National757
Topic Author
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:05 am

Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:40 pm

Very disappointing to announce the suspension of a route 23 days after the inaugural. This route had potential however given the extended distance, this route needed to have high load factors and a high average fare to remain viable.

Quote:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Sept. 14, 2007

ALLEGIANT AIR ANNOUNCES END OF SERVICE

FROM GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG, S.C. TO LAS VEGAS

(Greer, S.C.)-- Allegiant Air announced today it will end its scheduled service between Greenville-Spartanburg, S.C. and Las Vegas, Nev. The carrier's last day of scheduled service to Las Vegas will be Dec. 3, 2007. Customers with reservations Dec. 7 and beyond will be contacted by Allegiant directly to receive a full refund.
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:06 pm

Oh, this is terrible news!  Sad

I thought this route would be successful, but I guess not this time. Ever think they'll try GSP-LAS again?
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:08 pm

GSP-LAS is quite a stretch for an MD-80, isn't it?
 
delta767
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:55 am

Is this an indication of the GSP market's low response to the new route or the economics of offering this long-range service overall? Hoping to see more LAS-East Coast service soon.
 
National757
Topic Author
Posts: 471
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 1):
Ever think they'll try GSP-LAS again?

Perhaps in a few years they will try this route again if Allegiant obtains a more fuel efficient aircraft type.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
GSP-LAS is quite a stretch for an MD-80, isn't it?

GSP-LAS is (was) currently the longest scheduled MD-80 route in the United States at 1850 Nautical Miles.

Quoting Delta767 (Reply 3):
Is this an indication of the GSP market's low response to the new route or the economics of offering this long-range service overall?

A little of both in my opinion. Allegiant hasn't had much success in longer scheduled routes due in part to the economics of operating fuel guzzling MD-80 aircraft. The GSP market needed to sell lots of tickets at higher fares to cover costs and make the route viable long term..both of which did not happen.
 
steeler83
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting National757 (Reply 4):
The GSP market needed to sell lots of tickets at higher fares to cover costs and make the route viable long term..both of which did not happen.

Sheesh... that is some risk to take! Maybe if they were to order 737NGs this might have worked. Those birds don't burn nearly as much fuel, which would allow them to offer the route at lower, more competitive fares. Don't US and WN offer plenty of LAS-East Coast flying though? Although I am not sure if GSP sees such service...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
toltommy
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Maybe if they were to order 737NGs this might have worked.

The cost of acquiring or the debt service on the new plane would be much more than any fuel savings gained.

They pulled out of TOL-LAS claiming fuel was the driving factor. Why they even considered opening GSP-LAS is beyond me.
 
steeler83
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 6):
They pulled out of TOL-LAS claiming fuel was the driving factor. Why they even considered opening GSP-LAS is beyond me.

Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
stlgph
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???

Funny, isn't it? I remember when I brought this up before Allegiant lovers were wanting to hang me out to dry.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
tcttx
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting National757 (Reply 4):
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
GSP-LAS is quite a stretch for an MD-80, isn't it?

GSP-LAS is (was) currently the longest scheduled MD-80 route in the United States at 1850 Nautical Miles.

In the 80s, AA used to do one r/t IAD-LAX in the MD80.
 
dbo861
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 6):
The cost of acquiring or the debt service on the new plane would be much more than any fuel savings gained.

I wonder how much longer this argument will work when the price of oil is hovering around the $80/barrel range. Also, Allegiant keeps acquiring these older birds and although they're much cheaper than a brand new 737NG..they aren't getting them for free so they still have a debt load. Therefore you can't use the same argument NW uses (whose DC9s are all paid off) as to why it's cheaper to keep the old, gas guzzling, already paid for planes. Also the MD80s are older planes which will require more maintenance. If you keep adding these factors, eventually it will be economical to get newer planes.

Now you guys are probably going to laugh at me for suggesting this, but could Allegiant be a possible launch customer for the C-series (if it ever gets launched)? They could order 30-40 planes, and since they'd be a launch customer, they would get huge discounts on the deal. Although the C-series will seat somewhat fewer passengers than the MD80s, they could easily adjust their schedules to add frequency in order to get similar number of seats on the routes since most of their routes aren't daily. Also, isn't the C-series supposed to be able to do transcon flights??? It's a possibility...
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???



Quoting STLGph (Reply 8):
Funny, isn't it? I remember when I brought this up before Allegiant lovers were wanting to hang me out to dry.

If you remember we ended up concluding that it was not just fuel costs at Toledo, Allegiant dropped TOL-LAS due to the combination of fuel costs and the competitive situation at TOL and Detroit.

