ZBBYLW
Topic Author
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:46 am

So now that YYZ-HKG are on the 77L what has happened to the two 345s?
Keep the shinny side up!
 
Simps747
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:35 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:21 pm

I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold. Isn't something like 95% of A/C's fleet leased?

Does Boeing ever take A/C in on trade? IE: If you buy 10 brand new 777's, we'll take in your 343's and sell them ourselves?
 
ren41
Posts: 1456
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):

Does Boeing ever take A/C in on trade? IE: If you buy 10 brand new 777's, we'll take in your 343's and sell them ourselves?

Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

R41
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:36 pm

I believe HKG is actually being altered with the 777-300ER/A340-300/A340-500 and LHR is also seeing the A340-500 until sometime in October when they go to TAM.
No Vueling No Party
 
AC777LR
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:37 pm

They will be back to China soon PVG, they are flying some YYZ to LHR routs right now.
Member since April 2000
 
cinja
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:55 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:06 pm

I saw C-GKOL at NRT on Sunday August 12, arriving as AC001 from YYZ. G-KOM apparently arrived the following day according to spotter logs. So I would guess the 345's will still be taking care of some of the longer flights until the rest of the 777s are delivered.

CinJA
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

I don't think they cared much. They cared more about why they lost a A343 customer to Boeing's 777.
 
Acey
Posts: 981
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:16 pm

AC 87, YYZ-PVG leaving Friday morning, is a 345. AC 88 coming back is a 343. A pair of 77L's are settled in nicely on YYZ-HKG, and YYZ-NRT and back is a 77W. I don't have the energy to dig through the timetables to find the other 345.

Quoting CinJA (Reply 5):
So I would guess the 345's will still be taking care of some of the longer flights until the rest of the 777s are delivered.

Well...the next 777 delivery isn't until November, when 703, a 77L, arrives. Rumour has it, however, that the 345's are going to TAM in October. We'll have to see.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 6):
They cared more about why they lost a A343 customer to Boeing's 777.

The 343 is closer to the 777-200ER than to the 77L's and 77W's which AC bought in this new order...they would have never in a million years considered buying new 343's. If anything, they would have bought more 345's for cargo/range reasons, but fuel burn for those birds, as Airbus haters put it, is "astronomical". AC is also diverging from four-engined aircraft.

[Edited 2007-08-17 09:21:18]
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:21 pm

I'm really going to miss all the airbus A340s, I really enjoy flying them, it doesn' t really bother me how the performance of the a/c as long it takes me from point A to point B safely.
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:36 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 7):
The 343 is closer to the 777-200ER than to the 77L's and 77W's which AC bought in this new order...they would have never in a million years considered buying new 343's. If anything, they would have bought more 345's for cargo/range reasons, but fuel burn for those birds, as Airbus haters put it, is "astronomical". AC is also diverging from four-engined aircraft.

Ehmm, I answered to a post that asked how Airbus thought when Boeing accepted a trade-in of some Airbus planes. Aside from your fuel statement being rather exaggerated (even Airbus haters wouldn't put it that way), it was not my intention to get into any sort of A343 vs. B777 discussion ...
 
pilot21
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:16 pm

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

Airbus was furious with SQ/Boeing when this deal went through. At the time, Airbus actually threatened to withhold any sales/tech support from the Carrier who took them off Boeing's hands. However, after a short while, common sense prevailed and the planes were supported when they found homes around the world. Annoying Boeing with a threat is one thing, but annoying such a big and important carrier as SQ and the people who bought the A340's in the end was just stupid, so they backed off. The big issue Airbus had with the deal was that Boeing were the registered owners of the A340's for a short time I believe, so Airbus had to send them all the service bulletins/updated tech notes etc. Talk about the enemy infiltrating your base!

Pilot21
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:23 pm

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold.

According to Airlinerlist, they're to be returned to their lessor in October, before going to JJ.
 
flytuitravel
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:59 pm

To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/view/all/AllALLE.htm

FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
jog
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 12):
To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie...E.htm

The reason that everyone is assuming them going to TAM is that TAM lists them already as a part of their fleet projection (see page 24 of http://www.b2i.cc/Document/1214/TAM_ER_2T07_eng.pdf ). According to this information the airbus wide-body fleet will contain 15 aircraft by the end of the year. They currently operate 10 A332 (see page 8) and will get another three new A332 by the end of the year. It was confirmed by JJMNGR that the two other aircrafts will be two used A345, being delivered in October (see TWO A345 To TAM (by JJMNGR May 6 2007 in Civil Aviation) ). It seems that the two A345 of AC are the two only ones obviously available on the market. So it is the assumption here that TAM will get them.
 
sebring
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 12):
To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie...E.htm

First of all, the planes are owned. Secondly, Air Canada's latest quarterly report (early August) has the planes leased out and gone from the fleet by year-end. It is possible, of course, that the lease is short term and the planes are still on offer for a longer term.
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
Does Boeing ever take A/C in on trade?

