airblue
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FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:24 am

From Ryanair web site French version. It seems from 12 november they will souspend all the operation out of CRL.

Réservations suspendues à.p.d. 12 novembre à.p.d./vers Bruxelles Sud Charleroi

Ryanair a suspendu toutes ses réservations à.p.d./vers Bruxelles Sud-Charleroi a partir du 12 novembre prochain. Cette mesure est prise en attendant la résolution des problèmes qui ont cause la fermeture de l’aéroport pendant le week-end du 15 – 17 juin dernier, et ainsi l’annulation des vols pour plus que 22.500 passagers.

L’aéroport de Bruxelles Sud-Charleroi a assure Ryanair que des solutions sont en cours et des lors Ryanair espère pouvoir reprendre ses vols très rapidement. Cependant Ryanair est déterminé à assurer ses vols seulement si la compagnie reçoit l’assurance qu’une éventuelle grève ne pourra plus bloquer cet aéroport international. Un plan d’urgences doit être opérationnel.

Les vols de Ryanair au mois d’août, septembre et octobre à.p.d./vers Bruxelles Sud-Charleroi ne sont pas concernés par ces annulations. En attendant une solution, Ryanair ne fera pas plus de commentaire sur cette affaire.
 
RussianJet
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:35 am

Any idea as to the actual reason for the suspension?
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blueflyer
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:53 am

Ryanair has been demanding that the regional government somehow guarantee a minimum service level in case of future strikes to prevent the cancellation of all flights.

Belgium's right-to-strike is, I think, almost equal to France's and almost absolute. Emergency services (police, fire, EMS), critical functions (such as nuclear plant monitoring) and their essential suppliers (eg: phone service for the police dept) cannot be hampered by a strike. Anything else, including passenger screening at airports, is fair game. Replacement workers are, again, an option in very limited cases, once more not including passenger screening.

If the government gives in to Ryanair, it would be a Pyhrric victory because mass protests will ensue, shutting down the airport far longer than the June strike did.

Ryanair says they waited this long before acting to let the government and unions sort things out. The unions reply Ryanair didn't want to scare passengers away during the very profitable summer season...
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RussianJet
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:05 am

Does this in any way link in with this forum topic I presented today?
Ryanair Falls Foul Of The ASA (by RussianJet Aug 22 2007 in Civil Aviation)
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blueflyer
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:18 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 3):

Only in so much that if Ryanair doesn't get what it wants and makes good on its implicit threat, the carrier really won't have to give a damn about what the ASA thinks of its advertising for CRL.
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flytuitravel
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:22 pm

This isn't so bad... maybe some of the smaller bases will get more planes! Or maybe they will open a MLA base?
LTN could definitely do with more routes!


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
BrusselsSouth
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:40 pm

Well, I see this announcement as a mean for Ryanair to put pressure on the regional (walloon) governement. Frankly, I can't see them leaving CRL at such a short notice, after all their recent new routes announcements from the airport.

Officially, they have stated that they will resume their post-November 12th flights if the government gives them solid guarantees that strikes like last June will not happen anymore. The government is reluctant to give such garantees as it considers strikes as events out of its control.

But there's something else : according to a trustworthy newspaper, Ryanair is asking 1 million EUR from the government (or is it BSCA, the airport operator ? The paper is not very clear) as a compensation for last June strike. The threat to leave Charleroi completely could simply be some move put pressure on the government (or BSCA). As the brand new terminal is scheduled to open in late 2007 / early 2008, the prospect of Ryanair leaving should indeed put a lot of pressure...

Beside, as far as we know, CRL is a profitable base for FR.

