Worldliner
Topic Author
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:23 pm

Landing At Night

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:23 pm

last night i came back from malaga on monarch. i landed at manchester and its the first time that i have landed at night, and the runway lights were not on. i was very surprised of this, and it seemed to have folled the pilot who landed halfway down the runway, and had to brake pretty seriously and with full reverse thrust on. the aircraft was a a321 and as you know, not the quietest aircraft when reserve thrusting.

i was surprised however that although the runway lights were not on the taxiway lights were. so the wasnt a powercut or anything like that, they just decided not to put them on.

i was wondering if anyone else had experienced this, as i though it was a hazard and possibly against rules.

thanks

chris
@777Worldliner
 
theginge
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:53 am

RE: Landing At Night

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:30 pm

I think the landing lights would have been on, some runways have different lights to others. You should try going to places in the CIS and Middle east at night. A lot of them don;t have centre line lights so it is like landing in a black hole!!

I don't think a pilot would have been fooled by lack of lighting, that wouldn't have been a factor in landing where you think he did. And how do you know he was halfway down the runway from the cabin?

[Edited 2007-08-29 15:37:30]
 
Worldliner
Topic Author
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:23 pm

RE: Landing At Night

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:37 pm

because i know manchester ringway like the back of my hand, he touched down at the end of terminal 3 which is about half way down the runway. the plane was heavy aswell, which is why i was surprised at the speed of the descent and landing.
@777Worldliner
 
theginge
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:53 am

RE: Landing At Night

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:56 pm

You know it better than me then as I have only been there 4 times!
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Landing At Night

Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:13 pm

Pilots do not intentionally land on runways that are not lighted.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
musapapaya
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:50 am

More info would be glad of loads etc, and if it is last flght, pilots tend to brake hard to get off runway asap.
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
corey07850
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:33 am

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
Pilots do not intentionally land on runways that are not lighted.

I have... it's good practice. Granted, I wasn't flying an airliner though
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4455
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting Worldliner (Thread starter):
i landed at manchester and its the first time that i have landed at night,

If it was the first time you experienced a night landing, then what do you have to compare, or base your observations on? In my experience, unless you are staring straight down the runway (in other words, seeing from the pilots perspective) runway lights aren't always that noticeable because they are somewhat widely spread out down the runway. Taxi lights are often spaced closer together making them easy to spot from all angles.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:10 am

The runway lights would have been on, I am very sure. You cannot land on a runway at night without lighting.

I can tell you that from experience that at the front (Pilots seats) runway lights are very visible whereas not so much when viewed from the cabin.
 
nema
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:18 am

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 7):
I can tell you that from experience that at the front (Pilots seats) runway lights are very visible whereas not so much when viewed from the cabin.

This was my first thoughts too. Ive landed at Manchester at a similar time only less spectacular and no reversers used.

The pilot certainly would have gotton anything he had requested on approach anyway, if such as lighting had been an issue it would have been made adequate.

I would like to know if there are any restrictions to night traffic at Manchester though. I know that from one end (not sure of geography) there are residential areas on final approach.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
pwm2txlhopper
Posts: 1141
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:40 am

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting Worldliner (Thread starter):
the aircraft was a a321 and as you know, not the quietest aircraft when reserve thrusting.

I've never heard of "reserve" thrust? What's that? Is that for short field performance? I have heard of reverse thrust though, and that's not that loud on the A320 series if you compare it to aircraft a generation or two earlier.... So maybe that's not what you meant? Just wait until your first night landing when the control tower is on fire! That happens even a little more frequently than when you land with no runway lights at night! Sometime the pilots even use the glare from the blaze to land safely when, coincidentally, the runway lights are also out.
[

[Edited 2007-08-30 05:58:20]
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 10):
I've never heard of "reserve" thrust? What's that? Is that for short field performance? I have heard of reverse thrust though

Simple inference and non-hardheadedness will tell you that he did in fact mean reverse thrust.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting Worldliner (Reply 2):
because i know manchester ringway like the back of my hand, he touched down at the end of terminal 3 which is about half way down the runway. the plane was heavy aswell, which is why i was surprised at the speed of the descent and landing.

It would appear that you do not know Manchester as well as you claim. Look at any chart and you will see that Terminal 3 goes no further west than the end of Pier A ( the old domestic pier) - this is between links G & F. Now look at where the majority of flights touch down - I'm assuming that you were landing on 23R - and you will see that this is normally around Link G. Okay your flight might have had a slight 'float' as it flared and then the infamous 23 'hump' could have had an effect, but your stating that you were 1/2 way down the runway is incorrect.

If I remember correctly the runway edge flights may be slightly recessed and directional - ie you can not see them from the side. As has already been said, there is no way that any pilot would land on an unlit runway. If the lighting had failed at any stage of the approach then the standard procedure would have been to 'go around' until the problem was fixed.
 
Cross757
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:32 pm

RE: Landing At Night

Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:49 pm

I believe some runway light designs are such that they can only be viewed from "head on", and not so much from the side. Where a taxiway intersects with the runway, the edge lights are either non-existant or they are of the "flush" design, like centerline or touch-down zone lighting, which might account for why it seemed that the lights were off. But then, I was not there, so this is just a guess on my part...you know that airport better than I do. Out of curiosity, where were you sitting in the aircraft: in front of the wing? Behind it? Hopefully you will get the chance to witness a night landing from the flight deck some time...it's quite a treat.

In my opinion, I don't think the pilot of a commercial aircraft would intentionally make a night landing with non-operational runway lights, unless under abnormal circumstances, such as an emergency.

Who is online