Flying-Tiger
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Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:25 am

Quote:
Bahamasair’s ageing fleet is currently being reviewed as management at the national airline continues to mull proposals from three aircraft manufacturers for replacement aircraft.

Managing Director at Bahamasair Henry Woods told the Bahama Journal, however, that acquiring new aircraft would likely not take place in the short term.

"We have recently been in talks with three aircraft manufacturers; the Brazilian Embria Air, the Canadian Bombardier and Boeing aircraft company," he said.

"We have had formal presentations from these manufacturers for replacement aircraft for our fleet down the road. We could not put a date to it but we are presently doing a fleet review for the purpose of replacement aircraft for the existing fleet."

http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=45&a=13750

Interesting that they don´t consider any airbus, even though that might simply not have been mentioned. Might be an interesting decision, given their current main stage lenghts the Q400 and the possible Q400X might be very suitable for the Bahamas-Florida missions with a small number of either A319/B37G or Embraer 190s/CRJ900/1000s doing the longer routes.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:11 am

I thought Bahamasair already ordered some 737NG's and 787's.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:15 am

Here's hoping for:

Q400 (replace the Dash-8 they already have)
73G (replace the 732/73C)
788 (new longhaul)
Aiming High and going far..
 
md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:23 am

Don't hold your breath people  Embarrassment

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Interesting that they don´t consider any airbus

"A32X has too much excess range"...that's what a UP executive said.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
Q400 (replace the Dash-8 they already have)

Not gonna happen, many routes cannot support the 50 seat DASH-8s in service ATM, let alone a 70-seater.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
A319/B37G or Embraer 190s/CRJ900/1000s doing the longer routes.

There is no longer routes! (unless you include the periodic charters or flights to KIN and SDQ)  Silly

With that being said, I can see an order for ~4-6 E-jets to replace the 1981 vintage 737-200s.
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bloodyrascal
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:29 am

Ok heres the deal sad to say i wish i could see the 787 aircraft for my national aircarrier but its not going to happen. Heres what i say should go down. they should obtain some embraers to replace there real old 732s. and have them fly the florida routes and NAS-HAV and probably NAS-PLS. and NAS-KIN. they should get 4 of them. I think that they should keep the dash8s for a little while longer and start to build freeport up as a secondary hub by starting florida routes especially FPO-MCO. Seeing that a daily beech19 aircraft serves it and they could probably have 2wice daily on that route. add more freequencies on there FPO-FLL route. etc and even restart FPO-MIA. Also if Bahamasair wants to to LongHaul flights like NAS-LGW. etc they should obtain a older version 767 model. and they can also use it on some short to medium haul flights for charters and start there expansion within the states and Canada NAS-JFK, NAS-BOS, NAS-ORD, NAS-YHZ etc. And for there family island routes they can have the dash8s on the more profitable routes like NAS-FPO, MHH,TCB,ELH,RSD,GHB and GGT. and then obtain smaller aircraft for the other routes. I really cant wait till the airport in NAS is expanded on and rebuilt because the idea sounds really nice and I honestly think that if Bahamasair looks at there schedule and revamps there schedule so that NAS can finally become a true hub for Bahamasair and have it so that passengers can actually MAKE there connecting flights to the family islands or wherever they may be. and when they build over the airport it will hopefully run alot smoother for connections and thats how those family island flights will be alot more full. I am away in Canada. Do you know how many people have told me they rather fly to the states then connect in Nassau. cause in The States there is order and what not. My friend flies to MIA Just to get to freeport from YYZ-MIA-FPO

Instead of YYZ-NAS-FPO. I would like for Bahamasair to at least try and do something and get a new management or become privatised please cause yall jus sittin dere raising your debt. I give my grandfather props (basil sands is my grandfather) while he was chairman he managed to acquire to more jets and 2 dash8s and manage to decrease the amount of delays and what not
 
fpofllflyboi
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Interesting that they don´t consider any airbus, even though that might simply not have been mentioned.

You probably hit the nail on the head here. A few years ago they were in talks with Boeing, Airbus and Embraer. Boeing's offer was to pricey for them, Airbus didn't have suitable equipment but Embraer came the closest with a good financing offer but nothing ever came out of it.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 3):
There is no longer routes! (unless you include the periodic charters or flights to KIN and SDQ)

Longer routes could be created if there is a possible opportunity for revenue which may come from hotel charters/junkets similiar to what Laker Bahamas did in FPO.