Yes. For a time Boeing was the biggest buyer of used A340s in the world!

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 11):
Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold.

According to Airlinerlist, they're to be returned to their lessor in October, before going to JJ.

TAM announced recently they they were buying the AC aircraft. They are due to leave AC soon.

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 12):

To all you saying they are going to JJ, which is bugging me, ACs 345s are still available for lease and therefore can't have been leased or sold to TAM! Heres the link to prove it http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie...E.htm

That info was last updated in May, TAM probably had not signed the agreement at that stage.
 
User avatar
SAS A340
Posts: 713
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:15 pm

In pure look perspective i will miss the 345! they were stunning to see in AC. No quads in AC fleet now right?  bored 
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
da man
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:27 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 10):
The big issue Airbus had with the deal was that Boeing were the registered owners of the A340's for a short time I believe, so Airbus had to send them all the service bulletins/updated tech notes etc.

Heck, Airbus even delivered an A340 directly to Boeing  duck   flamed 
War Eagle!
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 16):
No quads in AC fleet now right?

They still have a343's IIRC, but those are leaving the fleet too as more 777's arrive I believe.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 16):
No quads in AC fleet now right?

Wrong.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 18):
They still have a343's IIRC

Yes, ten.

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/airlinepage.php?code1=AC

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/index.html
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7068
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:41 am

Who will do the painting for JJ's A345's since AC ownes them and doesnt lease them.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 20):
Who will do the painting for JJ's A345's since AC ownes them and doesnt lease them

It's a negotiated issue, but very good chance AC's paint shop will secure this contract. Believe that most recently, they painted a leased ex 767-300 that was sent to Virgin Nigeria. Not sure about the 340-300 that went to Aerolineas Argentinas.
Above and Beyond
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 19):
They still have a343's IIRC
Yes, ten.

Small correction here, they indeed still have ten A340s in their fleet but eight of them are A340-300s.
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 21):
Not sure about the 340-300 that went to Aerolineas Argentinas.

I believe that was painted in the desert.
No Vueling No Party
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2447
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold. Isn't something like 95% of A/C's fleet leased?

The A345s were ordered in 1997 by then CEO and Airbus lover Lamar Durrett. (Robert Milton tried to entice the 777 on him, to no avail).

Most of the 762s and 763s are owned.
Most of the A320s are leased.
Most of the 319s are owned.
Half of the 321s are owned/leased
Most of the A340s are leased.
Most of the A330s are owned.
All of the ERJs and CRJs are owned.
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:38 am

For the time being, the A340-500s have been re-assigned to Toronto - Shanghai.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18834
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 11):
Quoting Simps747 (Reply 1):
I would suspect they were either returned to who they were leased from or sold.

According to Airlinerlist, they're to be returned to their lessor in October, before going to JJ.

That can't be correct as the two 345s are the only A340's that AC actually owns.

[Edited 2007-08-17 22:44:35]
 
spotter
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 6:44 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:04 am

Well as of last night the 16th of August we had both 345's in YYZ, both in the hangar. 952 was having an engine change and a repair to an inboard slat, and had been on the ground for two days. 951 was also in the hangar for some maintenance, but did leave today. From what I hear both will leave the fleet as of mid-september, supposedly going over to China for some heavy check's, and then they will leave, I am assuming TAM will receive the two as I haven't heard officially who is getting them, maybe they will be painted out in China at the same time as there heavy checks.
JR
 
Sandager
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:13 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

Well why not use it for commercials. Even our competitors want our aircrafts!!!!!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves

More than two, that's just the ones that were taken ex-factory

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's.

Somewhere between indignified and infuriated....

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 6):
I don't think they cared much.

*WRONG*
...heck, Airbus publically refused to support or offer parts for any A340 taken from Boeing. Cathay called bullsh!t on that, and proved correct.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
sebring
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 24):

The A345s were ordered in 1997 by then CEO and Airbus lover Lamar Durrett. (Robert Milton tried to entice the 777 on him, to no avail).

