SpencerII
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Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:55 pm

There was an article in the Salt Lake Tribune yesterday stating that Sach -Goldman had indicated DL was interested
in B6. The complete article is here.

http://www.sltrib.com//ci_6838745?IA...arch-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com
 
dutchjet
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:07 pm

Speculation concerning a possible Delta/JetBlue combination has been discussed before: could it make sense?
 
commavia
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:16 pm

Will this insanity never end?

I sincerely hope that Delta's management team -- which as shown amazing forethought and innovation in the last few years -- doesn't seriously entertain this idiocy. Delta merging with JetBlue makes about as much sense as Dougie over at USAirways taking over Delta. Their corporate cultures and fleets are so incredibly different that it would completely mitigate any financial benefit from the transaction. I'd like to see Delta explain to their pilots how they plan to integrate an incredibly-junior, incredibly low-paid (by industry standards), non-union pilot group into the seniority list. I'd also like to see what they would plan to do with the clusterf*ck that JFK is becoming for both airlines: JetBlue is doing something about it, and has a beautiful new terminal opening next year. Delta is still stuck in 1971 over at T2/T3, on the complete opposite end of the airport from JetBlue's new T5/T6 -- and neither T2/T3 or T5/T6 can handle both airline's JFK operations.

There are definitely mergers and/or some asset swaps/financial transactions among U.S. carriers that make sense in this day and age, but Delta-JetBlue is definitely not one of them in my opinion.
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
I sincerely hope that Delta's management team -- which as shown amazing forethought and innovation in the last few years -- doesn't seriously entertain this idiocy. Delta merging with JetBlue makes about as much sense as Dougie over at USAirways taking over Delta. Their corporate cultures and fleets are so incredibly different that it would completely mitigate any financial benefit from the transaction. I'd like to see Delta explain to their pilots how they plan to integrate an incredibly-junior, incredibly low-paid (by industry standards), non-union pilot group into the seniority list. I'd also like to see what they would plan to do with the clusterf*ck that JFK is becoming for both airlines: JetBlue is doing something about it, and has a beautiful new terminal opening next year. Delta is still stuck in 1971 over at T2/T3, on the complete opposite end of the airport from JetBlue's new T5/T6 -- and neither T2/T3 or T5/T6 can handle both airline's JFK operations.

I would have to disagree with you totally. Here it goes....JetBlue is worth in the range of 2.3 Billion dollars.
1- A New terminal in JFK will cost around? Delta is in trouble with their terminal in JFK because they do not have to build a new terminal at JFK and they cannot cease any operations as JFK is a money maker for them.

2-Delta purchases JetBlue and automatically takes out their number one direct competitior on the Domestic market.

3-The Planes Delta has quite a large fleet of domestic airplanes that will have to be replaced in the near future. If Delta would purchase JetBlue they can use the existing 100 or so A320s for the time being and place an order for 200 or so 737, Boeing would love this project as it would be taking away one of AIRBUS top top customers. As Boeing currently still owns I believe around 3% of Delta this would be totally to their interest.

Basically, If Delta would actually purchase JetBlue, They will automatically be making money on the project, Instead of Investing in it.

Are JetBlues planes all bought? If so they should be worth around $10'000'000 each at least
 
Delta4eva
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:53 pm

I think that this would be an excellent combination. It would allow DL to obtain the operations in JFK that they would like. It would also go over well with Delta's pilot union because most of the pilots at B6 would be junior to DL pilots. In addition, it would be an easier merger than say DL/NW or DL/UA.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
iaddca
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
Will this insanity never end?

They'd be taking them over to kill them, it'd be a hostile offer.

B6 has crushed DL in NY, and DL has tried everything - creating Song, using higher capacity 757s on B6 routes, reconsidering IFE strategy, and nothing has worked. But now that post chapter 11 DL has a stock with a tiny bit of value, they think they can kill B6 with that.

Even if they go public with this, it won't close.
 
panamair
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 5):

B6 has crushed DL in NY, and DL has tried everything - creating Song, using higher capacity 757s on B6 routes, reconsidering IFE strategy, and nothing has worked

Proof please.....and you have the numbers that show that DL's JFK in the last year is being 'crushed' by B6??
 
commavia
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 5):
They'd be taking them over to kill them, it'd be a hostile offer.

