplanes: Noise cancelling headphones.

Ear plugs would be simplest. Thick with irony, but simplest nonetheless.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5450
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
However, I do think some light "white noise" like the engines and such might very well help some folks sleep - just like the sound of falling rain can be soothing.

It certainly helps me sleep; an airplane is one of the few places where I can actually sleep sitting up.
 
gbfra
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:50 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 18):
So, Randy is not the one who is saying it is so quiet one can hear conversations on the other side of the airplane - passengers who have flown the A380 are, and they would know - they're the ones who have actually flown on it - and they're the ones that reported the quiet disturbing, not Randy.

So why are people here bashing Randy for what passengers who have actually flown on the A380 have complained about???

How many people did actually complain?

I have flown on the A380. It is in fact a very quiet airplane (something some - mostly American - a.netters didn't want to believe at the time. One was even thinking that I had listened to Hard Rock before entering the plane so that I was more or less deaf during the flight.)

But even if it is quiet one shouldn't exaggerate. I was sitting behind John Leahy in B-class and I could not overhear his conversation with his neighbour.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
starrion
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:52 am

This seems like a stunning non-issue.

Randy should not have brought this up. Frankly bringing up minor issues about the A380 at a time when people are hanging on for every word about 787 news is a really bad idea.

If the A380 is that quiet- great.

What is going on with the 787??!!
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
wcs
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:57 am

How do you could even buy this? That’s just ridiculous! This guy says that quieter is not better? May I suggest him to amend this quote, from his company's website:

Today's jetliners are dramatically quieter than their predecessors. But the next generation—beginning with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner—will be significantly quieter.

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers...archive/2005/december/ts_sf07.html

Cheap shot, for sure ...
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
This is a bit of an odd thing to say, since I assumed that the 787 would be equally as quiet. Or will it?

I guess not. They must be planning it to sound like an A319 or a 737-200 just after takeoff.  Wink
 
azhobo
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:19 am

"For instance, even though the Airbus A340 has lower sound pressure levels, the Boeing 777 rates “quieter” in studies. So what’s going on? "

I think his point is this. Quiet is a passenger perception not something you can acoustically measure.

Whatever, I am sure boeing will get it right and Airbus has it all wrong.  Big grin

HOBO
 
gbfra
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:50 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 27):
I think his point is this. Quiet is a passenger perception not something you can acoustically measure.

You can acoustically measure this of course.

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 27):
Whatever, I am sure boeing will get it right and Airbus has it all wrong.

Right. Undoubtedly, Randy will praise the quietness of the B787.  Silly

(After they had to admit a delay of the project.  boxedin  )
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
blackknight
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:40 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:37 am

I think everyone has missed the point here. In the usual quick to judge method here on A.net. I believe the point has been missed.

First and foremost each of us has to place ourselves in his shoes. What is he thinking and what information is he privileged to?

1- Sales negotiation information. (Example:Maybe EK is wanting a more A380 like 747-8i cabin if and when they purchase a few.)
2- Maybe the 787 has some new technology that is to late to be applied on the first few hundred A380's. (Example: mood sounds such as running water, the ocean, birds, the jungle, etc.)
3- Even if the 747-8i does not come close to the 787 in noise avoidance it is vastly improved and could include these new technologies.
4- With the available supply of electricity more solutions are available.
5- Maybe he wants a reply from Airbus on a bate and switch routine to aid in a sale?

The assumption this article as not been proof read many times prior to its posting is ridiculous. Those whom question his intelligence show the lack of theirs. He is new to this job and will be watched by not only legal but upper management.. This post is not for the common bench warmers here.
BK
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23201
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 18):
So why are people here bashing Randy for what passengers who have actually flown on the A380 have complained about?

Because he's a marketer and we hate marketers.  Smile
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting BlackKnight (Reply 29):
think everyone has missed the point here. In the usual quick to judge method here on A.net. I believe the point has been missed.

Please refer to my reply 7.

TKV
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:00 am

If one wants to minimize hearing conversations, screaming babies, etc., then one should stick to narrow-bodies. The wider an airliner, the more seats there are within a given radius.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13771
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
This is a bit of an odd thing to say, since I assumed that the 787 would be equally as quiet. Or will it?

No, it won't, by design. They in fact removed insulation to make the walls thinner because it would have made the jet quieter than it needed to be, and quieter than they want it to be... inside. Instead of making the plane quieter than they wanted, they made the cabin wider and the plane lighter.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 4):
From the Blog... "You’d probably agree that the most disturbing background noises are the random ones - talking, coughing, lavatory doors closing. How disturbed you are during a flight is a function of the degree to which the random noises rise above the background noise.

