ETStar
Topic Author
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:22 am

Ethiopian is dropping Amsterdam as of the Winter schedule, but is doubling Brussels bringing the latter's frequency to 6x per week.

http://www.africanflyer.com
 
AF022
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 am

This is surprising, but maybe a cost-cutting move? Ethiopian flies to a lot of places in Europe, maybe too many, and perhaps AMS was the weakest link?
 
A388
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:30 am

I have read a few times that Belgium has very good ties with African countries, especially the former French African Colonies. These good ties might explain the increase in frequencies for BRU (?)

A388
 
FlySSC
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 2):
I have read a few times that Belgium has very good ties with African countries, especially the former French African Colonies. These good ties might explain the increase in frequencies for BRU (?)

Ethiopia has never been a French Colony !

Ethiopia was one of the very few African countries that was not colonized. However, it i was occupied by Italy from 1935 through 1941, just after the start of World War II. Mussolini invaded Ethiopia in 1935 and proclaimed the creation of an "Italian Empire" in Italian East Africa comprising Ethiopia, Italian Somalia and Eritrea.


Indeed, Belgium has good ties with former Frech colonies in Africa, mostly located in the west part of the continent, mostly because there is a lot of immigrants in the French speaking Belgium, coming from this French speaking African countries.

[Edited 2007-09-02 21:41:54]
 
sw733
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 1):
I have read a few times that Belgium has very good ties with African countries, especially the former French African Colonies. These good ties might explain the increase in frequencies for BRU (?)

Belgium and places with former Belgian ties do indeed have very good ties - just look at SN Brussels' list of African destinations (from Wikipedia):

Angola
Luanda (Quatro de Fevereiro Airport)
Cameroon
Douala (Douala Airport)
Yaoundé
Côte d'Ivoire
Abidjan (Port Bouet Airport)
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Kinshasa (Kinshasa International Airport)
The Gambia
Banjul (Banjul International Airport)
Guinea
Conakry (Conakry International Airport)
Liberia
Monrovia (Roberts International Airport)
Kenya
Nairobi (Jomo Kenyatta International Airport)
Morocco
Casablanca (Mohammed V International Airport)
Rwanda
Kigali (Kigali International Airport)
Senegal
Dakar (Dakar-Yoff-Léopold Sédar Senghor International Airport)
Sierra Leone
Freetown (Lungi International Airport)
Uganda
Entebbe (Entebbe International Airport)



Now compare this to a list of Ethiopian destinations in Africa (outside Ethiopia):

Angola
Luanda (Quatro de Fevereiro Airport)
Burundi
Bujumbura (Bujumbura International Airport)
Cameroon
Douala (Douala Airport)
Chad
Ndjamena (N'Djamena International Airport)
Congo
Brazzaville (Maya-Maya Airport)
Congo Democratic Republic
Kinshasa (N'Djili International Airport)
Djibouti
Djibouti (Djibouti-Ambouli International Airport)
Egypt
Cairo (Cairo International Airport)
Gabon
Libreville ( Libreville International Airport)
Ghana
Accra (Kotoka International Airport)
Ivory Coast
Abidjan (Port Bouet Airport)
Kenya
Nairobi (Jomo Kenyatta International Airport)
Malawi
Lilongwe ( Kamuzu International Airport)
Mali
Bamako (Senou International Airport)
Nigeria
Lagos (Murtala Mohammed International Airport)
Rwanda
Kigali (Kigali International Airport)
Senegal
Dakar (Dakar-Yoff-Leopold Sedal Senghor International Airport)
Somaliland
Hargeisa ( Hargeisa International Airport)
South Africa
Johannesburg (OR Tambo International Airport)
Sudan
Khartoum ( Khartoum International Airport)
Tanzania
Kilimanjaro (Kilimanjaro International Airport)
Dar es Salaam (Dar es Salaam Airport)
Togo
Lomé (Lomé-Tokoin Airport)
Uganda
Entebbe/Kampala (Entebbe International Airport)
Zambia
Lusaka (Lusaka International Airport)
Zimbabwe
Harare (Harare International Airport)

There are indeed quite a few similar cities, so this could be a way Ethiopian is trying to steal people away from SN Brussels.
 
AF022
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 4):
There are indeed quite a few similar cities, so this could be a way Ethiopian is trying to steal people away from SN Brussels

It is probably easier to steal passengers from SN than KL!
 
lumumba
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:21 am

Hi everybody.
Out of the transit passengers I think that they are the same markets.
If you take in consideration that they have not so much transit passengers from Amsterdam then Brussels is cheaper.
Plus don't forget that they also put there cargo base in Brussels.
Regards
Patrice
 
cedarjet
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 4):
this could be a way Ethiopian is trying to steal people away from SN Brussels.

