JoKeR
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Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:05 am

Not your everyday headline, but one that is certainly "different" if not weird.

And if I may strongly suggest to the Nepalese to try and improve on maintenance skills rather than slaughter innocent animals in the future...  banghead 

Officials at Nepal's state-run airline have sacrificed two goats to appease Akash Bhairab, the Hindu sky god, following technical problems with one of its Boeing 757 aircraft, the carrier said on Tuesday.

Nepal Airlines, which has two Boeing aircraft, has had to suspend some services in recent weeks due the problem.

The goats were sacrificed in front of the troublesome aircraft on Sunday at Nepal's only international airport in Kathmandu in accordance with Hindu traditions, an official said.


Full story: http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2177043,00.html
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
AirCop
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
And if I may strongly suggest to the Nepalese to try and improve on maintenance skills rather than slaughter innocent animals in the future... banghead

I suppose whatever works  ashamed 
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:20 am

Hmmmm...... I guess that's why I preferred to fly TG when leaving KTM.

When I was about to buy a ticket POK-KTM I went to the airport first to see which aircraft looked best. Outcome: Buddha Air with their B1900's. The alternative would have been a ramshackle Necon HS748...


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captainsimon
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:22 am

Why Oh why can any forward thinking logical intelligent person think that killing a few animals in front of a B757 will cure technical problems that the plane has had.

What a world we live in.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting Captainsimon (Reply 3):
Why Oh why can any forward thinking logical intelligent person think that killing a few animals in front of a B757 will cure technical problems that the plane has had.

What a world we live in

Tradition mate...Never mess with tradition!!! If they believe giving a sacrifice to the Gods will make that 757 work better, then good for them. Same reason why airlines cristen or even have there new airplanes blessed, just for tradition!!! Of course in a technical world, we all know its not going to perform miracles for the aircraft  Wink
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JoKeR
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 4):
Tradition mate...Never mess with tradition!!! If they believe giving a sacrifice to the Gods will make that 757 work better, then good for them. Same reason why airlines cristen or even have there new airplanes blessed, just for tradition!!! Of course in a technical world, we all know its not going to perform miracles for the aircraft

Very well said, and although we are used to symbolic aircraft ceremonies, animal sacrificing or similar gestures leave us awed - simply because they are not part of our norms and cultures. Bottom line - ceremony is one thing, but believing that the same will actually perform "miracles" is another!
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
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yowza
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 5):
Very well said, and although we are used to symbolic aircraft ceremonies, animal sacrificing or similar gestures leave us awed - simply because they are not part of our norms and cultures. Bottom line - ceremony is one thing, but believing that the same will actually perform "miracles" is another!

It's not meant to conjure up a miracle. Rather it is an offering, nothing more. I have seen such a sacrifice made, it's quite troubling for the uninitiated to see such a thing. And no it's not a barbaric slaying.

YOWza
 
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TWA757
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:07 am

I'm all for doing whatever it takes to keep an aircraft in good working order, but, in my opinion, there is no excuse for the slaughter of innocent beings who can't speak for themselves -- especially not in the 21st century.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:11 am

So thats what the Truckload of Sheep outside the A380 plant were doing there....  Wink
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
remcor
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting TWA757 (Reply 7):
I'm all for doing whatever it takes to keep an aircraft in good working order, but, in my opinion, there is no excuse for the slaughter of innocent beings who can't speak for themselves -- especially not in the 21st century.

I'm sure they ate the damn things afterwards. In that case what's so immoral about it? Unless you're a vegetarian, I don't see how you can pass judgment on them.

My wife is from a Central Asian country and they sacrificed a goat during our wedding ceremony process. Everyone ate it (it tasted really good, actually!). Are you saying if they killed it beforehand then it would be ok, but killing it during a ceremony makes it immoral?
 
JETnyc
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:17 am

The goats wud prolly be killed any way....
 
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TWA757
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Remcor (Reply 9):
I'm sure they ate the damn things afterwards. In that case what's so immoral about it? Unless you're a vegetarian, I don't see how you can pass judgment on them.

I am a vegetarian. I don't feel that I'm passing judgment on a group of people, I'm just saying I think the slaughter of innocent beings is wrong, in any situation, whether or not it's based on a tradition.
 
remcor
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting TWA757 (Reply 11):

I am a vegetarian. I don't feel that I'm passing judgment on a group of people, I'm just saying I think the slaughter of innocent beings is wrong, in any situation, whether or not it's based on a tradition.

Well, I'll give you that. At least you're being morally consistent. I might not fully agree with it, but I can see where you're coming from.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
So thats what the Truckload of Sheep outside the A380 plant were doing there.... Wink

Nice!
 
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TWA757
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting Remcor (Reply 12):
I might not fully agree with it, but I can see where you're coming from.