You see, I've been saying this ever since I heard that the A380 allowed you to hear your neighbor WHISPER. That bragging by Airbus and those who flew on the test flights left me feeling like they shouldn't be so braggy, as I wouldn't like that. Mainly because while it might allow people to whisper, people won't whisper! They'll still talk LOUDLY if they are loud people, and we will have to all hear that, all over the plane.

Today's modern widebody is not "loud" inside compared to a restaurant or even a city park (in some cities), and I just flew an AA 762 yesterday, 20+ years old, and I could hold a normal conversation with my seat mate for hours. But I couldn't hear the people in seats A and B, and I'm happy for that.

I am not thrilled about the idea of hearing the snoring from 6 rows away, or the F/As chatting it up in the galley about their layover adventure, or the noises of someone in the lav who didn't like the chicken.

In fact, I like the noise of an AC unit in a motel to drown out the strange noises from the surroundings, so I sleep better. I'm not alone in this.

I did some internet searching, and found various studies that back up the negative effects of "intermittent noise" when compared to "no noise" and "continuous noise."

A public environment where you can hear random things is the most distracting. People had trouble reading, taking tests. But if the environment had a louder but consistent background noise, the effects were reduced.

But of course for some people, if Boeing says it, it must be the "stupidest thing they ever heard of."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:10 am

People will talk and babys will cry. A noisy cabin never stopped this, it just caused people to talk louder so that they can hear each other, thus increasing the overall noise level further.

Randy might as well be telling us that the less beer we drink on a flight, the more drunk we will get!
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 34):
People will talk and babys will cry. A noisy cabin never stopped this, it just caused people to talk louder so that they can hear each other, thus increasing the overall noise level further

Unfortunately, there is people who never learned to speak in low tone. And this happens especially after a few beers !  Smile

TKV
 
gbfra
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:50 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
did some internet searching, and found various studies that back up the negative effects of "intermittent noise" when compared to "no noise" and "continuous noise."

A public environment where you can hear random things is the most distracting. People had trouble reading, taking tests. But if the environment had a louder but consistent background noise, the effects were reduced.

But of course for some people, if Boeing says it, it must be the "stupidest thing they ever heard of."

Oh yes.

According to your logic Boeing's next marketing campaign should be:

"Buy our aircraft because they are noisier than the aircraft of our competitor. Studies have shown that passengers prefer noise to quietness."
 laughing   laughing 
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2788
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 34):
People will talk and babys will cry. A noisy cabin never stopped this, it just caused people to talk louder so that they can hear each other, thus increasing the overall noise level further.

Not exactly, sound doesn't work quite like that. Background noise effectively drowns out other noise of the same dblevel or lower, but people close to you are not affected nearly as much as those further away. Remove the background noise and people at the other end of the tube hear every word when you speak at the same db level as before.

This is why white noise is so effective in an office environment, and the engines act as pretty good white noise generators

I dont recall ever having to raise my voce to my seatmate or a FA even at the back of a DC9.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
ScottB
Posts: 5450
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting WCS (Reply 25):
How do you could even buy this? That’s just ridiculous! This guy says that quieter is not better? May I suggest him to amend this quote, from his company's website:

Today's jetliners are dramatically quieter than their predecessors. But the next generation—beginning with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner—will be significantly quieter.

Interesting choice given that the article mentions cabin noise but predominantly addresses reducing noise impacts on communities instead.
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:47 am

People at Airbus and those on board said the 380 is sooooo quiet, good marketing ploy. So Boeing reply is that passengers want it noisy. This the whole crux to this blog. He talks about the 340 being quieter than the 777, but passengers perception is the other way. Sorry, flown 342/343 and 345, it is much quieter than a 777 (GE/PW/RR, 772/773/773ER) internally, but it is not can hear pin drop quiet. Nothing I have flown is empty hall quiet, unless Airbus have come up with something remarkable.

So I am sorry for all those noise technocrats out there, this is just another A V B we are being sucked into. We all know that Airbus will reply with their own bull$hit survey on noise next, and so the circle of life continues.
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 18):
Wait - who is actually making the reports?

There is at lease one trip report of the A380 on this site. I suggest reading it.
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 23):
How many people did actually complain?

I have flown on the A380. It is in fact a very quiet airplane (something some - mostly American - a.netters didn't want to believe at the time. One was even thinking that I had listened to Hard Rock before entering the plane so that I was more or less deaf during the flight.)