Regards
BrusselsSouth
 
antonovman
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:17 pm

Has this anything to do with the selling off of a bunch of older aircraft ?
It sounds like just more O'Leary 's blustering and bullying
 
Beaucaire
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:24 pm

How much trust can one have in investments based on a "partnership" with Ryanair ???
If he is trying to operate in an environment without potential strikes,why do they fly to Italy,Spain or France ?
Entrepreneurship is OK ,but blackmail is not a sound basis for future investments of any airport dealings with Ryanair.
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RussianJet
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:29 pm

Does rather seem that they're trying to just put pressure on the airport and local government. As usual, such messing about serves only to cause disruption and stress to the passenger.
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ryanairCRL
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 2):
Replacement workers are, again, an option in very limited cases, once more not including passenger screening

When there is a strike in CRL they block off the airport, refusing access to anyone. It's actually unlawful in Belgium to stop others from getting to their work but it happens almost everytime there is a strike, not only at the CRL airport.
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brightcedars
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:37 pm

I think it's time the walloon government's investment agencies put some money on the table to support a home grown low-cost alternative that will reduce the airport's exposure to Ryanair's any desire.

If Ryanair wants to do politics let them form a party and run in the next elections, if they win a sizeable share of the votes, then they will be in a position to turn old socialist Wallonia into modern day Ireland. Godspeed.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:31 pm

They also announced a complete pull out from NQY when a £5 departure tax was introduced, but today they are still flying there. I'll believe it when I see it basically.


Dan Smile
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BrusselsSouth
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 11):
I think it's time the walloon government's investment agencies put some money on the table to support a home grown low-cost alternative that will reduce the airport's exposure to Ryanair's any desire.

The idea might seem appealing, however, there is no way the walloon government (through which agency ?) could fund a "low-cost" alternative as you call it.

1. The cost basis in Wallonia (and in Belgium) for that matter would not allow the operation to be "low-cost".
2. The walloon government does not have the money to fund such a venture.
3. If Ryanair doesn't leave ( Smile) then the majority of profitable routes out of CRL are already serviced.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 11):
turn old socialist Wallonia into modern day Ireland

Wow... A bit of generalization here ! Well, should there be a part of truth in this statement, then the Ryanair base at CRL (or even the whole Charleroi airport growth, not to mention the surroundings) would be a good counter example. Airport strikes are not limited to Wallonia (remember the April strike at Brussels Airport ?). I understand your position, although in the case being discussed by the thread starter, I don't think the "old socialist" government of Wallonia is to blame (the minister in charge of regional airports is from the CdH - Christian democrats, by the way...).

Regards
BrusselsSouth
 
Humberside
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:34 am

Typical FR 'Bold and direct' move. Although if FR do withdraw, those airport workers will be regretting it as most of them will no doubt loose their jobs - Wizz Air, Blue Air, Jet4You and OnAir surely couldn't keep all of CRL's existing employees in work

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 5):
This isn't so bad... maybe some of the smaller bases will get more planes! Or maybe they will open a MLA base?
LTN could definitely do with more routes!

No room at LTN to base more aircraft. Any expansion will have to come from operating into LTN from other bases
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Flying Belgian
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:12 pm

Ryanair wants 1 million € as compensation but the Walloon Gvt simply cannot give it due to local laws restricting such methods.
So they'll have to fix the issue by another mean. Local politicians flew to DUB hq to try and solve the crisis directly with O'Leary.

I don't see any FR pull-out but if I was a CRL worker I would not play that game a second time though. If you remember the crisis we had during that strike, at one stage the MET workers (security agents at CRL) threatened to block three 737s of FR. So FR decided to "evacuate" the 3 airplanes. This is the problem that has upset and annoyed most FR. And strangely the local media here seem to have forgotten that episode...

They (FR) want clear guarantee that such trick never happens again.


FB.
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Joost
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
How much trust can one have in investments based on a "partnership" with Ryanair ???

Not too much, but that's no news. And IMO, it is not only Ryanair who is to blame. The Walloon government decided to build a new terminal: they didn't have to, they wanted to expand their infrastructure themselves. Apparantly, the Walloon government believed that the capacity could be filled.

It is, though, a realistic threat for many of these airports for who Ryanair is a >80% customer. If the airports loses Ryanair service (either due to disagreement, either due to economic unprofitablility or even in the unlikely event of Ryanair collapsing), they have a lot of infrastructure doing nothing. Not only CRL, also GRO, HHN, NRN, NYO or PIK are in a similar situation. The main problem is that it turns out to be hard to attract other carriers when Ryanair has service to the airport; there might be some Wizzair flights and some other odd airlines, but that's about it. HHN, for example, attempts to cover this risk by also developing an impressive cargo section at the airport.

