manu
Posts: 265
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IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:32 am

As of June 2008, all airlines who are members of IATA will no longer issue paper tickets. I can't wait for this, as right now when I do travel often and am occasionally issued a paper ticket because of some "weirdness" from other airlines, or switching airlines outside of alliances. About 1 in 10 trips I do is paper ticketed, so clearly not the majority. But when I do have it, I always am worried about loosing it or having it destroyed.

Anyone know of reasons we should be concerned about this switch? Shal I keep my last paper tickets from Canada to Spain and India now that the end is in sight? At last, no more "shipping fees" because a ticket was paper!

Original CBC new story reference

[Edited 2007-08-27 23:35:27]

[Edited 2007-08-27 23:35:50]
 
bok269
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:34 am

You mean June 2008?

This announcement makes sense. No need to waste paper on tickets if it can all be done electronically.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
manu
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 1):
June 2008

Oops, thanks. Fixed.
 
civilav
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:05 pm

As a side note to the CBC article, what IATA claims that this represents a saving in trees is a complete fallacy.
What airlines have cunningly done is put the full cost of ticketing on either the travel agencies (like mine here in Cancun) or the consumer if purchasing through the web.

In the case of travel agencies, we now have to pay for the paper (3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !) and the ink cartridge. Ditto for whoever is buying off the internet. You want your print-out.

Still, we all welcome the news as e-ticketing is so much more efficient (providing the system is up to scratch or your name is spelt correctly otherwise you are in trouble all right !) and easier to deal with when date changes take place. Re-issuing a paper ticket is a real nightmare !

Regards from Cancún !
 
Mitchell Gant
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:11 pm

So what is going to happen to non-rev tickets issued on other carriers? Will the check-in agent look at me like I'm from Mars when I plunk down my good ole Zed fare pass? I seriously doubt airlines will have interline employee NRSA e-ticketing available by next June.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:11 pm

Another question: If someone needs to make an off-line reroute, say if the flight they booked is cancelled on a mechanical, are there systems in place to make sure the receiving airline will honor the reservation?

Another thing comes to mind is in developing countries, where getting on the plane can be an adventure in itself, a paper ticket was often times the only proof that you booked on that fligh, or have things changed to the point that this is not a problem?

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
ANother
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:55 pm

Quoting Manu (Thread starter):
As of June 2008, all airlines who are members of IATA will no longer issue paper tickets.

Check out the IATA press release here. You will see that it is only the neutral ticket stock distributed through their Billing and Settlement Plans that will end. Airline paper tickets can continue, forever, but that decision would be up to each airline.

BTW this doesn't (necessarily) affect the US Settlement system which is run by ATA, not IATA, although in the US e-ticketing is in the high 90% range.
 
commavia
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting Civilav (Reply 3):
3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !

Why do you need three sheets of letter size paper per passenger?

I'd be willing to guess that in most places -- not sure about Mexico per se, but most places -- a simple email confirmation sent directly to the customer -- whether from the ticketing airline directly or from a TA -- would be perfectly sufficient. Most people are already used to email-based confirmations, not to mention that this type of system would allow the airlines/travel agents to shift the cost of printing itineraries (if necessary) onto the customer! The customer would then be free to decide whether they would like to pay for the paper/ink to print their itinerary or not, and not be forced to shoulder that cost as they are now.
 
SNBru
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:29 pm

I was amazed by the fact that my Air France ticket could only be issued as a paper ticket (and I had to pay an extra handling fee). The reason: one segment departs from Vietnam. At the moment this country is not able to handle e tickets for AF. Would this all be gone by next year?

Great, no reason to worry about stolen or lost tickets on a yourney AND possiblity to check in online.
With my paper ticket from AF I can't check in electronically!
 
RAFVC10
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:35 pm

Sorry but I don't believe this announcement... I have many doubts.

How is supposed to be 100% of electronic tickets when there are in many countries and regions of the world (predominantly Africa and ex-URSS republics) that doesn't know what is the paper ticket?

Examples: Sierra National Airlines, Arik air, Bellview Airlines, Tatarstan Airlines, UTair,...

(...)

What's your opinion about it?

Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
RJNUT
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:42 pm

i think they want to set a date and that puts pressure on the airlines , but adjustments can be made as time draws nearer.. I remember Alaska AIrlines a while back had this great anouncement about %100 per cent ticket less! and then quitely had to reinstate some temporary paper ticket arrangements to protect some very important interline agreements! But I have noticed a rather accelerated conversion of airlines to E ticket and I am talking about some pretty small, third world countries!
 
DLPMMM
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:17 pm

Gee, it sounds like hogwash by the IATA to me. I just bought tickets on LH that had to be issued as paper. The reason beiing that LH's e-ticketing computers (and all the other carriers' computers to my knowlege) cannot handle tickets with more than 16 segments.

Typically these are RTW tickets, and so involve alot of different carriers as well.

If the group of airlines on my latest RTW ticket (UA, LH, BD, SQ, TG, and NH) can't handle it in e-ticket format, imagine when some of the Chinese and other carriers with less advanced computer systems join the alliances.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting SNBru (Reply 8):
At the moment this country is not able to handle e tickets for AF.

Not the country, just the DCS system at the airport, probably. Or possibly the local IATA BSP (if there is one).

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 9):
Sorry but I don't believe this announcement... I have many doubts.



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
Gee, it sounds like hogwash by the IATA to me.

It isn't - but there is a qualification. Paper tickets issued by travel agents will be disappearing - paper tickets will no longer be supported by the IATA BSP's or ARC clearing house. Airline tickets don't go through BSP's, and so airlines can continue to issue paper tickets on their own stock. For interline though, I think these will all have to be electronic. And IATA are deadly serious about this deadline (well they were, the deadline was supposed to be 01Jan08, but they slipped it 6 months as so many airlines weren't ready.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
manu
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
I just bought tickets on LH that had to be issued as paper.

The last few times I've had to get a paper ticket was because of a leg on LH. What's with that? Why do certain legs force "paper tickets" Anyone have some insight?

Quoting Civilav (Reply 3):
we now have to pay for the paper (3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !) and the ink cartridge

Each time I have had a paper ticket issued, I've had multiple sheets of itinerary issued to me accompanying it. But on the environmental note, at least the paper is recyclable--in my experience most carbon copies are not.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
a simple email confirmation sent directly to the customer

Much better for me and you, but many in the world have a different approach to technology Like this guy in Africa with his portable radio who has a completely different approach than an American / Canadian / European. Technology isn't necessary homogeneous. So a concern with eticketing... the doubts people have expressed here could hold true.

Interesting that there was already a thread in 2004 that confirms this has been a long standing project by IATA.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting Manu (Reply 13):
The last few times I've had to get a paper ticket was because of a leg on LH. What's with that? Why do certain legs force "paper tickets" Anyone have some insight?

Usually it is down to the ground handling provider at the airport. The system they use for check-in has to be connected to the electronic ticket hosting server of the airline, and in some cases this link has not been put in place yet. This is most often the case with codeshare partnerships, but can also be because of delays on the airport system side. Airlines are working flat out to get all their routes 100% e-ticket eligible, but it is a huge logistical effort involving lots of third parties, so it can be complicated.

Another reason for a flight not to be e-ticket eligible is if the travel agency market at one or other end of the flight is not able to issue electronic tickets - this could be the case if there is no IATA Bank Settlement Plan in place in that country (for paper tickets, this could be got around, but it is mandatory for e-tickets). Some countries such as Madagascar have had problems getting IATA to set up a BSP in their country so that the local carrier can migrate to electronic tickets.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
DLPMMM
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:30 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
It isn't - but there is a qualification. Paper tickets issued by travel agents will be disappearing - paper tickets will no longer be supported by the IATA BSP's or ARC clearing house. Airline tickets don't go through BSP's, and so airlines can continue to issue paper tickets on their own stock. For interline though, I think these will all have to be electronic.

I still don't understand how they are proposing to handle RTW tickets that exceed 16 legs and by their very nature have alot of interlining segments. It is easily possible that the carrier issuing the RTW ticket might only have a single segment flown on it's own metal, with an additional 20 or more segments interlining.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 15):
I still don't understand how they are proposing to handle RTW tickets that exceed 16 legs and by their very nature have alot of interlining segments. It is easily possible that the carrier issuing the RTW ticket might only have a single segment flown on it's own metal, with an additional 20 or more segments interlining.