But even if it is quiet one shouldn't exaggerate. I was sitting behind John Leahy in B-class and I could not overhear his conversation with his neighbour.

Obviously enough people complained to make multiple reports. You may have thought it very quiet and not have been able to hear Mr. Leahy, but that doesn't mean anyone who complained was exaggerating. They were asked to give their impression/opinion, and they did.

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 28):
You can acoustically measure this of course.

The A340 is acoustically quieter than the 777 even though the 777 is perceived to be quieter by more of those who fly both. Doesn't make much sense on the surface, but then you realize the measurements are based on the planes' unoccupied interior noise levels. Add passengers and suddenly what Randy relayed about passenger complaints regarding the A380 aren't so ridiculous.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
Because he's a marketer and we hate marketers. Smile

Ha, that's what I thought!  Wink
 
gbfra
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:50 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 41):
Obviously enough people complained to make multiple reports.

Could you please quote these "multiple reports"?
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 1:55 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 34):
People will talk and babys will cry. A noisy cabin never stopped this, it just caused people to talk louder so that they can hear each other, thus increasing the overall noise level further.

I couldn't agree more. I also think the converse is more true than people think, that people will be quiet if the environment is such. An airplane is not a library or a symphony hall audience during a performance, but I think that people adapt to the overall level, which if lower, will go down. Much as some people have little sense of their acoustic boundaries, most people do prefer their privacy. Anytime I ride buses or trains, where I perceive a different level of ambient noise (by the way, I don't think it's just the engines, but also the ventilation system), people are generally pretty quiet. If the airlines furthermore introduce some sort of code of behavior, I think people will generally conform.

The baby screaming issue is a cheap shot to me. We were all kids, many of us flew as kids (and in an era where pressurization was not as smooth as it is now, which resulted in a lot of ear-popping), and some of us had a bad day while flying. As fellow passengers (I have been a screamer and sat next to big screamers), I think we can allow for this.

Ultimately the logic of this blog post is baffling, especially because it is not so subtly anti-social. Agaion, on buses and trains, when the silence is broken, it is generally in the form of an interesting and discreet conversation held at a decent noise volume. God forbid passengers should engage in civil discourse, maybe even get to know each other, and enjoy each other's company more than the bad movie showing.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
Wsp
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 7:43 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:22 am

We have ICE2 trains in Germany for about a decade now. They are are as quiet as public transportation can get even at max speed. I have yet to hear anyone complain about the low noise in there.

The constant loud engine noise on aircraft induces stress and causes fatigue. No amount of PR BS can cover up this fact.
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 42):
Could you please quote these "multiple reports"?

They were mentioned in the opening article: "In some reports, when passengers mentioned that this might be a bit disconcerting, they were told that one might have to �get used to� eavesdropping on an airplane."
 
vheca
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:54 am

I always thought that, if you can not hear the engine noise...kiss your A%$ goodbye!

Just my opinion!
PAX on-312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,739,742,743,74C,752,753,762,789,AB4,CR7,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
 
BlueSkys
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:58 am

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:03 am

Although I believe he makes a good point, he should keep quite about the competition. One thing i really respect boeing for is not talking "dirt" about Airbus.

I say leave the "Dirt Smearing" to Leahy, and I hope the "new Guy" posses enough class to promote Boeing and what they got to offer instead of speaking about Airbus's downfalls and so on.
 
User avatar
allrite
Posts: 2373
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:05 am

I guess the problem is that you will be able to hear the "doof-doof" from other passengers' music players (eg iPods) just like I have to put up with every day on suburban commuter trains. Hopefully the FA's will be able to force people to turn them down. The newer CityRail trains are really quiet, but most of us survive okay and I doubt if the majority of flights on an A380 will *that* bad (fewer bogans!).

I find the sound and vibration of the engines and a/c makes me really sleepy on the tarmac. Unfortunately, as soon as we take-off I'm awake again for most of the flight.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Randys Blog - Ohhhh Dear!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting Wsp (Reply 44):
We have ICE2 trains in Germany for about a decade now. They are are as quiet as public transportation can get even at max speed. I have yet to hear anyone complain about the low noise in there.

Agreed, until another one passes you in the opposite direction just as you're dozing off and you rock to one side and pee yourself a little bit.

When you're that close to napping, it's like a firecracker set off in your ear.  Smile

...and so it doesn't come across as picking on the German ICE, it's the same with the TGV, Thalys, and Eurostar.
We can agree to disagree.