TWFirst
Topic Author
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:16 am

Yes, this has been discussed before.... but with Anderson being named DL CEO, the possibility becomes more credible IMO. Usually, speculation on the hypothetical doesn't interest me... this one is intriguing though.

IMO, under a fully merged DL/NW scenario, MEM and CVG dehubbed, MSP, DTW, NRT, ATL, JFK, LGA Shuttle, SLC, LAX stay, although MSP and especially DTW are affected... how, not sure.

Obviously, DL name stays.

RE: fleet.... who knows. 757s stay? MDs go? 319/320s or 737s? 787s replace 767s? 777s replace 747s?

OR....do NW and DL operate more closely yet still separately, including separate brands, under one holding company... a la AF-KL?


Thoughts?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:48 am

DL's strength to Europe and Latin America merged with NW's dominance in the far east make this seem like a good idea on paper. However, labor and disimilar fleets could the make the integration very difficult. Stay tuned, I guess.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
DFWEagle
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:12 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
Obviously, DL name stays.



Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
OR....do NW and DL operate more closely yet still separately, including separate brands, under one holding company... a la AF-KL?

I’m not too sure that a combined DL/NW would be so hasty to get rid of the Northwest Airlines brand.

Northwest Airlines carries significantly more Japanese passengers than US passengers on its Asian route network, with Tokyo used as the focal point. On some NW Asian routes, as much as 90% of the traffic is Japanese.

The Northwest Airlines brand is very well known in Japan, on the same level as ANA and JAL in fact. I lived in Japan and brand loyalty is much more of a factor there than it is in the USA.

The Delta name is not well known at all in Japan, and many of those that do recognise the name only associate it with the large amount of bad press that Delta received in Japan during the Portland hub days. (Many Japanese visitors were deported unfairly leading most travel agents to strongly advise against travel on Delta).

Of course I’m not suggesting the whole company would be branded Northwest, since in the rest of the world, Delta has a much stronger brand identity. However, the NW name may be kept across the pacific, at least for routes to Japan and the Philippines.
Ryan / HKG
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:10 am

I just asked this in the other thread. I was wondering whether it would be more of an AF/KL thing, or would the two airlines actually be merged together? Hopefully the DL name doesn't die, as DL is my favorite and the airline I hope to fly for one day. Also, would a merger with NW affect DL insofar as NW getting a lot of bad press this summer? I REALLY hope the DL name sticks around, nothing against NW, but DL is my airline and I'd hate to see it go.
 
davidlc3
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:30 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:04 am

Considering the fact that some NWA folks are still arguing over the Republic/NWA merger....I can just imagine what they would do if the south rose again!  Smile
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 2):
The Delta name is not well known at all in Japan, and many of those that do recognise the name only associate it with the large amount of bad press that Delta received in Japan during the Portland hub days. (Many Japanese visitors were deported unfairly leading most travel agents to strongly advise against travel on Delta).

In the interest of enlightenment not argument, how was that Delta's fault?

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1875
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:11 am

I could see them maybe doing a KLM/Air France thing where they keep the brands separate but run under the same company. They could consolidate check in ticket counters at airports as well as ramp work. Could be interestng....
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:24 am



Why do we keep having threads like this over and over? We are beating a dead horse with a stick on this same issue.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:34 am

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 2):
Northwest Airlines carries significantly more Japanese passengers than US passengers on its Asian route network, with Tokyo used as the focal point. On some NW Asian routes, as much as 90% of the traffic is Japanese

right and NW has a huge name in Europe wait no they don't and NW in Latin American wait no and DL in Asia was a name till PDX closed.

Fleet wise i bet if the DL name stays which it will and the HQ in ATL which it will the scarebuses are out new boeing jets are in(along with the fact Boeing is on DLs bored and the hole we own you from saving our asses from US)

Hubs wise ATL,MSP,DTW,JFK,SLC and NRT stay (and maybe LAX)
FCs CVG(maybe) MEM(maybe) BOS,SEA,LGA,DCA,MCO
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
dl767captain
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:51 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):

If you hate these threads so much then why do you read them?