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
add more freequencies on there FPO-FLL route. etc and even restart FPO-MIA

Can't wait to see how NK does on that route starting December. Grand Bahamians favour FLL over MIA and Nassuvians favour MIA.

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
My friend flies to MIA Just to get to freeport from YYZ-MIA-FPO

Well AC used to fly YYZ-FPO or YUL- FPO before. Why not just try to restart that with an E-170/E-190. There are still quite a bit of Canadiennes/Canadians that live in FPO.
 
bloodyrascal
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 5):
Well AC used to fly YYZ-FPO or YUL- FPO before. Why not just try to restart that with an E-170/E-190. There are still quite a bit of Canadiennes/Canadians that live in FPO.

Air Canada isnt interested in expansion withthin The Bahamas right now.

And If i was them I would jump on that oppurtunity
 
VictorKilo
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:41 pm

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
and they can also use it on some short to medium haul flights for charters and start there expansion within the states and Canada NAS-JFK, NAS-BOS, NAS-ORD, NAS-YHZ etc.

They don't need a 767 for that - all of those routes listed could be operated with an E170/E190, as well as NAS-DFW, NAS-MEX, NAS-PTY, NAS-CCS, and pretty much every flight Bahamasair could fly with a full plane, with the exception of NAS-LGW. The A32x series is more range than they need to buy - why spend more per plane so you could theoretically fly NAS-LAX nonstop, a flight that won't make you enough money to pay for the extra cost per plane?
 
flymia
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
The States there is order and what not. My friend flies to MIA Just to get to freeport from YYZ-MIA-FPO



Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
Instead of YYZ-NAS-FPO. I

It would be great to see Bahamasair have real hub become a true flag carrier with some more flights. But YVZ-MIA-FPO makes more sense than flying down to NAS. MIA-FPO is a shorter flight and you have preclearance customs in YYZ which is a breeze to go through.
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ERJ170
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:13 am

This is still my preference:


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Aiming High and going far..
 
fpofllflyboi
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:24 am

This would be cool if they got some F-100



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[Edited 2007-08-18 00:26:49]

[Edited 2007-08-18 00:27:36]
 
md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
NAS-JFK, NAS-BOS, NAS-ORD, NAS-YHZ

Those flights don't need a 767! If we wanted to waste tax-payers dollars, London would be alot more fashionable. A 100 seater is alot more realisitic for the aforementioned routes

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 4):
FPO-MCO. Seeing that a daily beech19 aircraft serves it and they could probably have 2wice daily on that route. add more freequencies on there FPO-FLL route. etc and even restart FPO-MIA

A route supporting a 19-seater doesn't mean it can support a 50-seater. Based on that logic, does that make FLL-Andros Town eligible for a 50-seater?

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 8):
It would be great to see Bahamasair have real hub become a true flag carrier with some more flights

IMO they are a "true flag carrier" they fly where Bahamians reside and visit (namely Florida and select Caribbean islands), if they opened up all the routes I see proposed (ORD,BOS,YYZ,RDU,DEN,TPA,CCS,YUL,etc) they'll just be a brainchild of the tourism department.

Anyways, I think this is the best bet for UP and new planes (much better colours too)    :

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[Edited 2007-08-18 00:26:54]
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Scooter01
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 11):
A route supporting a 19-seater doesn't mean it can support a 50-seater. Based on that logic, does that make FLL-Andros Town eligible for a 50-seater?

This brings back some memories:

On a return trip to ASD after a day of shopping in NAS back in '75, a guy brought some 2x4s with him. They were too long to fit in the cargo-hold, so where did they put them? On the cabin floor in the DC-3.

Scooter  smile 
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MCOflyer
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:45 am

Well I think the E190 is the best jet for their ops. It has the range, pax capacity and cargo that UP needs. If not E-Jets, I would expect them to get some 735's for the interm.

Hunter
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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 13):
Well I think the E190 is the best jet for their ops. It has the range, pax capacity and cargo that UP needs. If not E-Jets, I would expect them to get some 735's for the interm.

That seems to be the general concensus, now if they would only take heed.
 
freshlove1
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
Here's hoping for:

Q400 (replace the Dash-8 they already have)
73G (replace the 732/73C)
788 (new longhaul)

Q400 - could probably be used on several routes as it could hold plenty more cargo/pax then the DASH-8's they got now

73G - yeah you got to get something more efficiant to replace the 737-200's although the 200 is a solid aircraft but it may be time to upgrade the fleet although if the 200's are paid for does it really balance out to get new 737's and have to pay lease fees compared to the current fuel and MTC fees for the 200's ?