B6 has crushed DL in NY, and DL has tried everything - creating Song, using higher capacity 757s on B6 routes, reconsidering IFE strategy, and nothing has worked. But now that post chapter 11 DL has a stock with a tiny bit of value, they think they can kill B6 with that.

Exactly. Delta has tried everything to be competitive with JetBlue out of JFK/New York and Florida, and it hasn't worked. JetBlue's product is really, really good, and it doesn't matter how many lime green 757s you add a few seats to, it's not going to change that.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 5):
Even if they go public with this, it won't close.

I concur completely. I can't wait to see what Mr. Never-Met-A-Camera-He-Didn't Like Chucky Schumer has to say about this. I'm sure he'll be thrilled to watch his baby get gobbled up by Delta.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:35 pm

Taking out JetBlue would certainly help things at JFK. I know they're one of the top carriers in terms of movements at the airport, and in terms of passengers carried. I'm guessing they could cut at least 1/3 of B6's flights out of JFK, helping delays. And those A320s would sure look nice with F class replacing those MD-88s....lol.

But seriously, this could happen. The new DL has a much better reputation in the banking industry than the pre-bankruptcy DL. They could certainly get the funding for this. Unfortunately the people running the banks aren't big JetBlue fans.... They're not the ones flying B6.

Read that article again. Sounds like another bad storm is brewing at JFK...

[Edited 2007-09-11 15:44:12]
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
incitatus
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:02 pm

And what would the new company be called? JetBlue?
Stop pop up ads
 
alphascan
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
I'd like to see Delta explain to their pilots how they plan to integrate an incredibly-junior, incredibly low-paid (by industry standards), non-union pilot group into the seniority list.

Exactly why this deal will never happen.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
exusair
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 10):

How would DL pilots integrate the B6 pilot ranks onto the seniority list? Very easily, in fact you probably have the tool necessary to integrate the seniority list right on your desk, it's called a stapler..............Put 'em all right on the bottom of the list.

Attributes of this merger:
1) New terminal in JFK. Also creates an instant hub for DL, effectively giving them control of JFK. Catapults DL to #1 in the NY market when combined with Shuttle/LGA ops/JFK Int'l and domestic portfolio.
2) Eliminate a Florida competitor and putting DL #1 in most Florida cities with the exception of MIA.
3) A-320's and E190's become the replacement vehicles for DL MD-88's. Eventually replace A-320's and 757's with Boeing RS product.
4) Move B6 LGB capacity to LAX. Instant hub in LAX for trans-pac and select Europe and South American markets.
5) Non union workforce at B6 makes it an attractive candidate, much more attractive than another partner with entrenched unions.
6) DL board just issued a statement affirming the commitment of management and the DL board to fairness in seniority protection in the event of a buyout or merger. This was just released yesterday to the rank and file at DL. Curious timing....
7) E-190 product in DL family. DL has been seeking a 100 seat jet option. Payrates already in place on the DALPA contract. Very cheap payrates.
8) Solidifies BOS presence. Eliminates a competitor on the BOS/NYC/DC shuttle sectors.
9) Decent route portfolio from JFK to the Caribbean when combined with DL ops.
10) Enables DL maintenence to market overhauls for A320 and E170/190 families.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:04 am

This might not even pass DOJ scrutiny anyway given the monopoly it would create at JFK and along much of the east coast. I don't think we have to worry about this ever happening, regardless of which side you are on.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:16 am

I'd hate to see B6 gobbled up by DL. It's well known on this board that I'm an FL cheerleader -- and obviously getting rid of B6 would help FL -- but I'd hate to see B6 disappear. They have a very unique product -- I personally love the legroom on the A320s -- and a great corporate personality. It's unfortunate that other airlines including FL don't follow many of B6's innovations and best practices. I'd much rather see one or more of the legacies fold that see any of the four main LCCs (WN, FL, B6, F9) gobbled up. Now, NK....good riddance to them. And before I get jumped on for expressing this opinion, I never wanted YX to disappear; I just doubted their ability to sustain themselves as a stand-alone company.
 
flybyguy
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
Exactly. Delta has tried everything to be competitive with JetBlue out of JFK/New York and Florida, and it hasn't worked. JetBlue's product is really, really good, and it doesn't matter how many lime green 757s you add a few seats to, it's not going to change that.