Personally I see united and delta as a better merger, united is already interested in a merger and delta might not like NWs almost exclusive airbus fleet, if UA and DL then delta still gets the Asian routes, then I could see CO and NW merge (I'm sure the golden share would make things easier) I personally don't like NW and don't want to see them merge. I believe the best would be UA and DL, NW and US, and CO and AA( but that may be too strong of a Europe presence) I guess we willjust have to see who merges first
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 9):
Personally I see united and delta as a better merger, united is already interested in a merger and delta might not like NWs almost exclusive airbus fleet, if UA and DL then delta still gets the Asian routes, then I could see CO and NW merge (I'm sure the golden share would make things easier) I personally don't like NW and don't want to see them merge. I believe the best would be UA and DL, NW and US, and CO and AA( but that may be too strong of a Europe presence) I guess we willjust have to see who merges first

then you would have to change your name to UA767Captain........DL is lookin to buy not be bought or merge this is where a struggling NW comes in.........just cause they have different fleets means nothing....DL could get Boeing to help out with the money part of the merger(US and HP with scarebus) and DL would pay them back by replacing the A32X and A330s with 737s,777s,and 787s
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:04 pm

DL and NW are no more likely to merge now than they were 15 years ago. Anderson is NOT being brought in to orchestrate a merger. He was brought in because he has industry experience - and because he understands the DL culture and appears able and willing to work within it.

The shareholders/former creditors of both DL and NW - and every other airline that went through BK - want first and foremost to get their money out of the industry before any risky merging goes on. Consolidation may help the industry but there is absolutely no reason why current industry stockholders would support consolidation when the airlines are making money right now.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:05 pm

[/quote]

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 8):
right and NW has a huge name in Europe wait no they don't

With KLM they do.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 8):
Fleet wise i bet if the DL name stays which it will and the HQ in ATL which it will the scarebuses are out new boeing jets are in(along with the fact Boeing is on DLs bored and the hole we own you from saving our asses from US)


Although, the NW Airbus 320/319 fleet outnumbers delta's 737s fleet by almost double, 81 for DL(includes new 73Gs to be delivered), and 141 for NWA(a few left to be delivered). The A330s would probably be dumped for 787s. UA uses Boeing widebodies and (mostly) Airbus narrowbodies and seemingly has no trouble.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7068
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:10 pm

Are you serious? Two words describe a DL/NW merger; Shit storm. Very diverse fleets, management, etc. Only one thing makes sense: They both belong to Sky Team .

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 9):
If you hate these threads so much then why do you read them?

Because we get 2-3 merger threads a week and its nothing but endless speculation of 'what if's' no more, no less than that. Its getting kinda old. I really miss the A vs. B wars!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 12):
With KLM they do.

no KLM has the name NW just flys from a few places in the US to AMS then you fly KL

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 12):
Although, the NW Airbus 320/319 fleet outnumbers delta's 737s fleet by almost double, 81 for DL(includes new 73Gs to be delivered), and 141 for NWA(a few left to be delivered). The A330s would probably be dumped for 787s. UA uses Boeing widebodies and (mostly) Airbus narrowbodies and seemingly has no trouble.

but note that NW has started to sell there A319s(and or returning to the leaser) and scraping there A320s and DLs 737s are owned by DL and are only 4 years old(well the oldest). As for the A330s i think you are right that they will stay a while and be replaced with 787s and maybe some 2nd hand 772ERs.(are NW A330s owned or leased?)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:30 pm

I can tell you exactly what it would look like.

A complete clusterf*ck
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6090
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
DL and NW are no more likely to merge now than they were 15 years ago. Anderson is NOT being brought in to orchestrate a merger. He was brought in because he has industry experience - and because he understands the DL culture and appears able and willing to work within it.

WorldTraveler, I agree with you 100% I know many times I don't, but I actually do. You other Delta gang buddy SLCutt....has always been overzealous about predicting an DL take-over of NW. There is simply no reason for such and today's announcment means absolutely nothing new in that front.

They needed someone with C-suite airline experience - there are very few tested individuals out there today.

