dl767captain
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Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:59 am

why is it that AA decided to join oneworld, they are the only US carrier in that alliance, it seems like they would have gone with star alliance to have a couple US carriers to work with.
 
aaexp
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting DL767captain (Thread starter):
AA decided to join oneworld

AA did not join OW, they founded it.
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:01 am

When you're the only game in the country ... you just have yourself to worry about.
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EGBJ
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:05 am

Oneworld was launched in 1998 when American Airlines, British Airways, Canadian Airlines, Cathay Pacific and Qantas Airways set it up. In other words they didnt join Oneworld as such...

 Smile
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:11 am

Remember that until about 5 years ago, Skyteam just had DL (KLM-AF Merger brought CO and NW) and Star just had UA... CO, NW, KLM had there 3 way... and US and HP were on their own....
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bmacleod
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:19 am

At the time, Oneworld was the only other airline alliance besides Star which already had a U.S. carrier - UA.
They were also delveloping a close relationship with BA so they decided to create an alliance along with four other carriers.
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BrianDromey
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:19 am

None of the alliances had more than one founding member in the US.

oneworld - American Airlines
Star Alliance - United Airlines
Sky Team - Delta Airlines.

It was only because of proposed mergers or strong relationships between carriers that other carriers have joined that alliance.

US was to merge with United, but this never took off - Ive forgotten why, but its *A membership comes from that.

KL was merged with AF, so NW followed its trans-atlantic partner into skyTeam. Continental was already close to NW, and together with DL the three formed a strong North American alliance within the larger skyTeam group.

So, AA did not go "with" oneworld, but founded it. Just as UA and DL did with their respective alliances. Now, how the founding members choose each other is another story!

Brian.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):
but this never took off - Ive forgotten why

...something about the DOJ?  Wink
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:35 am

CO, NW, and KLM initially proposed a fourth alliance known as the "Wings Alliance". Alitalia was slated to join the Wings Alliance, but instead chose to join SkyTeam. Malaysian Airlines and Air Europa also considered joining the Wings Alliance. All of this never happened. Delta began to codeshare with NW and CO, which was the first nail in the coffin for the Wings Alliance. Before Air France and KLM merged, KLM considered joining either SkyTeam or Oneworld. They even considered ending their alliance with NW. When KLM was bought out by Air France, that was the main driving force into bringing KLM into SkyTeam and the final nail in the coffin for the Wings Alliance.
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ClassicLover
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting DL767captain (Thread starter):
why is it that AA decided to join oneworld, they are the only US carrier in that alliance, it seems like they would have gone with star alliance to have a couple US carriers to work with.

oneworld markets itself to the premium business traveller - and arguably AA has the best product of all the US airlines, and continues to do so. Not to mention they are the biggest airline in the world
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LHR777
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:32 am

Another interesting fact - OneWorld carriers are more profitable than all the Star Alliance and SkyTeam carriers combined...

[Edited 2007-08-18 21:33:27]
 
ssides
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
oneworld markets itself to the premium business traveller - and arguably AA has the best product of all the US airlines, and continues to do so. Not to mention they are the biggest airline in the world

Agreed -- oneworld has done a great job of catching up with Star Alliance in terms of catering to the business traveler. I personally think they're the best alliance, but sure wish that SQ was in oneworld rather than Star!
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ClassicLover
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 10):
Another interesting fact - OneWorld carriers are more profitable than all the Star Alliance and SkyTeam carriers combined...

Absolutely... rather than focussing on growing from 2001-2004, they focussed on working together to get through the bad times. Hence, lots of profits, AA the only legacy not to go BK, and so on... an example of this was QF taking AA 738s (in AA config!) from Jan 2002.
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bobnwa
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
They even considered ending their alliance with NW.

Please give any info to back that statement up. Let me just say that those intimately involved with NW/KL alliance, don't know anything about it.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13):
Please give any info to back that statement up. Let me just say that those intimately involved with NW/KL alliance, don't know anything about it.

NW Says Alliance With KLM May Come To An End - Aug 6, 2003
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Viscount724
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 10):
Another interesting fact - OneWorld carriers are more profitable than all the Star Alliance and SkyTeam carriers combined...

And no Oneworld carriers have been forced to file for bankruptcy, unlike several Star and SkyTeam members.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
And no Oneworld carriers have been forced to file for bankruptcy, unlike several Star and SkyTeam members.

