iwannagothere
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AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:22 am

Would AA consider adding another hub? They seem to continue international and domestic growth at JFK, but since the close of BOS, RDU, BNA, and the large downsizing of STL, AA really hasnt added any new hubs. Will it stay this way?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:24 am

American already has enough hubs and focus city that they do not need to add anymore..

HUBS: MIA, ORD, DFW, STL, SJU
Focus: LAX, BOS, DFW, LGA, JFK

I think they have everything WELL covered..
Aiming High and going far..
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:28 am

Highly unlikely they would open a new hub as ERJ170 points out. Besides where would they get the planes to operate it without cutting elsewhere? They've got the map well covered, unless that long rumored Bozeman hub goes through  biggrin 
 
iwannagothere
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:30 am

How can they support SJU and MIA. They are so close. Why not just route all carribean flights through MIA? What about a west coast hub. I guess there are just no available cities left. Does AA regret never really investing in a west coast up besides their minor stint in Reno? THey could've really grown at LAX, why was there never a push there?
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
How can they support SJU and MIA.

SJU has a high percentage of AT7 flights to small Caribbean island destinations that could not support a daily service from MIA. SJU was actually a hub before MIA. While some of the major islands are accessible from MIA, the smaller ones go through SJU and this has been working out quite well for many years. Also, SJU doesn't have the services to Central and South America as does MIA. MIA can also support much more domestic feed from US cities for it's international services. SJU would not do nearly was well. Close perhaps but totally different markets.
 
COERJ145
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:41 am

Skymaster beat me to the post.

[Edited 2007-09-14 04:43:36]
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
What about a west coast hub. I guess there are just no available cities left. Does AA regret never really investing in a west coast up besides their minor stint in Reno? THey could've really grown at LAX, why was there never a push there?

Everytime American gets a Western hub, be it Reno or San Jose, they shut it down. American only has themselves to blame for not having a hub out West. After Air Cal and Reno Air, American gave up its attempts at running a West coast hub, and it concentrates most of its West Coast flights out of Los Angeles and to a lesser extent San Francisco.

American's push at LAX is being outdone by Delta's, though American remains a strong number two carrier at LAX.

For now American relies on Alaska Airlines for its West coast connections.

Beyond the West coast you won't see American add any kind of hub. Boston will continue to slowly lose frequencies, which is a shame considering they're (finally) giving their terminal a face lift. Raleigh/Durham will remain in purgatory, mainline and eagle won't come close to 100 daily flights, let alone hang around 75 once their routes competing with ExpressJet are pulled.

Look for more growth at ORD, DFW, MIA and JFK.

Miami and San Juan serve different markets. Miami is a business center on its own, and connects mainland passengers to Latin America and the Caribbean, while San Juan is a Caribbean hub, catering to O/D, Caribbean connections a few connection to the mainland, with nowhere near the business traffic that Miami sees.
 
iwannagothere
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:51 am

What was the rumor of AA at Bozeman? Could that succede? Its kind of a cool idea.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 6):
American's push at LAX is being outdone by Delta's,

In what way, AA has DL beat in every market from LAX except LAX-CVG, SLC and ATL. And that's only because AA is not in those markets from LAX.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 6):
American's push at LAX is being outdone by Delta's,

In what way, AA has DL beat in every market from LAX except LAX-CVG, SLC and ATL. And that's only because AA is not in those markets from LAX.

 checkmark .....DL doesn't even come close to AA in terms of flights/pax out of LAX.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:19 pm

ERJ...DFW is certainly big enough to be called both a hub and a focus city, but somehow I think that AA would prefer it just be called a hub.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:28 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
In what way, AA has DL beat in every market from LAX except LAX-CVG, SLC and ATL. And that's only because AA is not in those markets from LAX.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
  .....DL doesn't even come close to AA in terms of flights/pax out of LAX.....

I don't remember writing anywhere that Delta was bigger than American. American isn't expanding, Delta is, therefore American's expansion (non really to speak of beyond new flights to XNA and SAT) has been outdone by Delta's.

Even after all the expansion is spoken for this year, American will be at 50-75% bigger than Delta in terms of passengers.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 11):
I don't remember writing anywhere that Delta was bigger than American. American isn't expanding, Delta is, therefore American's expansion (non really to speak of beyond new flights to XNA and SAT) has been outdone by Delta's.

