SNATH
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How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:58 am

Hi all,

Does anyone know how well Finnair is doing on the HEL-BOS (via ARN) flight? A couple of friends flew on it last summer and they said that the flights were less than half empty. This was great, as they had lots of space to stretch and lie down, but maybe it doesn't bode well for the future of that route.

Thought I'd ask, given that this is a flight I might consider taking in the future.

Thanks,

Tony
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EXAAUADL
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:11 am

Is it a 757? I bet it isnt doing too well...HEL is so far east for decent connections to anywhere except Russia/Former USSR
 
jimbobjoe
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
HEL is so far east for decent connections to anywhere except Russia/Former USSR

Isn't it, however, not a bad place, because it's so far north, for connections to India?
 
swiftski
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
HEL is so far east for decent connections to anywhere except Russia/Former USSR

Europe ex BOS -> AMS, LHR, MAN, FRA ... any others apart from HEL?

Edit: add Italy and Iceland

[Edited 2007-08-29 22:31:29]
 
SNATH
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
Is it a 757?

Yes.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
.HEL is so far east for decent connections to anywhere except Russia/Former USSR

Define "anywhere"!!! If you mean North America, sure. But, HEL is nicely located for flights from Europe to Asia. It's not an accident that most of Finnair's long-haul fleet flies to Asia.

Tony
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swiftski
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
It's not an accident that most of Finnair's long-haul fleet flies to Asia.

Exactly; it's their flagship. Not many other places in Europe where you can get to PEK in 7 hours.
 
Humberside
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:07 am

AY serve BOS as a charter flight dont they?
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SNATH
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 6):
AY serve BOS as a charter flight dont they?

It's considered a "leisure" flight, yes.

Tony
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andaman
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:31 am

Next summer HEL-BOS will be non stop, 2x weekly it seems. Those are one class 'holiday flights', with limitted service on 752.


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Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
HEL is so far east for decent connections to anywhere except Russia/Former USSR

Talking about passengers from US yes, but as said above their focus is elsewhere at the moment, in the Europe-Asia traffic.
JFK/BOS-HEL-DEL/BOM looks good on the map, perhaps they can make it work in the future.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 3):
Europe ex BOS -> AMS, LHR, MAN, FRA ... any others apart from HEL?

Edit: add Italy and Iceland

SNN, DUB, ZRH, CDG, MAD spring to mind
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
okay
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:45 am

These flights are very special and one needs to know a little history of Finland to understand why such flights are mainly done. Most of the passengers on these flights are people who have immigrated to America long long time ago (or their parents or their grand parents etc.), and they come to visit their relatives and villages where their roots are. I think same phenomenon can be found in Sweden, reason why the flight is done via ARN. It was fun to check in passengers on these flights. A guy between 90 and grave would come to the check in desk and speak Finglish to me. Bedroom would be petiroom and car kaara... And so cheerful! If you want to learn more about the phenomenon there is a short article about it on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_American. As long as there is a demand for these special seasonal flights, Finnair will do them.

Same kind of flights have been done to Miami, which used to be very popular amongst the senior citizens of Finland some 15-20 years ago. Also SFO was served seasonally due to high demand of American Finnish people wanting to travel between the two countries. The history has seen such flights (one off or a group of few flights operated during the demand period, usually Summer) to be done to many parts of Canada, too. These flights are not really targeted for business passengers, they are in deed operated with Finnair's B757s which is an aircraft type Finnair uses for charter flights. There is no Business class on these aircraft. One can, however buy a normal Y ticket for the flight. However the travel agent is adviced by Finnair to mention the fact that this is not a normal scheduled flight.

The America in other ways is not really that appealing for Finnair long haul operations, they are heavily focusing on the Asian flights. To connect from America to Central Europe through Helsinki.. Well there is some of this traffic, too, but a fact is Helsinki is too up North to be the most convenient choise. However, the new routes opened to India have been found by some Americans to connect from Finnair's JFK flight on to a flight to India. Will this phenomenon be further studied by the company and will action be taken, remains to be seen.

With regards, okAY

[Edited 2007-08-30 00:11:58]
 
andaman
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting AY" class=quote target=_blank>OkAY (Reply 10):
The history has seen such flights (one off or a group of few flights operated during the demand period, usually Summer) to be done to many parts of Canada, too.

Little me made this trip to Vancouver back in 1978, non stop from HEL on AY DC-8... that was sooo exitting!
Similar service to Toronto continues next summer too.