RIght now NW-DL-KL-AF are looking to expand their codesharing by getting anti-trust immunity. That is where the future of this relationship will go. A complete integration would be a complete nightmare that has little benefit in the end for anyone.

Sometimes the "friends with benefits" arrangement is much better than a "committed relationship".
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 5):
In the interest of enlightenment not argument, how was that Delta's fault?

It wasn't Delta's fault at all. Just bad circumstances. The city they chose to hub their Asian operations has over-zealous immigration officials. Once word got back to Japan about this, tourists chose to go through other non-Delta gateways. Bad luck on Delta's part.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
RIght now NW-DL-KL-AF are looking to expand their codesharing by getting anti-trust immunity. That is where the future of this relationship will go. A complete integration would be a complete nightmare that has little benefit in the end for anyone.

 checkmark 

I could *POSSIBLY* see a buyout like the AF-KL one, where some of the corporate-level stuff is merged, but for the most part the airline is run as two separate entities. I definitely wouldn't bet the farm on it though.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
Sometimes the "friends with benefits" arrangement is much better than a "committed relationship".

Sometimes? Big grin
 
toltommy
Posts: 2463
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
RIght now NW-DL-KL-AF are looking to expand their codesharing by getting anti-trust immunity. That is where the future of this relationship will go. A complete integration would be a complete nightmare that has little benefit in the end for anyone.

Theres our winner....

I think an antitrust agreement with separate operating certs is cheaper to do. If a merger is going to happen, the name with the most to offer in revenue will survive. My gut says thats the NW pacific network, but i have nothing to verify that on.....
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5026
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
Obviously, DL name stays.

If the DL name stays then the Asia routes go, IIRC if the Northwest name ever dies, those slots in Asia are up for grabs, not just transferred.
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
RIght now NW-DL-KL-AF are looking to expand their codesharing by getting anti-trust immunity. That is where the future of this relationship will go. A complete integration would be a complete nightmare that has little benefit in the end for anyone.

Sometimes the "friends with benefits" arrangement is much better than a "committed relationship".

I agree. Now is not the time for a merger. If its to happen it will occur when a worse economic climate comes around. Then the benefits rationalization and consolidation that a merger brings about can be happen. Right now load factors and profits are good enough that a merger would only bring disadvantages. Wait two years and then we can discuss this again.

If a NW/DL merger were to occur I'd like to see them start afresh with a new identiy or possibly buy the PanAm brand from the dweebs who own it now. That way the stakeholders feel like they have a common identity and future rather than the bickering and animosity that comes from one corporation and its culture taking over another.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:57 pm

Oh lawdy, DC-9s with a widget again. Well I suppose thats better than being stuffed into one of the damn CRJ-200s for hours on end.

I still "dream" of a trilogy of CO/DL/NW and what a powerhouse THAT would be. Too bad the labor issues would be such a nightmare to work out, and the fleet! Imagine how long it would take to integrate everything! OY!

Oh well---fun speculation----however, as previously mentioned Anderson is not being brought on-board to work out a merger.
Grinstein needs to chill!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7068
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:10 pm

I think a CO/DL is better than a NW/DL ImperialEagle. Makes sense in a lot of ways. Fleet comonality except for the 80's, Hubs in LAX, NYC, ATL and IAH. This would work out better than a NW/DL crap storm merger.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
no KLM has the name NW just flys from a few places in the US to AMS then you fly KL

The majority of the passengers on NWA trans-atlantic originate in Europe. NWA must have a good recognition there, to enable them to pick NWA.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 20):
If the DL name stays then the Asia routes go, IIRC if the Northwest name ever dies, those slots in Asia are up for grabs, not just transferred.

Burnsie, that is not correct. The corporation owns the Japan rights and can do as it chooses with them. If you have proof the other way around I'd be pleased to see it.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
Obviously, DL name stays

All bets are off on that comment. The NW name has to stay to retain Asian routes.
AND..thats your opinion. I'm prurrty darn sure there are others.

safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 25):
The NW name has to stay to retain Asian routes.

Oh really? Just like the PanAm name stayed when United took over their Asian routes??