Even after all the expansion is spoken for this year, American will be at 50-75% bigger than Delta in terms of passengers.

DL's "expansion" of LAX is a joke, I believe they are all XE's RJs that were no longer being used once CO decided to jettison them. XE needed a place to put them and I believe are assuming all risks (and probably losses) for these LAX flights. DL is not expanding LAX so much as letting XE lose money for them.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 12):
DL is not expanding LAX so much as letting XE lose money for them.

Expansion is expansion, and it isn't all ExpressJet. Delta has launched plenty of new mainline routes. As a traveler, I don't care whether it is ExpressJet, Skywest, ASA or Delta, as long as the Delta name is on the ticket.

American has been standing by the wayside, as they have neither the aircraft nor the terminal space to compete with Delta.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 12):
I believe they are all XE's RJs that were no longer being used once CO decided to jettison them

Correct.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 12):
DL's "expansion" of LAX is a joke

Metal on the ground is hardly a joke. Though they certainly won't beat Southwest's numbers to reach number 3 at LAX, nor will they beat American or United's seat offerings, they are making good use of available aircraft and terminal space flying point to point services that can, and probably will, be part of a feeder network from more international flights.

This is going on as American twiddles its thumbs and considers what it will have to do when and where they will move Eagle when the commuter terminal is torn down.

Also, American's gate situation is exacerbated when it loses 2 gates early in the morning and again in the evening as Qantas uses Terminal 4 for its Sydney flight.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 12):
XE needed a place to put them and I believe are assuming all risks (and probably losses) for these LAX flights. DL is not expanding LAX so much as letting XE lose money for them.

No... 10 of the 18 planes are contract just like ASA's were... the remaining 8 are on a shared expense at-risk effort... so slightly more than half the XE Delta Connection aircraft are guaranteed revenue... rumor has it that they are doing very well with the exception of poor Tijuana which I guess is now pulled...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 14):
rumor has it that they are doing very well with the exception of poor Tijuana which I guess is now pulled...

No, they aren't. Results are pretty mixed. A lot of the Mexican routes aren't doing that hot, and it isn't easy competing with AS and UA on some of the west coast routes at fares that are favourable for XE/DL.

[Edited 2007-09-14 05:58:13]
a.
 
SESGDL
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
In what way, AA has DL beat in every market from LAX except LAX-CVG, SLC and ATL. And that's only because AA is not in those markets from LAX.

DL has AA beat in quite a few markets from LAX: SEA, PDX, YVR, GEG, BOI, RNO, ICT, MSY, MCO, SLC, JAX, CVG, ATL, RDU, BDL, ANC and a number of other cities which I can't remember. The LA market is a lot more than just flights to SFO, DFW, ORD, JFK, IAD, BOS, and MIA. And it's not only because AA isn't in those markets that DL is successful. This little idea that DL has no market penetration anywhere compared to AA is ridiculous. DL has a great presence at LAX which is only continuing to grow.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):

checkmark .....DL doesn't even come close to AA in terms of flights/pax out of LAX.....

Strangely he never said that. Look at the stats again and you'll realize that AA and affiliates offer just under 20 more daily flights from LAX than DL, and DL serves many more destinations than AA.

Jeremy
 
HPAEAA
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:17 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
Strangely he never said that. Look at the stats again and you'll realize that AA and affiliates offer just under 20 more daily flights from LAX than DL, and DL serves many more destinations than AA.



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
DL has AA beat in quite a few markets from LAX: SEA, PDX, YVR, GEG, BOI, RNO, ICT, MSY, MCO, SLC, JAX, CVG, ATL, RDU, BDL, ANC and a number of other cities which I can't remember. The LA market is a lot more than just flights to SFO, DFW, ORD, JFK, IAD, BOS, and MIA. And it's not only because AA isn't in those markets that DL is successful. This little idea that DL has no market penetration anywhere compared to AA is ridiculous. DL has a great presence at LAX which is only continuing to grow.