The answer is, currently e-tickets can't handle more than 16 segs. The interline isn't a problem as long as the interline agreements exist, but it seems that the 16 segment upper limit (4 conjunction tickets with up to 4 coupons each) on an e-ticket is hard and fast. I'd have to ask an expert though.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
frontierflyer
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Civilav (Reply 3):
In the case of travel agencies, we now have to pay for the paper (3 sheets of letter size per passenger are used, no less, so talk about saving !) and the ink cartridge. Ditto for whoever is buying off the internet. You want your print-out.

Get a Laser Printer. Faster, Cost effective in the long term.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
The answer is, currently e-tickets can't handle more than 16 segs. The interline isn't a problem as long as the interline agreements exist, but it seems that the 16 segment upper limit (4 conjunction tickets with up to 4 coupons each) on an e-ticket is hard and fast. I'd have to ask an expert though.

That is exactly my point. Do they have a plan to make tickets in excess of 16 legs e-ticket compatable? Otherwise they will still need interline paper ticketing, unless they plan to eliminate RTW tickets.
 
ANother
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
imagine when some of the Chinese and other carriers with less advanced computer systems join the alliances.

IIRC China has already achieved 100% ET for domestic. Not a lot of interline there, but they were the first.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 19):
IIRC China has already achieved 100% ET for domestic. Not a lot of interline there, but they were the first.

That's easy, all Chinese carriers use the same res system and DCS. It's much easier when there's only one system involved.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
xero9
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:24 am

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm a little confused as to what they're actually eliminating.. Any time I've booked a flight it's online directly through the airline. When I arrive at the airport, I swipe my credit card through a machine that gives me a ticket, and I take it to the counter where I get a boarding pass.. Are they getting rid of either of these, both, or neither?

Again, sorry for my ignorance  Smile
 
RJNUT
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:31 am

and many interline tickets will be eliminated until the number of E ticket interline agreements are increased..the number of paper ticket agreements are in the thousands!

there will be a few bumps during the final transition, but all should be well eventually
 
JGPH1A
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Xero9 (Reply 21):
Any time I've booked a flight it's online directly through the airline. When I arrive at the airport, I swipe my credit card through a machine that gives me a ticket, and I take it to the counter where I get a boarding pass..

Looking at your profile I see you are quite young, and it is therefore possible that you've never actually travelled with a paper ticket.  Smile

What is being eliminated are the paper tickets that airlines and travel agents used to issue in fulfillment of an airline reservation. Electronic tickets are essentially exactly the same information as is printed on a paper ticket, just in electronic form. The airlines may call it "ticketless" travel but it isn't, they still need the ticket as proof that you have paid for your trip, and there are very complex electronic controls in place to make sure you can only use an electronic ticket once. When you fly, the check-in system flags your electronic ticket coupon as "checked-in" and then "flown", and once flown it is sent back to the issuing airline to be matched up against the original sale, and logged as earned revenue, and if any part of the journey was with a carrier other than the issuing carrier, more complex transactions occur for the transporting carrier to claim their part of the earned revenue from the issuing carrier.

All the complexity is necessary to allow airlines to continue with interline ticketing, which greatly facilitates travel. Without them, it would be seperate tickets (and therefore seperate fares) for each airline on your journey. Low cost carriers for the most part really are ticketless, i.e. they simply record that you have paid for your flight, and there's an end to it. Saves a lot of accounting hassles, but limits the options for the passenger to interline or change their plans and fly on someone else.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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JBo
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 5):
Another question: If someone needs to make an off-line reroute, say if the flight they booked is cancelled on a mechanical, are there systems in place to make sure the receiving airline will honor the reservation?

This is already in place with many airlines. Electronic tickets are rebooked, rerouted, and revalidated on other carriers due to irregular ops every day.

Currently, in the United States, I believe all the legacy carriers (not sure about CO off the top of my head), plus YX and F9 have interline e-ticket agreements and also interline electronic FIM (Flight Interruption Manifest) agreements.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
Why do you need three sheets of letter size paper per passenger?

