COSAMICLE
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:06 am

DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:00 am

In reading the fine print on Delta's skymiles earnings page (http://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_to_get_miles/earning_miles_partners/airline_partners/), I noted that all flights on partner airlines to Tehran, Damascus, and Havana are excluded from the skymiles program. I can understand Havana, I suppose, as there is a US travel ban there, but Tehran and Damascus are not banned. As for other US SkyTeam members, Continental and Northwest have no such restrictions. Any idea why Delta has them?
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:14 am

i guess they really love America down there in ATL.

that is definitely strange. i'm not sure you could get miles for a trip to HAV... since you'd find yourself fined/imprisoned if US authorities found out that you'd been there (at least if you are a US citizen). the others, I really don't know. that's very strange. do any other US airlines have similar policies, outside of skyteam?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting COSAMICLE (Thread starter):
I can understand Havana, I suppose, as there is a US travel ban there

I would expect some non-US citizens on DL FF program, these ones wouldn't have restrictions to fy to HAV
744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
 
COSAMICLE
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:06 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:23 am

I just checked United, American, and US Airways and none of those airlines mention markets in which you cannot accrue miles (except within Sweden and Norway, which apparently is prohibited by Swedish law; you learn something new every day).
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
i'm not sure you could get miles for a trip to HAV... since you'd find yourself fined/imprisoned if US authorities found out that you'd been there (at least if you are a US citizen).

AF flies CDG-HAV, and DL SkyMiles members can earn miles on AF flights. Not sure about this one, however. Same with AA miles on MX, MX flies MEX-HAV also.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
COSAMICLE
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:06 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 6):
AF flies CDG-HAV, and DL SkyMiles members can earn miles on AF flights.



I guess this goes for most flights. A footnote from Delta's earning miles site states:

3Air France:
Mileage may be earned on Air France-coded flights operated by Air France or any SkyTeam partner. Mileage credit is not applicable for fares booked in L, N, O, G, or X class, for Air France travel via boat/ferry service, or for flights to/from Havana, Cuba; Tehran, Iran; or Damascus, Syria.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting COSAMICLE (Reply 5):
I just checked United,

UA MP wont award miles to Cuba. Check flyertalk and can see older postings about folks whom flew AC or TA and failed to get credit.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2769
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:34 pm

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:31 am

There are restrictions on U.S. companies doing business in those countries. Giving mileage credit for flights to those countries might seem like a stretch, but my guess is that they are just covering themselves in order to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I wouldn't read any political leanings into this--it's more likely just the work of a careful in-house (or outside) counsel.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:33 am

AA, DL, CO, MQ, and probably others operate special flights to Cuba occasionally, I would not imagine miles are available for those flights.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 7):
There are restrictions on U.S. companies doing business in those countries. Giving mileage credit for flights to those countries might seem like a stretch, but my guess is that they are just covering themselves in order to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I wouldn't read any political leanings into this--it's more likely just the work of a careful in-house (or outside) counsel.
??

Yup. There are economic sanctions in place by the USA government against these countries. Giving miles for these flights could be construed by some as doing business with the countries in question.

The other USA airlines seem to just have a more general "catch-all" disclaimer to the effect the some "special condition routes" may not be eligible, without specific statement of the affected routes.

[Edited 2007-08-20 20:29:10]
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 20987
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:35 am

What a stupid rule. If you are a US Citizen then thats fine but if you are a member of the Skymiles or Mileage Plus based in Europe then EU rules should apply and people flying AF or AC to Cuba should get miles.
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting COSAMICLE (Thread starter):
In reading the fine print on Delta's skymiles earnings page (http://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_to_get_miles/earning_miles_partners/airline_partners/), I noted that all flights on partner airlines to Tehran, Damascus, and Havana are excluded from the skymiles program.

