RAFVC10
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Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:19 am

Hi all,

Clickair has announced that from October 28, will start operations from BCN to ATH, TFN and LPA after the intentions of the Spanish flag carrier to concentrate it's operations on "profitable" routes from Barcelona and to leave other destinations in hands of it's low-cost arm Clickair.

Athens, Gran Canaria and Tenerife North airports will see it's last scheduled IB flight from Barcelona on October 27.

So, Athens, will be served by XG three times a week (instead daily flight operated nowadays) and TFN and LPA will keep its daily flight.

The question is: what are the thoughts of Iberia? Which routes will follow to ATH, TFN and LPA? Maybe MAD, MXP, LHR or ORY?

In my opinion, IB has demonstrated its intentions to be a centralist carrier, leaving BCN and other airports as SVQ, BIO, VLC,... in the "non good hands" of Clickair. I know many people that prefers to reach its destination via any European city instead to take any XG flight.

As example, since the start-up of Clickair, other carriers as Lufthansa, Alitalia, TAP Air Portugal, Air France,... has experimented great demand in its own flights asking for more slots to operate BCN.

Your opinions?

Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
Joost
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Thread starter):
Which routes will follow to ATH, TFN and LPA? Maybe MAD, MXP, LHR or ORY?

As far as I recall, right from the start Iberia announced that eventually the only IB-route from BCN would be the flight to MAD. XG already serves LHR from LCG and VLC, ORY from VLC, and MXP from VLC and SVQ.

I have been a bit surprised on the XG move as well.

I can understand that they didn't want to operate a dual-hub strategy anymore. BA decided something similar and they have ceased operating all flights that to not start or end in London (except MAN-JFK) and left them to other carriers (LCCs, hub-feeders and FlyBE). Alitalia will also dismantle their 2-hub strategy as a part of their restructuring. And LH actually only has a 2-hub strategy because they couldn't expand FRA - whilst IB has great opportunities in MAD.

However, they could have followed the same strategy as LH did in CGN, STR and HAM: operate a O&D-based full-service carrier for the business flights, and have a LCC carrier serving the tourism flights (Germanwings).

I guess IB would have thought that all their IB clients would transfer to XG, but I can understand many of them left to other carriers, that offer higher frequencies. On the AMS-route, for example, XG flies the route 2-daily; compared to 6-daily by KLM, offering a better business product. XG competes more with HV for the vacation traffic, than for business pax I guess.
 
BBADXB
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:57 am

In my opinion, IB is doing like its partial-owner BA; IB is doing a 'Madrid Airlines', as BA does 'London Airways'.

I am against IB leaving BCN to XG. It seems that the only routes IB will continue to operate from BCN are MAD, and maybe LHR. I think that the few routes that IB still operates from BCN to other major hubs in Europe will be gone sooner rather than later.

I really hope that IB do a u-turn on their current strategy. After all, BA had to offload Go. I'd like to see IB taking back the routes it is abondoning at BCN. However, I'm afraid that this is a lost cause.

I fly legacy carriers, and will continue to do so as much as I can.

However, should I ever fly a LCC, I see no particular reason for flying XG instead of U2. Seeing how IB has been neglecting BCN, I'd choose U2 just to demonstrate my disapproval of the whole strategy, not to mention the alleged poor working conditions at XG.

And, just to make things very clear, I do not have any particular preference for Barcelona or Catalunya over any other region or city in Spain.

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IAD380
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:28 am

Like you, I don't understand why IB doesn't have a dual hub strategy based on MAD and BCN. MAD and BCN are both large an prosperous cities. I think that IB could attract a healthy combination of leisure and business travellers to both cities. Additionally, BCN is emerging as a longhaul destination. AA, DL, CO, AM, AV, AR and SQ either fly to BCN or have announced firm plans to do so. I believe that IB also would do well if it started nonstop flights from BCN to destinations in the western hemisphere, such as JFK, MIA, MEX, GRU, and EZE.