I appreciate that -- to be honest, after reading this board for a couple years and only recently becoming a member, I was worried I'd find my way into ugly conversations that lacked respect. So thanks!  Smile
 
macc
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:38 am

as long as Boeing isnt delivering its aircraft alonng with a flock of goates for maintenance...
 Big grin
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greasespot
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:47 am

If they slaughter the goats AND fix the airplanes no problem....The problem comes when they slaughter the Goats INSTEAD of fixing the planes....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:57 am

What an ignorance! Every competent engineer knows that you have to install a couple of these on the aircraft to catch the gremlins! (Preferably near the captain's seat)  Wink



Jan

[Edited 2007-09-04 20:58:48]
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yowza
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 15):
If they slaughter the goats AND fix the airplanes no problem....The problem comes when they slaughter the Goats INSTEAD of fixing the planes....

haha indeed

Quoting Macc (Reply 14):
as long as Boeing isnt delivering its aircraft alonng with a flock of goates for maintenance...

That would be amusing. I'm assuming it wouldn't take long for a Boeing goats vs Airbus goats thread if that were to happen.

Jokes aside though, it's sad what Nepal has become. All the promise of the late 70s has been for nothing. The country is in far worse shape 27 years on and continues to slide. RA has suffered due to the lack of progress in the country. It makes you wonder how much longer RA will remain a viable option. My 2c: Pretty soon the carriers from the gulf and India will have Nepal all wrapped up and there will be no wiggle room for RA.

YOWza
 
baron95
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
Officials at Nepal's state-run airline have sacrificed two goats to appease Akash Bhairab, the Hindu sky god, following technical problems with one of its Boeing 757 aircraft, the carrier said on Tuesday.

Nepal Airlines, which has two Boeing aircraft, has had to suspend some services in recent weeks due the problem.

The goats were sacrificed in front of the troublesome aircraft on Sunday at Nepal's only international airport in Kathmandu in accordance with Hindu traditions, an official said.

Two comments:

1 - The proper way to sacrifice animals for airplanes is to throw them into the turbine intake or shoot them into the windshield. That is what the FAA/EASA/JAA require.

2 - If this works, I can see a large order for goats from the NWA maintenance dept to sacrifice to their DC9s.
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TeamAmerica
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
So thats what the Truckload of Sheep outside the A380 plant were doing there....

Tragically, they didn't slaughter those sheep. Their fate was...much, much worse. duck 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
fanofjets
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
So thats what the Truckload of Sheep outside the A380 plant were doing there....



Quoting YOWza (Reply 17):
That would be amusing. I'm assuming it wouldn't take long for a Boeing goats vs Airbus goats thread if that were to happen.

Actually, isn't it Boeing goats vs. Airbus sheep?

Now, if someone were to sacrifice a Boeing 757 to assist a stubborn goat, I would have cause for concern....  Smile

No disprespect meant with my joking, folks. I have had a terrible week and needed to release some frustration. On a practical note, I agree with all sides, as I both respect cultural traditions and speak out against any inhumane treatment of animals. As usual, this is no black-and-white issue.
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RussianJet
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting TWA757 (Reply 7):
there is no excuse for the slaughter of innocent beings who can't speak for themselves -- especially not in the 21st century.

Have to disagree there. I like eating meat, and in reasonable quantities and as part of a balanced, varied diet it is good for me.

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
in accordance with Hindu traditions

And that's another fine reason right there.


I bet the plane gives them less trouble from now on.
 tongue 
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hmmmm...
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:33 am

Some cultures used to slaughter people for the same purpose. Today, they downgrade that butchery to just slaughtering animals. Well, to all those that think there is nothing wrong with this, considering it's an animal, therefore no empathy is required, in your next life, you will be reincarnated as a goat, cow, pig, what have you. Think about it. The spirit goes somewhere when you die, you don't just float around doing nothing for eternity. They call it karma. And as we know from our own experiences in this life, karma exists.
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 18):
1 - The proper way to sacrifice animals for airplanes is to throw them into the turbine intake or shoot them into the windshield. That is what the FAA/EASA/JAA require.

2 - If this works, I can see a large order for goats from the NWA maintenance dept to sacrifice to their DC9s.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

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RussianJet
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 22):
And as we know from our own experiences in this life, karma exists.

That is extremely debatable and far from being a fact!

Anyway, let's wait and see how the plane does until we judge the situation too harshly.  Smile
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Bicoastal
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:13 am

So many baaaaaaaad comments on this thread. Big grin
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RussianJet
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 25):
So many baaaaaaaad comments on this thread. Big grin

Ha, I do hope you're not including my comments in that assessment sir!  wave 
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lorgem1
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:37 pm

I hate to be the 'goat' in this thread, but thanks for a healthy laugh guys! Its one of the reasons I subscribe to anet.
 
SFO777200LR
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:58 pm

They actually fix two problems:

The 757 and
What the in-flight meal should be.