It is amazing how the rules in the US apply to certain people and companies.. When it comes to air travel I can assure you that Delta Air Lines code-shares on the Los Angeles to Paris flight operated by Air France, where people connect to an Air France flight that Delta Air Lines does not code share on to Tehran.

The same from NWA code-sharing on the Los Angeles to Amsterdam flight that is operated by KLM, and the KLM service from AMS-THR that NWA does not share a code with.

Does Delta not sell the ticket to the person that calls them?

Does NWA not sell the ticket to the person that calls them?

Some how people travel from the USA to Iran. There is a demand, yet will still continue with government hands to dictate certain restrictions telling the airlines and us as Americans where we can and cannot fly to.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
COSAMICLE
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:06 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 9):
The other USA airlines seem to just have a more general "catch-all" disclaimer to the effect the some "special condition routes" may not be eligible, without specific statement of the affected routes.

Maybe, but I have received miles and EQMs with OnePass for both KLM and Air France operated flights to DAM since the US sanctions. Anyway, I didn't want to start a political debate, and I apologize if anyone has taken offense at responses. I noticed a few of them have been deleted.
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):
Some how people travel from the USA to Iran. There is a demand, yet will still continue with government hands to dictate certain restrictions telling the airlines and us as Americans where we can and cannot fly to.

If I'm not mistaken, there is not a travel restriction in place to Iran quite like to Cuba, in that it's not criminal for an American to go to Iran, you just can't buy the ticket in the states, or some such. I've known people who've flown to Iran, just buying their tickets in DXB and FRA.... so it seems possible. Then again, I know a good number of Americans who have gone to Cuba too...
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
What a stupid rule. If you are a US Citizen then thats fine but if you are a member of the Skymiles or Mileage Plus based in Europe then EU rules should apply and people flying AF or AC to Cuba should get miles.

A USA corporation is considered a USA citizen and as such is required to follow USA laws, including any USA sanctions against doing commercial business with a sanctioned foreign government. The citizenship of the passenger in this case makes no legal difference to the USA company.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):
It is amazing how the rules in the US apply to certain people and companies.. When it comes to air travel I can assure you that Delta Air Lines code-shares on the Los Angeles to Paris flight operated by Air France, where people connect to an Air France flight that Delta Air Lines does not code share on to Tehran.

The same from NWA code-sharing on the Los Angeles to Amsterdam flight that is operated by KLM, and the KLM service from AMS-THR that NWA does not share a code with.

Does Delta not sell the ticket to the person that calls them?

Does NWA not sell the ticket to the person that calls them?

Some how people travel from the USA to Iran. There is a demand, yet will still continue with government hands to dictate certain restrictions telling the airlines and us as Americans where we can and cannot fly to.

I do not believe that NWA or DL will sell you a ticket to Tehran. You would have to buy the ticket from a foreign carrier.

The USA does not prohibit travel to and from Iran and Syria, only certain commercial transactions, apparently including air travel.

Similar economic sanctions were used by governments around the world to persuade South Africa to end aparthide.

The only travel restriction I know of is the Cuba policy initially instituted under the Kennedy administration.

[Edited 2007-08-20 21:45:55]
 
COSAMICLE
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:06 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
The USA does not prohibit travel to and from Iran and Syria, only certain commercial transactions, apparently including air travel.

Not sure about Tehran, but nwa.com will sell tix to DAM.
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
What a stupid rule. If you are a US Citizen then thats fine but if you are a member of the Skymiles or Mileage Plus based in Europe then EU rules should apply and people flying AF or AC to Cuba should get miles.

I don't see this as being much of an issue, as a French citizen is very unlikely to want to take their SkyTeam miles on a DL account anyway. It's a little more likely that a Canadian might want to accumulate Star Alliance miles on a UA account instead of AC, but I'd guess that's still pretty rare.
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
I do not believe that NWA or DL will sell you a ticket to Tehran.