This dual hub model seems to work well for other European airlines that have two or more large cities that can serve as hubs for connecting passengers. LH has hubs at FRA and MUC, and perhaps it will eventually open another hub at BBI. If AZ had stronger finances and management, a dual hub strategy for FCO and MXP would probably turn out to be successful.
 
PHKLM
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 1):
XG competes more with HV for the vacation traffic, than for business pax I guess.

I'd say that's exactly what XG can compete on, price and hence holiday traffic.
Vueling seems more capable of attracting business traffic on the BCN route, or am I mistaking?
I flew AMS-BCN at the beginning of this year and tried to be as unprejudiced as possible but Vueling was a lot more pleasant than XG.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 4):
I flew AMS-BCN at the beginning of this year and tried to be as unprejudiced as possible but Vueling was a lot more pleasant than XG.

Same here. I can fly both airlines from LIS, the times are not more than 30 minutes different, prices usually similar (XG slightly cheaper) but Vueling is indeed more plesant, in my humble opinion.

I did find the BCN terminal a lot more chaotic than Madrid's T4 (yes, apples and oranges, I know). Let's see what happens when the new BCN Terminal opens. Will they extend the railway to the new terminal?

Back to topic, I understand the advantages of a single hub in terms of organisational simplicity (and route consolidation) but BCN is too big, wealthy and popular to just let go of. While the big streams of tourists coming to Barcelona will be happy having another low-cost option, switching to LCC service levels scares your biz pax away, which is bad. Competition is everywhere...

Edit: typo

[Edited 2007-09-11 18:56:06]

[Edited 2007-09-11 18:56:38]
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bullpitt
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:01 am

hi all

Quoting RAFVC10 (Thread starter):
In my opinion, IB has demonstrated its intentions to be a centralist carrier, leaving BCN and other airports as SVQ, BIO, VLC,... in the "non good hands" of Clickair. I know many people that prefers to reach its destination via any European city instead to take any XG flight.

Your opinion is fine everyone is entitled to one, but it's wrong IB is not a "Centralist carrier" there is no such thing. IB is a PRIVATE company it has only one goal, to make as much money as possible. If you can convince them that they can make more money if they changed their Hub to BCN they would. But that's not the case. Weather the decision to move most IB flights from BCN to Click air is a good one or not only time will tell. But I can assure you that if this doesn't work for them they won't doubt about re-taking the routes with IB metal.

Quoting Joost (Reply 1):
However, they could have followed the same strategy as LH did in CGN, STR and HAM: operate a O&D-based full-service carrier for the business flights, and have a LCC carrier serving the tourism flights (Germanwings).

That might work for LH but obviously IB have decided to do something else. As I always say only time will tell.
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BBADXB
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 6):
But I can assure you that if this doesn't work for them they won't doubt about re-taking the routes with IB metal.

I absolutely do not mean to be nasty, but I hope that IB's XG strategy fails miserably and quickly, with the least of detriment to its workforse so as to have mainline IB services restored as soon as possible. A lost cause? Maybe, but I'm still hoping to see IB go strong at BCN again some time in the near future.

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bullpitt
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:51 am

Hi

Quoting BBADXB (Reply 7):
I absolutely do not mean to be nasty, but I hope that IB's XG strategy fails miserably and quickly, with the least of detriment to its workforse so as to have mainline IB services restored as soon as possible. A lost cause? Maybe, but I'm still hoping to see IB go strong at BCN again some time in the near future.

As an IB employee and union member I couldn't agree with you more. but as you, I think donkeys will fly in Ohio before that happens.

Vueling was great when they started but so far have only manges to loose a considerable. amount of money and customer wise things are not running as smooth (logical the more flights the more problems.)

Remember that in todays market if matters more your ability to generate profits than having a great service and loose money. As an employee I know very well where I want to be.

 mischievous 
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RAFVC10
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 6):
Your opinion is fine everyone is entitled to one, but it's wrong IB is not a "Centralist carrier" there is no such thing. IB is a PRIVATE company it has only one goal, to make as much money as possible. If you can convince them that they can make more money if they changed their Hub to BCN they would. But that's not the case. Weather the decision to move most IB flights from BCN to Click air is a good one or not only time will tell. But I can assure you that if this doesn't work for them they won't doubt about re-taking the routes with IB metal.

