imiakhtar
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:35 am

Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:34 pm

Just read it on the BBC website, KU's order for the A320 and B787 through leasing firm ALAFCO has fallen through.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6966403.stm
Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:37 pm

Nothing to do with the development issues surrounding the 787 at the moment. Seems to be a disagreement over financing.
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:00 pm

This will go through eventually - they will do the paperwork properly and resign it no worries.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
HiJazzey
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:00 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:01 pm

Who said anything about development issues???
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 3):
Who said anything about development issues???

I think he was being pre-emptive before someone mentions that as an excuse.
 
oldeuropean
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:19 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 3):
Who said anything about development issues???

Among others, take look into this discussion:

Boeing Faces Hurdles, Opportunities On The 787 (by NYC777 Aug 21 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Axel

[Edited 2007-08-28 14:58:24]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:07 pm

I am sorry, but you are incurring in wishful thinking. Note also that 6 A320 are affected !

The underlying reason is a dispute between Kuwaiti political personalities inside Government, Parliament as well as both in the state owned Airline and Alafco. See between other:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...B3E-4401-4F8F-A7DD-0984322BFD51%7D
where it is written:

Quote:
Relations between Kuwait's 50-member National Assembly and the state-run airline have been strained since the airline announced its plan in June to buy the aircraft from Alafco.

The alleged reason for buying these aircraft from Alafco instead the manufacturers was, as written in
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKL284841320070828?rpc=44

Quote:
Kuwait Airways officials told Reuters in June the order would be worth around $3 billion and that the airline placed the order with Alafco rather then manufacturers because it wanted to get them earlier.

Unconfirmed but rather credible rumors add that the main problem was that the Alafco prices agreed by KA were far higher than the named by the manufacturers during past negotiations !!

IMHO this problems will be solved but it will take time. In the meantime, Alafco could yield their early delivery slot to support Boeing B787 deals, between other eventually with BA..

TKV
 
oldeuropean
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:19 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting TKV (Reply 6):
I am sorry, but you are incurring in wishful thinking. Note also that 6 A320 are affected !

I am sorry, but I just only answered his question.

I know that the KUs leasing or it's cancellation has indeed nothing to do with this rumours. Are you the offically new Halibut/Aminobwana? What about your wishful thinkings?  Yeah sure

Axel  banghead 

[Edited 2007-08-28 16:47:38]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 7):
What about your wishful thinkings?

As it seemed you related the B787 first flight issue with the KU cancellation, with would be wishful thinking, I posted the facts. Could you provide 2 or 3 examples of my wishful (i.e. unsupported) thinking ??

By the way, I resent your personal insinuations. .

TKV
 
elvis777
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:07 am

In the context of this thread I dont understand your comment OldEuro

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 7):
What about your wishful thinkings? Yeah sure

....

Waht do you mean?

Elvis777
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
 
phlwok
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 11:41 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:09 am

Did this order actually cancel with Airbus and Boeing, or does ALAFCO just have 19 more aircraft to lease out now? Or, I guess, back to KU assuming that they renegotiate?
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:32 am

The deal appears to be cancelled following Kuwaiti parliament action. This is consistent with the traditional parliamentary restrictions which have put the airline under constant scrutiny since the mid 1990s.

If you ask me, it was a wise move by the Kuwaiti Parliament. As Kuwait is not experiencing an oil / gas windfall as some neighoring countries are, it might be incapable to pump yet more money into its loss-making national airline.

I am yet to hear of any repositioning strategies for Kuwait Airways, to help it turn a profit and to become relevant on the regional scale. Kuwait Airways appears to be stuck in the mid 1990s.

Cheers
If there is a will, there is a way
 
FAEDC3
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:11 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:33 am

I´m sure there will be more than enough companies interested in getting those slots (both A320 and B787). ALAFCO should have no problem allocating them with other customers.
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:41 am

If people would actually READ these articles, they would know it's a Kuwaiti governmental/financing issue. It has nothing to do with the 787 or Boeing OR Airbus. Why do people like Oldeuropean have to make out every freaking story to be an A versus B thread? Someone kill this one before it get's any nastier.
 
bok269
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:43 am

Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
domokun
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:46 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14):
Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?

I would suspect those planes are worth more to them than just canceling the order...
 
FAEDC3
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:11 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14):
Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?

Why would they cancel? those a/c are hot!! those slots should be a great commodity, isn´t that the reason KU went with ALAFCO? to get an early delivery?
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting PHLwok (Reply 10):
Did this order actually cancel with Airbus and Boeing, or does ALAFCO just have 19 more aircraft to lease out now? Or, I guess, back to KU assuming that they renegotiate?



Quoting FAEDC3 (Reply 12):
´m sure there will be more than enough companies interested in getting those slots (both A320 and B787). ALAFCO should have no problem allocating them with other customers



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 14):
Does this mean that ALAFCO will just redistribute the planes to other carriers or they will cancel the order with Boeing?