I was wondering as on my last KLM flight from LAX-AMS there was a good number of people travelling onward to Tehran, and the people I am talking about all lived in Los Angeles, and were only going to visit family in Tehran. Arent all KLM transactions in the states handled by Northwest Airlines? When you go online in every other country has its own website, in the US we have to deal with NWA..  Sad



-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
flyingcat
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:33 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:50 am

I wonder if one could earn miles on the KE flight to FNJ?

[Edited 2007-08-20 22:03:21]
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:58 am

I think the issue might be even more complicated, Travelocity (A USA company based in Texas) will at least price out tickets to THR or DAM (I didn't try to buy one).

Unless someone have the energy to peruse all the government regulations on this one (I don't), I don't think a difinitive answer is easily found as to the level of travel restrictions between USA companies and Iran or Syria. I know there are export restrictions on alot of technology items, but I do not know the extent of other commercial restrictions for USA citizens.
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting COSAMICLE (Reply 3):
I just checked United, American, and US Airways and none of those airlines mention markets in which you cannot accrue miles (except within Sweden and Norway, which apparently is prohibited by Swedish law; you learn something new every day).

Within the Earning Miles section of those AA partners that fly to Cuba (IB, LA and MX), the AA web-site states:
"Flights to/from Cuba are not eligible for mileage accrual or redemption."
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:39 am

I found the State department regs overview on the Iran sanctions.

http://treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/iran/iran.pdf

http://treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/iran/iran.shtml

I think the Travelocity website would have a hiccup before actually letting you buy a ticket to THR.

Looks like travel is allowed to Iran by USA citizens. The only things allowed to be imported from Iran to the USA seems to be rugs, dates, and caviar. USA airlines are allowed to pay Iran for overflight rights as well. Pretty much all other commercial transactions seem to be proscribed.

While travel to Syria is also allowed, the Syrian sanctions seem less clear with respect to allowable transactions.

http://treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/syria/syria.shtml
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
A USA corporation is considered a USA citizen and as such is required to follow USA laws, including any USA sanctions against doing commercial business with a sanctioned foreign government.

Your statement is so strong that leads me to believe other carriers like AA, CO, NW are breaking USA laws.

I really don't think so, my guess is they're trying to cover their ass just in case.
744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
that is definitely strange. i'm not sure you could get miles for a trip to HAV... since you'd find yourself fined/imprisoned if US authorities found out that you'd been there (at least if you are a US citizen).

thats wierd cause doesn delta fly there?
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 22):
Your statement is so strong that leads me to believe other carriers like AA, CO, NW are breaking USA laws.
.

I stand by my statement. USA companies are considered citizens of the USA and required to follow USA laws, including any sanctions imposed by the USA government. There is no doubt about that statements truth. The only question is to the extent of the USA's sanctions against each of the individual foreign governments. I don't know why you are "led to believe" that other carriers are breaking any laws.

The post above yours is has links to the State Department documents I found.
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 24):
I don't know why you are "led to believe" that other carriers are breaking any laws.

Because none of the other carriers have such restricions on miles awarding.
744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 18):
I wonder if one could earn miles on the KE flight to FNJ?

Highly doubtful. KE, and OZ for that matter, rarely fly any VFR charter to FNJ, if not at all, and even if they do, I highly doubt you can get miles for that flight.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:50 am

There are 2m Iranians in LA: "Irangeles". And tonnes of travel between the US and Iran every day. Most of the pax on LH from THR to FRA connect straight onto LA. Same with AF via CDG. Those Iranair 747s that fly into LHR three days a week empty into Virgin Atlantic to NY and LA. IR and VS have a booming interline agreement. I've got two Iranian visas in my passport and I think the reason US immigration never question me about it is the sheer volume of traffic between the two countries (US and Iran) make it a complete non-event. There are deep links between Iran and US and A, including the fact that Iran is the most pro-American country I've ever been to. Delta are idiots. I think they're the worst airline in the world so I avoid them like the plague anyway, but here's another reason.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 8):
I would not imagine miles are available for those flights.