Thank you OkAY for clearing up what it's all about.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
swiftski
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 9):
SNN, DUB, ZRH, CDG, MAD spring to mind

Cool. I wasnt being definitive, I was genuinely asking.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:52 am

BOS - LHR, DUB, SNN, West Knock, GLA, MAN, CDG, MAD, Azores, Rekyjavic, Rome, Milan, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich, HEL, Zurich.
 
Sukhoi
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:50 am

Summer 2005 Finnair flew twice a week HEL-NYO-BOS
Summer 2006 twice a week .HEL-ARN-BOS
Summer 2007 three times a week HEL-ARN-BOS
Summer 2008 no more traffic? ARN-BOS only nonstop HEL-BOS twice a week
 crying  not good for Stockholm-Arlanda Airport
 
andaman
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 14):

not good for Stockholm-Arlanda Airport

I don't think ARN is loosing anything.
AY's 752 should stay in short-haul charter traffic only.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
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turk223
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:21 am

I just flew on the service last week. Both flights were about 50% full... The 757 is a bit cramped (it would be pretty uncomfortable if the flights were full), but the service was very pleasant... We made connectinos to PRG on CSA (code share with AY).

At HEL, there were many flights to Asian cities... The entire ramp seemed to be covered with AY planes...

All in all, pretty OK...

The Swissport staff that handle the AY flights at BOS were not too "customer service-minded" - makes for a bad first impression of AY (but once on board, the FAs made up for it!)...

By the way, Prague is incredible!
 
andaman
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 16):
I just flew on the service last week. Both flights were about 50% full... The 757 is a bit cramped (it would be pretty uncomfortable if the flights were full), but the service was very pleasant... We made connectinos to PRG on CSA (code share with AY).

Those 757's (7) belong to AY's charter division, AY fly them to the holiday destinations in Southern-Europe and in winter destinations in Thailand, Brazil, Caribbean etc. The 29" seat pitch sure is cramped, comparing to AY's regular 32".

[Edited 2007-08-31 03:37:47]
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
MAH4546
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting OkAY (Reply 10):
Same kind of flights have been done to Miami, which used to be very popular amongst the senior citizens of Finland some 15-20 years ago.

It actually still is. Lake Worth, Florida still has one of the world's largest Finnish diaspora.
a.
 
okay
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:10 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):

Yes true. Lake Worth is popular among the Finnish people. I think this is why at some point the 757s were flying to Fort Lauderdale Int. and not to Miami.

Talking about diasporas, there is also quite healthy diaspora of Finnish people in Brazil. I had never even heard of this until I visited my friend in Rio and he said oh we will take you to little Finland! I wondered what in the world are they talking about and could not believe my eyes when we entered a little willage all built like it belongs to some Santa Claus movie! Ont op of the gate there was a sign Little Finland. All the streets had Finnish names and it even had Posti, operated by the local Post office though, not the Finnish one lol.

This is really off topic, I know. But just came to my mind. I talked to a guy who kept a Finnish restaurant and spoke fairly good "latin accent" Finnish, and he said they have many times asked AY to start flights to Sao paolo or Rio (this willage is situated quite between the two cities) but it has never happened. I guess the demand is just not there, meaning the diaspora is not big enough (anymore) to support these kind of flights.

With regards, okAY
 
SNATH
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 16):
The Swissport staff that handle the AY flights at BOS were not too "customer service-minded"

Downright rude is the expression you're looking for.

Tony
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killjoy
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting Andaman (Reply 17):
Those 757's (7) belong to AY's charter division, AY fly them to the holiday destinations in Southern-Europe and in winter destinations in Thailand, Brazil, Caribbean etc. The 29" seat pitch sure is cramped, comparing to AY's regular 32".

For me it's not really the pitch that's a problem. The seats totally kill my back, however. Let's hope they decide to change them now that they're replacing the ones on the Airbus fleet. Then maybe I can finally start choosing holiday trips that don't begin in Bangkok Big grin (MD-11)

It would also be nice if they just dumped the 757 fleet and replaced it with the A350-800. Asia could easily support that size, and the A321 could handle European charters.
 
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turk223
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 20):
Downright rude is the expression you're looking for.

Actually, that's more accurate - I was just trying to be nice in case there were any Swissport employees here!

The gate agents were so rude at BOS! We actually joked about it when we realized that neither of them spoke (or God forbid smiled). We "played a game" to see if either of us could make her speak - I said a cheery "How are you?" and a "Thanks!" when I passed by her...

Not one word from her.

Then I lost my bag on the way back to Boston; no agent to be found, no apologies (just a comment that I should get rid of the bag after I told her that it was also lost on my last trip)....

How the hell do they keep their jobs?

