B2443
Topic Author
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:37 pm

Even CAAC calls it "Initial Planning" and sorry no English version is available.
http://www.caac.gov.cn/A1/200709/t20070911_7920.html


For 2008:
CA Beijing-Berlin 7 weekly starting Mar 2008.
CA Beijing-Istanbul 7 weekly starting Mar 2008.
CA Beijing-Warsaw 7 weekly starting Oct 2008.

CZ Beijing-Newark 7 weekly starting Jul 2008.
CZ Guangzhou-Moscow 7 weekly starting Oct 2008

MU Shanghai-Los Angeles 2 weekly Jun 2008.

HU Beijing-Berlin 4 weekly May 2008
HU Beijing-Seattle 4 weekly Jun 2008

FM Shanghai-Vienna 5 weekly 2008 summer/fall
FM Shanghai-Hamburg 3 weekly 2008 summer/fall
FM Shanghai-Zurich 3 weekly 2008 summer/fall

For 2009:

CA Beijing-Toronto 7 weekly Mar 2009
CA Beijing-WashingtonDC 7 weekly Mar2009
CA Shanghai-San Francisco 7 weekly Mar2009
CA Beijing-Manchester 7 weekly Mar 2009
CA Beijing-Zurich 7 weekly Mar 2009
CA Beijing-Dusseldorf 7 weekly Oct 2009
CA Beijing-Vienna 7 weekly Oct 2009
CA Shanghai-Rome 7 weekly Oct 2009
CA Beijing-Milan 7 weekly Oct 2009

CZ Beijing-Detroit 7 weekly Mar 2009
CZ Beijing-London 7 weekly Mar 2009
CZ Guangzhou-Vancouver 7 weekly Jul 2009

HU Beijing-Chicago 7 wwekly Jun2009
HU Beijing-Newark 7 weekly Oct2009

FM Shanghai-Seattle 3 weekly Summer/Fall 2009
FM Shanghai-Los Angeles 7 weekly Summer/Fall 2009

Sounds like a huge plan. The article did mention to 'co-ordinate' with the new deliveries of 787/380s.
 
twolz2rn
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:03 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:44 pm

wow...would never have thought of CZ coming to DTW!
 
B2443
Topic Author
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting TwoLz2Rn (Reply 1):
would never have thought of CZ coming to DTW!

Nothing solid here though...but it seems well timed for NW's application to start DTW-PEK on Mar 09. By then CZ would have already been a skyteam member. Wonder if this would be a codeshare with NW on NW metals.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting TwoLz2Rn (Reply 1):
wow...would never have thought of CZ coming to DTW!

I wouldn't hold my breathe on that one.
a.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1814
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:01 am

 
PA101
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:28 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:11 am

Wow!

CA and HU to TXL/SXF, and FM to HAM??? Sounds great!
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting B2443 (Thread starter):
CA Beijing-WashingtonDC 7 weekly Mar2009

I never suspected that UA would face competition on this route so soon. If CA starts flying to IAD, three major Asian carriers, CA, KE, and NH, will offer daily nonstop transpacific flights from Washington to the three major Far Eastern cities, NRT, PEK, and ICN. IAD is becoming well connected toall parts of the globe. We now have direct flights to major centers in the Far East, Europe, the Middle East (KWI, DOH, RUH, and JED), Africa (ADD, DKR, and JNB), and Latin America (MEX, GUA, SAL, SJO, GIG, GRU,and EZE). I hope that AI joins CA in starting flights to IAD by 2009.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4457
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:36 am

So MU is reducing LAX to 2x weekly??? What gives?
It is what it is...
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1814
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
So MU is reducing LAX to 2x weekly??? What gives?

Or maybe their adding (2) flights for a total of 9.
 
papatango
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:07 am

Well the Chinese have announced their new routes when the DOT announce ours?
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:16 am

Detroit-Beijing? Am I missing something?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 10):
Detroit-Beijing? Am I missing something?

Half the routes on this list will never happen. Sort of like Hanian's Boston service.
a.
 
ZL
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:37 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Papatango (Reply 9):
Well the Chinese have announced their new routes when the DOT announce ours?

I'm suspecting that DOT would like to announce it as late as possible, because of the "2007 frequency".

DOT probably wants to award it to DL, but is relunctant to announce it early, as DL can't start service till Mar 08 but NW promises to start within 60 days of the final award. If DOT makes the decision too early, it may be subject to criticism from the public for not being able to maximize the public interest.

NW will use 747, and will start much earlier -- but DOT may prefer a new entrant more than anything.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19002
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Half the routes on this list will never happen. Sort of like Hainan's Boston service.

I wouldn't believe any HU new route plans until they actually begin. They also announced new service to GVA early this year, to start in July. It never happened.
http://fec2.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/p...otonews/200703/20070304412396.html
 
yvr1968
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:27 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting B2443 (Thread starter):
CZ Guangzhou-Vancouver 7 weekly Jul 2009

This was expected to start sooner, but the China desigation of Canada for ADS (approved destination status) has been delayed as well. Therefore, this would make sense for the delay in launching CAN-YVR service.

Same can be said for AC's delay in launching YVR-CAN flights. Without ADS status, the markets would be pretty thin.
 
PRGLY
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:42 pm

Surprising me PRG is not on the list. According reports from my collegues from Airport Authority and CAA there were couple of high profile CAAC delegations in PRG discussing opening flights and either CA or CZ seems to be quite decided to open it. According me CZ is more probable due Sky Team connections.
just fly - it is nice
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 10):
Detroit-Beijing? Am I missing something?

