panamair
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Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:33 pm

According to a Q3 Investor update filed today, DL has exercised options for another two 772LRs for delivery in 2009. Total 77Ls ordered to date is now 8 frames, with 3 to be delivered in 2008 and another 5 in 2009.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/...et.aspx?FilingID=5422996&Type=HTML

Total of 8 77Ls should allow for up to 5 ULH routes with some operating at less-than-daily frequencies...

[Edited 2007-09-12 15:39:54]
 
LY777
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:43 pm

Great news! Can't wait to see the 77L in DL colours!!!
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:50 pm

Good news indeed. Now Delta's 777 fleet is evenly matched. 8 777-232ERs with RR engines, and now 8 777-232LRs with GE engines. Sounds like Delta is coming back!  Wink
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
jfk777
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:00 pm

I will cheer when the fleet reaches 30 777 with 777-300ER included. If Delta wants to play with the BIG DOGS it needs 777 at many European cities from JFK especially LHR. If DL wants to be a real not marginal player in the JFK-LHR market it needs the 777 as its plane on the route.
 
MCOAviationFan
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:16 pm

Alitalia 744 and Jetlanta called this one last July 29 in a related topic on the DL 777. Note the below response from Jetlanta to a post by myself and Alitalia 744. These folks were right on.  bigthumbsup 


Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?

It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come.


My apologies. I had to copy and paste rather than quote selected text. My computer would not allow ,e to copy the quoted text.
 
NYC777
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:18 pm

I have a feeling that the DL 787 order is just around the corner.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:48 pm

Well sounds like it's official now  Wink
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
NYC777
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:11 am

Anyone know the status of the 125 x 787 order that DL said is coming?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
zvezda
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
Total of 8 77Ls should allow for up to 5 ULH routes with some operating at less-than-daily frequencies...

I think it would be nuts to (as TG did) operate any ULH route less frequently than daily. ULH routes demand very high yields, which are only available with daily or higher frequencies.
 
positiverate
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
If Delta wants to play with the BIG DOGS it needs 777 at many European cities from JFK especially LHR

Delta is a "big dog" in Europe. Probably the only markets that could consistently support a 777 out of JFK are LHR and CDG. Let's not go crazy...
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Anyone know the status of the 125 x 787 order that DL said is coming?

DL has said they will order up to 125 B-787s "by the end of this year". I believe it will be a mix of up to 30 B-787-300s, 45 B-787-800s and 50 B-787-900s.

But, it looks like the B-777 will be the true heavy hauler for DL, replacing the B-767-300ER/400ER (which replaced the L-1011s). I don't see DL ordering any more B-777-200ERs, but will instead set the fleet with about 30-35 B-777-200LRs and 50-60 B-777-300ERs. DL will become the first US airline to order the B-777-300ER, but they will be followed by AA, CO, NW, and UA for the type.

The 8 remaining DL B-777-200ERs may be traded to AA for the remaining 15 former TW B-757s with the P&W engines. The DL B-777s have the same RR engines as the AA B-777-200ERs do.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
I think it would be nuts to (as TG did) operate any ULH route less frequently than daily. ULH routes demand very high yields, which are only available with daily or higher frequencies.

Too true. That said, depending on the scheduling of the flight, 5 daily flights could in theory be possible with 8 77Ls, if you were to figure that 2 pairs of 3 777s could be used for an Pacific-ATL-Atlantic routing, and the other two for a flight ATL-India. Not sure whether how well that works out in reality, but it should be possible.
 
jfk777
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:40 am

I am concerned about DL spreading its self to wide and thin with LAX going international to ?, Atlanta to Sydney, nonstop South Africa, replacing the 777-200ER from JFK to Mumbai and any other myths yet to come.
 
zvezda
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 11):
5 daily flights could in theory be possible with 8 77Ls, if you were to figure that 2 pairs of 3 777s could be used for an Pacific-ATL-Atlantic routing, and the other two for a flight ATL-India. Not sure whether how well that works out in reality, but it should be possible.