That is the problem... jetblue has it's quirks, but at the end of the day delta cannot compete with the jetblue product. Jetblue seems sincere to make its customers happy which is shocking in an industry which routinely strands, spits on, and scolds passengers while asking them to fly again.

Once jetblue leaves the scene we no longer have a "new york airline", or any companies in the country that try to bring excellent service at good value. The plus about jetblue leaving is that the significant drop in operations would alleviate delays at JFK... plus our "southern belle" gets a brand spanking new terminal at JFK complete with customs.

Perhaps Berger was put in to make the airline "sell-able"? If that is so, what a shame! The only "real" airline America has ever had goes under after 7 short years... only to be gobbled up by one of the 5 leading contenders for airline mediocrity.

[Edited 2007-09-11 17:59:18]
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
ScottB
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
This might not even pass DOJ scrutiny anyway given the monopoly it would create at JFK

What monopoly? AA would still be a very solid second at JFK, and in the NYC market as a whole, CO would be a close second to a hypothetical combined DL/B6. They'd have just over a quarter of the NYC market (CO has just slightly under 25% of the market).

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 5):
They'd be taking them over to kill them, it'd be a hostile offer.

It might be a hostile offer, but JetBlue faces some serious issues. The stock has been a dog for the last 3.5 years, and for most of this year it's been trading below the split-adjusted closing price on the date they did their IPO. The market doesn't appear to be "penalizing" them for their operational difficulties, either; the forward P-E ratio on the stock is about 20.

Another issue JetBlue faces is figuring out where they can grow the business. They've had far more difficulty gaining a foothold in the thinner markets from JFK (and BOS) than they did in the very heavily traveled Florida and transcon markets. Geography and the recent airfield congestion make JFK a poor connecting hub. LGB is maxed out as far as slots go, and FLL is essentially full. The new terminal will help to improve the passenger experience at JFK, but again congestion will make it difficult to grow.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
I'd like to see Delta explain to their pilots how they plan to integrate an incredibly-junior, incredibly low-paid (by industry standards), non-union pilot group into the seniority list.

Actually, I doubt that Delta's pilot group would mind at all, given that they'd probably still maintain most of their seniority. Moreover, I'd imagine that they (and national ALPA) would love to have the JetBlue pilots under the Delta contract, since that would eliminate management's ability to argue "well, that's how much JetBlue pays their pilots."

I don't personally think that a Delta-JetBlue merger is going to happen, but I certainly can see the logic behind it.
 
masseybrown
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking A

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:38 am

Civic and employee pride aside, this merger does make some sense.

For it to have a chance, however, it would require JBLU to admit to themselves 1) that they have hit the wall on profitable expansion, 2) that their stock will stay dead in the water, and 3) that they would have great difficulty getting through any future economic slowdown. If JBLU doesn't believe this, it won't happen.

It would have to be a stock-swap merger; I don't think DL could finance a buyout. (OK, some a.netters will dispute this.) But stock swap would give the JBLU shareholders a chance at recovering their post-January '07 paper losses and avoid taxes on any gain they do have. So JBLU probably wouldn't mind a stock swap.

DL should be pleased with it for the reasons well-stated above by others.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:58 am

This merger makes more sense than the US and DL one. DL will get more gates, routes, and more money in the process instead of loosing money. I believe the DOT would approve it if a good plan was shown that would benefit both parties.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking A

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 3):
2-Delta purchases JetBlue and automatically takes out their number one direct competitior on the Domestic market.

Certainly not their biggest competitor. In NYC, BOS, FLL and MCO yes.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 5):
They'd be taking them over to kill them, it'd be a hostile offer.

Kill is a strong word. They certainly want something that they have, namely a new terminal.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 5):
B6 has crushed DL in NY

Delta is still bigger than JetBlue in New York.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 5):
creating Song, using higher capacity 757s on B6 routes, reconsidering IFE strategy

Song was a blessing in disguise. Delta now has the best Y product of ANY legacy carrier on domestic routes.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
This might not even pass DOJ scrutiny anyway given the monopoly it would create at JFK and along much of the east coast. I don't think we have to worry about this ever happening, regardless of which side you are on.