Canadian Airlines sure came close, and they ended getting bought out because of their bad finances.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:07 am

SQ could have easily been a part of Skyteam had it been (Skyteam) around at the time. They were very cozy with Delta for years, although I can't recall specifics that led them to gravitate towards UA and Star. Obviously some of the minor players in the various alliances have changed directions over the years, but I do agree that from top to bottom, oneworld has the best product, and my airline of preference is Delta.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 16):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
And no Oneworld carriers have been forced to file for bankruptcy, unlike several Star and SkyTeam members.

Canadian Airlines sure came close, and they ended getting bought out because of their bad finances.

Yes you're right. I was only thinking of current members of the various alliances.
 
UAL747
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:32 am

I think that The Star Alliance has become too big IMHO. Their route system overlaps so much that pretty much any flight within their system is a codeshare. I guess it's good for frequent flyers, but how do you delegate which person will fly on what airline and what particular route when you have all these airlines flying to the same place? And how do you mark the pricing in such an alliancem, with so many over-lapping route structures? I mean, heck, you could book your ticket on United.com from JFK-BKK and end up flying Lufthansa to Frankfurt, Singapore Airlines to Singapore, and Thai Airways to BKK. Or they could just put you on the Thai A345 flight nonstop, or they could make you fly JFK-PHL-LAS on US then transfer you to a United flight to OAK and make you take a train to SFO and fly you out on ANA to NRT then only to switch you to SQ to SIN and then Thai to BKK.

I mean at least AA/BA got it right when they stopped doing codeshares (if they ever did) on transatlantic flights to and from the US-UK.

UAL
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HPAEAA
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 19):
I mean at least AA/BA got it right when they stopped doing codeshares (if they ever did) on transatlantic flights to and from the US-UK.

umm.. that wasn't by choice... they couldn't get the DOT approval since they were 2 of the 4 carriers into LHR..
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jacobin777
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 19):
I think that The Star Alliance has become too big IMHO. Their route system overlaps so much that pretty much any flight within their system is a codeshare. I guess it's good for frequent flyers, but how do you delegate which person will fly on what airline and what particular route when you have all these airlines flying to the same place? And how do you mark the pricing in such an alliancem, with so many over-lapping route structures? I mean, heck, you could book your ticket on United.com from JFK-BKK and end up flying Lufthansa to Frankfurt, Singapore Airlines to Singapore, and Thai Airways to BKK. Or they could just put you on the Thai A345 flight nonstop, or they could make you fly JFK-PHL-LAS on US then transfer you to a United flight to OAK and make you take a train to SFO and fly you out on ANA to NRT then only to switch you to SQ to SIN and then Thai to BKK.

...some of its alleviated by such things such as "revenue sharing" which UA/LH does on its TATL ops. Once AA/BA get "ati", I wouldn't be surprised if we see something along the lines with them. I think it would help both on certain routes....while it obviously wouldn't help on other routes.
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elmothehobo
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 19):
I mean at least AA/BA got it right when they stopped doing codeshares (if they ever did) on transatlantic flights to and from the US-UK.

Actually American and British Airways would love to codeshare on each other's flights across the Altantic. It's the DoJ that is so opposed to it.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
Once AA/BA get "ati", I wouldn't be surprised if we see something along the lines with them. I think it would help both on certain routes....while it obviously wouldn't help on other routes.

If AA/BA get ATI, I doubt that revenue sharing will be permitted on many, if any routes. In particular - DFW/ORD/NYC/LAX/MIA-London will be restricted in terms of AA/BA collaboration. Delta/Air France's Anti-Trust Immunity did not cover all routes, as there were restrictions on how much collaboration was allowed on some key routes, including (but not limited to) CDG-ATL/NYC/CVG.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:20 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 19):
or they could make you fly JFK-PHL-LAS on US then transfer you to a United flight to OAK and make you take a train to SFO and fly you out on ANA to NRT then only to switch you to SQ to SIN and then Thai to BKK.

FYI, US Airways does not fly JFK-PHL, and UA doesn't fly LAS-OAK.
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ELTENELEVEN
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Thread starter):

because they wanted to
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jacobin777
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 22):
If AA/BA get ATI, I doubt that revenue sharing will be permitted on many, if any routes. In particular - DFW/ORD/NYC/LAX/MIA-London will be restricted in terms of AA/BA collaboration. Delta/Air France's Anti-Trust Immunity did not cover all routes, as there were restrictions on how much collaboration was allowed on some key routes, including (but not limited to) CDG-ATL/NYC/CVG.