I never claimed that comment was anything other than my opinion... the whole premise of this thread is conjecture and speculation and discussion... I thought the use of "IMO" twice and the numerous question marks in the thread starter would have made that clear.


RE: Comment (WorldTraveler) referring to purpose of Richard Anderson's appointment.... I agree that he isn't being brought in specifically to orchestrate a merger... but I also believe it's naive to think he isn't going to give a fresh look at the possibility. A NW/DL merger in particular would be a nightmare IN MY OPINION (that's for you, Safe)... that's why I'm intrigued on how such a combination could possibly work. But I do believe it continues to be considered.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 9):
Personally I see united and delta as a better merger

You might be the only one. The DOJ would never let it get through.
 
paladin87
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:41 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 pm

I think most of you have forgotten about NWA unions. they would a major obstacle to any merger especially if DL would be the remaining entity . Also you would lose a enormous amount of Asian passengers as they are very loyal(as stated earlier) to the brand. JAL would love this merger.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 26):
Just like the PanAm name stayed when United took over their Asian routes??

That was then, this is now. The rules were slightly altered with the new"free skies to Japan" a few years ago.

safe
 cheerful 
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 29):
That was then, this is now. The rules were slightly altered with the new"free skies to Japan" a few years ago.

Do you have the new rules that say that the name Northwest has to stay with the Japan rights? As I have stated before the rights are Northwest's do do with as they please. If you think this changed, then give the source of the new rules.
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

Oy Veh! Just because a CEO from another airline comes in doesn't automatically mean a merger is in the works folks. If that's the case, Alan Mullaly may try to put wings and CFMs on the next Ford Taurus. Give the speculation a friggin rest already!
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 22):
CO/DL/NW

Could you imagine the union lawsuits on seniority list integration? It's mind boggling.

And, really... both companies just emerged from bankruptcy. Why on Earth would either one take such a chance on a merger venture at this point? The point of bankruptcy is to eliminate the debt, not immediately go BACK into debt. Sheesh.
 
AA757200
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:40 am

The fleet issues are not as substantial as most people in this post are making them out to be. Think of an AA like operation, where only certain aircraft fly out of certain hubs. Same situation would happen here, and the two fleets would not mix. The real question is standadrizing the interiors, and which airline's premium products would be used. On a merger this size, the fleet commanality issue is not the most relevant concern. I would be concerned about hub overlap and de-hubbing, and the beast that is the labor issues.

When the 9's go, a merged DL NW would likely buy boeing, but they won't arbitrarily buy boeing frames to replace Airbi that have an emmense amount of life left in them.

My 2 cents.
 
paladin87
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:41 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
but note that NW has started to sell there A319s(and or returning to the leaser) and scraping there A320s

Not all lessors agreed to lower their rates while NWA was in BK, those are probably the ones that went, also I only know of one 320 that has been scrapped, most likely the one that rolled into the ditch at LAS. Also NWA is scheduled to receive 2 319s and 5 320s next year. Also NWA is in talks with EMB and Canadair to replace the DC9s, WSJ reported that they will most likely order the 195s because NWA doesn't want to wait for the C-Series roll out in 2013.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 29):
That was then, this is now. The rules were slightly altered with the new"free skies to Japan" a few years ago.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 30):
Do you have the new rules that say that the name Northwest has to stay with the Japan rights? As I have stated before the rights are Northwest's do do with as they please. If you think this changed, then give the source of the new rules.

Here is the 1952 agreement as modified by the 1998 MOU between the USA and Japan.

The incumbant rights are transferrable by the USA government.

http://www.state.gov/e/eeb/rls/othr/63081.htm
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 35):
Here is the 1952 agreement as modified by the 1998 MOU between the USA and Japan.

The incumbant rights are transferrable by the USA government.

http://www.state.gov/e/eeb/rls/othr/...1.htm

Thank for providing that.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
Obviously, DL name stays

Why? Northwest Airlines is a name that is very well known accross the Pacific and in Europe.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 37):
Northwest Airlines is a name that is very well known accross the Pacific and in Europe.