Hi Bullpitt,

and in your opinion... would not be good to have dual hub in Spain (Madrid and Barcelona)? In an emerging place, as said our colleague IAD380 and a potential Mediterranean city?

I never wrote or said that the IB hub must to me moved to BCN.

As a I employee, don't you think that the synergies of both carriers must to be aligned (to issue an XG with IB flight in the same ticket; to have access to Club Fiesta or Ieria Plus Emerald to VIP lounges; to have any in-flight service as the Business service offered by IB,...)

Regards,

Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 3):
I believe that IB also would do well if it started nonstop flights from BCN to destinations in the western hemisphere, such as JFK, MIA, MEX, GRU, and EZE.

That will be the role of Iberia's partners. For example, American Airlines is launching JFK-BCN this summer, and MIA-BCN is being planned as well.
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WonderFan
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:51 am

I think IB did what it had to do in the face of the heavy attack from the LCC's. IB understood that what counts is not to serve every single city or compete for every single piece of market. IB realized that it had to focus on what could generate the most money and where it could shine best: long haul traffic. This required consolidating its MAD hub so that every flight could now be a portential feeder for the long haul traffic. One example is that by leaving ATH to XG, IB can now add a third flight to ATH from MAD (and I'm sure it will in the near future), which will enhance long haul by providing feed, rather than having a flight from BCN to ATH that was pretty much terminal (except maybe for some domestic connection possiblities).
 
bullpitt
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:04 am

Hi Gerard

IB gold and platinum card holders flying with XG can now use IB lounges and can also earn points towards their accounts. I (contrary to popular belief) have nothing against BCN ( in fact have lived in Tarragona for many years) My son was born in Reus. If IB is pulling out from BCN is because economically it benefits the company, (el dinero no tiene patria) and as I have said before when IB feels it's time to return they will.

IB's main goal now is to keen in the black, times are very difficult for all carriers see VY, AZ ,JK, UX and others that can disappear with a wink of the eye. So as an employee I have confidence in my fellow colleagues and their analysis of the situation. (Which by the way they have shown they know what they are doing).Future agreements with XG I'm sure are in the minds of those responsible for IB's customer service.
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Humberside
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:46 am

So what do IB have left in BCN now, both mainline and Air Nostrum? Obviously theres MAD, LHR and ORY
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upperdeckfan
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:50 am

First, as I have said before and as Bullpit already stated, IB choice of centralising at MAD is based on business and only in business and whether it ends up in the future being a bad one only time will tell.

IB is focusing themselves mainly on long haul, and having only one hub fits very well with that strategy. To be consistent with that strategy they are no longer interested in competing on routes like BCN-AMS or BCN to other non OW hubs (CDG, FRA, MXP, MUC). On the other way around, IB is beefing up their schedules from european hubs to MAD to feed their long haul network.

Most of the fligths between a non-hub city like BCN and hubs like CDG, AMS or FRA are feeders to AF, KL, LH long haul network respectively.

I work in Valencia and since IB/BA dropped VLC-LHR my colleagues going to Asia/Middle East/Africa are using AF instead of BA, have been told that AF's codeshare with UX on VLC-CDG is performing extremely well.

We a.netters can argue here that we don't like LCC's but keep in mind we're an insignificant piece of the cake and most of the common people flying intra-europe on leisure would happily fly a LCC if rates are cheapier no matter anything else.