Exactly. The merged carrier would have nearly a third of the New York market, and be the biggest carrier at LaGuardia and Kennedy. Not to mention that Skyteam would have 60-75% of the New York market to itself.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
What monopoly? AA would still be a very solid second at JFK, and in the NYC market as a whole, CO would be a close second to a hypothetical combined DL/B6

A merged carrier would be much bigger than Continental.

The merger has its merits. Delta hands over its low yielding Florida routes to JetBlue, Delta take the Transcon and Caribbean routes.

In the end you've got to ask yourself if Delta is willing to add that much complexity to its operation, especially with the economy softening and the eventual drop in business travel that comes with it on the horizon.
 
pilotboi
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 13):
and obviously getting rid of B6 would help FL

Yeah, but DL and FL are hub rivals, so this would kind of be neutral for them.

Here are my thoughts, if it actually did happen:
It would give DL a big advantage in JFK.
It might allow DL to expand/improve their pax on-board experience, if they take up some of JetBlue managers.
It would probably be not that good for DL pilots.

Other thoughts:
JetBlue have not been in the news as much recently, like they were a few years ago. I don't know the extent of how well the company has been doing, but it just seems as though they have been forgotten about.

There's my 2 or 3 cents.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:33 am

Keep jetBlue my jetBlue!!!!

Buttons. We need buttons. Badges, too. Websites. The lot. Take ads out in the NY Times.  Wink Big grin
You can't cure stupid
 
pilotboi
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):
Keep jetBlue my jetBlue!!!!

Buttons. We need buttons. Badges, too. Websites. The lot. Take ads out in the NY Times.

 Silly hey it worked, didn't it?
 
SESGDL
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking A

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 18):
Delta is still bigger than JetBlue in New York.

No they're not. B6 is now #2 in the New York market, followed by AA and DL. DL is now in #4, a position that despite their heavy growth they have not been able to conquer. DL's terminal situation is awful, and though they could pass AA at JFK next year with more growth, AA's looking to step up their game as well, putting DL in an even more compromising position.

I love B6, but I love DL more, and think the merger would make sense from a strategic point (not much different than AA's takeover of AirCal, or to a lesser extent Reno Air). It would allow DL to become #1 in NYC and have a fleet of new airplanes with many of the advancements that are already being added to DL's fleet. It would also put DL neck-and-neck with AA as the world's largest airline.

Will be interesting if the rumors are indeed true (DL's bringing in Richard Anderson certainly has something to do with this (wink wink!).

Jeremy
 
okie73
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
I'd like to see Delta explain to their pilots how they plan to integrate an incredibly-junior, incredibly low-paid (by industry standards), non-union pilot group into the seniority list.

actually, it would not be up to Delta to decide how to integrate the JetBlue pilots. The Delta pilots contract gives DALPA the right to determine the integration method in any merger with a non ALPA carrier. Second, I think if you do some research you will find the JetBlue pilots are actually paid pretty well, not far off Delta pay for same sized aircraft.

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 19):
It would probably be not that good for DL pilots.

Think so huh? If I were a Delta pilot, this merger would not worry me at all. If I were a JetBlue pilot...a non union JetBlue pilot, I would be really worried.
 
rampart
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 8):
Taking out JetBlue would certainly help things at JFK. I know they're one of the top carriers in terms of movements at the airport, and in terms of passengers carried. I'm guessing they could cut at least 1/3 of B6's flights out of JFK, helping delays.

Not to shoot you as a messenger, nor would I attribute this statement directly to you, but this is exactly the sort of fair-weather support a New Yorker might espouse. ("Boo birds" is an apt description for the Giants and now JetBlue fans!) At the time JetBlue came to being, JFK was UNDERused, and was seen as a good alternative for growth while EWR and LGA were near maxed, with limited opportunity to establish competition. I don't have the documents to support, but I recall PANYNJ being quite happy for a new entrant with intents to start a hub at JFK , and other New York leaders were equally excited. So, is the sentiment now that JFK needs help, and taking out the very airline that created its recent renaissance is the answer? Pretty cynical.

I admire and support B4's innovation over the years. Delta doesn't deserve them. Just my opinion.