That's revisionist history. The A345 and A346 orders were placed after AC had added the 333 to the 343. As Milton recounted the 777 vs 333 competition, Airbus made him an offer the airline couldn't refuse so while he preferred the 777 from a strategic point of view, the decision was no Durrett's; it was dictated by a vastly superior value proposition that included a discount on 10 A319s the airline was awaiting delivery on.
 
trex8
Posts: 4577
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

the ENTIRE SQ fleet went to Boeing and they were all leased out

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 10):
Airbus was furious with SQ/Boeing when this deal went through. At the time, Airbus actually threatened to withhold any sales/tech support from the Carrier who took them off Boeing's hands. However, after a short while, common sense prevailed and the planes were supported when they found homes around the world. Annoying Boeing with a threat is one thing, but annoying such a big and important carrier as SQ and the people who bought the A340's in the end was just stupid, so they backed off. The big issue Airbus had with the deal was that Boeing were the registered owners of the A340's for a short time I believe, so Airbus had to send them all the service bulletins/updated tech notes etc. Talk about the enemy infiltrating your base!

It was only when CX appeared as a likely recipient of the exSQ planes did Airbus agree to stop ranting and raving as that would have upset a major A340/330 customer.
Boeing were for a while very concerned they would be stuck with those planes for a long time, ultimately things worked out quite well for them.
I seriously doubt getting hold of the service bulletins etc requires major industrial espionage
 
thering
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:44 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:07 am

They are going to TAM for MAD and FRA services star-up
146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18834
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 31):
Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

the ENTIRE SQ fleet went to Boeing

I believe Boeing remarketed all 17 SQ 343s, including a couple that hadn't been delivered when SQ decided to switch to the 772ER.
 
trex8
Posts: 4577
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 33):
Quoting Trex8 (Reply 31):
Quoting Ren41 (Reply 2):
Though I do not know the full details of the transaction, a few years ago Boeing did take possession of two former SQ A343's and sold them themselves. I wonder how happy Airbus was with Boeing owning a couple A340's..

the ENTIRE SQ fleet went to Boeing

I believe Boeing remarketed all 17 SQ 343s, including a couple that hadn't been delivered when SQ decided to switch to the 772ER.

3 to CX
4 to GF
8 to EK
1 to EY
1 to CI (and now to QR)

one to GF and the one for CI were never delivered by Airbus to SQ
 
vega
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting Jog (Reply 13):
It was confirmed by JJMNGR that the two other aircrafts will be two used A345, being delivered in October (see TWO A345 To TAM (by JJMNGR May 6 2007 in Civil Aviation) ). It seems that the two A345 of AC are the two only ones obviously available on the market. So it is the assumption here that TAM will get them.

The thing that complicates this web of confusion is that AC updated their listing with SpeedNews almost a month after the announced TAM acquisition and reiterated availability for September 2007. I contacted Speednews in July about this potential discrepancy and they replied that AC wishes to retain/not remove the Listing. So this is quite confusing. Maybe AC is waiting for some monetary transfer to occur, or? By the way, the updated listing is for LEASE only. The original listing was for Lease or Sale.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4941
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:02 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 3):
sometime in October when they go to TAM.

The agreement with TAM has been cancelled as of last week.

AC will retain ownership of the aircraft for the time being. As the fleet plan does not include them after October, the aircraft will be stored in the desert pending sale.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
vega
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 35):
By the way, the updated listing is for LEASE only. The original listing was for Lease or Sale.



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 36):
The agreement with TAM has been cancelled as of last week.

AC will retain ownership of the aircraft for the time being. As the fleet plan does not include them after October, the aircraft will be stored in the desert pending sale.

I am not doubting your claim because it appears a reasonable explanation to my reference, however is there any publicly available statement to this effect? The aircraft are also likely available as listed - for Lease. This brings up the potential interesting scenario that US Airways may acquire the lease for PHL-China - as was earlier rumoured.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 36):
The agreement with TAM has been cancelled as of last week. AC will retain ownership of the aircraft for the time being. As the fleet plan does not include them after October, the aircraft will be stored in the desert pending sale.

Alright, but how is this possible then ?
TAM To Begin GRU-FRA Eff. Nov 30 With A345 (by LipeGIG Aug 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4941
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 38):
Alright, but how is this possible then ?

No idea, as things in this business change by the hour.

Presently I am working with Crew Planning, in arranging the movement of crews (pilots, one f/a, and maintenance) from the desert to Toronto, after delivery of the -500s for storage.

By this time tomorrow, we could be sending the -500s to PHL for US .... who knows?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 39):
No idea, as things in this business change by the hour.Presently I am working with Crew Planning, in arranging the movement of crews (pilots, one f/a, and maintenance) from the desert to Toronto, after delivery of the -500s for storage.By this time tomorrow, we could be sending the -500s to PHL for US .... who knows?

In other words, lets wait and see.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4941
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 40):
In other words, lets wait and see.

Exactly!

I do find it curious though when internally, Flight Operations announced the cancellation of the deal with TAM, and subsequent desert storage for the -500s, while TAM is announcing new routes for A340-500s in what would appear to be an Air Canada cabin configuration.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 36):
The agreement with TAM has been cancelled as of last week.