ALAFCO would be unwise cancel the order to the manufacturers, as to have ensured early slots is a very valuable asset. Boeing, at the present moment, would probably be happy if they do so, as have these slots available would help them to ensure larger contacts. But of course, Boeing and Alafco could collaborate, as done with ILFC with the LAN Agreement.
That is, if the KU order is not reinstated, through Alafco or directly to the manufacturers.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 11):
If you ask me, it was a wise move by the Kuwaiti Parliament. As Kuwait is not experiencing an oil / gas windfall as some neighbouring countries are, it might be incapable to pump yet more money into its loss-making national airline

I would agree with you in a normal case. But knowing how things are there, probably the reason was more an interest conflict between Alafco and the Government.. But I am sure the government wants a deal !! Kuwait is profitting from the oil boom as well as the neighbors, but I assume you mean that the money surplus is smaller, as they have a lot more inhabitants.

TKV
 
bok269
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting Domokun (Reply 16):

I would suspect those planes are worth more to them than just canceling the order...

That's what I thought/
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:17 am

ALAFCO wont cancel the order at all. They will have no problems placing these planes.
 
User avatar
glideslope
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
ALAFCO wont cancel the order at all. They will have no problems placing these planes.

Probably already have. I don't see ALAFCO waisting time over terms with Kuwait with 320's and 787's.  checkmark 
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
development issues surrounding the 787 at the moment

A bit of an exaggeration.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:28 am

The airline can't possibly hope to stayed competetive with the likes of Emirates without the new planes!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:51 am

Maybe they'll re-new the contract and add in some Super Hornets to replace their legacy Hornets to boot!?
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting TKV (Reply 6):
Unconfirmed but rather credible rumors add that the main problem was that the Alafco prices agreed by KA were far higher than the named by the manufacturers during past negotiations !!

Very likely that's correct. That's normal. First the politicians see a price on a bare plane. Then a contract is negotiated including training, spareparts stock, MX tools, ground computer shop for flight logs and all those extras which are needed to fly the planes. And price has of course gone north.

The problem has probably already been solved. A new contract with existing slots on bare planes only. Then next year they will sign a new contract on the extras only.

In the meantime some stupid politicians managed to make their mark in the press. Game over.

That trick is used by even the largest corporations in the world when there is a procurement dispute. You manipulate a primary contract to fit the "political" circumstances and postpone the unavoidable consequences to another fiscal year after having circled the money around on some irrelevant accounts. And everybody save their faces.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
azhobo
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:34 am

Gee if this is truly a cancellation it will be interesting to see who puts it on the books first.
 
7cubed
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 5):
Among others, take look into this discussion:

Nothing new here.  banghead 

Quoting TKV (Reply 8):
By the way, I resent your personal insinuations

 checkmark 

This guy's confrontational...Why bring Halibut & Aminobwana into this?

What Boeing needs to do is get these 12 - 787 slots on ebay. If they're getting $10,000+ for a set of biz ticks imagine what these slots would bring.

IMO this deal will be done again.
joe
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:28 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 25):
Gee if this is truly a cancellation it will be interesting to see who puts it on the books first.

From Boeing's point of view there is no cancellation, as long as Alafco does noy decide to do such, which, as several members noted, is very improbable. The only cancellation existing is the of the KU's LOI to Alafco.

TKV
 
zillox
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:53 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:38 pm

What do you mean with no oil/gas windfall. Kuwait is also benefiting from the high oil prices, not?

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 11):
Let's fly around the world!!!!
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 11):
As Kuwait is not experiencing an oil / gas windfall as some neighoring countries are, it might be incapable to pump yet more money into its loss-making national airline.

May some privatising is in order? Did wonders for BA among others.
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: Kuwait Airways A320 And B787 Order Cancelled

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:24 pm

Sooner as expected, and seeming to confirm what I wrote in my former posts, between other reply 17 in the sense that the root of the problem was the unwillingness of government and parlament to finance a purchase through Alafco, now KU (with the backing of the government) is already actively and directly negotiating with Boeing and Airbus to reactivate the deal
It will be interesting to see if Alafco:
- will be willing to cancel their purchase to Boeing (eventually also to Airbus) and transfer the slots directly to KU,
- or they will maintain the orders, in such case the KU order would be additional ones with later delivery slots.
- in the latter case, eventually they could negotiate to support some larger B787 deal, by leasing these early slot aircrafts to the corresponding airline, which could be BA. (as ILFC did in the case of LAN)

See
[url] http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...sNews/idUKL2990859620070829?rpc=44 [/url]
Boeing, Airbus in Kuwait plane-order talks-papers
Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:39AM EDT

TKV