IMO, IB decision will prove right in the future but in the other hand there are a few downsides, specially dropping mainline services to LHR from medium markets like VLC, SVQ, BIO. I think they could've done better agreeing with BA on keeping at least one daily on these ones as feeders to BA long haul network.
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Aisak
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
So what do IB have left in BCN now, both mainline and Air Nostrum? Obviously theres MAD, LHR and ORY

Using IB own metal:

- Air shuttle flights marketed as Puente Aéreo/Pont Aeri between Terminal C @BCN and Terminal 4 @MAD
- Internationalized MAD flights connecting to longhaul between Terminal B @BCN and Terminal 4 Satellite @MAD
- Regular MAD flights between Terminal B @BCN and Terminal 4 @MAD
- London Heathrow as part of the deal with BA, revenue sharing
- ORY, BRU and MXP international
- OVD (mix with YW), MAH (mix with YW), PMI and BIO domestic

Using Air Nostrum:
- SDR, LEN, VLL, SLM, VIT, EAS, RJL, PNA, BJZ, ABC, VLC, MJV, LEI, MLN domestic
- MRS, NCE, NTE, TRN, HAJ and BLQ international

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 14):
specially dropping mainline services to LHR from medium markets like VLC, SVQ, BIO. I think they could've done better agreeing with BA on keeping at least one daily on these ones as feeders to BA long haul network.

Also BA only feeds IB from London (Gatwick, Heathrow and City). The IB-BA cooperation or market-sharing (IB to Latam and BA to Asia and N.America) cannot be considered as such.
Seems IB has though that VLC, BIO and SVQ long-haul passenger numbers (and revenue) are not that big to be handed in or shared with BA.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:19 pm

Quoting RAFVC10 (Thread starter):
The question is: what are the thoughts of Iberia? Which routes will follow to ATH, TFN and LPA? Maybe MAD, MXP, LHR or ORY?

I'd say TFN will remain to be operated by IB due to the very high demand, hence why they send at least one widebody a day. Maybe a few frequencies could go to XG, while the widebody flight to TFN continues to be operated by IB.

BTW: Why is IB serving ORY instead of CDG?

Quoting RAFVC10 (Thread starter):
In my opinion, IB has demonstrated its intentions to be a centralist carrier, leaving BCN and other airports as SVQ, BIO, VLC,... in the "non good hands" of Clickair. I know many people that prefers to reach its destination via any European city instead to take any XG flight.

This makes me wonder about the future of the Puente Aéreo as well. Could the MAD-BCN shuttle be in danger of being transferred to XG?

Quoting BBADXB (Reply 2):
In my opinion, IB is doing like its partial-owner BA; IB is doing a 'Madrid Airlines', as BA does 'London Airways'.

I prefer the term "Madrid Airways".  Wink
 
TriStar500
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:23 pm

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
Using IB own metal:

- Air shuttle flights marketed as Puente Aéreo/Pont Aeri between Terminal C @BCN and Terminal 4 @MAD
- Internationalized MAD flights connecting to longhaul between Terminal B @BCN and Terminal 4 Satellite @MAD
- Regular MAD flights between Terminal B @BCN and Terminal 4 @MAD
- London Heathrow as part of the deal with BA, revenue sharing
- ORY, BRU and MXP international
- OVD (mix with YW), MAH (mix with YW), PMI and BIO domestic

Don't forget BCN-ALC, which also remains mainline at least during the coming winter timetable.
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upperdeckfan
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:49 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
BTW: Why is IB serving ORY instead of CDG?

Has been explained in other threads, majority of people flying BCN-ORY on IB are terminating their journey in Paris so ORY is a more convenient location, CDG is a non OW hub so people connecting on AF long haul network would fly UX or AF out of BCN instead of IB.

Of course this strategy hurts people connecting with OW partners AA, JL or CX at CDG, but still have the option of BCN-CDG on XG.
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IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:15 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
I'd say TFN will remain to be operated by IB due to the very high demand, hence why they send at least one widebody a day. Maybe a few frequencies could go to XG, while the widebody flight to TFN continues to be operated by IB.

Just a small correction as there seems to be a small misunderstanding here.

Remember we are talking about BCN here. IB's widebody flights to TFN are operated from MAD only, which is not a Clickair base nor destination.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 18):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
BTW: Why is IB serving ORY instead of CDG?

Has been explained in other threads, majority of people flying BCN-ORY on IB are terminating their journey in Paris so ORY is a more convenient location, CDG is a non OW hub so people connecting on AF long haul network would fly UX or AF out of BCN instead of IB.