And, shouldn't Finnair (and others) worry about the negative image it can give them?
 
SNATH
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 22):
And, shouldn't Finnair (and others) worry about the negative image it can give them?

I'm sure Finnair would love to hear from you on this. Maybe, drop them a short e-mail?

Tony
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gunsontheroof
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting AY" class=quote target=_blank>OkAY (Reply 10):
Also SFO was served seasonally due to high demand of American Finnish people wanting to travel between the two countries.

I didn't realize that was the motive behind the service. My great uncle used to go out of his way to fly AY from SFO after non-stop service to SEA was cut in the 1980s. I think he was the only AY loyalist in my family, everyone else just started flying SAS.  Wink

Quoting Andaman (Reply 11):
Little me made this trip to Vancouver back in 1978, non stop from HEL on AY DC-8... that was sooo exitting!

Didn't realize AY flew to YVR at one point. How long did that last?
 
okay
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 24):

You're great uncle had a very good taste then!   

The SEA route was interesting in a way that AY had a crew base there for 3 years. The crew were not locals, but actually Finnish people who moved to America, most of them with their families. When the base was ceased, not all came back as three years is quite a long time and people had settled down in America, spouses found jobs etc.

okAY

[Edited 2007-08-31 18:18:59]
 
andaman
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 24):

Didn't realize AY flew to YVR at one point. How long did that last?

It was a charter flight, they used to have those a couple per summer that time. The non stop flight last something like 9h I think. Quite a bit Finnish immigrants live in Canadian British Columbia, like some from my family.
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Silverstreak
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:48 am

I agree with OkAY about Finnish-Americans - my great grandparents came to the US and finally settled down. Their children spoke both Swedish and Finnish, though they definitely considered themselves Finnish. They spoke their language as much as they could, and while I don't speak Finnish myself, when I do hear it - it can only be Finnish to my ears. I finally flew to Finland on Finnair from JFK from SFO to visit the village where they were from. My flight was a great intro to Finland and the cabin crew were very patient with the older pax and their "Finnish" (esp. on a packed MD-11).
 
andaman
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting Silverstreak (Reply 27):
Their children spoke both Swedish and Finnish, though they definitely considered themselves Finnish.

In Finland the Swedish language is the second official language and the first language for many Finns, so speaking Swedish isn't necessarily anything 'less' Finnish.

Quoting Silverstreak (Reply 27):
My flight was a great intro to finland and the cabin crew were very patient with the older pax and their "Finnish" (esp. on a packed MD-11).

I have some relatives in Canada who speak that lovely 'Finglish', mixed Finnish and English. One little girl complained his brother put her 'kotton kändin karpitsiin' - cotton candy to garbage...
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gunsontheroof
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting AY" class=quote target=_blank>OkAY (Reply 25):
The SEA route was interesting in a way that AY had a crew base there for 3 years. The crew were not locals, but actually Finnish people who moved to America, most of them with their families. When the base was ceased, not all came back as three years is quite a long time and people had settled down in America, spouses found jobs etc.

Wow, I heard that before. Very interesting! I can vaguely remember seeing those DC-10s at SEA when I was a kid...I've been meaning to dig through the old family photos to see if I can find any of them.

Quoting Andaman (Reply 26):

It was a charter flight, they used to have those a couple per summer that time. The non stop flight last something like 9h I think. Quite a bit Finnish immigrants live in Canadian British Columbia, like some from my family.

I see. Did AY run charters elsewhere in North America during the summer back then?

Quoting Andaman (Reply 28):

I have some relatives in Canada who speak that lovely 'Finglish', mixed Finnish and English.

Finglish is awesome. It's even funnier when the Finnish isn't fluent.
 
andaman
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 29):

I see. Did AY run charters elsewhere in North America during the summer back then?

There must have been, but I don't remember where did they fly. Toronto must have been one destination.
Atleast Suomi-Seura - Finland Society used to organize these 'immigrant flights' then.

Finland Society: "The Finland Society is an interest group providing expertise and service to Finns living or moving abroad or returning to Finland."

http://www.suomi-seura.fi/index.php?request=1&language=EN

[Edited 2007-09-02 01:47:16]
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
okay
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RE: How Is Finnair Doing With HEL-BOS?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:44 am

My mum remembers to have done flights in late 70s and 80s to at least Dulut and Detroit as well. Operated with the DC-8.

About the SEA base, my mum corrected my memory, the SEA based crew would fly the a/c (in deed DC10 those days) down to LAX and back, not to SFO as I remembered. After SEA was droppped LAX became non stop before the service was discontinued all together.

With regards, okAY

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