N14AZ
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Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:01 am

Inspired by the thread about DLs A310 (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3601963/) I was wondering which airlines operated A310 and B767 at the same time?

Two examples are SU and AH


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Furthermore, there were some airlines which operated both jets but not at the same time, for example DL (for reasons we all know (PA-merger)), MP and

LH


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DF


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AF


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KL


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Are there any other airlines that operated both types at the same time and what were the reasons for that?
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:11 am

Canadian would be another after the Wardair takeover:


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Kuwait Airways who actually ordered the A310, then bought the 767 selling 2 A310s fresh off the production line to Boeing then buying the A310 again:


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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
EI321
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:12 am

Uzbekistan still do.
 
AF2323
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
Furthermore, there were some airlines which operated both jets but not at the same time

Air France did operate both the A310 and 767 at the same time.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:27 am


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columba
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:30 am

Why did Condor drop the A310 in favor for the 757/767 combo ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
CV990
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:36 am

Hi!

I'm amazed that all of you forgot to mention DELTA....they used at the same time both airliners too...going even further they operated at one time the A310-200/300 and the 767-200/300...


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Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
OHLHD
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:39 am

OS could be too with the merger with NG be one of these operators but I am not 100% sure.  Smile
 
N14AZ
Topic Author
Posts: 1962
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 6):
Hi!

I'm amazed that all of you forgot to mention DELTA....they used at the same time both airliners too...going even further they operated at one time the A310-200/300 and the 767-200/300...

Of course I did not forget !!!!

Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
Inspired by the thread about DLs A310 (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3601963/) I was wondering which airlines operated A310 and B767 at the same time?



Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
for example DL (for reasons we all know (PA-merger)), MP and

But I am ashamed that I forgot KU... Actually they were the first airline I spotted using both types.
 
columba
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7):
OS could be too with the merger with NG be one of these operators but I am not 100% sure. Smile

I think by then the A310 was already replaced by A330 and A340 but it falls into the category "operated both but not at the same time"

Quoting CV990 (Reply 6):
Hi!

I'm amazed that all of you forgot to mention DELTA....they used at the same time both airliners too...going even further they operated at one time the A310-200/300 and the 767-200/300...



Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
Inspired by the thread about DLs A310 (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3601963/) I was wondering which airlines operated A310 and B767 at the same time?

 Wink
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
OHLHD
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 9):
I think by then the A310 was already replaced by A330 and A340 but it falls into the category "operated both but not at the same time"

They received an A310 back 2 years ago or so but I think they did not operate it just flew it to have it sold or so.  Smile

Thanks.
 
columba
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 10):
hey received an A310 back 2 years ago or so but I think they did not operate it just flew it to have it sold or so. Smile

I believe it was one of theirs that they have leased to another airline (HF ?) and it stood in Vienna till they could sell it.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
CV990
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:23 am

Hi!

You're right N14AZ...I'm sorry!!! I didn't see any DL A310/767 photos...that's why I missed it...but you're right..you've mentioned indeed DL!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
OHLHD
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 11):
I believe it was one of theirs that they have leased to another airline (HF ?) and it stood in Vienna till they could sell it.

Yes that's right. Here is a pic:


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Just confirmed with a friend ( OS MX) that they just kept it in good shape for selling it.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:30 am

A reason could be : they already owned A300s, which shares a lot with the A310, they logically bought the A310 but as it could not offer extremely long ranges, they also needed the 767 and got it too. Why not the 767 only then? Well, think of AA : they have the A300 because it allows much better cargo capacity than the 767. As well, the A310 seemed better suited for short/medium flights than the 767 (remember how common they were then on widebodies), but i may be wrong on that.

Since the A300 and A310 are one single family, one could add AA to the list (I think they are the world's largest operator of pax A300 and one of the largest for pax 767s), and how differently they use both is a perfect example of how different these two families are.


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FlySSC
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:45 am

LAB Lloyd Aero Boliviano operates both A310 & B767 :


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northstardc4m
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 15):
LAB Lloyd Aero Boliviano operates both A310 & B767 :

Operated you mean... they operate neither currently.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:07 am

Air Niugini used to operate in 2002 - 2003, both Airbus A310 and Boeing 767...


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Air Afrique, operated in 1999 and 2000 it's own Airbus A310 and Boeing 767 wet-leased from Air Europe Italy...


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Canadian Airlines in 1990...


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(...)

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Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
globeex
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
Furthermore, there were some airlines which operated both jets but not at the same time, for example DL (for reasons we all know (PA-merger)), MP and

LH

Apologies if I'm wrong, but LH operated both at the same time, eventhough in 1994 the A310 were operated by Lufthansa Express (weren't they?).

GlobeEx
As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
DL (for reasons we all know (PA-merger))

Air France also operated both types for the same reason :
AF was an A310 operator but never ordered the B767.
The B767 were inherited from UTA (AF-UT merger in 1992). UTA at that time had irdered the B767 to replace its DC10 and for its charter division Aéromaritime :


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N14AZ
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 18):
Apologies if I'm wrong, but LH operated both at the same time, eventhough in 1994 the A310 were operated by Lufthansa Express (weren't they?).

