MSYtristar
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NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:21 am

Sort of funny how I just found this out today after I just replied to a thread in regards to the same subject, but it looks like CR9's will be replacing DC-9-30's on the DTW and MSP runs starting in December.
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:43 am

Well that could be trouble as the CR9s don't count as mainline. With only three mainline to MEM that would put MSY
under the 30 flights a week threshold and that gets it outsourced.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 1):
With only three mainline to MEM that would put MSY
under the 30 flights a week threshold and that gets it outsourced.

Okay. Confused. Is the criteria that they have to have less than 30 mainline flights a week or 50? I do know of a couple of stations that are more than 30 but less than 50 that are outsourced.. just wondering...

BTW.. I checked NWA website on Dec 18 and it still showed DC9s to MSP.
Aiming High and going far..
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:58 am

The 50 flights per week was the initial threshold to set who stays and who goes. Once the new contract started there were two new thresholds started. One, the 30 flights per week, allows NWA to outsource the station. Two, 70 flights per week. and the station has to be opened back up as mainline.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
BTW.. I checked NWA website on Dec 18 and it still showed DC9s to MSP

The schedule starts on Dec 19th
 
Tom in NO
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
it looks like CR9's will be replacing DC-9-30's on the DTW and MSP runs starting in December.

I had a feeling we'd be seeing them here before too long.

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 1):
under the 30 flights a week threshold and that gets it outsourced.

what do you mean outsourced? Most of the local NW people have been here for many, many years, and I can't imagine they'd be too geeked about losing their positions or having to transfer.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:28 am

Same as where I used to be and the same at many other stations. LOTS and lots of senoirity has been lost!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
but it looks like CR9's will be replacing DC-9-30's on the DTW and MSP runs starting in December.

with no change in frequency?

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 1):
and that gets it outsourced.

to whom?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 6):
to whom?

It may be Pinnacle, Mesaba, WFS ,Swissport or anyone who puts up the lowest bid to work the operation, just like when they outsourced the other stations.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 6):
with no change in frequency?

No change in frequency, a net reduction of around 30 seats per flight.

MSY:
DTW -> 1x DC-9-30 to CRJ-900
MSP -> 1x DC-9-30 to CRJ-900
MEM -> unchanged 3x DC-9-30/40/50

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 6):
to whom?

Depends who may bid on the contract - could be Mesaba, DGS, Swissport, or whatever 3rd party outfit that operates in MSY.

If the CR9's are a seasonal reduction for Dec/Jan, then nothing will happen. If they decide to bring back mainline on DTW/MSP later on in the winter/spring. If this is year-round, then it could happen.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 1):
Well that could be trouble as the CR9s don't count as mainline. With only three mainline to MEM that would put MSY
under the 30 flights a week threshold and that gets it outsourced.



Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
If the CR9's are a seasonal reduction for Dec/Jan, then nothing will happen. If they decide to bring back mainline on DTW/MSP later on in the winter/spring. If this is year-round, then it could happen.

Stations that were not originally outsourced are safe, they won't be outsourced. This could also just be a seasonal reduction, as it is MSY is no where near the original agreed outsource levels. As it is some of the outsourced stations that are not up to the "enough flights" are going back to NW mainline employees anyway.
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
Stations that were not originally outsourced are safe,

No they are not. Any station that operates 30 or fewer flights per week for a continuous 9 months can be out sourced, with the exception of JFK and one other station I cannot remember at this time. It is in the contract with the IAM.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 10):
o they are not. Any station that operates 30 or fewer flights per week for a continuous 9 months can be out sourced, with the exception of JFK and one other station I cannot remember at this time. It is in the contract with the IAM.

Thats a new one because the agreement was 51 flights, otherwise FAR, OMA, and so forth would have been safe. Finally from what I got from a NW manager was it was on the date that was specified by the company at the time. He said it wasn't continuous. Finally again, a few stations are going back to NW mainline employees even though they still don't meet the thresh-hold. IE FAR and DLH were mentioned specifically along with a few other stations that did not meet their Audits.
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 11):
, otherwise FAR, OMA, and so forth would have been safe

CRJs donot count, only E175s and larger aircraft. Many stations have been rumored to be returned,in fact a total of 17.
But rumors and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee,just not at Starbucks.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 12):
CRJs donot count, only E175s and larger aircraft. Many stations have been rumored to be returned,in fact a total of 17.
But rumors and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee,just not at Starbucks.

This sounded pretty solid coming from the source, FAR is because its a diversion station and the way worldwide runs it down there I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't meet their Audit.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
DTW -> 1x DC-9-30 to CRJ-900
MSP -> 1x DC-9-30 to CRJ-900

Sad to see the relative lack of capacity still here, even two years later.  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
SANFan
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:22 am

I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused (as usual  Wink ) Could someone loaded with NW-knowledge please clarify whether or not SAN is outsourced (or could be.) We have about 6 daily NW mainline flights (4x MSP + 2x DTW) which, if 2nd grade was in fact successful for me, is 42 flights per week. Now that's about as good as it gets -- sometimes it seems to dip a bit below that but I don't think it has gone below 30 for several years.