Most of these markets are new... I doubt there making money right out of the gate... give it a year, we'll see how many still exhist... AA, DL, UA, US, who ever.. no airline is that good..
Why do I fly???
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
Look at the stats again and you'll realize that AA and affiliates offer just under 20 more daily flights from LAX than DL, and DL serves many more destinations than A

Yes, but American flies bigger jets on most of its routes, and still crushes Delta in terms of capacity.

It'll be interesting where Delta stands vis a vis American in two years when they run out of space to grow, or if they even keep growing.
 
TSS
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 2):
They've got the map well covered, unless that long rumored Bozeman hub goes through Big grin

Yes, that gateway to the vast untapped O&D markets of Billings, Great Falls, and Missoula.  Wink

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
Does AA regret never really investing in a west coast up besides their minor stint in Reno?

I can only assume AA bought Reno Air to eliminate competition, not to build up a prospective West coast hub in Northern Nevada.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 6):
Everytime American gets a Western hub, be it Reno or San Jose, they shut it down. American only has themselves to blame for not having a hub out West.

Re RNO: In my limited scope, two non-parallel runways and 23 gates on two short concourses doesn't seem like anywhere near enough capacity for anything approaching a hub, especially if it's expected to serve a large portion of the West coast. AA would have had to add a bare minimum of a dedicated concourse and one more full-length runway to RNO to make it even halfway serviceable as a hub.

Although for purely selfish reasons I'd dearly love for either or both to happen, AA turning RNO into a serious hub for the West coast would make about as much fiscal sense as AA turning BHM into a serious hub for the East coast.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
commavia
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:52 pm

Quoting Iwannagothere (Thread starter):
Would AA consider adding another hub?

It's impossible to say. It's easy right now, looking at the U.S. domestic market as it stands at the moment, to say, "no - absolutely not." But, of course, if a major U.S. legacy competitor were to go out of business, or get bought out, etc., who knows? The landscape could easily change in a split second. There are many places in the U.S. that I could conceivably see AA going after aggressively if the market dynamics in those places were to change substantially (with LGA and DCA at the top of the list).

Quoting Iwannagothere (Thread starter):
They seem to continue international and domestic growth at JFK, but since the close of BOS, RDU, BNA, and the large downsizing of STL, AA really hasnt added any new hubs. Will it stay this way?

JFK is growing because AA has a huge presence in the New York area, and one of the largest concentrations of FFs and corporate customers in that region of any in their network, and because they are now fighting on the defensive against a resurgent DL adding flights left and right and CO still growing at their massive hub across town at EWR.

As for BOS - as with out West, there is no point in fighting a losing game: JetBlue keeps driving AA out of more and more markets there, to say nothing of other competitors who are much more committed to fighting it out up there. RDU and BNA are both still important markets in AA's network, with large concentrations of FFs, and RDU still acts as a "base" if not a "hub" with dozens of Eagle flights daily to important northeast business markets like LGA, DCA, BOS, etc.

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
How can they support SJU and MIA. They are so close.

They serve two completely different markets. MIA is the higher-yielding, O&D-centric hub that offers connections to some premium travelers from around the U.S. heading to most of the Caribbean's major markets. SJU is the hub for diverting lower-yielding connecting traffic to the islands, supplemented by higher-yielding VFR traffic going to some of the smaller islands that can't support MIA flights (DOM, PTP, FDF, etc.). Then still, after those two, you have the JFK-Caribbean flights (SJU, PAP, SDQ, STI, etc.), which overfly both SJU and MIA, and are almost 100% VFR traffic with some mix of primarily high-yield O&D (and some connections from BOS and Canada) leisure travelers.

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
Why not just route all carribean flights through MIA?

As others said, some markets in the Caribbean couldn't support multiple flights per week to Miami, outside of maybe a Saturday-only 737, and still more, are actually so small that their airports literally cannot handle anything larger than a turboprop to SJU or another neighboring island.

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
What about a west coast hub. I guess there are just no available cities left.

The only two cities that could ever have served a viable hub for AA have both been tried: SJC and LAX. SJC is now basically a shadow of its former self, and AA will never be anything really big there again: they've given up just about all of their gates and facilities there. As for LAX, long-term, AA could still expand here, but they would have to sort out a very severe gate shortage problem if they were ever to expand in a major way, as their gates at T4 are nearly maxed-out - very well utilized, but maxed-out.