Can't imagine how many animals would have to be sacrifice if we tried to fix the entire U.S. aviation industry using this method. Don't think there are enough goats in world.
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typhaerion
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting SFO777200LR (Reply 28):
The 757 and
What the in-flight meal should be.

 rotfl 



When I got into work this morning I thought to myself, you know, we have a few L1011s where nothing else is working and we might as well try this....  Big grin
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SEPilot
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:07 pm

One of the first mechanical lessons I learned was that the entire concept of an inanimate object is pure fiction. While the Nepalese are acknowledging that fact I do take issue with their cure. I would prefer prayers; I firmly believe that they would be much more effective (and yes, I have done exactly that with good results on mechanical objects.)
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 22):
Some cultures used to slaughter people for the same purpose. Today, they downgrade that butchery to just slaughtering animals. Well, to all those that think there is nothing wrong with this, considering it's an animal, therefore no empathy is required, in your next life, you will be reincarnated as a goat, cow, pig, what have you. Think about it. The spirit goes somewhere when you die, you don't just float around doing nothing for eternity. They call it karma. And as we know from our own experiences in this life, karma exists.

You don't seriousely believe this?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:28 pm

Better if they get the Airline privatised & away from political Interference.
regds
MEL
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laddb
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting Captainsimon (Reply 3):
Why Oh why can any forward thinking logical intelligent person think that killing a few animals in front of a B757 will cure technical problems that the plane has had.

Well, that's just it. They are not forward thinking logical intelligent people. But sacraficing an animal to appease the gods is no different than praying to a god for help - and lots of people who do think of themselves as "intelligent".
 
2175301
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:02 pm

The sacrifice will almost certainly have a long term affect on how well those planes do in the future.

How can a religious exercise affect an inanimate object you ask...

People maintain and operate those planes. People within their culture will be positively affected by the ceremony and will feel more comfortable working on the plane (if not downright excited) - and it will provide a better outcome for the planes.

Or, would you all rather have people maintaining and flying the plane who are depressed and worried about what will go wrong because of the bad "karma" of the planes...

People are not logical. We were not built that way. Many people can use some degree of logic to accomplish some things - but many other things in our lives are not based on logic. Rather, much of our lives and actions are based on beliefs and habits.

Probably the best thing that could happen in that culture was this religious exercise. The fact that it has no meaning to many people in the US or other cultures is totally besides the point.
 
PA101
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:19 pm

...and lots of people who do think of themselves as "intelligent".

... and increasingly believe that the Earth is just a few thousand years old and was created in six 24-hour-days... Big grin

Well, no disrespect for religious beliefs (even though I despise ritual slaugthers!), but I sure hope, such rituals won't substitute any mechanical work procedures, whether it's in Nepal or elsewhere!
 
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TWA757
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Laddb (Reply 33):
But sacraficing an animal to appease the gods is no different than praying to a god for help

I'd argue that it is very much different to slaughter an innocent being who can't speak for him/herself than to pray for a god for help.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting TWA757 (Reply 36):
I'd argue that it is very much different to slaughter an innocent being who can't speak for him/herself than to pray for a god for help.

For all of you who believe that there is no god I have one question for you. How is a bird going to evolve from anything else without guidance from some intelligent force? Any intermediate stage between a bird and anything else not only will not be survivable, it will be ridiculous. Every element of its body is engineered for flight; that engineering had to come from somewhere.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
PA101
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 37):

Actually, there are birds that cannot fly - e.g. penguins!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:25 am

As long as they eat the animal afterward, I don't think it's a problem.

Well, it's a problem if they don't also FIX THE PLANE. If they rely solely on sacrifices, then that's a maintenance issue...  Wink

Quoting PA101 (Reply 38):
Actually, there are birds that cannot fly - e.g. penguins!

Kiwi, ostrich, emu, chickens, puffins, etc.

But the point about lack of intermediate species and fossil records of intermediate species is still valid. Evolution can't exist purely as a material science exercise, where species jump from one stable state to a higher energy stable state without any in between. If the progression is slow, you need the intermediate evidence, and there is so much of that evidence that is missing, it is enough to question the current theory (remember, it's a theory, concept, idea) of how things evolve. Not that I think the bible is the answer, nor sacrificing goats, just we don't actually have anything close to the answer, but everyone wants to believe that we do because it makes us feel safe...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Plane Problems? Kill An Animal!

Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 37):
Any intermediate stage between a bird and anything else not only will not be survivable, it will be ridiculous.

I find that question interesting, I also wondered how evolution managed to go in that direction with no guarantee of success. To conclude then that some higher being must have been behind it is too much of a stretch for me, I firmly believe in Darwinist evolution theory. So I will say that even having partial wings must have been beneficial. I am no biologist and may be totally wrong about this, but it would make sense if birds developed from fish, so they would have had some flapping devices there already and know how to use them.
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