User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:58 am

SW brought in three 738 into SFO this afternoon. I guess to get their ground crews familiar with operations. They officially start their flights tomorrow and an Official SFO welcome scheduled for Monday.
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:05 am

I think OP means 73G (737-700).

Just for the future, WN is the code for Southwest :]. Remember, you can't spell Win without WN.

-A
What now?
 
737tanker
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:47 am

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting Legacyins (Thread starter):
SW brought in three 738 into SFO this afternoon. I guess to get their ground crews familiar with operations. They officially start their flights tomorrow

WN brought those planes in today NOT to get the crews familiar with the operations but so that there would be aircraft in SFO for the originating flights tomorrow. I know at least one of those aircraft was brought in from MDW.
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 1):
I think OP means 73G (737-700).

Yeah because we only fly 733s, 735s, and 737s.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
dacman
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:22 am

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:47 am

These are the aircraft ferried to SFO for the inaugural flights;

N281WN (DAL-SFO)

N288WN (MDW-SFO)

N290WN (PHX-SFO)

Good luck to my Southwest family members in SFO.

Michael
(Dacman)
LAX / LGB Local
WN SNA Ops
"Airliner Photography is not a crime"
 
skoker
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:49 am

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:48 am

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8500
-700 from Dallas Love field, presumably with Herb/Gary/Colleen onboard

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8501
-700 from Midway

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8502
-700 from PHX Sky Harbor
 
SANFan
Posts: 3671
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting Legacyins (Thread starter):
SW brought in three 738 into SFO this afternoon. I guess to get their ground crews familiar with operations.

I'm sure you're correct but WN does originate 3 a/c in SFO every morning on their start-up schedule so they are also just getting the a/c in position.

(Tomorrow also sees SAN, with the return of 8 daily r/t to SFO, break the 100-flights/day threshold for the first time ever! Thank you WN for your efforts at and belief in San Diego!)

bb
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:54 am

Thanks for the insight from all. It makes sense, three aircraft for three destinations. I took a guess on the aircraft type, as you can see.  Smile
 
BNinMSY
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:19 pm

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:02 pm

And overnight the roundtrip MSY-SFO fare dropped to $230 !
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:27 pm

I heard they are planning 100 flights a day out of SFO... they will be running SFO-SEA... yes...???
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4455
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:34 pm

Quoting Legacyins (Thread starter):
I guess to get their ground crews familiar with operations

Since the ground crew consists of agents that transfered from other stations, I'd say there is little they are not already familiar with. Especially since almost everyone starting there has at least 5 years with the company.  Smile

As stated, they arrived for positioning.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
(Tomorrow also sees SAN, with the return of 8 daily r/t to SFO, break the 100-flights/day threshold for the first time ever! Thank you WN for your efforts at and belief in San Diego!)

bb

Wish me luck! I have a double today, so that means I will experience SAN's entire first day as a 100+ flight station.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Lexy
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting Lono (Reply 9):
I heard they are planning 100 flights a day out of SFO

HUH! I think that's what they say everywhere they go. We're still waiting here in Music City..........


Good luck SFO. I am sure you will support WN well. Personally, I hope to see some flights to there non-stop from BNA in the future!
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:45 pm

The first 2 flights are airborne right on time! Ticket counter was packed this morning as well.

84 to MDW and 1835 to SAN

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 10):
Since the ground crew consists of agents that transfered from other stations, I'd say there is little they are not already familiar with. Especially since almost everyone starting there has at least 5 years with the company.

As stated, they arrived for positioning.

We had a customer service agent leave PIT to go work at SFO.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
Acey
Posts: 981
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:26 am

Why'd they leave SFO in 2001 anyway?
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
futuresdpdcop
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:26 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:33 am

I am flying on the last SFO-SAN flight tonight departing at 8:45pm. Was thinking of doing a trip report but I doubt I'll get around to doing it.
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting Futuresdpdcop (Reply 15):
I am flying on the last SFO-SAN flight tonight departing at 8:45pm. Was thinking of doing a trip report but I doubt I'll get around to doing it.

Oh come on do it!!!!!!
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Acey (Reply 14):

High Cost, ATC problems were a mess, and it was screwing up the entire route system for SWA.


Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
JetBlueAUS
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:15 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Acey (Reply 14):
Why'd they leave SFO in 2001 anyway?

It was expensive, Southwest only ran about 14 daily flights out of there, and they were prone for delays.
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:59 am

Well I can tell you guys they are being felt here in the concourse. It's incredible busy upstairs.They had a huge line this morning at the counter and the gates areas are jam-packed. I wish them the best of luck.

p.s. WN, can you give me a SFO-HOU flight please!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting Acey (Reply 14):
Why'd they leave SFO in 2001 anyway?

ATC/ and Cost and Now See WN at PHL the Same Issues with ATC that SFO had. HUMMMMM
 
SANFan
Posts: 3671
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 10):
Wish me luck! I have a double today, so that means I will experience SAN's entire first day as a 100+ flight station.