I would expect DL to use their 777-200LRs to fly transpacific routes out of ATL or perhaps JFK. India is also possible. I would be very surprised if DL were to use 777-200LRs transatlantic.

I don't see how more than four daily services would be possible with a fleet of eight. What is your predicted utilization for five daily routes?
 
panamair
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:49 am

The current 8 777-200ERs are used on 5 routes - 2 in a westerly direction and 3 going east from the U.S. All are daily except for ICN (4x weekly), and DXB (5x weekly), not counting the ATL-LAX turn in between:

ATL-NRT
ATL-ICN (4x weekly)
ATL-DXB (5x weekly)
ATL-TLV
ATL-JFK-BOM

Hence, it's an easy conclusion that 8 77Ls can do up to 5 routes if they are split between transpacific and transatlantic (much like they are today) with the less-than-daily frequencies on one or two to provide some breathing room. Chances are these 8 will be split between some transpacific and some transatlantic flying (additional India, Africa). Also, remember that they could also sub the current BOM and other routes from the ER to the LR, thus freeing up the ERs for some transpac flying that doesn't need the LR.

[Edited 2007-09-12 17:51:23]
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
I would expect DL to use their 777-200LRs to fly transpacific routes out of ATL or perhaps JFK. India is also possible. I would be very surprised if DL were to use 777-200LRs transatlantic.

India is what I meant with Atlantic, seeing as how any ATL-India flights should head east instead of west.
And for the heck of it, I speculate on:
HKG-ATL-BOM, 3 planes
PEK-ATL-DEL, 3 planes
ATL-JNB, 2 planes

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
But, it looks like the B-777 will be the true heavy hauler for DL, replacing the B-767-300ER/400ER

DL isn't replacing any 767s with 777s.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
I don't see DL ordering any more B-777-200ERs, but will instead set the fleet with about 30-35 B-777-200LRs and 50-60 B-777-300ERs.

You see DL flying 80-95 777NGs? Sorry, I'm a Deltoid like many here, but that is just way too unrealistic to even contemplate.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
DL will become the first US airline to order the B-777-300ER, but they will be followed by AA, CO, NW, and UA for the type.

Agreed on DL being the first customer, but don't see any other carrier follow save maybe. CO prefers to grow with planes the size of 772/789s, NW doesn't have any 777s to begin with, and UA is more a 748/380 candidate in my book.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
The 8 remaining DL B-777-200ERs may be traded to AA for the remaining 15 former TW B-757s with the P&W engines.

DL won't trade in even a single measly 777 for 757s.
 
MCOAviationFan
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 12):
replacing the 777-200ER from JFK to Mumbai and any other myths yet to come.

Replacing the 777-200ER from JFK-BOM is not a myth. Jim Whitehurst stated on numerous occasions before he left DL that the plan was to shift these aircraft to ATL-PVG, if awarded, and allocate the first two 777LRs to the JFK-BOM route. I doubt this plan has changed just because Whitehurst left.

ATL-SYD is strictly an a.net rumor for now. No mention of this from DL and many of the most knowledgeable posters have stated there are no plans for this service at this time. The LAX international push is a couple of years away. Most transpac service would require 777s so DL needs to wait until more 777s are delivered before embarking on this path. Using 767-300s transpac is also an a.net rumor at this time.

What Ed Bastian has stated is that DL will continue pushing international expansion with an emphasis on Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. The orders for eight 777LRs (possibly more to come according to Jetlanta) reinforce Bastian's statement as they will most likely be used for ATL - Asia service in addition to ATL-JNB nonstop and ATL-BOM nonstop. The Middle East can be served from JFK with the 767-300ER especially with winglets added.
 
panamair
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 16):
The Middle East can be served from JFK with the 767-300ER especially with winglets added.