Of course this strategy hurts people connecting with OW partners AA, JL or CX at CDG, but still have the option of BCN-CDG on XG.

Just as a sidenote, IB flies to both ORY and CDG from MAD.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
This makes me wonder about the future of the Puente Aéreo as well. Could the MAD-BCN shuttle be in danger of being transferred to XG?

No. This is a big moneymaker for IB.

What they are planning do is to "re-adjust" their capacity on these flights by operating them exclusively with A319 aircraft instead of the current aircraft combination. That way they will offer less seats while mantaining the same number of flights. This is supposedly meant to counter the forecasted effects of the high speed train between Madrid and Barcelona when it starts it's services.
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Aisak
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
BTW: Why is IB serving ORY instead of CDG?

Simple awnser: 'cause they can  Smile. It seems Aéroports de Paris hasn't been able to move all the international carriers to CDG, and IB, TP, UX and a few others remain at ORY.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 19):
Just as a sidenote, IB flies to both ORY and CDG from MAD.

and Air Nostrum flies SDR, VLL, PMI, IBZ and OVD to ORY but ZAZ goes to CDG.
If two out of ten MAD-PAR flights go to CDG and one out of 6 regional routes goes to CDG i'd say it's a slot/gate issue. I doesn't make sense to split paris operations between ORY and CDG.
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 12):

IB gold and platinum card holders flying with XG can now use IB lounges

Hola Fernando,

I'm not agree with your comment. I'm a Club Fiesta member since last year and with this Frequent Flyer card, Iberia, in many times, don't allow me to enter in the Gaudi VIP lounge because the flight I fly is not an Iberia (100% operated)flight.

My discussions with IB team at BCN airport are regular for this reason. Mr. Echegaray, director of Barcelona Airport, is studying, as I heard from him, to allow Gold, Emerald and Club Fiesta members to use without any charge the AENA VIP lounge after the negative of Iberia to allow Clickair passengers to enter in any of his two VIP lounges.

The last time that IB Barcelona team denegate me to enter in the VIP lounge was last week.

But as Spanish people said, and you know: "La esperanza es lo ultimo que se pierde" (Hope is the last that you can loose). So, I retry any time I will fly with XG. Big grin

Un saludo.

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
Using IB own metal:

- Air shuttle flights marketed as Puente Aéreo/Pont Aeri between Terminal C @BCN and Terminal 4 @MAD
- Internationalized MAD flights connecting to longhaul between Terminal B @BCN and Terminal 4 Satellite @MAD
- Regular MAD flights between Terminal B @BCN and Terminal 4 @MAD
- London Heathrow as part of the deal with BA, revenue sharing
- ORY, BRU and MXP international
- OVD (mix with YW), MAH (mix with YW), PMI and BIO domestic

Asturias will be served by Clickair from February 2008; Menorca will loose IB flights on October 27; Bilbao will see Clickair operating from Barcelona on December 1st;

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 17):
Don't forget BCN-ALC, which also remains mainline at least during the coming winter timetable.

Alicante will see Clickair flights from December 2007.
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acelanzarote
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:42 am

What will happen with the Summer only IBE mainline flights, i.e. BCN-ACE on a Sat. Will Clickair
Operate it or will the route disappear??
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Humberside
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 21):
Bilbao will see Clickair operating from Barcelona on December 1st;

Will IB still do BCN-Bilbao-LHR?
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BBADXB
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:10 am

Is IB also handing their ALC-BCN route to XG now? This is really bad for me. At this point, they may really claim to be Iberia Madrid Airlines, instead of Iberia Spanish Airlines, as if they continue like this, any non Madrid flight will go to XG. I'm not impressed.

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Aisak
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 23):
Will IB still do BCN-Bilbao-LHR?

I don't think so. But they can easily fo BCN-LHR-BIO-LHR-BCN or MAD-LHR-BIO-LHR-MAD.