-Rampart
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:15 am

Such a takeover might make sense to both airlines, but I really would hate to see B6 go away. From an investor's perspective it would probably be great, but in the end, I do not think that the flying public in NY would benefit at all. If anything, New Yorkers would face negative effects from a DL purchase of B6.

Quoting Exusair (Reply 11):
4) Move B6 LGB capacity to LAX. Instant hub in LAX for trans-pac and select Europe and South American markets.

Why would DL ever do that? LGB is a moneypit for B6. Keeping the routes out of LGB would further endhance DL's LA-basin presence.

JetBluefan1
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 9):
And what would the new company be called? JetBlue?

hahahaha.....i hope your joking but for the people that think that they would save the B6 name it won't ever happen!

Quoting Exusair (Reply 11):
A-320's and E190's become the replacement vehicles for DL MD-88's. Eventually replace A-320's and 757's with Boeing RS product.

read post# 3 DL would order new 738s and sell the A320s of so fast it would make your head spin....the 88s are here to stay for a while(most are paid for and the lease aren't up on most till 2015)

As for the terminals i think this would give DL a good chance to re build T2 and T3
1) move T2 opps to T5
2) rebuild T2 and add customs
3) move WorldPort(T3) opps to the new T2 then rebuild T3
4) then rebuild T6
4) then they have 4 nice new terminals and own JFK
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
sxf24
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 25):
Why would DL ever do that? LGB is a moneypit for B6. Keeping the routes out of LGB would further endhance DL's LA-basin presence.

I agree. A dominant position at a slot-constrained airport in the second large O&D market in the country is incredibly valuable, especially when there's limited terminal space for expansion at LAX.
 
611ATL
Posts: 40
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:33 am

At a breakfast with Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian (I'm not that special...apparently the leadership team is making the rounds trying to have face time with as many employees as possible) the question was asked. Richard Anderson shook his head and said something to the effect of, "We have to pay down enough debt as it is already, why would we want more? That's all we'd get out of B6 is debt." My coworker asked again, citing the terminal at JFK and he said, "It's not going to happen. That'd be a mighty expensive terminal...we can upgrade ours for a lot less than taking over another carrier."

While I know he wouldn't disclose any secret merger/takeover plans with random frontline employees, Mr. Anderson seemed adamant about Delta remaining independent for the foreseeable future.
 
ScottB
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 25):
Quoting Exusair (Reply 11):
4) Move B6 LGB capacity to LAX. Instant hub in LAX for trans-pac and select Europe and South American markets.

Why would DL ever do that? LGB is a moneypit for B6. Keeping the routes out of LGB would further endhance DL's LA-basin presence.

Because Delta wants to have more feed at LAX in order to build up a hub operation there. Having JetBlue's LGB feed at LAX would make trans-Pacific service more viable.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 18):
A merged carrier would be much bigger than Continental.

If we're talking about the NYC market, it would be bigger, but not much bigger. CO plus CO Express had 24.4% passenger market share in NYC (EWR/LGA/JFK) in the 12 months ending June 2007. For the same period, B6 + DL + OH + DL Shuttle combined had 26.8% of the market. In the event of a merger, you'd probably see a combined carrier pull some capacity out of the market, too.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 18):
In the end you've got to ask yourself if Delta is willing to add that much complexity to its operation, especially with the economy softening and the eventual drop in business travel that comes with it on the horizon.

Well, the added complexity would be counterbalanced by the ability to reduce capacity in markets that would see softening demand. Delta has a huge capacity gap in their system between 76-seat CR9's and 142-seat MD-88's; the E190 might help there. Single-class E190's would also be a good fit for the Delta Shuttle on off-peak frequencies.
 
nycfly75
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking A

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 26):
As for the terminals i think this would give DL a good chance to re build T2 and T3
1) move T2 opps to T5
2) rebuild T2 and add customs
3) move WorldPort(T3) opps to the new T2 then rebuild T3
4) then rebuild T6
4) then they have 4 nice new terminals and own JFK

Why would they do all that?

All I would do is knock T6 down, expand T5 too add more gates for widebodies and add Customs. They have 2/3 of what they need in the new T5 they just need to finish it off with an expansion for Int'l capability. Just think Medallion and Business Elite Check-in at the old TWA complex! I would also knock down T2 and expand Terminal 1.