In Asia yes...not sure I would agree with Europe. But more importantly, who has the better brand reputation in the US, Dl or NW? Have to go with DL on that one.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
no KLM has the name NW just flys from a few places in the US to AMS then you fly KL

What are you talking about? The last time I checked, NWA flies to LGA, FRA, CDG, AMS etc... Besides flights from the USA to AMS there is also India to AMS. Also whether you want to believe this or not, travel between Asia to the USA will be the main growth in International travel as far as the US airlines are concerned!  Yeah sure
 
paladin87
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:41 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 38):
In Asia yes...not sure I would agree with Europe



Quoting Positiverate (Reply 38):
Northwest Airlines is a name that is very well known across the Pacific and in Europe

Flysherwood is most likely right. Before deregulation international flights were given to the 3 main international carriers
PanAm,TWA and NWA. NWA has been in Europe longer, it once flew to Hamburg, Oslo, Dublin and other cities as well as the ones it currently serves. DL didn't become a presence in Europe until 1991 when it bought PanAm's Europe operation, and most of that has disappeared.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 18):
It wasn't Delta's fault at all. Just bad circumstances. The city they chose to hub their Asian operations has over-zealous immigration officials. Once word got back to Japan about this, tourists chose to go through other non-Delta gateways. Bad luck on Delta's part.

The reason that Delta's flights to Japan and Korea did not succeed through PDX has a little bit of something to do with overzealous immigration officers but not alot. Delta never had the fly-through rights at NRT, Kansai or Kimpo airport that NWA and United enjoy. Look at the PDX - NRT route on NWA. It is doing very well.
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting AirTran717 (Reply 31):
Oy Veh! Just because a CEO from another airline comes in doesn't automatically mean a merger is in the works folks. If that's the case, Alan Mullaly may try to put wings and CFMs on the next Ford Taurus. Give the speculation a friggin rest already!

You are comparing apples with oranges. Boeing and Ford never had and probably never will have any interest in merging. However, it has been established and acknowledged that NW and DL did indeed have preliminary merger talks in the near past. The fairly recent former NW CEO is now CEO at Delta... and you can't see how that leads many folks to contemplate the future of the relationship between the two companies??

And are you Jewish? If not, how about giving the kvetching a rest?

Quoting AirTran717 (Reply 32):
And, really... both companies just emerged from bankruptcy. Why on Earth would either one take such a chance on a merger venture at this point? The point of bankruptcy is to eliminate the debt, not immediately go BACK into debt. Sheesh.

That didn't stop HP & US did it? And by many success measures, that seems to be working.

(edited for typo)

[Edited 2007-08-22 20:17:50]
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 42):
That didn't stop HP & US did it?

That doesn't make sense, TWFirst. HP was never in bankrupcty when it acquired US. HP acquired US to save US.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:32 am

ALSO.... re: NW vs. DL brands. Come on folks.... it doesn't take a branding guru (and I'm not a guru but I am in travel marketing) to realize which brand has more global potential. Why do you think Northwest has been gradually migrating to the 'nwa' brand? Unless the combined entity fully adopted 'nwa' and dropped the Northwest moniker altogether (and even if that were to happen I'd still be dubious)... "Delta" has much greater potential for universal market/cultural adoption IN MY OPINION. Now, could that be screwed up if they continue to tinker with the brand identity 5 more times as they have over the last decade.... YES. But if Anderson can really make a difference and Delta comes to be associated with excellent customer service and a very competitive and strong product offering.. and they continue to reinforce what the brand stands for with consistent imagery... I believe they'll build some serious brand equity.

FYI, I love the new Delta ad campaign and positioning.... Delta = change. The double entendre is fabulous!
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 2):
The Delta name is not well known at all in Japan, and many of those that do recognise the name only associate it with the large amount of bad press that Delta received in Japan during the Portland hub days. (Many Japanese visitors were deported unfairly leading most travel agents to strongly advise against travel on Delta).

Deportation was not a Delta issue. It was an Immigration issue.

I too lived in Japan for a year while working for Delta. We had a very good reputation from what I recall.