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
Does AA regret never really investing in a west coast up besides their minor stint in Reno? THey could've really grown at LAX, why was there never a push there?

It's not that they never invested in the West. Back around 2000, AA was adding flights left and right out west. They had tons of MD80s every day from LAX to SFO, SJC, RNO, LAS, PHX, COS, plus ERJs were being added to markets like SMF, OAK, etc. The problem, though, was that AA could never profitably compete in these markets on price because the price-setter always was, and still is, Southwest.

As for LAX: it's not like AA didn't try. Again, back around 2000, AA was growing so fast at LAX and had flights to cities all up and down the west coast. (That was also back in the days when AA had the split T3/T4 operation at LAX.) After 9/11, though, they made the decision to pull out of these markets where they would never make anything more than a tiny profit, if any profit at all, and concentrate on their core strength. Plus, once the AS/QX codeshare came along, AA now has a huge presence out West without any of the cost.

Quoting TSS (Reply 19):
I can only assume AA bought Reno Air to eliminate competition, not to build up a prospective West coast hub in Northern Nevada.

I disagree with that. First, I doubt it was much about "eliminating competition," as AA and QQ hardly competed at all - they had virtually no route overlap because, up until the 1999 acquisition, and after the drawndown of the former-Air Cal SJC hub in 1993-1994, AA really had virtually no intra-West Coast flying outside of Eagle's SAAB hub at LAX which, at one time, did include 1-2 daily flights to SFO. Beyond that, I think the real reason AA bought QQ was genuinely because they wanted to grow their presence in the West. The mistake AA made in their calculus, however, was assuming the market would respond differently than it did. AA never factored in that AA's costs were way, way above QQ's, and they assumed that they would make up for the cost difference by generating higher unit revenues on the intra-West flights because they would attract higher-yielding customers with their global scope, AAdvantage, etc. The problem with that thinking was, of course, that the West Coast markets - before and after the QQ acquisition - continued to be dominated by the same factors that had dominated it historically: price, price and price. The West Coast markets are incredibly competitive, incredibly low-yielding, and the price is basically set by Southwest. In that type of an environment, no airline with the costs of a mainline legacy carrier (especially 1999-2000) would ever be able to compete.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 20):
Plus, once the AS/QX codeshare came along, AA now has a huge presence out West without any of the cost.

 checkmark ...I quite often purchase an AA ticket and fly maybe part of my journey on AS, in fact, I'll be doing that next week.... yes 

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 6):

American's push at LAX is being outdone by Delta's, though American remains a strong number two carrier at LAX.



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):

checkmark .....DL doesn't even come close to AA in terms of flights/pax out of LAX.....

Strangely he never said that.

...maybe I was imbued by STT757...I'll just blame it on him instead.. stirthepot  gnasher 

Quoting Commavia (Reply 20):
SJC is now basically a shadow of its former self, and AA will never be anything really big there again: they've given up just about all of their gates and facilities there.

....SJC is basically a shadow of its former self. I was speaking with one of the board members of the SJC Airport Committee and he was telling many jobs of the ".dot bomb" hey-day haven't returned (a bit obvious)-thus carriers such as AA aren't willing to expand at all..However, he was optimistic that once the new terminal is built and Silicon Valley stabilizes more (in terms of jobs) then we can see AA possibly "expand" again....there was also an interview with AA management stating they "always keep an eye" at AA.....that being said, I don't expect anything to happen anytime soon.. no 

I miss they days of AA's MASSIVE B772ER flying over my house to NRT.. crying  hissyfit 
"Up the Irons!"
 
commavia
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:13 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
...I quite often purchase an AA ticket and fly maybe part of my journey on AS, in fact, I'll be doing that next week.... yes

And there are thousands more like you, and thousands further still who never even buy the AA ticket, but just travel on AS/QX, but get AAdvantage miles (elite-qualifying, at that) for their flights. That is a huge benefit to both companies.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
....SJC is basically a shadow of its former self. I was speaking with one of the board members of the SJC Airport Committee and he was telling many jobs of the ".dot bomb" hey-day haven't returned (a bit obvious)-thus carriers such as AA aren't willing to expand at all..However, he was optimistic that once the new terminal is built and Silicon Valley stabilizes more (in terms of jobs) then we can see AA possibly "expand" again....there was also an interview with AA management stating they "always keep an eye" at AA.....that being said, I don't expect anything to happen anytime soon..