[Edited 2007-09-11 22:18:31]
 
sllevin
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RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Exusair (Reply 11):
1) New terminal in JFK. Also creates an instant hub for DL, effectively giving them control of JFK. Catapults DL to #1 in the NY market when combined with Shuttle/LGA ops/JFK Int'l and domestic portfolio.

And Delta wants to make JFK big. So it does make sense.

And jetBlue has been suffering the stock doldrums. This deal would be pitched as a path to grow for everyone.

Steve
 
pa201
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
This might not even pass DOJ scrutiny anyway given the monopoly it would create at JFK and along much of the east coast. I don't think we have to worry about this ever happening, regardless of which side you are on.

DOJ would scrutinzy would focus on the competetive offerings of the consumer market of "NYC" (LGA, EWR, JFK, ISP). Domination of an airport (vs a market) would not weigh as heavily when there are so many alternative aiports and offerings to choose from. Plus, AA would still provide a very strong competative force to DL. Doubt DOJ would be a major factor.
 
pa201
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
This might not even pass DOJ scrutiny anyway given the monopoly it would create at JFK and along much of the east coast. I don't think we have to worry about this ever happening, regardless of which side you are on.

DOJ scrutiny would focus on the competetive offerings of the consumer *market* of "NYC" (LGA, EWR, JFK, ISP). Domination of an airport (vs a market) would not weigh as heavily when there are so many alternative aiports and offerings to choose from for a consumer in the NYC cachement. Plus, AA would still provide a very strong competative force to DL. Doubt DOJ would be a major factor.
 
alphascan
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting Exusair (Reply 11):
How would DL pilots integrate the B6 pilot ranks onto the seniority list? Very easily, in fact you probably have the tool necessary to integrate the seniority list right on your desk, it's called a stapler..............Put 'em all right on the bottom of the list.

And give'em huge raises along with all other employee groups at B6 which would skew the economics of the whole operation. A legacy and a LCC merging could only happen if the LCC bought the legacy while it is in bankruptcy according to the only guy who has been successful at a merger in the last several years...Doug Parker. Otherwise, wage issues would (will) be a sword through the heart of any deal.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
petera380
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:04 am

A320's in Delta colour scheme!  Wink
 
GeorgeJetson
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:36 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:44 am

Here is an (ex-jetBlue) Delta Airbus A320-232:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00007378

Please note how the Airbus customer number for Delta matches Boeing’s corresponding customer number! Maybe this merger is meant to be!!!
Meet George Jetson
 
Zone1
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:47 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 16):
It would have to be a stock-swap merger; I don't think DL could finance a buyout.

Diluting current stock holders even more. I have a feeling this would be a tough sell to current shareholders, banks, and Boeing, all of which don't really have any incentive to see their shares worth less.
/// U N I T E D
 
AA767LOVER
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:59 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:34 am

I would frown on it. B6 is definitely a LOT more effective in JFK than DL could be in the domestic market. DL has not been efficient AT ALL. I remember my experiences flying with B6 from BUF-JFK, and Comair from JFK-BUF.

If we talk about the international market, it is like comparing apples and oranges. Can't do that. On the domestic market, sure, as it provides great competition, and as a result, lowered fares from both airlines.

Terminal 3 at JFK is simply a zoo, a very ineffective operations. I know. I flew through it to BUF. A short flight to BUF is much shorter than the actual wait!!! I fly B6 from BUF to JFK, and also from JFK-LAS, and I find it a breeze going through Terminal 6 at JFK. Flights seldomly depart late with B6. It is comfortable. It is classy. It is a short hop, but it is a great experience!!

I hope that DL will not buy out B6. I won't fly DL again if that were the case.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
apodino
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 36):
Here is an (ex-jetBlue) Delta Airbus A320-232:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00007378

Please note how the Airbus customer number for Delta matches Boeing?s corresponding customer number! Maybe this merger is meant to be!!!

One problem with that is that Delta got rid of the Wavy Gravy scheme in exchange for the red widget scheme. So the paint scheme you display will never happen, even if a merger does.