788 - yep no doubt. I think they would probably use that for the NAS-RDU service
 
MAH4546
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:36 pm

The point of Bahamasair is to fly Bahamians where they need to go. They do not need to get caught up in trying to cater to tourists. Air Jamaica did, and look at the mess they are in. Bahamasair needs a new fleet, but their route network is absolutely fine. To the United States, the only gaps I see are Tampa-Nassau and Miami-Freeport. I also think that a daily flight to Port Au Prince, serving the large Haitian community in New Providence, would be great.

While it would be nice to see them flying throughout the East Coast catering to tourists, it won't work. Look at how busy a destination Mexico is for American tourists. Mexican airlines, however, are barely flying any of the vacation routes (from Cancun, for instance, the only trans-border service on a Mexican airlines are three daily Mexicana flights - one to Los Angeles and two to Miami). Tour operators perfer to use US carriers, and travel agents perfer to book on US carriers. It is a simple matter of greater scheduling flexibility, typically better on-time performance, and the percieved notion that a US airline is safer than a foreign airline (I'm not saying they are, and UP has a great safety record, but that perception is still there). This isn't going to change.

The ideal new Bahamasair fleet, in my opinion, would consist of four 737-700s and ten Dash Q400s if they decided to go new. However, even if they were to acquire 737-400s and Q400s second hand, it would be a huge improvement. The 737s are absolutely nessecary for routes to Miami and Fort Lauderdale because of the need for cargo. With four 73Gs, they should be able to operate about eight daily turns to Miami and six to Fort Lauderdale. The Dash planes are perfect for intra-island routes and secondary routes to Florida, as well as their services to Jamaica, Cuba, and the Turks & Caicos.

Bahamasair has fallen out of favour in South Florida, with Bahamians and Floridians alike, as they have garnered a bad reputation for old aircraft, long delays, and lost baggage. A new fleet will go along way to fixing this.

[Edited 2007-08-18 05:38:03]
a.
 
TransIsland
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 5):
Grand Bahamians favour FLL over MIA and Nassuvians favour MIA.

Speak for yourself! I'm a Nassauvian and I LOATHE MIA!

Sadly, UP is not run like a business, thus the decision won't be solely based on UP's needs (when they acquired the Dash-8, their consultants had advised them to order the F50...)

UP needs a B732 replacement, first and foremost. They need a fully grown jet, because of the cargo requirements. If they're looking at new planes, they have two options: A318 or B736. If they're looking at used planes, I reckon they might want to find a B735. (Remember, they're only operating 3 B732s, so we don't need a large number of replacement aircraft) All the RJs would meet the pax and range requirements but not the cargo requirement. UP would be in the same mess again they found themselves in before 1992, when for a while they had no jets. Better to have excess range than too little cargo space!
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SkyyMaster
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
I thought Bahamasair already ordered some 737NG's and 787's.

787? Considering their longest route is what, NAS-HAV (unless there's something I am missing) seems rather excessive eh? I agree the E-jet series would fit nicely into their current system, and could allow them to expand into the U.S. northeast (though unlikely). It would be nice to see the Q400 perhaps on the MIA, FLL, and PBI runs, maybe adding TPA and putting it into MCO. I don't know what their inter-island loads are like, but as someone pointed out, it may be too much aircraft.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 15):

788 - yep no doubt. I think they would probably use that for the NAS-RDU service

Please tell me your joking right?

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 18):
I agree the E-jet series would fit nicely into their current system, and could allow them to expand into the U.S. northeast (though unlikely).

Doesn't US code share with UP?

Ok, my theory is that UP will look at the 736, E190, 735, and A318 for the jets. The prop choices are the ATR 42/72, Dash 8 300/400. Now we all know the E190 would seem most likely if they CAN afford new jets. If not, the 735 would seem better. For the props I would go the Dash 300Q and or Dash 8 200 if they still make them. That would be a good fit for UP fleet.

I think UP would rather code share on longhaul and not order 788. If they had high density runs for cargo and pax, then the 783 might make a good fit but the 788 wouldn't fit into their fleet with the current problems. Maybe in the future but not now.