So is the cutoff 30 or 50? Actually, the real question: is SAN a NW-operated station or not? I assume it is and always has been but we sure seem to be on the cusp of "maybe not" unless maybe some other criteria are involved such as actual # of pax flown, type of a/c, status of the city involved, etc...

Of course if NW would connect SAN with MEM (again), or add HNL service (as they have from every other major city on the Left Coast, including PDX), or maybe think about Asia or ??? (when the 787 is flying NW colors), then I wouldn't even be having to ask this question.  stirthepot 

Oh, the curse of being an aviation enthusiast in and loving San Diego....

(Sorry MSY, this momentary hijacking is now over and the thread may now return to its original upright and locked position!)

bb
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:27 am

San Diego is an outsourced station.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:00 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
Sorry MSY, this momentary hijacking is now over and the thread may now return to its original upright and locked position!)

That's ok man. We've hijacked our fair share of threads over the years. Don't worry about it.

In the end, NW never was really HUGE in MSY. Before K they were running between 7 and 9 flights a day depending on the time of the year...usually a mix of DC-9 and 319/320, although the 757 operated the evening MSP flight from time to time to accomadate cruise traffic.

With the tourism industry still reeling, I was sort of expecting to see the mainline flights to DTW and MSP go away...those are probably really thin O&D markets as it is. But there's always the chance of seasonal service upgrades, which NW has done here for years.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:02 am

In mid-Feb, NW will add back a second daily DTW flight on a DC-9, in addition to the CR9. Does not appear to be any seasonal upgrade on MSP, which will stay as a single daily CR9.

In mid-Feb 2008:
DTW: 1x CRJ-900, 1x DC-9
MSP: 1x CRJ-900
MEM: 3x DC-9

As a fun fact, MSP-MSY is currently the longest DC-9 route in the system, toping out at 1,040 miles, edging out MSP-AUS by 5 miles. DTW-MSY is likely #3 at 926 miles.

NW has been rapidly pulling the DC-9's off of the longer stage lengths in the past few years as the economics on the longer range flights rapidly deteriorate due the increased fuel burn. There are very few routes left on the DC-9 over 700 miles. Routes like MSP-DFW/AUS/MSY have been slowly replaced with a mix of Airbus / CRJ-900 / E-175's which are far more efficient aircraft on 1,000 mile flights. Same with most of the DTW-Florida flying. The DC-9 still have decent economics on flights < 1.5 hours.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:34 am

I see the CRJ-9 is coming into GRR the end of October on the NWA sched
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):
As a fun fact, MSP-MSY is currently the longest DC-9 route in the system, toping out at 1,040 miles

I've taken that one a few times.

First time in 1996...full lunch service (I think it was a hot Italian panini sandwich)....very nice flight. That was right around the time the new interiors were installed on the planes. Then I flew it a couple of more times roundtrip in 2002...again, nice flights, although the full meal service was by them a thing of the past.  Wink

Incidentally PSU...just wanted to apologize for my smart ass comments directed towards you on a recent thread...not called for at all.
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 19):
I see the CRJ-9 is coming into GRR the end of October on the NWA sched
safe

One is coming in Oct operating GRR-MSP 330pm departure another in Dec GRR-DTW 12pm departure
The 330pm msp departure replaces a DC9 and the 12pm departure replaces a CRJ-200
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 17):
That's ok man. We've hijacked our fair share of threads over the years

..."years" cher?

"Every time a non-hub gets an intercontinental nonstop" is more like it  Smile
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 22):
Every time a non-hub gets an intercontinental nonstop" is more like it

That's why I said "over the years". It has taken place many times.  Smile
 
STJ
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 12):
CRJs donot count, only E175s and larger aircraft.

I am assuming you mean CRJ 200's not 900's as the the 900's have the same number of seats as the E175
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 23):
That's why I said "over the years".

..I know, but I was emphasizing the greater frequency... besides, isn't that what we like?  Wink
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 25):
..I know, but I was emphasizing the greater frequency... besides, isn't that what we like?

You better believe it, brother.  Wink
 
paladin87
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting STJ (Reply 24):
I am assuming you mean CRJ 200's not 900's as the the 900's have the same number of seats as the E175

NO The CRJ900s donot count. go figure?
 
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modernArt
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RE: NW CR9's To MSY Starting 12/19

Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):
DTW-MSY is likely #3 at 926 miles

Houston - MSP clocks in at 1,037 miles according to Flight Memories.