Only the Middle East "side" with TLV, AMM, CAI, BEY.... The other 'side' like DXB, AUH, DOH, BAH, KWI, etc., cannot be done nonstop with the 763ER even with winglets, or at least not without some payload restrictions.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 16):
Using 767-300s transpac is also an a.net rumor at this time.

Actually, when the winglet installation was announced, Whitehurst mentioned that this would allow for some LAX-transpac flights, though he quickly stepped back and said "it doesn't mean we will..."

[Edited 2007-09-12 18:18:27]

[Edited 2007-09-12 18:18:59]
 
dutchjet
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:16 am

In any case, congratulations to DL on ordering another two of these magnificent airplanes.....the mix of 8 772ERs and 8 772LRs (for now) will give DL much flexibility in operating longhaul and ultra long haul routes.
 
sxf24
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
The 8 remaining DL B-777-200ERs may be traded to AA for the remaining 15 former TW B-757s with the P&W engines. The DL B-777s have the same RR engines as the AA B-777-200ERs do.

there were 22 PW-powered TW 757s originally acquired by AA. Here's a full list (by manufacturers number) and were they are currently committed:

27620 DL
27624 DL
27625 DL
28160 ILFC - STORED
28162 DL
28163 DL
28165 DL
28168 DL
28169 DL
28173 DL
28479 AA
28480 ETHIOPIAN
28482 BLUE PANORAMA
28483 BLUE PANORAMA
28485 AA
28487 UZBEKISTAN
28488 UZBEKISTAN
29378 FAR EASTERN
29385 FAR EASTERN
29954 DL
30319 ETHEOPIAN
30340 AA

The three listed with AA are leased from Pegasus Aviation, which has had discussions with DL for those frames.
 
LAXorLGWonDL
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 17):

Only the Middle East "side" with TLV, AMM, CAI, BEY.... The other 'side' like DXB, AUH, DOH, BAH, KWI, etc., cannot be done nonstop with the 763ER even with winglets, or at least not without some payload restrictions.

Perhaps I'm asking a silly questions...but I am curious. Does anyone know what cargo loads are like from the ME? Given the growth (I was in Qatar in July and blown away by it), I'd think it's pretty good.

Thanks!
Next Up: STR, JFK, ATL, TPA, ANC
 
MCOAviationFan
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 17):
Only the Middle East "side" with TLV, AMM, CAI, BEY.... The other 'side' like DXB, AUH, DOH, BAH, KWI, etc., cannot be done nonstop with the 763ER even with winglets, or at least not without some payload restrictions.

Excellent point! I do see JFK-CAI as a strong possibility for summer 2008. AMM is also possible, although I believe, not likely at least for 2008. DL has shied away from one-stop flights such as the JFK-CAI-DXB route they operated for a short time in 2001 so I do not see these type of routings being used. I believe DL will stay with nonstop routings from the U.S. for their international flights.
 
zvezda
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 14):
ATL-NRT
ATL-ICN (4x weekly)
ATL-DXB (5x weekly)
ATL-TLV
ATL-JFK-BOM

Hence, it's an easy conclusion that 8 77Ls can do up to 5 routes if they are split between transpacific and transatlantic (much like they are today) with the less-than-daily frequencies on one or two to provide some breathing room. Chances are these 8 will be split between some transpacific and some transatlantic flying (additional India, Africa). Also, remember that they could also sub the current BOM and other routes from the ER to the LR, thus freeing up the ERs for some transpac flying that doesn't need the LR.

I don't see DL (or anyone else) putting 777-200ERs on transpacific routes in order to shift 777-200LRs to transatlantic routes. The other way around seems much more likely.