Seems like BIO-LHR will be the last non-MAD route for IB....
 
bullpitt
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:38 am

HI all

Quote:
Barcelona, 12 sep (EFE).- Iberia, junto con sus asociadas Iberia Regional/Air Nostrum y Clickair, ha alcanzado en julio una cuota de mercado en el aeropuerto de El Prat del 32,3%, 1,5 puntos porcentuales más que el mismo mes de 2006, según un comunicado de la línea aérea de bandera.

Just came across this piece of information which I think is very interesting,

Barcelona, 12 sep (EFE).- Iberia, with its partners Iberia Regional/Air Nostrum and Clickair, have reached in july a market quota in El Prat airport of 32,3%, 1,5 percentage points more than the same period 2006, according to a release from the airline.

By the way Gerard I should have made it more clear. Gold and Platinum card holders can use the VIP rooms that belong to IB if the fly with Click air as an IB passenger (Flight has to be IB5XXX)
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BOAC911
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:59 am

I think a strategy that Iberia appears to have deliberately forgone is the possiblilty of operating regional jets (Air Nostrum ) on routes with a healthy share of full-fare or business passengers. Bologna for example is one Italy's largest Trade Show cities with lots of business people traveling during trade show dates. BCN-BLQ has been flown 3x daily for quite a while using Air Nostrum. Why has IB not done the same with FRA or CDG? BA has done this at MAN and BHM.
 
Humberside
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 27):
BA has done this at MAN and BHM

And it didnt work. The operations have been sold to Flybe

The best example of how to make regional operations work is LH
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upperdeckfan
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RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
Seems IB has though that VLC, BIO and SVQ long-haul passenger numbers (and revenue) are not that big to be handed in or shared with BA.

I agree that was IB/BA aproach when they dropped mainline service from VLC, SVQ and BIO (soon to be) to LHR, but I just wonder whether putting Air Nostrum would make sense.

Let me explain myself with an example, when I go from VLC to LAX, if I want to go thru LHR I could use XG on the VLC-LHR leg and then BA onwards but the issue here is because XG LCC model, ticket has to be issued right away at the time of booking and in case you cancel afterwards you don't get full refund.

Usually people flying for business need a fully flexible - fully refundable ticket, so iny case since BA/IB dropped VLC-LHR I've to go VLC-MAD-LHR-LAX to stay within OW.

BTW, some of us at our company are trying to convince management to get a deal with SKY to take advantage of UX/AF double daily VLC-CDG and connect long haul on AF.

That's why I was wondering if it could be profitable putting a daily Air Nostrum RJ on VLC-LHR or BIO-LHR as feeders for BA long haul network.

I recognize that's a long shot since IB strategy is to transfer LHR slots from elsewhere to MAD, IIRC they are around 12xdaily MAD-LHR between both cariers.
744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:52 pm

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 21):
Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 17):
Don't forget BCN-ALC, which also remains mainline at least during the coming winter timetable.

Alicante will see Clickair flights from December 2007.

Thanks for the information. Last time I looked (about a week ago), the CRS still showed IB mainline flights on the route for March/ April 2008.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: Iberia Leaves More Routes In BCN

Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 29):
That's why I was wondering if it could be profitable putting a daily Air Nostrum RJ on VLC-LHR or BIO-LHR as feeders for BA long haul network.



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 29):
I just wonder whether putting Air Nostrum would make sense.

I would make sense. For two reasons. The most important is the price of the slot. Imagine a congested airport.... LHR is worst. So using a CRJ even if it's a -900 wouldn't return the same profit than an airbus... And the second is the thing I told above... They would simply hand in passengers to BA having to cover the costs of the feeder flight and the slot.
MAD-LHR and BCN-LHR are somehow different as IB-BA operate the routes 50%-50% no matter whose plane it is. If they have Antitrust Inmunity for all UK-Spain routes maybe this would change.

There are several reasons to explain why the feeding just doesn't work.
From the IB side: LHR too expensive just to act as a feeder for BA and hard competition on O/D traffic between UK-Spain
From the BA side: MAD's America's wave departure is too early for flights from UK given the block time of the flight (2+ hours), the min. conn. time (55 minutes) and the 1 hour time difference between UK and Spain
That's why the traffic is almost exclusive to hubs.

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