AC will retain ownership of the aircraft for the time being. As the fleet plan does not include them after October, the aircraft will be stored in the desert pending sale.

It is not inexpensive to store the a/c....does AC not have any use for them in time being that could free up other 763s maybe for route expansion?
 
aad665
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 1999 11:03 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 42):
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 36):
The agreement with TAM has been cancelled as of last week.

AC will retain ownership of the aircraft for the time being. As the fleet plan does not include them after October, the aircraft will be stored in the desert pending sale.

It is not inexpensive to store the a/c....does AC not have any use for them in time being that could free up other 763s maybe for route expansion?

Or to speed up XM project?
 
sebring
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 42):

It is not inexpensive to store the a/c....does AC not have any use for them in time being that could free up other 763s maybe for route expansion?

Except for China, the current management of AC isn't into hollus bollous expansion. Right now, AC management does not believe it has the right aircraft to dabble in the Indian subcontinent or the Middle East, which would be marginal for a small market airline going up against national carriers with big mid-east hubs or home markets. AC believes the 787-8 and 787-9 are the planes whose economics are tailor made for carriers like it to undertake such expansion. That's why AC is a major 787 customer.

Secondly, the allocation of 777s is in itself a form of expansion. Flying a 777-300ER on YYZ-YVR-SYD this winter is an investment in growth, as is flying the 773 to a number of other markets which it has served in the past with aircraft as small as the 767-300. My information is that AC management believes that until it has not only completed the acquisition of all 17 777s, and learned how to optimize revenue opportunities using those aircraft, it does not have much room for any high cost experimentation. It might add some 767 flying here or there, perhaps adding a frequency like it did this summer by going to double-daily YVR-PEK and adding seasonal daily YUL-FCO flights.

Since AC could find a lessee for the 345s on fairly short notice, were it to fly them in the interim it would have to know it has a pair of long-haul capable 777s to replace these two 345s (or it might lose the opportunity to move those 345s). To the best of my knowledge, AC's fleet plan does not have two uncommitted 777s among the 10 still to be delivered, as five are replacements for A-340s and there are up to three 767-300s leaving the fleet this year and next. Now I can think of a few situations that might tempt AC to make commitments to a new route, but all would require new or amended bilateral agreements and in two cases, would require strong interest by a foreign partner. YYZ-LAX-SYD, for example, is one possibility, but only if the Canada-Oz bilateral is amended. YYZ-JNB is a possibility, but only if a bilateral is negotiated and SAA comes on board, which it hasn't been interested in doing. Were QR to join Star Alliance, perhaps they could do a joint venture where AC flies to Doha and hands off traffic for destinations throughout the Middle East and subcontinent. But this is sheer speculation on my part.

In the meantime, I don't believe AC has a place to fly these planes during the winter schedule. They would be expensive to operate in place of a 763 or A-330 aircraft. AC is very focussed right now of improving a weak profitability picture and is not going to dive into any winter schedule experiments that might deepen the usual Q4-Q1 losses. Next summer might be a different story.

[Edited 2007-08-18 20:19:51]
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4951
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 44):
AC is very focussed right now of improving a weak profitability picture and is not going to dive into any winter schedule experiments that might deepen the usual Q4-Q1 losses

This is a change of heart from years past !
 
sebring
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Aad665 (Reply 43):
Or to speed up XM project?

Flying a 345 in place of a 767 will only add to the costs of the project. That said, the plan is to finish the 767 XM work by next June at the latest.
 
boeing764
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:24 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:39 am

Why has Air Canada reverted back to the A340-300 on the Vancouver to Tokyo (flight 003/004) route? The 777-300ER started operating it at the beginning of July but for the past couple of weeks it's been A340s. Is it because the 777-300ER are flying Calgary to Heathrow now?
From Dr. King's America to Nelson Mandela's Africa, the journey of equality moves on.
 
sebring
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting Boeing764 (Reply 47):
Why has Air Canada reverted back to the A340-300 on the Vancouver to Tokyo (flight 003/004) route? The 777-300ER started operating it at the beginning of July but for the past couple of weeks it's been A340s. Is it because the 777-300ER are flying Calgary to Heathrow now?

There are a variety of reasons, some competitive, some driven by training requirements and some driven by opportunity. The bottom line, however, is that by next Feb. 1, YYZ-NRT will be all 777 and by April 1, so will YVR-NRT. By next summer, all the 340 flying will be replaced by 777s and you will only see a couple of Pacific routes using XM 763s.
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4951
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Where Are AC's 345s?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 46):
That said, the plan is to finish the 767 XM work by next June at the latest.

Please refresh my memory; how many are to be converted ?

Who is online