It seems very likely that DL will put the 777-200LRs on longer routes than the 777-200ER (on average). Therefore, it is not far-fetched to imagine 30 weekly frequencies dropping to 28. That would even be optimistic if it were not for the likelihood that no tags would be involved.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
India is what I meant with Atlantic, seeing as how any ATL-India flights should head east instead of west.
And for the heck of it, I speculate on:
HKG-ATL-BOM, 3 planes
PEK-ATL-DEL, 3 planes
ATL-JNB, 2 planes

Given that rotation, the utilization would be ... ?
 
jetlanta
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 4):
Alitalia 744 and Jetlanta called this one last July 29 in a related topic on the DL 777. Note the below response from Jetlanta to a post by myself and Alitalia 744. These folks were right on. bigthumbsup


Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?

It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come.


My apologies. I had to copy and paste rather than quote selected text. My computer would not allow ,e to copy the quoted text.

Thanks for not making me say "I told you so."  Smile

These 8 are not likely the last of the 777-200LR's for Delta.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
I think it would be nuts to (as TG did) operate any ULH route less frequently than daily. ULH routes demand very high yields, which are only available with daily or higher frequencies.

Except that some of the LRs might be used to add a 2nd frequency to another gateway, in which case DL would still be daily on every day of the week and double daily on others. TG doesn’t have multiple gateways to use.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
HKG-ATL-BOM, 3 planes

ATL-HKG is too long to be able to fly it roundtrip so that it would leave and be back in time to hit the connecting banks – and ATL has them arriving very early and leaving very late. ATLHKG and anything south of it (BKK, SIN) would require 2 A/C with some wasted time in the rotation. For now, DL will not likely be wasting any aircraft time. Even JFKHKG cannot be flown with less than 2 aircraft.


There will be more 777LRs for DL. Boeing only needs 18 months notice which is why DL is getting the 8 on order fairly fast. They still have not had to order what they will need for the winter of 2009-10 or beyond.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:42 am

Would DL switch the ICN and NRT route for a LR? If so, this would free up the 200ER for Atlantic runs to CDG amd LHR.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
DL has said they will order up to 125 B-787s "by the end of this year". I believe it will be a mix of up to 30 B-787-300s, 45 B-787-800s and 50 B-787-900s.

Dont we mean say order 30 with options for the remainder (whatever models). That would be a shit load of debt to take on board at once. I will believe it when I see it.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 23):
Thanks for not making me say "I told you so."

You're a more humble man than I am my friend!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 24):
ATL-HKG is too long to be able to fly it roundtrip so that it would leave and be back in time to hit the connecting banks – and ATL has them arriving very early and leaving very late. ATLHKG and anything south of it (BKK, SIN) would require 2 A/C with some wasted time in the rotation.

ATL-BKK and ATL-SIN are not plausible nonstop routes. There is no chance that DL could make money operating them with a 777-200LR.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 25):
Would DL switch the ICN and NRT route for a LR?

That seems likely enough to me. There is probably good cargo revenue to be had by increasing the payload on those routes.
 
Slovacek747
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:10 pm

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:29 am

I believe HKG is a possibiltiy from ATL. It is over 1000 miles shorter than EWR-
Also, does anyone think DL will do a LAX-HKG route?

Slovacek747

[Edited 2007-09-12 20:40:55]
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 29):
It is over 1000 miles shorter than EWR-HKG which is currently being by the 345 and I believe the 772LR has more range than the 345...Correct me if I'm wrong.

EWR-HKG is over 300 standard miles shorter than ATL-HKG.

NS
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 29):
does anyone think DL will do a LAX-HKG route?

If UA can't make LAX-HKG work with all their LAX feed, I don't see how DL might. Admittedly, the 777-200LR is better suited to the route than UA's 747-400s, but DL have little feed into LAX anymore.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2788
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
Sounds like Delta is coming back!

Where did the go?  Wink

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
I will cheer when the fleet reaches 30 777 with 777-300ER included.

Cant see 300s, and when you add the 764s to the 777s, you have a respectable number of big planes.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
I have a feeling that the DL 787 order is just around the corner.

I hope so.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
If Delta wants to play with the BIG DOGS it needs 777 at many European cities from JFK especially LHR.



Quoting Positiverate (Reply 9):
Delta is a "big dog" in Europe.