You can't earn miles on any of those carrier's charters, whether or not it goes to Cuba.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 27):

Definitely true. And with all the Angelinas going to Iran to get their cheap cosmetic surgery done, it's a surprise there isn't a direct "charter" yet.

Also, there are scheduled flights between JFK, MIA and LAX to Cuba. LTU offered flights from LAX to Havana for a few seasons. One must have the appropriate paperwork to use these flights.
 
RyanAFAMSP
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, S

Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:18 pm

Well I guess if the inferior inflight meal service, paying for drinks in coach (other than with the primary meal service), outdated inflight entertainment, and absence of a new generation of aircraft didn't convince people, the draconian frequent flyer rules will convince people to take the European carriers when travelling on the Atlantic and beyond! Though Delta has made some commendable improvements in the last year, it seems like the imperative for its managers and those at the other carriers on this side of the pond is to turn off the Fox news, put away the war games, and figure out how to get a competitive product with AF and BA across the pond.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 27):
There are 2m Iranians in LA: "Irangeles".

There aren't nearly that many Persians here. Where are you getting that number from? There are quite a lot (largest population outside iran), but not 2 million, as the overall population is only 4 million, the majority now hispanic. If you are talking about the whole LA basin, it's still not close to 2 million.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
SpdBrdConcorde
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:33 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting A380US (Reply 23):
thats wierd cause doesn delta fly there?

The last time DL flew in Cuba was back in the 50's.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
that is definitely strange. i'm not sure you could get miles for a trip to HAV... since you'd find yourself fined/imprisoned if US authorities found out that you'd been there (at least if you are a US citizen).

There is no law that says you will be imprisoned if you go to Cuba. In fact, there is no law that even says you cannot visit Cuba. But because of sanctions, you just can't SPEND MONEY in said country. Thats the kicker. No Cuban cigars for you. lol

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 8):
AA, DL, CO, MQ, and probably others operate special flights to Cuba occasionally, I would not imagine miles are available for those flights.

Thats probably what the fine print was for, the charter flights for Cuban refugee visits and military charters to Gitmo.
One can't accrue miles on a charter.
 
csavel
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, S

Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:50 am

There are no restrictions on Americans travelling anywhere. Technically, Americans can't spend money in Cuba or on Cuban products or "cause money to be spent." I take that to mean, I can't have my Canadian buddy take me to Cuba with him even if he pays for everything because I am "causing money to be spent." Of course that basically means with out permission, American's can't legally go to Cuba. There aren't these kinds of restrictions (yet) for Syria or Iran, although there are some. I don't think Iranair or Syrianair can fly to the US. I don't know if American companies can book travel to those countries, but I do know that Americans can go there and spend money.

PS the Anti-Cuban restrictions are so severe and so bizarre that not only can't I bring back Cuban cigars from Europe or Canada, I'd be technically breaking the embargo if I bought a Cohiba and smoked it in my hotel room in Montreal - never importing squat to the US, just because I'm an American and the cigar is Cuban.

BS you say? Read on. (NOTE PDF File)


PS, those sanctions must surely be working now, after, um, forty five years.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: DL Does Not Award Miles For Flights To Iran, Syria

Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:56 am

Can you even book tickets to THR on any US airline website? I've done some "hypothetical" reservations before, and when you try and book US-THR, it says that there are no available flights. But if you book on LH for example, I "think" it does let you book your entire flight from the US to Iran.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, alfa164, Amiga500, angelopga, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], DC2002, dk44, Google Adsense [Bot], harrisair, jake112, KarelXWB, KLA389, N14AZ, Noshow, PacificBeach88, qf15, rbrunner, solnabo, SPEEDJACK, starbucks, tvh, UltraAmps, VFRonTop, VirginFlyer, xiaotung, Yahoo [Bot] and 260 guests