Cactus742
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AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:59 am

The Arizona Republic reported the new service, giving FL two destinations from PHX (ATL is the other).

http://www.azcentral.com/business/co...r/articles/0828biz-talker0829.html

They'll be going up against US and YX with this service.
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
 
as739x
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:09 am

If you can't buy them, compete with them!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
vivavegas
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:11 am

Saw this one coming, Honestly I think all Saver destinations will be targeted. FLL next?

Craig
MKE
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:18 am

Since NW is now a YX "friend".. will we see NW offer complimentary service PHX-ATL..

DL offers a 6am, 7am, 11am, 12:50pm, 3:20m, and 11:40pm flight from PHX.. so will NW come in and offer the 8am, 9a,. 12pm, 2pm, 5pm, and 7pm flight.. basically cutting off FL? Seems like something they would do.. Just a thought..
Aiming High and going far..
 
as739x
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):

There not that freindly!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
MKENut
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:16 pm

YX is charging $348 round trip for MKE-PHX. I bet YX will lower fares to around $240 roundtrip to compete with FL. Good news for MKE PAX.  Smile
 
SANFan
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:09 pm

I've gotta say to AirTran: why not start MKE-SAN (a route with 175 O&D pax/day per DOT 1Q07) that 1) has no n/s service currently and 2) YX is supposedly getting very close to starting up, rather than doing a seasonal PHX flight that already has 2 n/s competitors? (And I'm very sure that due to the alternate airport syndrome, there are a lot of SAN-bound pax every day who begin their journey in the MKE-area but fly either MKE-LAX or ORD-SAN and therefore never show up in the stat's as MKE-SAN traffic. In other words, there is enough traffic to support a daily, year-round n/s flight between SAN and MKE.)

Just a thought...

bb
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:18 am

I'm not sure what FL is thinking with this one. This is the kind of route (much like some of their west coast routes ex-IND) where YX (and probably US as well) will enjoy a significant yield premium, the route will become less and less seasonal, and eventually disappear. If FL doesn't think they can compete against WN and HP on PHX-IND, I'm not sure why they think they can compete with YX and HP ex-MKE.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
This is the kind of route (much like some of their west coast routes ex-IND) where YX (and probably US as well) will enjoy a significant yield premium

FL's looking for vacation travelers who won't pay a premium on this route. I wouldn't be surprised if they start offering some PHX services to counter G4 just like they've done to LAS. G4 at RFD, FL at MKE.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 8):
FL's looking for vacation travelers who won't pay a premium on this route.

Can they make money with bad yields? I wonder if they need to remove J from some of their aircraft if their business plan is leisure routes.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
asuflyer05
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:05 am

FLs strategy is a pretty good one. They can go in and compete with NW on the MKE routes. If NW wants to retaliate, they will most likely need to launch a flight on one of FLs Point-to-point routes because of competition with DL.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
Since NW is now a YX "friend".. will we see NW offer complimentary service PHX-ATL..

And compete against FL, DL, and US? I doubt it. NW doesn't have the crews to support the flights they have now never mind adding flights. If they were to launch a response against FL they would need to take the crew hours from another area of their system to make it work.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Can they make money with bad yields? I wonder if they need to remove J from some of their aircraft if their business plan is leisure routes.

It's been working for the past 10 years or so. J-class at 12 seats is the right size. They account for a few wealthier flyers -- often businessmen on routes that are mostly vacation travel -- who will buy a more expensive seat for the comfort. I think it's something YX has figured out mixing Saver and Signature. It's something Ted has yet to figure out. Ted, for instance, doesn't grasp that business folks going to MCO or LAS for a convention don't want to sit in coach and would like the upgrade options, or the outright F seat. It gives FL some flexibility.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 11):
They account for a few wealthier flyers -- often businessmen on routes that are mostly vacation travel -- who will buy a more expensive seat for the comfort.

Do you have any idea what FL's LF in J is like? I don't fly them enough to make a good guess.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
Do you have any idea what FL's LF in J is like? I don't fly them enough to make a good guess.

Nothing official, just my observations. DCA-ATL, ATL-MCO, MCO-IAD, MCO-BWI, BWI-ATL, ATL-MSY, ATL-LGA, ATL-BOS, MCO-BOS have all been 90%+ in every flight I've taken on those routes. I will say that the Saturday only DCA-MCO o/w was never very good in either section. A few times I was the only person in it, and I would always buy Y and upgrade on it. When I've used DAB, it was <50% on DAB-ATL. And, of course, it's impossible to say who was an upgrade versus who was full-fare. When I flew on the July 4 weekend, I booked Y and upgraded on ATL-DCA and the entire plane's LF was under 25%.
 
BP1
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:25 am

Thank you YX. Any additional service and competition on any routes to and from PHX is appreciated. Now if we could get some competition on non-stop PHX-BOS (not PVD) but PHX-BOS that would be ideal.

Cheers,
BP1
"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
 
atlaaron
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:26 am

Are passengers in MKE really going to fly FL? After all wasn't it the residents of MKE that really helped fight the merger?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 15):
Are passengers in MKE really going to fly FL?

The extremely price-conscious passengers will, just like in every other market FL serves. Unfortunately, FL is unlikely to pick up many high-yielding passengers at MKE.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
The extremely price-conscious passengers will, just like in every other market FL serves. Unfortunately, FL is unlikely to pick up many high-yielding passengers at MKE.

Disagree. FL has shown its interest in MKE by attempting to buy out YX. Judging by comments in the MKE paper, FL has made some friends in MKE. Additionally, the name is out there and will attract more than just the "extremely cost concious." FL will not pick up many high-yielding passengers because the offering out of MKE is still too slim to get FFs to switch from YX or NW. However, FL makes a nice yield on its higher fare Y seats, which will sell out just the same. FL can also afford to lose out on high yield passengers if it forces YX's yields to plummet. Remember, FL has a significant CASM advantage over YX. And don't underestimate YX loyal flyers who are annoyed with the changes made at YX -- especially the loss of all Signature cabins (even if not on the PHX route). Many of these flyers may determine that if they're going to fly what they now perceive as "just another airline," they might as well fly FL.

[Edited 2007-08-30 20:29:53]

[Edited 2007-08-30 20:30:13]
 
asuflyer05
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting BP1 (Reply 14):
Thank you YX. Any additional service and competition on any routes to and from PHX is appreciated. Now if we could get some competition on non-stop PHX-BOS (not PVD) but PHX-BOS that would be ideal.

Apparently there were not too many people who appreciated the extra competition B6 offered on PHX-BOS.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran To Start PHX-MKE Seasonal Service Dec. 20

Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 17):
FL can also afford to lose out on high yield passengers if it forces YX's yields to plummet.

How much did the last NW focus city attempt affect YX's yields?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more

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