Many other airports do not rely that much on one carrier (BRE, MRS, VLC, ALC, MAD) either will easily find someone to replace Ryanair (STN, LTN, CIA). However, basically an airport like AMS faces a similar risk in the (again unlikely) case AF would decide to dismantle the AMS hub.

On the CRL subject: I do not see them withdrawing flights. They only want that money and a back-up plan. I'd imagine a back-up plan isn't too much too ask? For example, having framework contracts with temporary work agencies to source un-unionized labour force as soon as needed? Maybe even with unrelated French workers (Valenciennes isn't too far away, or experienced people from Lille Airport)?
 
Beaucaire
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:08 pm

If some of the HUB-bases of Ryanair would team up and decide not the pay the 'marketing' fees claimed by the company - what could Ryanair do ??
If Hahn,Charleroi and Girona decide to ask "normal" conditions like the ones obtained from Air Berlin,TUI or Vueling-MOL would be powerless.
They can't all of a sudden find new airports and new destinations for say 20-25 planes.All London airports are filled capacity -wise.
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varig md-11
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting BrusselsSouth (Reply 6):
But there's something else : according to a trustworthy newspaper, Ryanair is asking 1 million EUR from the government (or is it BSCA, the airport operator ? The paper is not very clear) as a compensation for last June strike. The threat to leave Charleroi completely could simply be some move put pressure on the government (or BSCA). As the brand new terminal is scheduled to open in late 2007 / early 2008, the prospect of Ryanair leaving should indeed put a lot of pressure...

this is plain blackmail and Ryanair is not at his 1st attempt!!
recently they asked most French airports from where they are operating to participate to their cost of advertising in the local press or they would review the service to these destinations
rogue and cheap airline in every sense of the word

and I still wonder how you can call Charleroi "Brussels south" or Beauvais "Paris".....only with this they are crooks

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 11):
turn old socialist Wallonia into modern day Ireland

bring the billions of EU subsidies which transformed Ireland to Wallonia and it will be very rich too
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Joost
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 17):
If some of the HUB-bases of Ryanair would team up and decide not the pay the 'marketing' fees claimed by the company - what could Ryanair do ??

Extremely interesting situation, but IMO highly unlikely, and MOL knows it. For every airport, there are so many parties involved: the airport management and owner, the local politics, local economy, etc. And let's say that half-way GRO suddenly says "okay, we will agree on the FR conditions if we get the CRL aircraft", than again there is one loser. It's a prisoners dilemma. And imagine what kind of political unrest would occur in the Costa Brava (hotel owners, restaurants, etc) if they would risk the Ryanair inbound tourism? They would never get the backing.

Next to that, I fail to believe that all of these bigger airports are that badly threatened by FR. HHN is operated by Fraport, they need to justify their decisions to the shareholders and IIRC they are about to post a profit for 2007. GRO is operated by AENA: after GRO, they have secured deals for MAD, VLC and ALC as well, and they are continously expanding from GRO: they must be quite happy with it, anyway. NRN is completely privately owned and was very happy with the FR base.

I do believe that there will be some airports on the FR map that pay an awful lot of money to get the service, but IMO this is mostly due to local politicians that prefer the prestige above the value of the taxpayers money. FR knows this, and uses (or, if you want, exploits) the situation. But there again, this is common use for all airlines. Other LCCs or legacy carriers are no better in getting local subsidies, but they keep it more quiet.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
bring the billions of EU subsidies which transformed Ireland to Wallonia and it will be very rich too

Fair statement !
There is still this miss-conception around that in Belgium all the Flemish are tough and hard workers ,brilliant business men and entrepreneurs,and all the French-speakes are losers,lazy syndicalists and incapable to create anything.
If the south of Belgium is still heavily socialist minded,there is a change in the way of thinking and doing things.
Wallonia deserves some more interest by investors,in that local universities produce excellent graduates.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Joost
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
recently they asked most French airports from where they are operating to participate to their cost of advertising in the local press or they would review the service to these destinations
rogue and cheap airline in every sense of the word

Can you explain me in what way this is different from what STN did: increase charges by a large percentage and give a "take it or leave it"? The relationship airline-airport is changing: in areas where there is a short supply of airports (London), airports play these games with airlines. In regions where there is an oversupply of airports (Belgium, French provinces) airlines can play these games. I completely agree that it sounds cheap, but IMO it is just though business negotiations. Something that is quite new for the airport-airline relationship, but extremely common in the car manufacturing, computer parts, or airplane manufacturing.