Thats how thick 1 paper ticket is. They're pretty thick.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Leskova
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:01 am

I'll believe this deadline when it passes and no paper tickets get issued afterwards.

Quoting Manu (Reply 13):
The last few times I've had to get a paper ticket was because of a leg on LH. What's with that? Why do certain legs force "paper tickets" Anyone have some insight?

LH has actually just introduced a new reason for more paper tickets to be issued - the Rail & Fly offer that they've got out since a couple of weeks is something that can only be used on paper tickets, as the rail tickets (which are also issued on standard airline ticket coupons in that case) are not eticketable... yet...

And, just to point out, there's another type of ticket that will remain as paper ticket for a while - though those, just like airline-issued tickets, don't go through ARC/BSP: SATA tickets... although there are some SATA eTicket carriers already as well.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Analog
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
The answer is, currently e-tickets can't handle more than 16 segs. The interline isn't a problem as long as the interline agreements exist, but it seems that the 16 segment upper limit (4 conjunction tickets with up to 4 coupons each) on an e-ticket is hard and fast. I'd have to ask an expert though.

You can't be serious. Is this restriction real and, if so, will it change?

What genius designed this system? Almost all tickets have far fewer than 16 segments, but how hard can it be to make the systems handle a much larger number (say 255 or infinite)?
 
manu
Posts: 265
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 23):
Looking at your profile I see you are quite young, and it is therefore possible that you've never actually travelled with a paper ticket.

That's proof that I maybe should keep my paper ticket. Heck, I've even had a paper ticket that was hand written from SkyKing in the Caribbean (Turks and Caicos) with only two coupons (segments) possible.

Quoting Analog (Reply 27):
What genius designed this system? Almost all tickets have far fewer than 16 segments, but how hard can it be to make the systems handle a much larger number (say 255 or infinite)?

Analog, you obviously are savvy at programming and are thinking of a byte to keep track of records. It just isn't that easy. Airlines are very historic beasts that are difficult to change. Let me explain. If you own a single store and want to move from paper accounting to something computerized it is just one system to change. Even a chain of stores can be done one store at a time. An airline involves multiple destinations, multiple countries and interactions with multiple companies. You can't just change one location, all have to be changed at the same time, or at least coordinate together. And they need to communicate so that once you arrive 8 hours later across the Pacific they know who you are /what you need. Don't forget this has to happen securely too. If you think you can do this, you've gotta get a job with IATA.

My job is implementations of technology into mainly government organizations and I see such problems with change regularly. It'd be great to throw away everything and start fresh, just has to happen in phases. It will be solved eventually if there is a need. Who once said that 640kb was more than enough for a computer? Last I checked you can't even used 640kb on a camera or cell phone anymore.
 
ANother
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 26):
I'll believe this deadline when it passes and no paper tickets get issued afterwards.

Please read some of the previous posts. This notification is in respect of tickets issued by travel agents and settled through an IATA BSP. Paper tickets will continue;

By airlines who don't ever intend to go to e-ticketing (yes there are some)
By airlines for itineraries of more than 16 sectors.
By airlines, on behalf of agents, for interline journeys that require a paper ticket (agent still issues a electronic MCO)
By agents, if they have a direct settlement arrangement with an airline. (Would be on the airline's own paper)
Etc.

In respect of the deadline, I'm told that only IATA's AGM (Annual General Meeting) can extend it, and that meeting is next July - after the deadline has passed.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 26):
LH has actually just introduced a new reason for more paper tickets to be issued - the Rail & Fly offer that they've got out since a couple of weeks is something that can only be used on paper tickets, as the rail tickets (which are also issued on standard airline ticket coupons in that case) are not eticketable... yet...

DB is going e-ticket I think, pretty soon.

Quoting ANother (Reply 29):
By airlines who don't ever intend to go to e-ticketing (yes there are some)

Really ? Who are they ?

Quoting ANother (Reply 29):
(agent still issues a electronic MCO)

No such thing. Industry standard for EMD's haven't been fully defined yet. e-MCO is only in the German market I think.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ANother
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:09 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
Really ? Who are they ?