Here is the question I have. Terminal C in BOS was not in that bad a shape before Delta built the new one (At least not bad when compared to JFK 2 and 3) and their presence in JFK is bigger than BOS. My question is, why did the spend the money on a new terminal in BOS, and not JFK, where they clearly needed it more.
 
pilotboi
Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:16 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 36):
Here is an (ex-jetBlue) Delta Airbus A320-232:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00007378

Please note how the Airbus customer number for Delta matches Boeing’s corresponding customer number! Maybe this merger is meant to be!!!

Ewwwww. Wow, I didn't even think about that before. Forgot jetBlue was on the dark side.  Silly
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 39):
My question is, why did the spend the money on a new terminal in BOS, and not JFK, where they clearly needed it more.

Two words: Leo Mullin
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
SpencerII
Topic Author
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 38):
I remember my experiences flying with B6 from BUF-JFK, and Comair from JFK-BUF.

Two flights you took creates a legitimate comparison?
 
DL787932ER
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:27 pm

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:08 am

I've heard this idea proposed in the past and the more I think about it the more I like it.

Fleet: B6's planes already have many of the Y class amenities DL is deploying on its fleet. There are enough A320s and E190s (which DL has been interested in for mainline routes that need less than M88 capacity) that they could operate next to the M88s and 73Gs until the next-gen 737 replacement. All you need is to add F cabins. M88s could be retired in favor of the newer, better-equipped A320s.

Labor: B6 is non-union, as is DL except for the pilots and dispatchers. B6 has only been around since 2000, and how many mainline pilots has DL hired since then? Stapling them to the bottom of the list might not be unfair as there probably are few if any DL pilots with start dates after 2000 anyway. E190 pay rates would be as per DL's latest DALPA contract and A320 rates would probably be the same as the 738.

Hubs: A merger would give DL instant mainline domestic hubs at JFK and BOS, which could replace and supplement the current regional operations and add a lot of international feed at JFK. Capacity could be right-sized across the east coast. Drawing down capacity through retiring M88s and replacing them with A320s stationed in the NYC area would keep fleet operations simple by keeping the A320 MX in one area. B6's JFK facilities could take some of the load off DL with its outdated facilities and DL has plenty of room to consolidate operations in their terminal A at BOS.

Financing: This is the tricky part. DL is certainly big enough to absorb B6's 2.3B market cap, but whether its current board would be willing to assume the debt or could structure the deal in a way that makes sense remains to be seen. If the finances could be worked out, this could be a good merger for both carriers.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
GeorgeJetson
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:36 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 39):
One problem with that is that Delta got rid of the Wavy Gravy scheme in exchange for the red widget scheme. So the paint scheme you display will never happen, even if a merger does.

You do have a very good point. However, by the time such a merger takes place (if it ever does), chances are that Delta would have already phased out the red widget scheme (based on the frequency at which they keep re-branding themselves) with a totally different livery!
Meet George Jetson
 
GeorgeJetson
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:36 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 40):
Ewwwww. Wow, I didn't even think about that before. Forgot jetBlue was on the dark side.

Yeah, I know, Airbus never did use customer numbers, but it’s certainly a coincidence that jetBlue’s A320-232 rhymes with Delta’s 757-232!

Also, I would not be surprised if Boeing stops using customer numbers when their 787 and 747-8 come out now that their “series” designation only has one alphanumeric character instead of three.
Meet George Jetson
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking A

Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 38):
Flights seldomly depart late with B6.

Lollerskates.

[Edited 2007-09-12 04:01:49]
 
AA767LOVER
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:59 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 42):

I didn't say if it was supposed to be legitimate sir. Just stating the facts. I flew them two carriers. I have been in and out of airports a lot, and I have been flying as a pax for almost 27 years. When i walk in, and walk through a passenger terminal building, FOR ME, it creates an impression of either order or pandemonium if an airline has it together or not.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4539
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 41):

which was a good thing IF Massport would let DL put in customs then BOS would be a small hub.
but that wont happen so DL won't make it a hub.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Speculation In News Article DL My Be Looking At B6

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:17 pm

I can see how this could be a lucrative move for Delta. That said, why was it roughly a year ago that Delta reportedly said that they were cutting back on the domestic market (chopped the shit out of domestic CVG, for one, thank you DL) and focusing more on the International scene?

Were they intentionally cutting domestic routes in preparation to make this move?

This could be a genius move, or a total screw-over depending on how (if) it plays out.
We can agree to disagree.

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