desertjets
Posts: 7586
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

America West's Columbus Operations

Fri Aug 18, 2000 12:03 pm

I was wondering if anyone out there who is in the know has any idea about the current status and future of America West's CMH hub. I remember it was set up in 1992 as a mini-hub while they were still in Ch.13 and was used as a connecting point to some places on the east coast and into Florida. Since then non-stops to Florida have been added from PHX and LAS, as well as significantly more service to the east coast. The only remaining mainline flights at CMH are from the hubs, LAX, DCA, EWR, and BOS. Everything else is flown by Mesa-Air CRJ's, even the service to Midway airport. So does anyone know why this change was done or what HP plans on doing???
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
Cody
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Fri Aug 18, 2000 12:42 pm

They are ending service from CMH to LAX. I feel HP's days at CMH are limited. I do hate to say it but I truly believe it. Especially with the new DCA slots awarded to America West. There just isn't a need for the CMH hub anymore.
 
johnboy
Posts: 2561
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Fri Aug 18, 2000 12:59 pm

How are those CRJ flights doing from CMH? It's almost like a separate air operation there. Makes me think of Comair's route system having hubs in both MCO and CVG, and little linkage with one another (at least in the earlier days). If those flights are doing well from CMH, then bully for Columbus, but I can't imagine much connecting traffic via CMH.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7586
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Fri Aug 18, 2000 2:15 pm

I think many of those routes from CMH are doing really well with the CRJ, since most of the service there is now with RJ's. I do remember somebody saying that CMH is becoming more and more O&D. The only city only served from CMH that is not served from PHX or LAS is New York-LaGuardia, I believe there is still a LAS-MDW flight. It all does make sense though... it frees up mainline jets for the successful operations out of Phoenix and Las Vegas. But you gotta wonder how HP is going to secure its east coast presence w/o some sort of a hub operation out there, even though the numerous transcons help.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2179
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Fri Aug 18, 2000 9:23 pm

Anyone know how the new Hartford route is working out? It's both CRJ and A319.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
Cody
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Fri Aug 18, 2000 10:33 pm

I just can't imagine HP is trying to secure an east coast operation......meaning routes along the eastern seaboard connecting through CMH. There is way too much competition and it seems the aircraft they have dedicated to CMH could make more money out west.
 
johnboy
Posts: 2561
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Sat Aug 19, 2000 12:00 am

I'd have to agree with the above post by Cody re East Coast ops. I'm curious what the long-term game plan is for HP. Are they ultimately looking for a suitor who will wisk them away from their troubles? Or are they genuinely trying to make a go of it on their own? In any case, please give the FAs new uniforms. Please.
 
Guest

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:54 am

Hey Johnboy, what's wrong with our FA's uniforms? They look very professional. LOL

Anyways, we're going to be fine on our own. We don't need, nor shall anybody, wisk us away to solve all of our problems.

CMH is doing fine the way it is, for now. We really don't even need CMH, but it's just there to say we have a hub out east. CMH is like the step child in the America West family compared to PHX and LAS, which is OK because PHX and LAS should be built up to their full capacity before messing with CMH.
 
papatango
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Sat Aug 19, 2000 4:26 am

awa320 how many psgrs does hp board at cmh and what do their competitors delta and usair board
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2155
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Tue Aug 22, 2000 12:19 pm