Thas what I was thinking when i read that....

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
DL isn't replacing any 767s with 777s.

Exactly, the 763s, 764s, 772s, and 77Ls combined will be quite a nice widebody fleet.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 26):
That would be a shit load of debt to take on board at once. I will believe it when I see it.

Not sure what you mean, it will probably be half options, and half will require deposits. Whats the big deal? The deliveries will be spread out over many years, as will the incurred cost for each plane due at delivery. Delta likes a slow trickle of new metal, as do most large airlines, which means a slow trickle of accumulated debt balanced out as much as possible by paydown of exisitng debt.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4549
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:11 am

ATL-HKG 7298nm
ATL-PEK 6243nm
ATL-PVG 6656nm
ATL-BKK 7958nm
ATL-SIN 8695nm
ATL-SYD 8068nm
ATL-MEL 8419nm
ATL-DEL 6923nm
ATL-BOM 7295nm
ATL-CAN 7247nm
ATL-SGN 8071nm
all well within the 9420nm of range of the 77L and most with in the range of the 772ER (7730nm)
(yes I know DL won't fly routes like ATL-SGN but just wanted to compare the ranges so please don't bash me)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:27 am

The chances of them taking them fitted with tanks is zero. Nobody has yet selected that option.

Its extra weight that isn't needed for the routes that matter.

So, scratch SIN, SYD, and MEL nonstops from ATL off the list.

NS
 
brilondon
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
will cheer when the fleet reaches 30 777 with 777-300ER included. If Delta wants to play with the BIG DOGS it needs 777 at many European cities from JFK especially LHR. If DL wants to be a real not marginal player in the JFK-LHR market it needs the 777 as its plane on the route.

I would like to think that DL is a "BIG DOG" and what does having the 777 in its fleet have to do with it. They have more destinations in Europe then AA, UA and they are adding more every year. I really don't see how you can not say that they are not a major player just because they don't have a large fleet of 777's.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
DL has said they will order up to 125 B-787s "by the end of this year". I believe it will be a mix of up to 30 B-787-300s, 45 B-787-800s and 50 B-787-900s.

Somehow I doubt DL is going to order 125 787s at one time.....

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
But, it looks like the B-777 will be the true heavy hauler for DL, replacing the B-767-300ER/400ER (which replaced the L-1011s).

Maybe on certain routes, but I don't see replacing DL replacing the 763/764 with the 777, aircraft for aircraft. If anything replaces the 767s on a large scale, it's obviously going to be the 787.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
but will instead set the fleet with about 30-35 B-777-200LRs and 50-60 B-777-300ERs.

So 95 777NGs? Where would DL be sending all this lift to? Especially the 77Ws, DL may certainly get 77Ws but I think 50-60 aircraft is slightly idealistic to say the least. And so let's assume DL will eventually purchase 125 787s too, that'll be 125 787s which will replace most if not all of the 767s. Not counting the 757s, DL will then be increasing its long haul fleet ten-fold? I'll believe that when I see it. Even with DL's unprecedented expansion, that's something that rivals EK in terms of excess.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
The 8 remaining DL B-777-200ERs may be traded to AA for the remaining 15 former TW B-757s with the P&W engines. The DL B-777s have the same RR engines as the AA B-777-200ERs do.

I think a.net'ers put way too much importance on fleet commonality. I think getting rid of the -ERs would be the absolute last thing DL would do right now, especially with the way its expanding. Nevermind the fact that I *think* AA doesn't own those 757s in the first place, they're leased. AA can't trade what they don't own.
PHX based
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 36):
Somehow I doubt DL is going to order 125 787s at one time.....

I think some of those would be options, not firm orders right away. Including options and "purchase rights" QF ordered 115 787s. DL are a lot bigger than QF, right?
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 25):
Would DL switch the ICN and NRT route for a LR? If so, this would free up the 200ER for Atlantic runs to CDG amd LHR.