I can't think of a more difficult objective. I mean, SN Brussels are a bit flakey and everything but the Belgians - Sabena really - own Africa, even in the new incarnation, if you're flying to French-speaking Africa you think of the Belgians. I suspect it's more just reacting to demand. ET isn't an option, it's too far east and most BRU-bound pax on SN aren't going to Belgium, they're connecting on to somewhere else. So with ET you'd have to go to Addis, then to Brussels, then onto a different airline to get to Geneva or Stockholm or London. With SN you just change in Brussels.

I don't know why ET don't fly to Toronto, huge Ethiopian population and they all visit home every year. Btw the community there, like the Iranians in LA, seem to strongly favour Lufthansa.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
MSYYZ
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7):
I don't know why ET don't fly to Toronto

They have recently ( few weeks ago ) applied to serve YYZ . Along with the hope to serve other US and Asian cities

Ethiopian Airlines has applied to serve Toronto, Canada from its hub in Addis Ababa, and “hopes to fly to New York JFK, Chicago O’Hare and Atlanta” in the United States. The airline’s CEO also states that the airline is considering the opening of new routes to India and China.

[Edited 2007-09-02 22:34:04]
A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
 
ETStar
Topic Author
Posts: 1850
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting Lumumba (Reply 6):
Plus don't forget that they also put there cargo base in Brussels.

Yup ... and flower export season is just coming up.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7):

I don't know why ET don't fly to Toronto, huge Ethiopian population and they all visit home every year. Btw the community there, like the Iranians in LA, seem to strongly favour Lufthansa.

LH is a favourite of all expat Ethiopians: convenient connections, sane arrival/departure times at/from ADD (check BA, MS, TK, IY for a comparison). It is also one of the foreign airlines that has consistently served ADD so there is some loyalty there. KL could eventually become a favourite as well, with service that is quite comparable to that of LH.

ET to Toronto via a European city would be great ...
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 5):
Quoting SW733 (Reply 4):
There are indeed quite a few similar cities, so this could be a way Ethiopian is trying to steal people away from SN Brussels

It is probably easier to steal passengers from SN than KL!

I'd have to agree with you two! This is a great strategic move for ET and I'm sure that they will do well. With a lower cost structure than SN as well as tickets at the right price, I'm sure they will be good feeders for their pan-African flights!

Quoting ETStar (Reply 9):
LH is a favourite of all expat Ethiopians: convenient connections, sane arrival/departure times at/from ADD (check BA, MS, TK, IY for a comparison). It is also one of the foreign airlines that has consistently served ADD so there is some loyalty there. KL could eventually become a favourite as well, with service that is quite comparable to that of LH.

ET to Toronto via a European city would be great ...

KL is already a favorite of many Ethiopians flying back home with usually lower priced tickets than LH. The problem is getting these tickets before someone else who's using AMS as a connecting point.
 
ETStar
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 10):

KL is already a favorite of many Ethiopians flying back home with usually lower priced tickets than LH. The problem is getting these tickets before someone else who's using AMS as a connecting point.

Sadly for those of us in no-KLM-service Western Canada (am in YYC), the only option to get to AMS and take advantage of lower fares you mention have us going through MSP first, on Northworst. Not a big fan of two customs/immigration checks on the way back from ADD. I'd get on KL any day though...
 
A388
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
Ethiopia has never been a French Colony !

Relax! Did you hear me say Ethopia was a French Colony? Read before you reply....

A388
 
dkny
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:18 pm

Very surprised to see AMS go.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:11 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
Ethiopia has never been a French Colony !

Relax! Did you hear me say Ethopia was a French Colony? Read before you reply....

I am very relaxed. I DO read before I reply ...

And when I read your reply # 2, I understand that your explain the increased frequencies to BRU by the fact that Belgium has very good ties with African countries, especially the former French African Colonies (sic). As the Topic of this subject is about Ethiopian dropping AMS in favour of increased flights to BRU, I am sure that I am not the only one to understand that you suggest Ethiopia could be one of those former French Colonies.

Maybe that's not what you meant, and in that case, you could consider also you might not have expressed yourself properly.
 
A388
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):
Maybe that's not what you meant, and in that case, you could consider also you might not have expressed yourself properly.

I have expressed myself correctly. I repeat my question: Did you hear me say that Ethiopia was a former French Colony? No. If someone says that a country has good ties with most African countries, especially former French Colonies, does this translate to ALL African countries being former French Colonies? No.