I'm not certain but I saw something on IATA's web-site that identified 31 airlines (in the BSPs) world-wide who don't intend to migrate to e-Ticketing. Tried to find it to link, but couldn't.

That was 31 out of a total of 344 airlines in BSP.

I know my terminology (e-MCO) wasn't correct, but understand that this 'thingy' will be available after 1 June 2008.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:11 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 31):
I know my terminology (e-MCO) wasn't correct, but understand that this 'thingy' will be available after 1 June 2008.

Fingers crossed, eh ? I know 1A plan to implement EMD next year, but still waiting for final IATA sign-off on the standards.

Quoting ANother (Reply 31):
That was 31 out of a total of 344 airlines in BSP.

They'll suffer hideously if they don't implement e-ticketing - how are they going to distribute ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ANother
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:20 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 32):
They'll suffer hideously if they don't implement e-ticketing - how are they going to distribute ?

Not certain, but they will be out of the BSPs I guess. They will have to put their paper tickets into their agents and they will have to submit individual sales reports like they did before BSP. I guess that these are all very small airlines who don't interline today, and provide mostly a point-to-point service.
 
Leskova
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:30 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 29):
Quoting Leskova (Reply 26):
I'll believe this deadline when it passes and no paper tickets get issued afterwards.

Please read some of the previous posts. This notification is in respect of tickets issued by travel agents and settled through an IATA BSP. Paper tickets will continue;

No need for me to read through the posts - I'm fully aware of who this applies to... and, still, I'll believe the deadline is serious this time, when it passes and no paper tickets get issued by travel agents (there, just so you don't think I'm still not getting the point that I was aware of before this thread was started).

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
DB is going e-ticket I think, pretty soon.

Yupp... I know.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
nubes
Posts: 41
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:41 am

Funny to realise we're the last generation who knows what a paper ticket is..

Anyone knows whether this applies to FIMs and MCOs/MPDs as well? Or are there any plans for this in the future..
 
CoolGuy
Posts: 366
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Nubes (Reply 35):
Funny to realise we're the last generation who knows what a paper ticket is..

How did paper tickets work if you wanted to get a ticket a day before the flight? What if the tickets were lost in the mail?
 
mandala499
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Nubes (Reply 35):
Funny to realise we're the last generation who knows what a paper ticket is..

That is why I keep my old international paper tickets... a relic of our aviation history... LOL (now where's my old Sabena, Pan Am, TWA and Viva Air tickets....)
Domestically, we still do paper tickets, Garuda offers e-tickets, IndoAirAsia and Mandala are e-tickets only. Others are beginning to look into e-tickets. Mind you, only Garuda (and maybe Merpati) are the local IATA member(s).

1 e-ticket only airline here has gone bust already... Air Efata... but its collapse got nothing to do with not using paper tickets...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
RobertS975
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:25 am

There is no such thing as a paperless ticket. My electronic tickets have more paper than I used to have when there were ticket coupons. There is the actual "ticket" with the ticket number, fare basis calculation etc. And there is usually an itinerary page. And then there are the boarding passes.

There may no longer be flight coupons, but there is more paper than ever!
 
AirScoot
Posts: 667
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RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 32):
Quoting ANother (Reply 31):
I know my terminology (e-MCO) wasn't correct, but understand that this 'thingy' will be available after 1 June 2008.

Fingers crossed, eh ? I know 1A plan to implement EMD next year, but still waiting for final IATA sign-off on the standards.

This is what I get for taking a few days off..  Smile ARC (not ATA as mentioned above) is supposed to be working on this whole thing in the US as well. As a matter of fact there is now an option here to go completely paperless (though the option does generate a lot of paper). Documents for issues such as service fees are being plated on ARC and settled with no actual document being generated anywhere. This next part I'm still rather confused on since I avoid anything MCO-like like the plague. MCOs for residuals are evil and must/will be destroyed.. but this is the best I've been able to glean from ARC. MCOs are being issued and the MCO number is tracked, but no document is issued. During the exchange process, the virtual MCO gets used based on document usage as tracked by the clearinghouse.

Quoting CoolGuy (Reply 36):
How did paper tickets work if you wanted to get a ticket a day before the flight? What if the tickets were lost in the mail?