To give an example: Airbus decreases the amount of money they pay their suppliers per item every year: they expect the supplier to be self-learning and they should be able to reduce their cost base every year, and Airbus should profit from this. Blackmail or business? Or the car industry: experts of the manufacturers audit the suppliers, find out where they can reduce costs and then renegotiate contracts. Blackmail or business?

Ryanair does usually not sign long-term deals with the airports. So the airports know that after the contracts expire, the terms may change considerably. And: usually, these Ryanair services are not vital to the local economy or whatsoever. At least, they shouldn't be  Smile
 
RussianJet
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 21):
Can you explain me in what way this is different from what STN did:

Most French airports FR operate to are nothing like STN, have no connection with STN, and are not answerable for what STN does in any way. In the main they are way smaller and depend quite a lot on service from FR. 'Airports' do not come as a job lot - just because one might behave in an unfair or heavy-handed way does not mean that anything called an airport is fair game for being bullied and held to ransome.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
rogue and cheap airline in every sense of the word

Most definitely.
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slz396
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:30 pm

Very good and swift reaction to the situation from Brussels Airlines in pure Ryanair style today.

In a nationwide media campaign, Brussels Airlines takes note of Ryanair´s departure from CRL (sic) and offers the ´dumped passengers´ 150.000 oneway tickets for 49.99 euro throughout Europe, for travel after November 12th.

MOL couldn´t have done it better.

ROTFL
 
varig md-11
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:34 pm

I agree with both Joost and Russianjet  Wink

geachte Joost, you have a point: these practices are very widespread in nowadays business world, and in the end what is business what is blackmail?
Ford is putting its EU factories in "competition" and asks for local authorities to finance some developments, so to some extent why Ryanair would not do the same with airports...

Russianjet I fully agree with what you say: it's not because my neighbor acts mean that I should copy and do the same with my other neighbor.

furthermore, as far as France is concerned, a bit more of context: Ryanair mainly developped in airports which had barely ANY traffic before they arrived; local authorities (naively) fell in the trap by creating infrastructure out of the blue and investing sometimes heavily
pax wise, it has created new trends: direct flights from the UK to BIQ for example; as a consequence some UK pax have bought residence in BIQ or Dordogne or La Rochelle based on the fact there was a Ryanair direct link

now when Ryanair enter this "business"or "blackmail" game, it jeopardizes local airports but also entire communities

that's a personnal view but I find it disgusting
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RussianJet
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 23):
In a nationwide media campaign, Brussels Airlines takes note of Ryanair´s departure from CRL (sic) and offers the ´dumped passengers´ 150.000 oneway tickets for 49.99 euro throughout Europe, for travel after November 12th.

Fine work, SN! A very good effort indeed. Hopefully more people will then find out that for just a little more money you can fly a far superior service.
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blueflyer
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:50 am

Well, the lines are clear now. The regional government has stated that:
a) A strike is a force majeure for which it cannot be held responsible and it will therefore not pay compensation;
b) The right to strike is enshrined in the Belgian constitution and no regional government can tinker with it.

The same government is also heaping scorn on FR. Apparently FR has been playing hardball and the government has had enough. The government and the airport unions have reached an agreement since June over the issue which led to the June strike that FR is asking compensation for and guarantee against, but due to the political calendar, it cannot be officially signed until September. The government says FR has known all along, just as FR refused last week the government's request to hold talks in September, the first "working" month of the political calendar in Belgium, over their demands for compensation and guarantee and instead decided to suspend flights, most likely to raise the pressure.