Ain't going to happen...still too few 777s to 'waste' on CDG and LHR. As we've discussed on here before, we won't be seeing any DL 777s in Continental Europe...they will all be needed for Asia/Africa/Middle East.

LHR will most likely get the refurbished 764ERs...there will be 14 frames for deployment next summer (up from 8 this past summer) and some of this summer's 764ER routes will be operated by 763ERs next summer.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 38):


Ain't going to happen...still too few 777s to 'waste' on CDG and LHR. As we've discussed on here before, we won't be seeing any DL 777s in Continental Europe...they will all be needed for Asia/Africa/Middle East.

LHR will most likely get the refurbished 764ERs...there will be 14 frames for deployment next summer (up from 8 this past summer) and some of this summer's 764ER routes will be operated by 763ERs next summer.

the only way there will b a 777(a DL T7 that is) in LHR or CDG iis if A) its a spare or B) DL orders alot of T7s or C) DL order 773ERs and have alot of them

Panamair hit the nail on the head LHR will get a 764 from ATL and JFK
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 39):
the only way there will b a 777(a DL T7 that is) in LHR or CDG iis if A) its a spare or B) DL orders alot of T7s or C) DL order 773ERs and have alot of them

Or D) Delta merges with either AA or UA  Wink , though that is probably even less likely than DL getting 95 777NGs, which in itself, as said, is unrealistic beyond belief.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 40):
Or D) Delta merges with either AA or UA , though that is probably even less likely than DL getting 95 777NGs, which in itself, as said, is unrealistic beyond belief.

true an true
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dl767captain
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:22 am

DL keeps ordering more 777s, any chance we will just see more 777 orders instead of 787s until 787 become available, and would the 777 be an ok 767 replacement giving passengers more room? Boeing could do like the 783, put on some winglets and make it more used for a domestic flight. DL could use the extra space for more room in coach and first class
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting Brilondon (Reply 35):
I really don't see how you can not say that they are not a major player just because they don't have a large fleet of 777's.

Because to many, the age-old adage of "size does matter" still continues....
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
atlantaflyboy
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:26 am

And percieved size matters even more - in all actuality there is not a vast difference in the number of passengers DL carries on their 777's and 764's internationally - 50/218 (777) ; 42/204 (764 transatl) - so a WHOPPING difference of 8 in J and 14 in Y. I prefer the 767 in Y, which is where most of us fly anyways
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 42):
DL keeps ordering more 777s, any chance we will just see more 777 orders instead of 787s until 787 become available, and would the 777 be an ok 767 replacement giving passengers more room? Boeing could do like the 783, put on some winglets and make it more used for a domestic flight. DL could use the extra space for more room in coach and first class

yea and then they will order the A350 to repace the old T7s
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da man
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 45):
yea and then they will order the A350 to repace the old T7s

Let's not turn this thread into an Airbus versus Boeing thread, please?
War Eagle!
 
bok269
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:03 am

Congrats to Boeing and DL. Can't wait for the 787 order.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
8 frames,

Delta bought engines too. it's a aircraft, not just a "frame"

From the press release

" Fleet - During the September 2007 quarter, Delta exercised options for two additional Boeing 777-LR aircraft for delivery in 2009. This brings the company’s total firm orders for Boeing 777 aircraft to eight, "


They didn't say "Engines will be purchased seperately at a later date". Yes, you can finance engines seperately and it happens, but the airline is ordering an aircraft not just the frame.

No lender will finance a "frame" without the aircraft being in an airworthy condition as a covenant to the financial instruments executed for the loan or lease, without engines (subrogated into the agreement) no sale will take place, since the aircraft will not be airworthy.

Let's only use "frame" to refer to a part of an aircraft not the entire thing.

[Edited 2007-09-13 03:19:06]
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gigneil
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RE: Another 2 772LRs For Delta

Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 48):
Let's only use "frame" to refer to a part of an aircraft not the entire thing.

No.

NS

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