A388
 
behramjee
Posts: 4343
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RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 8):

Ethiopian Airlines has applied to serve Toronto, Canada from its hub in Addis Ababa, and “hopes to fly to New York JFK, Chicago O’Hare and Atlanta” in the United States. The airline’s CEO also states that the airline is considering the opening of new routes to India and China.

Its good to know that ET is interested in flying to North America but it must be careful on how it handles its expansion as it mustn't expand too rapidly. Currently, it flies to IAD via FCO with full 5th freedom rights. As for YYZ, there is no bilateral treaty in place between ADD & YOW, thus not permitting ET to fly there until one is negotiated. It would be best if ET delayed their ambitious plans until their B 787s arrive which means 2009 at the earliest.

Also, it would be wise for them not to consider ORD and instead fly to MIA which has a huge African population in the MIA/FLL area. MIA has already offered KQ and ET an attractive package to launch new flights to the city such as one year's worth of landing fees being waived as well as other discounts on ground handling services.

As for how their USA flights should be routed, ET should look into flying to MIA via ACC (5th freedom rights available as the U.S. and Ghana have an open skies agreement) with the Boeing 787-900 three times a week initially to test the market and then expand further based upon the route's performance.
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 2):
I have read a few times that Belgium has very good ties with African countries, especially the former French African Colonies. These good ties might explain the increase in frequencies for BRU (?)

Partly yes, but also due to the ties Belgium has with its own former colonies; Burundi and Rwanda.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
Indeed, Belgium has good ties with former Frech colonies in Africa, mostly located in the west part of the continent, mostly because there is a lot of immigrants in the French speaking Belgium, coming from this French speaking African countries.

Very true, not to mention those all important former Belgian colonies.
 
AF022
Posts: 1637
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 16):
it flies to IAD via FCO with full 5th freedom rights

Really? Then why don't they carry passengers?

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 16):
Also, it would be wise for them not to consider ORD and instead fly to MIA which has a huge African population in the MIA/FLL area

MIA before ATL or ORD or YYZ or HOU? No way.
 
behramjee
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 18):
Really? Then why don't they carry passengers?

this route flown by ET has been allowed by the Italian Govt to carry 5th freedom passengers since mid 2006...before then it wasnt.
 
ETStar
Topic Author
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 16):

Its good to know that ET is interested in flying to North America but it must be careful on how it handles its expansion as it mustn't expand too rapidly. Currently, it flies to IAD via FCO with full 5th freedom rights. As for YYZ, there is no bilateral treaty in place between ADD & YOW, thus not permitting ET to fly there until one is negotiated. It would be best if ET delayed their ambitious plans until their B 787s arrive which means 2009 at the earliest.

No 5th freedom for ET on FCO-IAD. Never has been.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 16):

Also, it would be wise for them not to consider ORD and instead fly to MIA which has a huge African population in the MIA/FLL area. MIA has already offered KQ and ET an attractive package to launch new flights to the city such as one year's worth of landing fees being waived as well as other discounts on ground handling services.

I am sure ET knows its market best. Also, however good the package may be, if there is no traffic out of it, then it ain't worth it.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 16):

As for how their USA flights should be routed, ET should look into flying to MIA via ACC (5th freedom rights available as the U.S. and Ghana have an open skies agreement) with the Boeing 787-900 three times a week initially to test the market and then expand further based upon the route's performance.

...
 
dkny
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:00 pm

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:07 pm

I think YYZ and JFK are top of the list in North America. I doube we will see any other routes for a while in the Americas. I think IAD is being scaled down to 5 a week begining October.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15322
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting ETStar (Reply 20):
No 5th freedom for ET on FCO-IAD. Never has been.

Are you sure? I thought that was changed recently, and was even briefly available for sale?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LH459
Posts: 793
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:41 am

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
and was even briefly available for sale

I can confirm that, because I checked the flights in Sabre as soon as the fifth freedom was announced. The timings were terrible for IAD-FCO pax, though. I checked again recently and found that IAD-FCO availability on ET had been withdrawn.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
LIPZ
Posts: 483
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:40 am

I guess this is the related thread that you are looking for. ET Granted Rights To Fly Italy-USA. (by Nycfly75 Mar 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
dkny
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:00 pm

RE: Ethiopian Dropping Amsterdam

Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:00 am

Official press release from Ethiopian
"Ethiopian Airlines will increase frequencies to Brussels from the current three to six flights a week effective October 28, 2007 and the service to Amsterdam will be discontinued effective same date."

http://ethiopianairlines.com/news/report.aspx?nid=182

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