Hunter
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SkyyMaster
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 19):
I think UP would rather code share on longhaul and not order 788. If they had high density runs for cargo and pax, then the 783 might make a good fit but the 788 wouldn't fit into their fleet with the current problems. Maybe in the future but not now.

Are the Bahamas even a preferred destination for European vacationers? AFAIK, no European carriers fly there, scheduled (BA maybe?) or charter, although I'm sure they get a few charters. Seems as if most Euro travellers prefer destinations in Cuba, and those such as Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, St. Maarten, etc.
 
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par13del
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:28 am

My two cents worth.
UP has never been fully capitalized, with fleet renewal in play, the best the govt. will do - yes the govt. - is to get some second hand a/c, best would be the B-737 anything above the 200 and not the 600, 700 series would do fine. The Dash-8 with 50 seats is the best compromise if looking at a single fleet for interisland ops, it's too large for some - seat capacity - and slightly too small for others.

Biggest thing the govt. can do - both the last and this one - is to really start / continue improvements of the Family Island airports, lights would be ideal for all. This would allow UP the ability to use a/c more efficiently, and reduce the number of a/c required for its schedule. The last few years has seen some improvement in the inter-island routes mainly due to the increase in the number of Dash-8 on premises, however, they paid a hefty price for that. Until they can operate flights into some islands after sunset, their fleet will have to either have high utility rates during daylight hours, or more a/c than necessary.

Long term, I agree with some poster above, let UP serve its citizens, don't worry about the tourist market. As long as they can provide a bridge to Miami for example, tourist will always have a way to the Bahamas.
 
fpofllflyboi
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 17):
Speak for yourself! I'm a Nassauvian and I LOATHE MIA!

Ha ha, hence my name FPOFLL. Grand Bahamians luv FLL. Of course this may be because of the Discovery Cruise Lines' FPO-FLL daily service with the opportunity to bring back huge amounts of cargo.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 20):
Are the Bahamas even a preferred destination for European vacationers?

Not like it was in the 70's and 80's. Yes, only BA has scheduled flights to the Bahamas, namely NAS.
 
atct
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:59 am

The 717 wouldve been a perfect aircraft....but its no longer in production. (obviously).

The A318 / 736 / E170-190 / CRj7-9 / ATR72 / Q300-400 all fit the bill of current fleet replacement (plane by plane) or as aircraft that can go to a one aircraft fleet.

As many have said, I think the 73's and A320 Fam seem to be too large and excess of what Bahamasair appears to need unless they plan expansion. In their current state, I would say the Q400/CR9/E170 would be the best bets. The E-170 and CR7-9 can easily do the NAS-NYC type runs, so you have room for expansion, yet at the same time would fit the 70 seat role great for interisland/caribbean/florida flights.

ATCT
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MCOflyer
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:50 am

Isnt the NYC market already covered? Also, would Embraer give UP a deal if they went with them? With people talking about new runs and big planes here is the current US routes they fly:

FLL-NAS
MCO-NAS
MIA-NAS
PBI-NAS

Possible additions:

JFK-NAS
ORD-NAS
FPO-MIA

Routes that could warrant a 787:
MIA-NAS
FPO-NAS

After looking at UP's route map I do not see any other routes that warrant a 787. UP can code share via PHL and CLT on US. If they wanted to expand I would suggest asking US to let them fly thier CLT run once they get new equipment or start 3x weekly flight to JFK or BOS.

Hunter
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TransIsland
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 22):
Yes, only BA has scheduled flights to the Bahamas, namely NAS.

First Choice has a once a week charter service from MAN to NAS, and some French carrier flies from Paris to straight to San Sal.

My thoughts on Bahamasair: Either upgrade it and allow it to become a real airline, or let it die and let the Western Airs and Pineapple Airs and all them serve the domestic flying needs of this country.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
Sinlock
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 13):
Well I think the E190 is the best jet for their ops. It has the range, pax capacity and cargo that UP needs.

I don't agree. The 190 not only has a smaller cargo hold (799 cf) then the 737-200 (875 cf). But the E-Jets typically get a much lower yield of that space due the contore of the bin wall and height of the ceiling. Even if you upgraded the aircraft to an 195 (906 cf) you still have deal with the E-jets small cargo door, meaning you have to leave most of the odd/over sized goods typically found on UP flights (large flat screen tvs, car doors, small rolls of carpet, and all the other fun stuff.