..hence why I stated "certain routes"..... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25):
..hence why I stated "certain routes"..... 

Understood. I was just nit picking. The only routes I could see AA/BA be allowed to codeshare on are their non-London-USA, as well as RDU/PHL/BWI/IAD/DTW/IAH/DEN/PHX/SEA-LHR.

Beyond that, AA/BA dominate the rest of the markets.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
and arguably AA has the best product of all the US airlines

Thats a definaite "arguably".

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 22):
Actually American and British Airways would love to codeshare on each other's flights across the Altantic. It's the DoJ that is so opposed to it.

 checkmark 
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 22):
Actually American and British Airways would love to codeshare on each other's flights across the Altantic. It's the DoJ that is so opposed to it.

Actually, AA/BA do codeshare over the Atlantic. Their voluntary avoidance to codeshares is limited to flights in/out of LHR. BA's JFK-MAN flight is codeshared as AA6680.
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nyc2theworld
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):
Their voluntary avoidance to codeshares is limited to flights in/out of LHR

If you call the DOT preventing them from doing such "voluntary". As has been stated many times, AA/BA do not code share or even allow Frequent Flyer milage accrual for each other across the Atlantic to LHR because of the combined market share they have due to bermuda 2.

You can be rest assured though as soon as open skies goes into operating effect, they will apply for ATI and every US airline will be all up in arms about it. But, they will get ATI.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting NYC2theworld (Reply 29):
If you call the DOT preventing them from doing such "voluntary".

It most certainly is voluntary. Point to any decree from either side of the pond which prohibits a single codeshared flight on behalf of BA or AA between them.
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jacobin777
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25):
..hence why I stated "certain routes".....

Understood. I was just nit picking. The only routes I could see AA/BA be allowed to codeshare on are their non-London-USA, as well as RDU/PHL/BWI/IAD/DTW/IAH/DEN/PHX/SEA-LHR.

Beyond that, AA/BA dominate the rest of the markets.

...I would say there are other markets however, such as JFK-MAN, MAN-ORD....one of BD's most profitable route is ORD-MAN....of which 80-90% is actually connecting pax (UK-aviation data)......the codeshare with UA hub @ ORD is very effective.....

Quoting NYC2theworld (Reply 29):

If you call the DOT preventing them from doing such "voluntary". As has been stated many times, AA/BA do not code share or even allow Frequent Flyer milage accrual for each other across the Atlantic to LHR because of the combined market share they have due to bermuda 2.

...IIRC, one could technically get miles by flying Canada-London.... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 30):
It most certainly is voluntary. Point to any decree from either side of the pond which prohibits a single codeshared flight on behalf of BA or AA between them.

You are right, there is no decree preventing transatlantic codesharing, there was, however, a decree that prevented airlines from countries that didn't have open skies with each other from getting Anti Trust Immunity.

The last time AA/BA applied for ATI in 2001, the Department of Justice and the authorities in the UK gave conditional approval - first AA/BA needed to give up 17 slots at Heathrow (equivilent to American Airlines' entire Heathrow operation), and open skies needed to be in place between the UK and the US.

AA/BA balked, as there was no way they were going to simply give up American's entire operation, nor did they have any control over whether or not there would be US/UK open skies.

So yes, it is voluntary in the sense that they didn't keep pushing. IMO the penalty was so steep the DoT must have done it to have them say no.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 31):
...IIRC, one could technically get miles by flying Canada-London.... 

Yup.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 32):
The last time AA/BA applied for ATI in 2001, the Department of Justice and the authorities in the UK gave conditional approval - first AA/BA needed to give up 17 slots at Heathrow (equivilent to American Airlines' entire Heathrow operation), and open skies needed to be in place between the UK and the US.

That is correct. There's a definitive thread on this entire subject either on here or at flyertalk.com regarding all the specifics. The common misunderstanding is that BA/AA codesharing is formally prohibited. If it were, AA6680 would be in violation of that decree, and obviously, it's not.  Wink
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nyc2theworld
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RE: Why Did AA Go With Oneworld?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:28 am

Which is why I said LHR only... Smile

Quoting NYC2theworld (Reply 29):
As has been stated many times, AA/BA do not code share or even allow Frequent Flyer milage accrual for each other across the Atlantic to LHR because of the combined market share they have due to bermuda 2.

They would rather keep their distinct operations instead of give up slots (and thus routes) at LHR in order to get ATI and thus code-share. However, outside of LHR they do codeshare as pointed above.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.

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