You're right, the NWA brand is better known in Asia than Delta. But should the two companies merge, I think it would make the most sense to use the Delta trademark. Putting the name "Northwest" on a truly global company doesn't make sense to me.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 42):
You are comparing apples with oranges. Boeing and Ford never had and probably never will have any interest in merging. However, it has been established and acknowledged that NW and DL did indeed have preliminary merger talks in the near past. The fairly recent former NW CEO is now CEO at Delta... and you can't see how that leads many folks to contemplate the future of the relationship between the two companies??

And are you Jewish? If not, how about giving the kvetching a rest?

Do you not recognize sarcasm when you see it? My example was merely to show that you can't take everything at face value... and sometimes you should. You really think I was serious about a Ford/Boeing merger? Funny.

Just because he worked at one company doesn't mean the new employer and the old will merge. If I were to invoke that logic... I'd have left my airline job for the medical job I have now and try to make my medical practice and airline... same analogy as the Mullaly comment.

Sure it leads folks to speculate. But keep things in perspective and just wait and see before stirring up conspiracies and rumors. There's too much of that in this industry already.
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 43):
That doesn't make sense, TWFirst. HP was never in bankrupcty when it acquired US. HP acquired US to save US.

AirTran717 asserted that NW and DL recently went through bankruptcies, and thus merging the two is not a good idea...presumably, he assumes a merger would be in the near term, which I don't believe it is. To your point, yes, US was in bankruptcy at the time it was acquired, but HP absolutely did NOT acquire US to "save US"...now THAT doesn't make any sense. Why would a company acquire a competitor in order to "save it"?? HP acquired US because it saw an opportunity to create value for shareholders through a combination of the two entities...i.e. "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts". US' bankruptcy allowed HP, formerly in bankruptcy itself, to acquire US without the premium required had US not have been in BK. My point being two entities who were both in bankruptcy at some point were able to combine into a stronger, more competitive company. Likewise, DL & NWs recent bankruptcies are not hinderances to a possible combination... on the contrary, they may contribute to the success of such a combination. DL & NW have lots of other hinderances, however, as many have correctly noted above.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 42):
The fairly recent former NW CEO is now CEO at Delta... and you can't see how that leads many folks to contemplate the future of the relationship between the two companies??

This is a short list it took a minute to compile
Current AirTran CEO is ex NWA VP
Current AirTran Pres is ex NWA VP
Current US CEO is ex NWA VP
Current AC CEO is ex NWA VP
Current Spirit CEO is ex NWA VP
Current NWA CEO is ex CO VP

I could go on,

If merger was being contemplated with all these carriers because of this it would be a very large airline. Airline people move around.
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: What Does A Combined NW/DL Look Like?

Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting AirTran717 (Reply 46):
Do you not recognize sarcasm when you see it? My example was merely to show that you can't take everything at face value... and sometimes you should. You really think I was serious about a Ford/Boeing merger? Funny.

Just because he worked at one company doesn't mean the new employer and the old will merge. If I were to invoke that logic... I'd have left my airline job for the medical job I have now and try to make my medical practice and airline... same analogy as the Mullaly comment.

Sure it leads folks to speculate. But keep things in perspective and just wait and see before stirring up conspiracies and rumors. There's too much of that in this industry already.

HA! You give me too much credit. The "conspiracies"(?) and rumors are already there....I didn't "stir them up" by starting this thread... and they're based on solid logic... you don't seem to understand it's NOT just that a CEO went to another company and therefore I'm saying the two companies are now more likely to merge (which seems to be the point of your irrelevant analogy) .... AGAIN... to spell it out... the two companies have had merger talks. We know this. The CEO of one of the companies is now the CEO of the other company. They're not in disassociated industries like aviation and medicine... they're both AIRLINES and COMPETITORS. Even if his move didn't happen, everyone agrees industry consolidation is going to happen... this event may or may not make these two companies more likely partners, but it certainly reinforces what's already known about relations between the two and it makes one think. Thinking is not bad. As several folks have noted, the combination of these two would be particularly challenging... but potentially very rewarding. I believe the point of this forum is to discuss such matters. Yes, it's been discussed before... but the industry economics and situation are quickly evolving.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.