Here at FLL we are on average getting a cargo charter every week and during the winter holidays we have filled the AN-26 and still had 100 bags left behind. I'm sure it's the same story at MCO and MIA.

UP needs a larger aircraft and it doesn't need to be new. A 734,735 or older 319 will provide a little growth, more cargo up lift, and likely improve UP's on time numbers. That item is reason enough...
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:22 am

My little $0.05 worth..

I know everyone says Bahamasair should stick to what they know and that's Bahamians.. but I really think UP is losing out not catering to the tourista crowd. Yes, Bahamasair for Bahamias. Yes, they bring everything, the kitchen sink, and all the lost ships and aircraft from the Triangle.

But Bahama's major all-time biggest catchment is tourism. And they need to cater to that crowd too. I really really think they should offer some flights to more destinations. But I think it should be controlled and thought-out. AA, CO, US, NW, BA, Virgin, DL etc all offer flights to the bahamas and it is primarily tourists going to play. Yet, Bahamasair cannot do the same thing? That is just crazy..

Okay, so not a lot of Bahamas people go to STL. How many people from STL would go to the Bahamas? 100 a week? FINE! Throw a E70 or CRJ or DH8 on the route. Make it once a week. That means that same aircraft could do IND, BDL, MSY, TPA, BDA, and CLT the other 6 days. All of a sudden, that one aircraft is opening all new routes. Routes that could mature and perhaps move to 2 days a week. or even daily. Opening all new revenue sources; allowing for expansions and connections; and moving the company forward not stagnant or tied down to a small niche market.

Does AA just fly to business destinations or to place where JUST Americans want to go? No.. that's why one can make a connection in MIA, SJU, NYC, DFW, even RDU and AUS...

I just think the people behind Bahamasair and such should think outside the box and quit confining themselves to just where Bahamas people want to go. If that is their entire strategy and they don't move past that, they won't get very far.

One last thought.. IF Bahamasair wants a focus city, why not BDA? It has no national carrier and it has opportunity for growth just like Bahamas. Just a thought on my side.
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MCOflyer
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 26):

UP needs a larger aircraft and it doesn't need to be new. A 734,735 or older 319 will provide a little growth, more cargo up lift, and likely improve UP's on time numbers. That item is reason enough...

If you want the cheapest option UP should pick up a couple of 733 or 735's. What about a 733QC or 734C? Would UP benefit from a 734C like AS does?

Hunter
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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting ATCT (Reply 23):
The 717 wouldve been a perfect aircraft....but its no longer in production. (obviously).

AirTran offered us a few, but we all know what happened  boggled 

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 24):
Isnt the NYC market already covered?

Nope, there is room for a local carrier flying NAS-NYC IMO, it's such a large market with porous demand on each end, UP can't really go wrong with this. To show the shear size of the market, not too long ago the route had B6,CO,DL,NK and US flying it.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 24):
Possible additions:

If they were to expand in the Northeast, I wouldn't be surprised to see Boston. Boston is a fairly large market to the Caribbean (tourism oriented, of course) and has no trouble filling up B6's and Delta's E-90 and MD-88 flights to Nassau, respectively.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 25):
Either upgrade it and allow it to become a real airline, or let it die and let the Western Airs and Pineapple Airs and all them serve the domestic flying needs of this country.

Yeah-if they make it past 7 frames  silly . BTW, SkyBahamas is starting service to Long Island today.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 25):
and some French carrier flies from Paris to straight to San Sal.

Hmm, Corsair?

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 27):
It has no national carrier and it has opportunity for growth just like Bahamas. Just a thought on my side.

We tried that with Turks and Caicos in the late 90s, we flew Grand Turk-Miami and applied for Provodenciales-Fort Lauderdale, it didn't work out-but I think that had more to do with the retirement of Shorts 330s and lack of aircraft.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 28):
What about a 733QC or 734C? Would UP benefit from a 734C like AS does?

I don't see the need for it-many small islands are accessible by mail-boats, of which are more the capable of carrying oversized loads.
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trintocan
Posts: 2725
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:02 am

The problem with UP (like BW, OA, AZ and many others) is the need to balance domestic services to the many Family Islands (after all poeple would need to travel to NAS for various services etc.) with international operations (principally MIA and FLL) and then consider the tourist market. To forget the tourist market altogether is not unusual, that is what BW actually did with respect to TAB - after losing money flying from there to FRA and ARN they ended the services and left them for the likes of Condor who still do FRA to this day.