This being said, the airport manager, a political appointee, is going to FR headquarters this Thursday. Somehow, I doubt it is to tell them "tough luck" so I guess a deal can yet be made, but it probably will be over better terms at the airport, as I really don't see the local government budging on compensation or strike guarantees.

Quoting Joost (Reply 16):
For example, having framework contracts with temporary work agencies to source un-unionized labour force as soon as needed?

Can't do that in Belgium. As long as the strike is legal (while I don't remember the exact terms, I know that it's not high threshold either), striking workers cannot be replaced in most cases.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
ryanairCRL
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 26):
striking workers cannot be replaced in most cases.

but they can't block the access to the airport either, which they do!
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blueflyer
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 27):
but they can't block the access to the airport either, which they do!

Each situation is handled on its own merit. The police could have moved in on its own to free up access to the airport, or airport management (or even FR) could have asked a judge to order the police to remove the blockage if necessary, but in this particular case, since the striking workers couldn't be replaced, it wouldn't have made a difference as passengers still would not have been screened, and planes still would not have been taking off, which is (my guess) why nobody forcibly removed the strikers, as it would only have increased the tension.

The Belgian police is very well equipped when it comes to clearing protesters off a road or a bridge. I think it would take some serious explosive to defeat their water canons. If they want a road cleared, it will be cleared.

In this, and many other situations, you need to balance the law against the consequences of applying the law.
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MH017
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:45 am

FR, apparently, have a love-hate relationship with Belgium:
1st, they left the Flemish OST airport, and now the're gonna leave the Wallon CRL airport as well ?
What will be FR's alternative for the Belgium market ?
LIL - MST ?
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
varig md-11
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting MH017 (Reply 29):
What will be FR's alternative for the Belgium market ?

LIL is too "advanced" and MST too close to EIN
find any forgotten airfield with gullible politicians ready to put euros on the table: once the lemon has no juice anymore Vampirair will move to next forgotten village and bus you during 2 hours from BRU or PAR
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Humberside
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 30):
MST too close to EIN

FR currently serve MST from GRO, with ALC and VLC starting later this year
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Joost
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:41 pm

According to luchtvaartnieuws, a draft agreement has been made between the Walloon government and Ryanair. The contract will be signed saturday, ticket sales will be resumed tomorrow. As I said, the problem was there to solve in the first place - CRL is way too profitable for FR to shut down.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 24):
local authorities (naively) fell in the trap by creating infrastructure out of the blue and investing sometimes heavily

So the local politicians are to blame, aren't they?

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 24):
pax wise, it has created new trends: direct flights from the UK to BIQ for example; as a consequence some UK pax have bought residence in BIQ or Dordogne or La Rochelle based on the fact there was a Ryanair direct link

Which indicates that there are indeed these positive economic effects of the Ryanair link. IMO, the right airport at the right place with the right politicians might well result into a win-win situation when they start working with Ryanair. I don't think that every local economy will in the end lose from the service. Some might, due to bad policy, but I do believe that for airports in tourist regions, the economic impulse might well be positive in the end.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 30):

LIL is too "advanced" and MST too close to EIN

Why is LIL too advanced? Is it too close to a city? Is it more advanced than MAD, VLC, ALC or BRE?

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 30):
once the lemon has no juice anymore Vampirair will move to next forgotten village and bus you during 2 hours from BRU or PAR

Still no differenence from any other LCC. The quicker airlines expand their network, the quicker one can expect destinations to be dropped.
 
MH017
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:02 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 32):
Which indicates that there are indeed these positive economic effects of the Ryanair link. IMO, the right airport at the right place with the right politicians might well result into a win-win situation when they start working with Ryanair. I don't think that every local economy will in the end lose from the service. Some might, due to bad policy, but I do believe that for airports in tourist regions, the economic impulse might well be positive in the end

It amazes me, there are no LCC flights as yet to XCR (Chalons-en-Champagne/Vatry), ideally situated between both Paris and Luxembourg, and having a long runway and new built passenger's Terminal !!!