I really don't see AA doing much expansion ever again at SJC. They have basically no gates now, and even if they did when the new terminal is built, there is just no market anymore. The most I could possibly see would perhaps be adding another flight or two back to ORD (from its pathetic present level of 2x MD80s), maybe another flight or two to DFW, and maybe a 757 to JFK and maybe - longshot - BOS or MIA years down the road. Beyond that, and maybe - just maybe - upgrading one or two of the ERJs to LAX to MD80s in a few years, I just don't see anything else coming.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
I miss they days of AA's MASSIVE B772ER flying over my house to NRT.

AA growth or no AA growth at SJC, I think the return of the NRT flight is all but certain to never occur. (Sadly.) It was a nice flight - I flew on it several times on the way to Asia - good FAs, and just about the right length for a flight to NRT.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
How can they support SJU and MIA. They are so close

MIA and SJU are about the same mileage away from each other as say NY and ORD, and ORD STL. The system does work..SJU although be it pretty small HUB, is organized well. Those ATR's always seem full, atleast to STT, SDQ and BGI..when I did them. 266 people feeding that airport on nearly every flight on an A300 from the mainland supports it very very well. As far as LAX, they need more space, that terminal is like 1000 lbs of you know what stuffed into a 500lb bag. Although be it the nicest looking terminal...a lot better then its pre-1999 state.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:30 pm

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 23):
Although be it the nicest looking terminal...a lot better then its pre-1999 state.

Exactly. It's the nicest and most recently renovated terminal at LAX, but it is definitely reaching its limit. If you're there in the morning rush (0600-0800) or, believe it or not, the evening/redeye rush (2100-2300), the place is completely packed - especially when those two QANTAS 747s are sitting there boarding 400+ people to Australia.
 
boswashsprstar
Posts: 190
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 13):
Also, American's gate situation is exacerbated when it loses 2 gates early in the morning and again in the evening as Qantas uses Terminal 4 for its Sydney flight.

I think AA more than makes up for the loss of gates with the revenue its gets from that deal. AA does a huge amount of feed for these flights, and many Americans buy AA tickets with a codeshare on the QF flights, which I believe gets AA a cut of QF's lucrative pricing on that low-competition route. Business traffic and pricing on those QF flights is also very strong (though UA's new J product may start to challenge that), which gives AA the chance to fill some domestic feeder seats in paid F that might have otherwise gone to free upgrades.

On top of all that, AA gets to share costs of the T4 Admirals Club (officially an "Admirals Club/Qantas Club") with QF, and presumably takes fees for the use of the gate as well.

All in all, even if AA might like to add a few additional services here or there from LAX, it's unlikely they could generate that much profit by squeezing in a few more domestic 738/Super 80/757 flights per day.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:29 pm

Quoting BosWashSprStar (Reply 25):
I think AA more than makes up for the loss of gates with the revenue its gets from that deal.

Absolutely. As you mentioned, the incremental revenue from the QF codeshares alone is massive - in the tens of millions annually, the last I heard. Plus, beyond that, they get paid for the sublease of the facilities, have the contract to operate the flights (i.e., it's AA people above- and below-wing that handle the QF 747s at T4) and, on top of that, they get to have QF pay for a big part of the LAX AC, which is great because it has really raised the standards of the club, and be instrumental in keeping the Flagship Lounge open there.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1500
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 7):
What was the rumor of AA at Bozeman? Could that succede? Its kind of a cool idea.

I'm not sure what the rumor was as I have never heard of it before, but no it could not succede. No Montana city has enough O&D to even consider being a hub for a major airline. When you consider that the population of the entire state is not even 1 million, and no metropolitain area is any bigger than ~150,000 (Billings metro area). Not to mention that none of the airports in Montana have the terminal space for it (Not that they couldn't expand).
Good goes around!
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 6):
American's push at LAX is being outdone by Delta's, though American remains a strong number two carrier at LAX.