GlobeEx

LH had 767 at two different times in their fleet

1994 -- 1995 (D-ABUC)


At the same time they operated A310 (with and without Express titles)

2003 (two leased from Lauda Air, D-ABUV, D-ABUW)


At the same time they still operated A310. As far as I know the last official LH A310 flight was in 2004.

So, as a summary we have:

1.) Aeroflot
2.) Air Afrique
3.) Air Algerie
4.) Air France
5.) Air India
6.) Air Nuigini
7.) Canadian
8.) Delta
9.) LAB (not 100% sure if it was at the same time or one directly after the other)
10.) Lufthansa
11.) Uzbekistan

Another candidate would have been Kenya Airways but the A310s left the fleet when the B767 arrived (one unfortunately by a crash)
 
76er
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:00 pm

Martinair operated the A310 and 767 side by side from 1989 till 1995.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 20):
So, as a summary we have:

1.) Aeroflot
2.) Air Afrique
3.) Air Algerie
4.) Air France
5.) Air India
6.) Air Nuigini
7.) Canadian
8.) Delta
9.) LAB (not 100% sure if it was at the same time or one directly after the other)
10.) Lufthansa
11.) Uzbekistan

You missed KLM.
 
N14AZ
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:46 pm

Quoting 76er (Reply 21):
Martinair operated the A310 and 767 side by side from 1989 till 1995.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):

Ooops, I forgot all Dutch operators in the final list... But believe me, this is not due to the German-Dutch rivalry  Wink
But wait a moment, are you sure about KLM ("at the same time")? The lastest pictures of KLM A310 you find in the Database are from 1995 while the 767-pictures start at 1998 (I tortured google but didn't find the exact dates)

So, here is the updated list:

1.) Aeroflot
2.) Air Afrique
3.) Air Algerie
4.) Air France
5.) Air India
6.) Air Nuigini
7.) Canadian
8.) Delta
9.) LAB (not 100% sure if it was at the same time or one directly after the other)
10.) Lufthansa
11.) Martinair
12.) Uzbekistan
 
cricket
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:22 pm

To be fair to AI the 767's are short-term leases (to cover for the inop A310's) and not aircraft on AI's books, but technically yes the A310 and the 767 have both worn AI colours - not not the proper ones in case of the FlyGlobespan 767's.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 23):
1.) Aeroflot
2.) Air Afrique
3.) Air Algerie
4.) Air France
5.) Air India
6.) Air Nuigini
7.) Canadian
8.) Delta
9.) LAB (not 100% sure if it was at the same time or one directly after the other)
10.) Lufthansa
11.) Martinair
12.) Uzbekistan

you missed Kuwait Airways... and they DID operate them at the same time, probably the 1st airline to do so in fact.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:16 am

Kenya Airways!

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Viscount724
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 23):
But wait a moment, are you sure about KLM ("at the same time")? The lastest pictures of KLM A310 you find in the Database are from 1995 while the 767-pictures start at 1998

Here's an A310 photo dated September 30, 1995, assuming the date on the photo is correct. I couldn't find a reference to when KL retired their last A310. Perhaps someone else will know.


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And a 767 photo dated September 4, 1995 (their first, delivered July 28, 1995):


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There are many KL 767 photos in the database before 1998 but that seems to the only one dated 1995. They had 3 in service by the end of 1995. Following is the history of the first one in the photo above:
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/767/27957.html
 
N14AZ
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:34 pm

You are right about KLM. Finally I found some information:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/KLM-history-a310.htm

The KLM A310 was active until 1997 even.

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/KLM-history-b767.htm

According to this source the B767 operations started in 1995, as Viscount724 stated.

Similar situation for LAB: A310 returned to ILFC in 2004, B767 pictures start from 2003.

And KQ has been proved by Clydenairways. I had KU simply forgotten, thank you NorthstarDC4M!

1.) Aeroflot
2.) Air Afrique
3.) Air Algerie
4.) Air France
5.) Air India
6.) Air Nuigini
7.) Canadian
8.) Delta
9.) Kenya Airways
10.) KLM
11.) Kuwait Airways
12.) LAB
13.) Lufthansa
14.) Martinair
15.) Uzbekistan

The reasons for operating both types at the same time can be classified as follows:

1.) overlapping of one type (A310) leaving while the other joins (B767) the fleet, e.g. KL, KQ
2.) short term leasing due to a shortage of aircrafts, e.g. LH, AI
3.) merger, e.g. Delta, Canadian
4.) Ohers, e.g. Uzbekistan, KU, MP

Let us come back on this issue in 20 years and check how many airlines operated or operate A350 and B787 side by side in their fleet...
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:12 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 14):
Since the A300 and A310 are one single family

No, they are NOT the same family. The A300 prior to the A310 shares very little with the A310. It would be very much like saying the 767, and 777 are the same family since they use the same section 41.

You might have some point since the A300-600 is basicly a hybrid of the A300 and A310 using the better A300 wing, with a A310 based fuselage and the other improvements Airbus found in going from the A300 -> A310.
 
JRDC930
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 16):
Operated you mean... they operate neither currently.

I dont think they operate anything anymore... last i heard. Kinda sad this ailine has gone(basically) to nothing.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
oly720man
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RE: Airlines Operating A310 And 767 At The Same Time?

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:26 pm

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