Ultimately I think that the best thing would be to have a bipartite fleet as they have now, using newer Dash-8s and 737-600s or -700s to directly replace the older birds. As for Bermuda, that is a more tricky proposition. Bermuda is a very exclusive sort of resort, quite unlike the mass-market destination of The Bahamas and is quite remote. If the airline were to try to expand to a hub there they would need planes with the extra range (i.e. no nearby alternates). In the current difficult situation they are in it would be best for them to stick to The Bahamas and concentrate on rebuilding themselves before extravagantly expanding elsewhere.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
TransIsland
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 26):
UP needs a larger aircraft and it doesn't need to be new. A 734,735 or older 319 will provide a little growth, more cargo up lift, and likely improve UP's on time numbers. That item is reason enough...

Exactly

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 29):
Yeah-if they make it past 7 frames

Talk to the government. No private Bahamian airline is allowed more than 7 a/c... that's why Western Air man's wife has "Vision Air." rofl.

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 30):
The problem with UP (like BW, OA, AZ and many others) is the need to balance domestic services to the many Family Islands

Right. And except for a halfhearted code-share agreement with US, UP has abandoned the tourist pie. Big mistake. If Int'l ops, NAS-FPO and NAS-Out Islands calls for a more diversified fleet, then get a more diversified fleet. Or let other carriers fill the gap.

Since UP's start, domestic private competition has been "discouraged" (to put it mildly), but UP hasn't delivered adequate frequencies either.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
bloodyrascal
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:48 am

Bahamasair should consider keeping there 732s and make them into cargo aircraft. whatever they decide to replace the 732s with I agree they should NEED to expand. I say they should keep the dash8s for a little while longer when they get there new aircraft and make FPO a focus city or even better a secondary hub and have those dash8s fly out of FPO to MCO, MIA, HAV, PLS. PBI. also they could start serving the other family islands from freeport.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 31):

Since UP's start, domestic private competition has been "discouraged" (to put it mildly), but UP hasn't delivered adequate frequencies either.

That is simply because they dont have enough aircraft to have adequate frequencies. Remeber they only have 8 dash8s and 3 732s and they keep the 732s on The florida routes and FPO. Only every now and again To MHH when they dont have any aircraft.

Since they codeshare with US they could codeshare moe flights out of PHL for longhaul flights.

I think they should aquire smaller aircraft for the family island flights
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 32):
Remeber they only have 8 dash8s and 3 732s and they keep the 732s on The florida routes and FPO. Only every now and again To MHH when they dont have any aircraft.

7 DASH-8s: C6-BFG/H/I/J/O/P/W (1 bird is down in Governor's Harbour)

Pointless fact: The 737s occasionally trek to North Eleuthera, too.

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 30):
If the airline were to try to expand to a hub there they would need planes with the extra range (i.e. no nearby alternates).

It's not that far-E-90s have been to the island on numerous occasions.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
bloodyrascal
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 33):
If the airline were to try to expand to a hub there they would need planes with the extra range (i.e. no nearby alternates).



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 33):
It's not that far-E-90s have been to the island on numerous occasions.

Yep Jetblue uses them on the NAS-BOS and once daily on the NAS-JFK also United Airlines sends the E-170 on the NAS-IAD route. Dont underestimate those E-90s they have quite the range and that would be good for Bahamasair.

You would be suprised that the longer US routes going to NAS are usually served by smaller aircraft. like crjs, emb 145s etc. compare to the 45 minute flights on a A319 and 732s etc

On another note just curious will they ever fix the dash8 that crash landed or will that go to the dogs?
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Bahamasair Ponders New Fleet

Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 34):
If the airline were to try to expand to a hub there they would need planes with the extra range (i.e. no nearby alternates).

The OP was referring to Bermuda, of which is 640miles from the nearest land.

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 34):
It's not that far-E-90s have been to the island on numerous occasions.

I was referring to E-90s serving BDA, but now that your talking about NAS, AC has been sending the E-90 all summer (from YYZ).

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 34):
On another note just curious will they ever fix the dash8 that crash landed or will that go to the dogs?

TransIsland said he talked to a UP pilot and the pilot said the aircraft in mention was sitting on crates in Governor's Harbour still, keep in mind this was a few weeks ago though.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/