Hey Silver, how goes it? Things kinda rockin' and rollin' at Lindbergh today? How was the party? Have they figured out a way to stack 2 737s on top of each other there yet?

I have a feeling those SFO trips are very full and will remain so; way to go Southwest!  Smile

bb
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:23 am

So, WN finally back at SFO. Preemption in action?

I still attest to this day, that B6's very existence is testament to the fact that WN can indeed F-up a market assessment, just as horrifically as any other airline:
Pretty much everyone knew that, barring Concorde and a few LatAm arrivals, one could basically go bowling on Kennedy's runways in the morning and early afternoon. And it sat in the heart of an 18million-person metropolitan area, as the only major facility capable of any expansion worth a damn.

I can remember year after year in the 90s that JFK would quite publically court WN, or any LoCo, to set up shop. Nothing. WN ignored it, and then B6 ran with it.

My take would be that WN's trying their best to stifle of repeat thereof.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 17):
High Cost, ATC problems were a mess, and it was screwing up the entire route system for SWA.



Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 18):
It was expensive, Southwest only ran about 14 daily flights out of there, and they were prone for delays.



Quoting WN57787 (Reply 20):
ATC/ and Cost and Now See WN at PHL the Same Issues with ATC that SFO had.
HUMMMMM

Agreed. Since WN announced their return to SFO, the first question that invariably comes to mind is, does WN expect their SFO experience to be any different the "second time around" and, if so, on what basis? Or, have they reconsidered and decided that the burdensome cost and operational "baggage" that come with serving SFO is worth it after all?

Interestingly, I hear tell from a few ex-Southwest co-workers that one of the questions asked of any former WN employee who applies to return to WN is something like: "Since the job didn't seem to work for you before, on what basis do you believe it will work for you this time if you are hired?" I have the very same question for WN's choice to return to SFO after pulling the proverbial plug some six years ago.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4455
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
Hey Silver, how goes it? Things kinda rockin' and rollin' at Lindbergh today? How was the party? Have they figured out a way to stack 2 737s on top of each other there yet?

It's going ok so far. One shift down, one more to go. They used today as an opportunity to tweak the way we do a few things. It has kept me a little busier than normal.

We have already experienced ground stops for SFO...lol. That didn't take long...

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 23):
Interestingly, I hear tell from a few ex-Southwest co-workers that one of the questions asked of any former WN employee who applies to return to WN is something like: "Since the job didn't seem to work for you before, on what basis do you believe it will work for you this time if you are hired?" I have the very same question for WN's choice to return to SFO after pulling the proverbial plug some six years ago.

When it was announced we were returning to SFO, the folks here at SAN didn't exactly jump for joy. With flow problems already making a small appearance, many are asking that same question.

[Edited 2007-08-26 23:31:30]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 23):
I have the very same question for WN's choice to return to SFO after pulling the proverbial plug some six years ago.

Operationally speaking:

1. FAA has since installed PRM equipment in conjunction with the navaids to 28L and 28R, which allows continued use of both runways for a longer period of time when the ceilings come down. It didn't solve all the delay problems, since barring a big quake that moves 28L and 28R further apart or a reconstruction project ever getting approved, SFO will never be able to run simultaneous or parallell ILS approaches to 28L -and- 28R, but the new PRM stuff will help, some.

2. United's hub operation isn't as big as it used to be, so excess demand when the AAR drops isn't as bad, and the delays getting airborne for SFO aren't as bad.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
luvfa
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 10:05 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 23):
TC/ and Cost and Now See WN at PHL the Same Issues with ATC that SFO had.
HUMMMMM

PHL operations have been a challenge no doubt! However there are some differences.

1. In 2001 WN had 14 daily flights at a very delay-prone airport where United was operating at peak operation, (there was no dot-com bust at that point), with limited possibility.

2. Pre 9-11 we were the king of the LCC with little competition. Flying out of secondary airports was the alternative to the network carriers in both landing fee and delays. Nowadays, other LCC's i.e. FL, B6, our competing with us at the major congested airports causing us to tweak our strategy somewhat.

3. At PHL we have opportunity to expand, (more gates in E for example), at SFO we will be able get more gates if needed.
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting Luvfa (Reply 26):

Agreed with all except that when you get gates 21 and 23 (after AC moces Oct. 1), WN will be limited to those 4 gates for a while. All the other gates in the concourse are occupied by AS (QX),US and CO (which includes FL and SY). The agreement with SFO was for 4 gates. But that should be adequate for a good size operation. Its not as though SFO will become your next +80 flight cities.

But sure glad to see WN back!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 23):

Understand all this is not the same Southwest from 2001. There are a lot more planes in the fleet. They have experience with PHL, which will help them with lesson they didn't know the first time around with SFO.

With the larger fleet and knowledge they can adapt to the situating. They have more flexibility. Southwest would not have made this bold move if they had not run the numbers and had a plan. They have not been king of the LCC for nothing. In addition, their scheduling can be adapted to SFO ATC delays. If they are running a -700 8 times a day SAN-SFO, they can very easily cancel a flight, move up their position in the conga line while letting the plane sit in SAN, then the next flight leaves on-time. This on top of statements posted above that ATC is not near the 2001 mark (yet).