[Edited 2007-08-24 11:17:43]
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
varig md-11
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:01 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 32):
So the local politicians are to blame, aren't they?

yes they are, they are so silly they don't see where they put their feet in.

Quoting Joost (Reply 32):
I do believe that for airports in tourist regions, the economic impulse might well be positive in the end.

I agree

Quoting Joost (Reply 32):
Why is LIL too advanced? Is it too close to a city?

LIL is too "advanced" in terms of infrastructure: Ryanair would typically target something less developped to save on costs, if they're in MAD it's because to my knowledge no cheap airport is available around (like Ciampino instead of Fiumicino for Rome)

Quoting Joost (Reply 32):
Still no differenence from any other LCC. The quicker airlines expand their network, the quicker one can expect destinations to be dropped.

disagree: EZ development in France is more steady, even if they dropped frequencies on MRS after the TGV was launched, and they don't bus you in the midddle of nowhere
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Joost
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 34):
yes they are, they are so silly they don't see where they put their feet in.

Apparantly the French local politicians are no different from the Dutch ones...  Sad

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 34):
LIL is too "advanced" in terms of infrastructure: Ryanair would typically target something less developped to save on costs, if they're in MAD it's because to my knowledge no cheap airport is available around (like Ciampino instead of Fiumicino for Rome)

Partly agree.

In MAD, they got a good deal from the airport. After they opened Terminal 4, Terminal 3 suddenly had a lot of unused capacity. AENA attracted both easyJet and Ryanair to start a base at MAD. (easyJet 4 aircraft, Ryanair 3 at this moment, no. 4 to come this autumn).

In the last 1-2 years we can see a slight change in Ryanairs strategy. In the first years, they only flew into airports with low costs, and faced the consequence of not serving certain markets (only from DUB the strategy was slightly different, i.e. MAN, BHX and LGW services). Currently, while growing, they want to have a broader coverage and realize that there is not always a cheap alternative available, like in Madrid. They accept higher airport costs; in the case of MAD they claim the yields offset the costs. (last year presentation)

Another thing is that larger airports get used more and more to LCCs and become more and more willing to offer cheaper packages for LCCs. BRU is a good example; up to 2 years ago they hardly had any LCC service except Virgin Express. After their management and name change last year, they started attracting LCCs: and here, see SkyEurope and easyJet opening routes. Other airports see that Ryanair might actually well be a good partner to fill unused capacity: MAD, BRE and ALC are good examples of these. The last year, they have started or announced many more major airports, like BUD, PRG, NCE, WAW, BSL - more the easyJet territory, but 3 years ago this was ought to be impossible. Other possible airports that might be added soon include IMO GVA and SOF.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 34):
EZ development in France is more steady, even if they dropped frequencies on MRS after the TGV was launched, and they don't bus you in the midddle of nowhere

That's right, although they also dropped AMS-NCE after AMS raised it's fares (2004), DTM-CDG (2006) and recently CDG-BSL. A main difference is that easyJet flies more on "tested" routes - routes that have been operated by other airlines and that have a kind of "sure" demand. It's a safer strategy. Ryanair opens routes previously unserved (and never even imagined - who would believe in 1997 that there was demand for a 3-weekly 189-seat plane on EMA-EGC, or a 2-daily STN-CCF? It's more risky, and therefore understandable that more routes can fail.

The use of remote airports (and the bussing to the middle of nowhere) is IMO not related to reliability. They do not suddenly move the complete BVA airport to another place  Wink
 
varig md-11
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RE: FR To Suspend All The Operation Out Of CRL

Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:08 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 35):
In MAD, they got a good deal from the airport. After they opened Terminal 4, Terminal 3 suddenly had a lot of unused capacity. AENA attracted both easyJet and Ryanair to start a base at MAD. (easyJet 4 aircraft, Ryanair 3 at this moment, no. 4 to come this autumn).

interesting information I didn't know that

Quoting Joost (Reply 35):
Another thing is that larger airports get used more and more to LCCs and become more and more willing to offer cheaper packages for LCCs

that's right, the example of MRS (MP4 I think?!) new LCC dedicated terminal is revealing

thanks for your very interesting presentatie Joost  Wink
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