DL is "supposedly" looking to rebuild LAX into a hub as they get more aircraft capable of doing trans-Pacific runs. Whether it actually happens is another story, but in numerous other threads this is discussed. A friend of mine who works for them here in BNA confirms they have it in their long term plans, so we'll see.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 6):
For now American relies on Alaska Airlines for its West coast connections.

Just DON'T let them buy AS and screw up another good airline.

Quoting TSS (Reply 19):
I can only assume AA bought Reno Air to eliminate competition, not to build up a prospective West coast hub in Northern Nevada.

This pretty well sums it up. Reno was of no value to them otherwise. They were rather pesky and growing at SJC. Of course all AA really wanted was those M87's and M90's!  sarcastic 
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Hubs

Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):

I really don't see AA doing much expansion ever again at SJC.

....as Michael Jordan once said..."never say never"..... Wink

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
The most I could possibly see would perhaps be adding another flight or two back to ORD (from its pathetic present level of 2x MD80s),

.....depends on what their plans would be down the line.....AA until a few years ago had 5x/daily SJC-ORD..including a redeye flight...however it seems the market prefers to fly on WN lately....can't blame AA for that.. no ...maybe they need to adjust their cost structure..... yes 

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):

AA growth or no AA growth at SJC, I think the return of the NRT flight is all but certain to never occur. (Sadly.) It was a nice flight - I flew on it several times on the way to Asia - good FAs, and just about the right length for a flight to NRT.

....a lot will depend on how the market unfolds the next 5 years....the B787 would be the perfect plane for this route (as well as routes such as ORD-NGO, etc)....

...according to MAH4546, though SJC-TPE was losing money, it was on its way to quite possibly being profitable....this would be another route where the B787 would do well....

Again, I'm only speaking "hypothetical situations"...I really don't see anything happening anytime soon....I just hope AA doesn't axe more routes or frequency......
"Up the Irons!"
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11434
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:36 am

It's probably worth noting that AA does offer limited connections over some of its focus cities, especially RDU. It's not a hub in the sense that it doesn't have feeder service or banks (then again, AA doesn't bank), but that doesn't mean that no connections occur there. STL-RDU-JAX, for example, is frequently cheaper than STL-ORD-JAX or STL-JAX.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:39 am

Does AA consider AUS a focus city yet? I know I have heard talks of it becoming one.

AUS-SEA 1x
AUS-SJC 3x
AUS-SNA 1x
AUS-ORD 5x
AUS-DFW 15x
AUS-DAL 8x
AUS-STL 2x

Are they really going to start up AUS-MIA and AUS-JFK again?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4716
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:57 am

About the only city that could become an AA hub is SEA, provided that AA buys AS. The chance of that happening is less than the winner of the ND/UofM game winning the national title. AA has had bad luck with mergers, and the unions would be very unhappy with having to do another seniority intergration.
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 31):
Are they really going to start up AUS-MIA and AUS-JFK again?

A matter of when rather than if, IMO. MIA-AUS has been rumored for awhile, and with MD-80s at JFK, it won't be long before American connects the dots.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 28):
Just DON'T let them buy AS and screw up another good airline.

Amen
 
N200WN
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:48 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 11):
American isn't expanding, Delta is, therefore American's expansion (non really to speak of beyond new flights to XNA and SAT)

I guess I missed something...what's new for SAT?
 
KDCA
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:42 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:23 am

The real question is why do we not see UA trying to initiate any domestic growth in this market.

Clearly the addition of LAX-HKG shows commitment to the market but UA could really get more from its LAX assets. Now it seems likely that aircraft avaialbility is an issue but it would behoove UA to get some A319, E170, and more CRJ700 on some more mid-con markets to LAX to provide more feed to this hub. No other LAX airline has anything llike the gate space that UA has. Particularly the incredibly underutlized T8.

There is no good reason why UA should not be trying to shore up a stronger position in LAX and throughout California.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 3):
How can they support SJU and MIA. They are so close.

Just to compare, MIA to ORD, DFW, JFK, and SJU are approximately the same distance, all over 1000 miles, and no more than 150 miles difference between all of them. I would imagine SJU and MIA have different needs, and distance probably wouldn't be a factor.

-Rampart
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 34):
I guess I missed something...what's new for SAT?

