LASoctoberB6
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:41 pm

i just read somewhere that HP placed a firm order for 15 A318s...not after the US merge, but before. what ever happenend to those? what IAE variants would they have?
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LTU932
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:46 pm

That order was I believe taken up by HP after TW merged with AA. The A318s were supposed to be powered by PW6122 engines, but in the end, HP cancelled those orders, probably in favour of more A319s, after it came out that the PW6000 engine had design flaws which delayed its EIS.
 
jlbmedia
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:05 pm

Would the A318's have worked out for HP/US, or was the demise of the order a good thing for them? John.
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itsnotfinals
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 2):
Would the A318's have worked out for HP/US, or was the demise of the order a good thing for them? John.

the A318 has proven to be not such a great fit for most US Airlines, just look at F9, they have traded up their 318 options to 319's for a few years now. I love the 318, but HP was smart to get 319's instead.
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AirTranTUS
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:03 pm

I have an HP magazine at home from November 2001 showing the A318 as being ordered on the fleet page. Just a little piece of aviation history now.
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Charles79
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:11 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 3):
I love the 318, but HP was smart to get 319's instead.

I agree, it was a smart move. I had the chance to fly on one of F9's A318 last week and it was a great flight, but the extra capacity of the A319 makes more sense given that the running costs are so close.

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asuflyer05
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:37 pm

A quick search of the terms 'HP A318' and 'America West A318' yielded the following result:

Will US Airways Take Delivery Of The A318?
Posted by Columba on Tuesday August 14, 2007 at 08:58

In addtion...
USAirways Restructures And Increases Airbus Order
HP And US Fleet Size After Merger
Boeing 737-600 - Why Such A Flop?
 
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mariner
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 3):
just look at F9, they have traded up their 318 options to 319's for a few years now.

I don't think so. They ordered four more A318's, the last of which was delivered in June.

They did swap some A319 options for A320, though.

mariner

[Edited 2007-08-25 07:50:29]
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F9Animal
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:35 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 3):
the A318 has proven to be not such a great fit for most US Airlines, just look at F9, they have traded up their 318 options to 319's for a few years now. I love the 318, but HP was smart to get 319's instead.

Actually the 318's are doing great for F9. It works well in markets that are not showing numbers like the 319 does. I have found they use them more in markets that are seasonal hits like SEA for example. You will notice them switch from 319's to more 318's during the winter months when traffic in SEA slows a bit. Other great areas to focus the 318's on are markets that F9 is a newcomer to. It usually takes a little time to build good traffic numbers on new routes. I love the 318 personally, and it was always a treat to fly on them. Not much of a difference in them as far as a passengers point of view, but it was fun knowing I have been on them. For a growing airline like F9, I can see the smaller aircraft as a good tester so to speak. I guess Spirit would be another good example of it too.

I could see the benefit of the 318's for US in the cases mentioned above, but US is pretty established on most of its routes. The E190 seems to be a suitable bird for them.
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KrisYUL
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:45 pm

Shame you don't see more A318's - it's kinda like a twin-jet Jumbolino (BAe 146). It's so adorable, you almost want to forgive JL for his sins just because Airbus makes it - almost...

[Edited 2007-08-25 08:52:03]
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LASoctoberB6
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:44 pm

im wondering how this went from HP to AC....  Smile
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itsnotfinals
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
was smart to get 319's instead.

Actually the 318's are doing great for F9. It works well in markets that are not showing numbers like the 319 does



Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
I don't think so. They ordered four more A318's, the last of which was delivered in June

I am not saying they are not a good airplane, I am saying they have limited generic utility and don't work as a "backbone" fleet aircraft. I was just on a F9 A318 from DAY to DEN 3 weeks ago and have always loved the type. The A318 is not significantly cheaper to operate than the 319, that is why F9 changed out to more A319's from the original A318 order.
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MaverickM11
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What happened to HP's order for A318s?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 2):
Would the A318's have worked out for HP/US, or was the demise of the order a good thing for them?

It makes little sense, especially for an LCC, to buy an aircraft whose operating costs are essentially the same as a A319, but with fewer seats.
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):

It makes little sense, especially for an LCC, to buy an aircraft whose operating costs are essentially the same as a A319, but with fewer seats.

but wouldnt they go for the A319 for the range if the op. costs are the same on the A318?
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MaverickM11
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 13):
but wouldnt they go for the A319 for the range if the op. costs are the same on the A318?

I don't follow...the A319 has a longer range than the A318.
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mariner
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 11):
that is why F9 changed out to more A319's from the original A318 order.

The original order was for 10 - 5 firm and 5 options. They exercised 2 options, and in one of the early amendments to the contract, yes, they coverted the three options to A319.

But when they ordered the A320, they also converted 8 x A319 options - to 4 x A320 and 4 x A318:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-02-23-frontier-a320_x.htm

They now have a fleet of 11 and the original order was for 10.

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AirframeAS
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:52 am

IIRC, HP converted those 318 orders into 319's sometime in 2003. Old news.
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jlbmedia
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
HP cancelled those orders, probably in favour of more A319s



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
IIRC, HP converted those 318 orders into 319's sometime in 2003. Old news.

It's very old news, we were given the news in the first reply!
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I don't follow...the A319 has a longer range than the A318.

if the A319 has the range, but has the same operating costs as the A318, wouldnt it be smarter to go with A319?
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gilesdavies
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:43 pm

I don't think the A318 would be good choice for the HP/US fleet now...

Even though it is fully compatible with other single aisle A320 family in the fleet. It is the wrong aircraft for the job, in this market. The EMB 190/195's do the job far better and at much less cost!

The A318 is in exactly the same position as the 737-600, it is too much aircraft for th job! While the 737-700/A319 and the 737-800/A320 all thrive the 737-600/A318 market is a complete flop!

With aircrafts like the BAe 146 and Fokker 70/100's coming to the end of their useful like, both Boeing and Airbus were hoping to capitalise with airlines placing replacement orders A318. This has not really happened, and a good example is FlyBE here in the UK that went for the EMB E-195 instead, to replace their clapped out old BAe 146's. Airbus have also tried to get the A318's certified to land into LCY which requires STOL certification, and successfully achieved this, but no airlines who operate in this market has come forward yet to place an order!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: What Happened To HP's Order For

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 18):
if the A319 has the range, but has the same operating costs as the A318, wouldnt it be smarter to go with A319?

Yes--you're essentially getting 20 additional seats for free with the A319 versus the A318.
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