Here is the logic.
Skyteam member...skyteam hub...pick-up connecting traffic.
It is just like KE serving ATL and IAH. They can get DL's and CO's traffic.
DTW-PEK used to be codeshared with CA. But CA is going Star, so might as well have a Skyteam airline fly to a Skyteam hub.

Quoting B2443 (Reply 2):
but it seems well timed for NW's application to start DTW-PEK on Mar 09.

And didn't NW say that they would use a 744 if they got approval in 2008 and if they got it in 2009, they would use a 787? Capacity? Two 787 is just a few more pax than a 744. Basically split the route and the earnings.

There are quite a few in that list that go to hub cities of Alliance partners. This is especially true for the 2008 list for CA, CZ and MU.

CA Beijing-Istanbul: Turkish is looking to Join Star. CA is joining Star.
CA Beijing-Warsaw: Lot is a Star member. CA is joining Star.

CZ Beijing-Newark: CZ is a Skyteam Member. CO is a Skyteam member
CZ Guangzhou-Moscow: CZ is a skyteam member. SU is a Skyteam member.

MU Shanghai-Los Angeles: MU being courted by OneWorld. LA is a OneWorld hub. But this is in the end increased frequency.

Its a simple view but makes sense.

Ultimate question though is which routes will be A380s and which will be 787s?
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:52 pm

Has MU fallen out of favor? They really don't get anything here. CA takes all the spoils.
 
Deguoren
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:52 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
CZ Guangzhou-Moscow: CZ is a skyteam member. SU is a Skyteam member.

Complements their 3 (?) weekly service from URC.

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 17):
Has MU fallen out of favor? They really don't get anything here. CA takes all the spoils.

MU is a strange company. They serve strange national routes and CAAC announces once in a while that they will be merged (with FM, statement in 2006) or sold (statment in 2005/6 to CZ; 2007 investment of SQ) or whatsoever.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Sort of like Hanian's Boston service.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
They also announced new service to GVA early this year, to start in July. It never happened.

Why is HU not starting these services? How is their service to BUD doing?
 
Flighty
Posts: 7688
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:12 pm

Hainan Airlines. LOL. Whatever. Not in this decade.
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Half the routes on this list will never happen.

My thoughts as well. Some just plain do not make sense. Sounds as if carriers are just securing the rights while they can get them. If all these came off, I'd be shocked...impressed but shocked.
 
Drogba
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:54 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:45 am

Wow, CA really expanding to Europe. I'm really looking forward to see CA and HU in TXL. Are there some reports concerning the a/c? Probably both airlines will use their 767. Hopefully the 7/7 and 4/7 won't be reduced. Some rumours even say, that CA will visit TXL twice a day...
Next trips: TXL-VNO-FRA-ZRH-TXL, TXL-FRA-MAD-MUC-TXL , SXF-NAP-SXF, GWT-TXL
 
sq452
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:22 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
CA Beijing-Istanbul: Turkish is looking to Join Star. CA is joining Star.

Turkish is already joining star alliance...it was announced in Dec. 2006 that they will join.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Half the routes on this list will never happen. Sort of like Hainan's Boston service.

I wouldn't believe any HU new route plans until they actually begin. They also announced new service to GVA early this year, to start in July. It never happened.

Ditto, I don't believe a word coming from the horses mouth when it comes to HU. It's almost laughable how the BOS route hasn't gone anywhere, their credibility as an airline really suffers in my opinion when they have stuff like this happen. If only they could get their act together it would be great.

Quoting Deguoren (Reply 18):
MU is a strange company. They serve strange national routes and CAAC announces once in a while that they will be merged (with FM, statement in 2006) or sold (statment in 2005/6 to CZ; 2007 investment of SQ) or whatsoever.

Agreed, you almost wonder what sort of leverage SQ will have with the decision making process of MU and if they can raise the bar at MU to come up to par (or at least close to it) with SQ. The way I see it, the SQ stake in MU was more for a dollars and cents perspective on the financial possibilities down the road to be reaped from that deal, not the "this is two quality carriers coming together for the future" cause we all know there is such a disparity between MU's product and SQ's. It is my absolute sincere hope that SQ will at least get the people at MU motivated to turn that airline into China's world class carrier because as we all know, there has yet to be a world-class airline emerge from China that plays up there service and standard wise with the likes of NH, SQ, CX, EK, BA, VS, etc. etc. etc.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
flyiguy
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:21 pm

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 6):
Quoting B2443 (Thread starter):
CA Beijing-WashingtonDC 7 weekly Mar2009

I never suspected that UA would face competition on this route so soon. If CA starts flying to IAD, three major Asian carriers, CA, KE, and NH, will offer daily nonstop transpacific flights from Washington to the three major Far Eastern cities, NRT, PEK, and ICN. IAD is becoming well connected toall parts of the globe. We now have direct flights to major centers in the Far East, Europe, the Middle East (KWI, DOH, RUH, and JED), Africa (ADD, DKR, and JNB), and Latin America (MEX, GUA, SAL, SJO, GIG, GRU,and EZE). I hope that AI joins CA in starting flights to IAD by 2009.

Air China along with Shanghi Airlines are due to join STAR Alliance on December 12th 2007. So I can understand that they would run this route as it's an Alliance Hub and they would use UA for connecting traffic...Any thoughts?
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: New Routes Plan For China-Europe/N. America

Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 23):
Air China along with Shanghi Airlines are due to join STAR Alliance on December 12th 2007. So I can understand that they would run this route as it's an Alliance Hub and they would use UA for connecting traffic...Any thoughts?

I think that when CA finally joins *A, they'll put a code on UA's flight. Enough traffic for 2 daily services? I don't think so. Maybe if both airlines are using 787 size equipment.
oh boy, here we go!!!