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1337Delta764
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787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:49 am

My thread about Delta's IFE "upgrades" on the 767-300ERs has caused a hot debate. I would like to start a thread that is less controversial.

As we know, most modern widebody aircraft have PTVs in economy that are factory-installed. There are a few exceptions, such as Delta's 767-400ERs when they were first delivered and United's domestic 777-200As.

I have been wondering whether any airline will order the 787, A350, or A380 without PTVs in economy. Some people are now using their own entertainment systems, but not everyone has that money to spend lots on electronics. Until recently, Lufthansa's newest widebody aircraft were not equipped with PTVs in economy, but this is no longer the case.

So, is there a chance that any airline will order the 787, A350, or A380 without PTVs in economy. I would probably say the two most likely airlines to order them without PTVs are All Nippon and JAL on their 787-3s, but I would still say that the chances of them not featuring PTVs are quite slim. Most U.S. based airlines will probably include PTVs on their 787s/A350s, unless perhaps AA orders the 787-3 to replace the A300. Delta, United, Continental, Northwest, and US Airways will probably include PTVs on their 787s/A350s if/when they are delivered, although United might not include AVOD.

Last time I heard, the 787 will either be offered with Panasonic or Thales IFE. Notably absent is Rockwell Collins. However, this was when Boeing was proposing on using wireless IFE. I don't know whether Rockwell Collins is now an option or not, however, I am sure that some airlines would like to have more than two options. While Panasonic is the leading IFE provider in North America, AA might want to use Rockwell Collins IFE for their 787s like they do on their 777s. US Airways, who uses Sony Transcom IFE on their A330s, might want an option for Rockwell Collins IFE on their A350s, as Sony Transcom was purchased by Rockwell Collins in 2000.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
centrair
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
I would probably say the two most likely airlines to order them without PTVs are All Nippon and JAL on their 787-3s,

You might be right here. It all depends on how they end up using the -3. If they are only using them on domestic runs then they will drop the PTV. But if they rotate them between domestic and regional ops, they will have the IFE but for domestic runs, they could be turned off.

I think that many carriers will have the PTVs. It is possible that those airlines that need those planes but do not have a PTV option now or a way to support it will drop it. Let's say airline XYZ, which doesn't have a huge fleet or route structure needs the 787 range to support national interests. The main airport of the country gets a few other carriers but the traffic is not huge. The airline will cut the PTV for cargo weight and cash. It might be too expensive to get the rights for movies, TV shows or other media. In the end the aircraft is for moving people and cargo and nothing else. I don't know, does Air Maroc have PTV in their current fleet? How about Kenyan or Ethiopian? How about the charter carriers?

Think about this, the 744 had an PTV option. NW tested a system in the 1990s on their 742s (I got one on ORD-NRT in 93) but decided that the wiring, boxes and weight were less beneficial economically. So no PTVs in Y on the 744s. Today the technology is good, light and the boxes can be put under the floor leaving good legroom. NW now has PTVs on the A330s and it is rumored that when the 787s come online, they might refit the 744s with a 787 Y which will include PTVs.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
AEROFAN
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RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:42 am

PTVs are the norm now. I think any future wide body order of any kind will have to have ptvs at every seat
 
joffie
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RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:54 am

Jetstar may not put them in to save costs.
 
avek00
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RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 2):

I would disagree with this assertion. While PTV systems are certainly commonplace for longhaul flights, they are by no means a "norm", and installation of such systems on new and existing aircraft types will continue to depend upon economic feasibility and market preferences.

While most 787 operators should install PTVs, there will almost certainly be some that dont because: 1) they will use the 787 on stage lengths too short to justify PTVs; or 2) the failure to develop a workable wireless IFE system for the 787 will cause the addition of PTVs to pose an unacceptable burden.
Live life to the fullest.
 
aircanada014
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Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:27 am

Air Canada will definately have PTVs on their B787s.
 
kaitak
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RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting Joffie (Reply 3):
Jetstar may not put them in to save costs.

Ah yes, but don't forget that they can also use PTVs as a revenue stream, charging for their use - maybe having very basic programming (like Airshow) free, but everything else chargeable.

I think most carriers will have PTVs on the 787 (and indeed the other types mentioned), apart from the Japanese domestic carriers; the aircraft they are receiving next year will be -8s, so they should have PTVs.
 
GBan
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RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
Ah yes, but don't forget that they can also use PTVs as a revenue stream, charging for their use - maybe having very basic programming (like Airshow) free, but everything else chargeable.

Do you think I'll still be allowed to bring my own book in that bright new future?
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 7):
Do you think I'll still be allowed to bring my own book in that bright new future?

Of course not, they will eventually ban food, drink and books. You will have to buy everything on board. You might even have to re-order the book you are currently reading for use on the plane. You can only use it on the plane and then must return it to the carrier. The first 20 pages are $10.00 any additional page is $.10.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
miami1
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 10:31 pm

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting Joffie (Reply 3):
Jetstar may not put them in to save costs.

Actually Jetstar has emphasised that PTVs will be available on it's 787s. Look at any of the media releases.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3219
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Some people are now using their own entertainment systems, but not everyone has that money to spend lots on electronics.

Let them take an LCC.
come visit the south pacific
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 4):
2) the failure to develop a workable wireless IFE system for the 787 will cause the addition of PTVs to pose an unacceptable burden.

They had a workable wireless system, it was just heavy. Specifically, heavier than the wired system. Running the IFE down the seat tracks has taken a lot of the sting out of a wired system.

Tom.
 
Boeingluvr
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:56 am

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:58 am

It's one of the reasons I choose BA above AC. PTV's on top of the better service and and quality of your flight is much better with BA. But for myself, PTV's on a long haul are quite important!
 
LXA340
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: 787/A350/A380 Without PTVs In Economy?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:12 am

Besides maybe low cost airlines and planes that will used for short haul routes all future orders for long haul planes will have PTV's for all classes. More or less this is already the case now with almost every new long haul plane being delivered with an IFE system for all classes.

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