You got them from a real live person who generated the ticket for you and handed it to you when you paid for it.. and if you were lucky enough to get one from someone like me, they had a big bruise on their non-writing (my left) hand from smacking the validator. If the tickets were lost in the mail you filed an application to refund the one that was lost, paid for a brand new ticket, then you got your money back from the first one less a nominal ($100-150) fee.

Quoting Nubes (Reply 35):
Anyone knows whether this applies to FIMs and MCOs/MPDs as well? Or are there any plans for this in the future..

Here a lot of carriers are releasing control on the eticket to the transporting carrier. I doubt that FIMs will ever really go away. MCOs issued by carriers here are already starting to go away. Instead of writing an MCO an e-document (usually a ticket with a fake flight number/city pair) is being generated for later use as an exchange.
 
NorthstarBoy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:53 pm

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting Nubes (Reply 35):
How did paper tickets work if you wanted to get a ticket a day before the flight? What if the tickets were lost in the mail?

most likely, unless you live in the same city as the agency and thus can walk in and actually pickup the ticket, it has to be done as a Prepaid where the agency calls in the ticketing information to the airline and they issue the ticket at the ticket counter on the agency's behalf, and they charge you 100 dollars for the privelege. In certain, limited circumstances, the ticket could be sent via express service (like you call it in the morning before departure and you're not leaving until the following evening)

as for lost tickets, in days gone past, if you didn't recive your ticket you or your agency would have to do what's called a Lost Ticket Applicaton, wherein you/they provide the airlne with certain information from the ticket (ticket number, date os issue, base fare, breakdown of taxes, fare basis codes) and they'll either simply reissue it at the airport or they'll allow you to purchase a new ticket for the same price as the original and then the original ticket will be refunded 120 days later (they have to wait to see whether or not the original "Lost" ticket is used or not. that may sound strange, but there's fraud out there, there are people out there who do their best to get around the rules, and as a result life for the rest of us is a little more complicated)

One thing i've never understood, some airlines, like MH, call themselves a world class airline, yet, as a travel agent, i can't issue an eticket on them through my system. Other airlines, such as LH, still require paper tickets when certain destinations are in your itinerary. I would love to see IATA mandate that all of their member airlines must be 100 percent eticket capable system wide, i would also like to see the GDS's mandate the same thing, that participating carriers must be 100 percent eticket capable system wide.
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
CoolGuy
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:13 am

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:43 am

I'm still amazed how anything was accomplished before e-tickets and even online check-in. During the past year, the closest to a flight that I've checked in is 23 hours. pda.continental.com really helps out!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 39):
MCOs for residuals are evil and must/will be destroyed.

How can you ? How else do you return the unused value of a partially used or exchanged ticket ? Bring on EMD's, but until the standards are ironed out were stuck with the good ol' MCO.

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 39):
Documents for issues such as service fees are being plated on ARC and settled with no actual document being generated anywhere

That's easy, because service fees are considered as consumed at time of issue - there is no need to track flown usage against booked revenue before banking them as earned revenue. It's more of a problem when it comes to chargeable services like payments for seating or UM fees.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 40):
I would love to see IATA mandate that all of their member airlines must be 100 percent eticket capable system wide,

Can't be done, for the reasons stated above. Some travel agency markets can't support e-ticketing because either they don't have a BSP or their BSP isn't fully electronic yet. Similarly some countries like Russia don't allow electronic tickets (although I believe that has changed recently). Also some airports don't have automated passenger handling systems for check-in, without which it is difficult to accurately update e-tickets when passengers fly. Hell, a fair few airports out there don't even have electricity, making e-tickets somewhat problematic. We have recently implemented e-ticketing for a carrier in Kazakhstan, but they can't go 100% e-ticket until they get comms lines installed to some of their more remote airports, so they can install a DCS.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 40):
i would also like to see the GDS's mandate the same thing, that participating carriers must be 100 percent eticket capable system wide.

Same reason. It's not up to the GDS's to force the pace of e-ticket route eligibility. The airlines control it, and it's up to them. We can enable it and support it, but we can't make it happen.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18997
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:49 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 38):
There may no longer be flight coupons, but there is more paper than ever!