American tried to impress Texan authorities in its bid to keep the Wright Agreement. They added flights to secondary cities in Texas, STL-IAH, additional LAX-AUS and SJC-AUS capacity, DAL-AUS/SAT/MCI/STL, etc...

Most of these services were dropped, but LAX-SAT lasted.
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 27):
I'm not sure what the rumor was as I have never heard of it before, but no it could not succede. No Montana city has enough O&D to even consider being a hub for a major airline. When you consider that the population of the entire state is not even 1 million, and no metropolitain area is any bigger than ~150,000 (Billings metro area). Not to mention that none of the airports in Montana have the terminal space for it (Not that they couldn't expand).

Umm...hello? Did you not see the smiley face at the end of the post about Bozeman? That was a joke. You know, humor?
 
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fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 31):
Does AA consider AUS a focus city yet?

13 Dec.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 31):
AUS-MIA

13 Dec.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 31):
AUS-JFK

13 Dec.

I heard good things about MIA, LAS, JFK, and official word on AUS as a focus city, and bad things about SEA.

Something official should be on the AA website by years end.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 878
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 39):
bad things about SEA.

Something official should be on the AA website by years end.

well it's already been downgraded to seasonal... hopfully that doesn't get completely cut...
Why do I fly???
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 39):

Really? When do we get to hear about the new AUS flights?
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 41):
Quoting FXramper (Reply 39):

Really? When do we get to hear about the new AUS flights?

Read what he says! 13 Dec. 2007.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 41):

Hobo,

I heard the SEA flight is seasonal as of 13 Dec and some more AA news for AUS happens the same date. Up until a week ago I was only hearing JFK and MIA for AUS, but out of no where LAS was mentioned. Anyone else think this flight is possible even with WN using up a lot of the frequencies.
 
commavia
Posts: 9744
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:24 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 43):
I heard the SEA flight is seasonal as of 13 Dec and some more AA news for AUS happens the same date. Up until a week ago I was only hearing JFK and MIA for AUS, but out of no where LAS was mentioned. Anyone else think this flight is possible even with WN using up a lot of the frequencies.

Yeah, the SEA flight definitely is going seasonal - but at least as of now, it is not supposed to be discontinued altogether, but returning on 7 April 2008.

As for the other potential new AUS routes: of course JFK and MIA make complete and total sense. A daily MD80 leaving AUS at say 0600 or thereabouts, and then departing from MIA back leaving MIA at around 1930-2000 would be timed perfectly for MIA connections. As for JFK, a 1130-1200 AUS departure, and 1700-1730 JFK departure back, would make sense.

And about LAS: I have never heard anything about that one until now, and it makes no sense to me at all, as it is very low-yield and competing directly with Southwest. However, that being said, I wouldn't have expected SNA either (an altogether different market, though). And, it may be an attempt by AA to give their huge FF base in AUS a way to burn miles without taking up seats on other flights, and give AA more flexibility with their DFW-LAS flights (as AA probably connects several dozen AUS-LAS pax over DFW on a daily basis).

Should be interesting to see.

I'm still just holding my breath and hoping for AUS-JFK/MIA!
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5478
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:29 am

Well, how about AUS-SJU.. then AUS would be connected to ALL the AA hubs, focus cities, and near-focus cities..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11434
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 45):
Well, how about AUS-SJU..

If ORD can only support 2 daily flights to SJU on AA (there's also a daily UA 320), it would be hard for AUS to support a daily flight. There's also something of an opportunity cost issue; at over 2000 miles, the flight ties up an aircraft all day.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11434
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 45):
Well, how about AUS-SJU..

If ORD can only support 2 daily flights to SJU on AA (there's also a daily UA 320), it would be hard for AUS to support a daily flight. There's also something of an opportunity cost issue; at over 2000 miles, the flight ties up an aircraft all day.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
aa1818
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
HUBS: MIA, ORD, DFW, STL, SJU
Focus: LAX, BOS, DFW, LGA, JFK

I think they have everything WELL covered..

I agree everytrhing is well covered but i would have put STL as a focus and JFK as a psuedo hub but mroe than a focus given their considerable international presence at JFK!!
Just a thought!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11434
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Hubs

Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 48):
I agree everytrhing is well covered but i would have put STL as a focus

STL is a hub.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more