First off, I would have to agree that Columbus is not an essential part of America West's current route system. However, I don't believe it's the "step-child" of their system either.
America West's Columbus hub was a good idea at first. It served as an eastern connection city to feed passengers from their West Coast operations to cities along the East Coast and Florida. However, as previously stated, America West added flights from their main hubs in Phoenix and Las Vegas to the East Coast and Florida, bypassing Columbus. Consequently, passenger loads dropped. Another factor was the loss of America West Express. They served a dozen Midwest and Eastern U.S. cities from Columbus with Beech 1900 aircraft. They claimed that they were loosing money, and discontinued all operations. This move eliminated all the feeder traffic from CMH. America West therefore began to slowly trim Columbus operations. First by discontinuing all Florida service from Columbus, and then slowly implementing Mesa CRJ's on select East Coast routes and Chicago.
America West's current status in CMH is this: 43 daily nonstop flights to 11 cities. America West's Columbus to Los Angeles WILL return early next year, and will be upgraded from an A319 to an A320. America West only runs Airbus A320 and A319, and CRJ aircraft into Columbus.
Though this may seem very pathetic for an airline hub, it makes money. The implementation of Mesa aircraft on certain routes was a much better alternative than discontinuing routes altogether. I do believe, however, that America West made some unwise decisions concerning their CMH hub as well.
They never should have discontinued all Florida routes. This was an imprudent move, as it freed up America West's main Florida competitors, Delta Express and Southwest, to quickly snatch up the routes. America West did three things wrong: they did not match fares with competing airlines, they did not offer that flights at a popular time, and they operated aircraft that were too large for the routes. Delta Express and Southwest began flights to both Orlando and Tampa, slowly destroying America West in those markets. America West offered flights to Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and other Florida cities in the Winter, hoping to catch travelers headed south during the winter. However, Florida is just as popular, or even more so, during the summer from Columbus. Also, America West offered 737-300 and A320 service to these cities. Now, American Eagle has taken over the Miami route with 2 seasonal ERJ-145 flights, Delta Express has taken over Ft. Lauderdale and Ft. Meyers service and is now operating these flights in the summer, and both Southwest and Delta Express have increased flights to Orlando and Tampa. America West has only recently realized their mistake and has reinstated seasonal Ft. Meyers service.
I don't think increasing flights from PHX and LAS was a mistake, but it did draw a lot of connecting traffic from CMH. To make up for this, they should have implemented CRJ service to several mid-sized cities from CMH, such as Providence, Manchester, Norfolk, and Richmond.
Lastly, I don't think America West will abandon Columbus altogether. They have invested too much in the city to attempt such a measure. They have not shown any signs of permanently discontinuing all service from CMH. America West still remains an active player in the Columbus community. The are the official airline of the Columbus Crew MLS team, the Columbus Zoo, and COSI (Center Of Science and Industry) Columbus. They have also increased service to Chicago Midway, and implemented new routes to Hartford and Chicago O'Hare. I do not see America West implementing a huge amount of growth in CMH either. As stated earlier, there is too much competition in the East Coast. However, I do believe that if done correctly and passed in a slow manner, they can build Columbus into a modest hub.
712,722,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,744,752/3,762/3,772/3,788,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,346,380,D93,M88,M11,F100,B11,L10,146,CR1/2/7/9,E35/40/45/70/75/90,E20,SF3,ATR,AT7,J41,DH1/3/4
 
desertjets
Posts: 7586
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:12 pm

Thanks for the really informative post. I prefer to look at Colombus as the bastard child, not the evil step-child. Well the analogy is the same really. I would expect to see more CRJ service from CMH to a few more eastern and midwest cities. Some of those smaller towns that are courting more airline service have to be approaching HP on this. Plus you would think they would, in addition to reinstating the CMH-LAX flight open up a few more non-stops to Cali... maybe SFO and SAN. Probably good O&D traffic plus with good connections from the CRJ service it could be a good alternate to Phoenix or Vegas.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
airfun
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2000 7:34 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:38 pm

I spoke to my friend who works in Human Resorces at AWA and she said that they will not be asking any of their new F/A's to relocate to Columbus in the near future if ever. AWA is scaling back operations significantly at Columbus. I also like their uniforms also!

Thankyou
Airfun
 
Sebastian
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:47 pm

LOL! I loved the F/A uniform pun by johnboy..
I think the flight attendants' uniforms are lovely...except the ones that wear that dread awful tie.
What he heck is that anyway? It looks as if someone puked in paislies? LOL...sorry...If I'm not mistaken the CSR's wear the same ties and whatever those neck things are the girls wear.
 
sn330
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:01 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Wed Aug 23, 2000 6:43 am

Actually Columbus is a perfect location for a hub, being in the area of CVG and CLE, two well established hub cities. Besides Columbus actually has the largest population of any city in Ohio, why do you think the NHL awarded a team to them instead of Cleveland or Cincy.
 
Guest

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Wed Aug 23, 2000 10:30 am

CMH could be made into a real money maker if HP concentrated on what they do best--Western operations.

As it stands now, it isn't a true hub. They need to have nonstop routings to the west that draw passengers thru such as CMH-SEA, SFO, ELP, ABQ, MCI, ICT, SLC, PDX, OAK, IND, STL, etc. I'd rather fly BDL-CMH-SEA than BDL-PHX-SEA.

It's hard enough to get to the West Coast from smaller East Coast cities like RIC. They could make a killing!

PHX is very congested; there may be a time when they must turn to CMH as the best expansion option.
 
johnboy
Posts: 2561
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: America West's Columbus Operations

Wed Aug 23, 2000 1:17 pm

Sorry mates, I didn't mean to start a uniform war here! I just think the uniforms haven't aged well at all. The stripes just don't work well for me. Don't ask me why. Plus there are too many variations, e.g. my choice for all-time worst: the shorts with the vest and the striped shirt. I recently took a flight to PHX from SMF on a Surf-n-Go fare, and I was impressed by the professionals at HP. Good service, nice people. Just crappy management from what others say. I used to live in PHX, and always rooted for HP to make it.

But....sorry to say, I usually fly WN for their FF program, mainly, and their point-to-point network.

I was hoping that FlyCMH would chime in soon on the topic of HP at CMH. He is passionate about Columbus' place in the aviation world, and is both knowledgable and eloquent in his defenses.

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