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
laca773
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:18 pm

Congrats to WN for coming back to SFO! I too hope they do well.

Does anyone know if there's a chance they'll add flights from SFO-BUR? I know many people who live in the Pasadena area would love for them to start flights from there as they get really tired of flying on UAX CRJs?

Slightly off topic, how many gates did B6 get? Since WN will eventually have four is it safe to assume B6 will use approximately the same #? And VX? Does it really matter since the gates in the international terminal are common use gates?

LACA773
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 29):
Slightly off topic, how many gates did B6 get? Since WN will eventually have four is it safe to assume B6 will use approximately the same #? And VX? Does it really matter since the gates in the international terminal are common use gates?

As stated, it does not matter since they are common gates. Three more gates at the A-Terminal will open up by October.
 
SANFan
Posts: 3671
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 28):
If they are running a -700 8 times a day SAN-SFO, they can very easily cancel a flight, move up their position in the conga line while letting the plane sit in SAN...

Your scenario makes me a little jumpy here, ASSFO, especially considering Silver1's comment:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 24):
When it was announced we were returning to SFO, the folks here at SAN didn't exactly jump for joy. With flow problems already making a small appearance...

With SAN now at 104 flights for 10 gates, there are many times during a typical day at Lindbergh when taking a ground delay for SFO would be the last thing WN would want! (Would you maybe settle for LAS instead, ASSFO?  Wink )

Seriously though, your point is taken but with so many CA cities near or above the gate gridlock threshold, maneuvers like this may become more difficult to pull off.

bb
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:42 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):

LAS could happen as well. I'm just using SAN-SFO as a example. WN has the fleet to handle ground delays more now then they did when they were in San Francisco the first time around. Then after PHL they have the knowledge of what works and what doesn't work when dealing with ground delays. I'd imagine if this was an option they used, they consider both SAN and LAS position at the time, loads, etc.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 27):
except that when you get gates 21 and 23 (after AC moces Oct. 1), WN will be limited to those 4 gates for a while. All the other gates in the concourse are occupied by AS (QX),US and CO (which includes FL and SY). The agreement with SFO was for 4 gates.

SFO still has a mothballed terminal waiting for refurbishment should they ever find themselves short on gates. But I don't think it should be an issue for at least the first few years.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 25):
2. United's hub operation isn't as big as it used to be, so excess demand when the AAR drops isn't as bad, and the delays getting airborne for SFO aren't as bad.

The decline in size in the United hub operation was pretty dramatic, too; there are only about two-thirds as many daily mainline UA departures today as there were in December, 2000. I have to wonder that if WN had stuck it out for another year or so at SFO, if they would have ever left. United wound down the United Shuttle operation very soon after 9/11.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 22):
I still attest to this day, that B6's very existence is testament to the fact that WN can indeed F-up a market assessment, just as horrifically as any other airline:

Pretty much everyone knew that, barring Concorde and a few LatAm arrivals, one could basically go bowling on Kennedy's runways in the morning and early afternoon. And it sat in the heart of an 18million-person metropolitan area, as the only major facility capable of any expansion worth a damn.

Everyone keeps saying this, but I'm still somewhat unconvinced. JFK still doesn't fit well into WN's core short-haul strategy. Pretty much all of their cities in the Northeast (i.e. north of BWI) aside from MHT and BUF are too close to make service workable, and B6 hasn't yet seen fit to go to MHT. Sure, MDW would work, but they didn't have the gate space to allow, say, 5-8 daily round-trips until the new MDW terminal was completed in 2003 or 2004. The NYC-Florida markets were already extremely competitive as well.

And one of B6's key strengths in the JFK markets -- transcons -- doesn't fit well into the WN business model as it has evolved so far.
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):

The airport has not decided what they will be doing with the terminal. There are different plans on the table at this point. They have not ruled out demolition and reconstruction. The terminal is in fact years from being used unless a minimal refurbish is done.

The gate situation actually has been talked about and could be a problem. SFO can not handle the increase it has seen over the past year at this pace (WN/VX/B6). What other airports operate 3 domestic airlines from an international terminal? There are no available gates in T-1 and T-3 at this point, so unless the quick refurbish to T-2 (old international) is done, there will be a gate problem. On top of this issue, we are having ongoing issues with RON parking.

We had to park a overnight a/c at the NW Cargo building last week. Now that was weird.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 34):
The terminal is in fact years from being used unless a minimal refurbish is done.

I suspect that's exactly what they ought to do in the short term. One would expect a bit more urgency if the airport were really that concerned about gate availability.
 
joemac547
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:57 am

RE: Southwest (WN) Starts SFO (a Little Early)

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:40 am

On the subject of ramping up operations......

Southwest announced they will start 8 round trips daily to LAX from SFO on November 4th.