But it's cheaper paper and more environmentally-friendly than the multiple carbon-backed coupons of a paper ticket with their various security features to reduce the risk of counterfeiting etc.
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:19 am

I try, if I possibly can, to buy tickets straight from the airline I will fly with. Additionally, I also try if I possibly can, to get normal IATA paper tickets issued.

There is a certain stability in paper tickets that I appreciate. E-tickets are fine, but not my first choice. Yes, I have nothing against paying a little more for a genuine airline-issued paper ticket.

MmmmMMmm  Smile

saludos

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
OrdfrBdl
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:34 am

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
DB is going e-ticket I think, pretty soon.

Any chance the SNCF (French Railways) will also accept e-tickets? Whenever you book a TGV as an Air France flight as part of a multi-segment trip, the whole trip is currently issued as a paper ticket...

Would be fairly easy I think... all you'd need to do is go to the SNCF counter at the station, show your e-ticket and ID and they could print off a SNCF-compatible ticket...
From CDG to BDL, now posting from between ORD and DPA...
 
manu
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:22 am

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 44):
There is a certain stability in paper tickets that I appreciate. E-tickets are fine, but not my first choice. Yes, I have nothing against paying a little more for a genuine airline-issued paper ticket.

Funny, I think the exact opposite. I guess I am too trusting of technology? What if there was a power failure. If the flight operations could do everything they needed to safely leave, they could -- but if you only had an eticket I guess you would have no proof. Theft scares me the most with a paper ticket. While useless to someone else (as they check IDs), the problems associated with that situation is what I fear.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:08 pm

Over here, you loose your paper ticket you are screwed big time! Agents don't like handling "lost ticket claims"... especially those "use it or loose it" fares!

With E-Tickets, you loose it, as long as you remember your flight details, go to the airline or your issuing agent, and get it re-printed (which pax and agents can do easily whoever does the e-booking). I've had cases where e-ticket printouts were lost upon arrival at the airport and all the pax need to do is go to the airline office, provide their ID, and the e-ticket was printed out.

As an agent, there's an added bonus with e-tickets... you can extend your clientelle to anywhere where they have an email. I've issued non CGK tickets to non-CGK pax... just email the PDF of the e-tickets ! LOL! Better assistance coverage for the pax as well if you got friends in agencies outside town. This is why we love the Garuda and Mandala E-Tickets...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
AirScoot
Posts: 667
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: IATA: Paper Tickets Going Away!

Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 42):
How can you ? How else do you return the unused value of a partially used or exchanged ticket ? Bring on EMD's, but until the standards are ironed out were stuck with the good ol' MCO.

I said *I* avoid them.  Smile

Quoting Manu (Reply 46):
Quoting Asturias (Reply 44):
There is a certain stability in paper tickets that I appreciate. E-tickets are fine, but not my first choice. Yes, I have nothing against paying a little more for a genuine airline-issued paper ticket.

Funny, I think the exact opposite. I guess I am too trusting of technology? What if there was a power failure. If the flight operations could do everything they needed to safely leave, they could -- but if you only had an eticket I guess you would have no proof. Theft scares me the most with a paper ticket. While useless to someone else (as they check IDs), the problems associated with that situation is what I fear.

There are some carriers that I've paid the fee at the airport to get the coupons converted to paper only because of past bad experiences. The major pro for having a paper ticket is in the event of a major service disruption where the paper is worth 80x it's weight in gold. I finally gave up and just stopped flying said carriers to alleviate the hassle. There's usually two places to get somewhere.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 42):
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 40):
i would also like to see the GDS's mandate the same thing, that participating carriers must be 100 percent eticket capable system wide.

Same reason. It's not up to the GDS's to force the pace of e-ticket route eligibility. The airlines control it, and it's up to them. We can enable it and support it, but we can't make it happen.

Here's the major rub. Take a look at DL service to India up until early last year. Delta required a paper ticket and blamed it on their ground handler.. who blamed it in Delta.. who blamed it on (insert vague problem here). Turned out that Delta hadn't finished working out their infrastructure needs at the airport in the first place. If a carrier isn't willing to pay for necessary improvements in an outstation and it would be cheaper to keep the logistics paper based.. they will.

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