"Unfortunately, due to escalating fuel costs and aggressive competitive conditions, we will end our Las Vegas service,"
http://www.toledofreepress.com/?id=2592

I don't know what is going on with GSP. I do know that GSP was the 4th highest fare airport in the country during Q1 2007 so Allegiant may have felt they could get a good fare margin there to cover costs.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
stlgph
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
aggressive competitive conditions

and that's so vague.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
the competitive situation at TOL and Detroit.

that was your conclusion. i still say trying to blame Detroit is hogballs.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 10):
I wonder how much longer this argument will work when the price of oil is hovering around the $80/barrel range. Also, Allegiant keeps acquiring these older birds and although they're much cheaper than a brand new 737NG..they aren't getting them for free so they still have a debt load.

There has been rumors before that Allegiant has been looking at a 2nd aircraft type, to start adding it to the fleet in 2008 or 2009.

I'd have to take a look at the financials again but Allegiant is purchasing aircraft for both cash and financing. They have 8 aircraft coming for the next 8 months, 2 are being purchased debt free and the others financed. I think over the last year they have purchased outright many others in their fleet along with taking others on capital leases.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 12):
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
aggressive competitive conditions

and that's so vague.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
the competitive situation at TOL and Detroit.

that was your conclusion. i still say trying to blame Detroit is hogballs.

LOL Hhhmm, thats funny. You accepted the "competitive conditions" statement when G4resagent provided that quote a few months ago, right?

If we look at Detroit to Vegas currently, fares are only around $250 RT on US and Spirit for a weekend trip in October (F/Su).

TOL is only 50 miles from DTW, which means Allegiant would need to be close to that DTW price to compete for TOL passengers. Passengers might pay a few dollars more for convenience at TOL but leisure travellers are price sensititve and will driveaway if they see enough savings.

For $250 fares Allegiant can use its aircraft on shorter routes at lower cost and make more money.

And remember I never said its just because of competition. Its the ability to get the necessary revenue given the costs. If Allegiant doesn't have pricing power because of nearby competition then they are limited on the ability to increase revenue, especially if costs rise.

At GSP I don't know what has happened, I haven't seen the full press release yet. It could be too few passengers booking the route. I've said for years "use it or lose it" when it comes to Allegiant's routes.

They typically are not afraid to say the reason why they end a city. I've seen them bring up fees, lack of bookings, etc., not just fuel cost or competition. And they are not afraid to walk away if a route doesn't look profitable.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting Tcttx (Reply 9):
In the 80s, AA used to do one r/t IAD-LAX in the MD80.

Are you sure? The longest MD-80 trip I remember from that time frame was BNA-LAX. MAybe an MD80 could make LAX-IAD with the right tailwinds, etc, But I just don't see IAD-LAX as doable unless it went out half full and the tanks filled to the rim.

In the 80's IAD -LAX was a mostly DC-10/ 767 market as I recall.
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting National757 (Reply 4):
GSP-LAS is (was) currently the longest scheduled MD-80 route in the United States at 1850 Nautical Miles.

1850 SM , it's only 1607 NM

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=l...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 8):
Funny, isn't it? I remember when I brought this up before Allegiant lovers were wanting to hang me out to dry.

You're just jealous. Get over yourself.  Wink

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
I don't know what is going on with GSP. I do know that GSP was the 4th highest fare airport in the country during Q1 2007 so Allegiant may have felt they could get a good fare margin there to cover costs.

And where did you get this information?
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
tcttx
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 1999 11:40 am

RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 15):
n the 80's IAD -LAX was a mostly DC-10/ 767 market as I recall.

Sorry to get off topic, but yes AA's IAD-LAX in ths 80s/90s were mostly DC10 & 767, but there were scheduled MD80 flights also, at least as late '90 according to the 4/1/90 AA system timetable:

IAD-LAX
#97 815p 1038p MD80 X6 S

LAX-IAD
#92 1030p 628a# MD80 X6 S
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:30 pm

Was G4 having to leave passengers or bags in GSP? I'd think not, though GSP is decently high, as the runway there is pretty long. But involuntary bumps can rapidly turn a marginal route sour.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
srbmod
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):
There has been rumors before that Allegiant has been looking at a 2nd aircraft type, to start adding it to the fleet in 2008 or 2009.

Start the Airbus/Boeing rumors....  duck 

Considering the fact that some airlines have or in the process of retiring/returning to the lessor, 737 Classics and A320 family a/c of a similar (or slightly older) age of the G4 Mad Dog fleet, I'm sure that there are some deals to be had out there.

Allegiant is running into a situation that really puts them at a crossroads as it were. Limiting yourself to a certain fleet type can potentially stifle expansion plans, especially if those plans stretch the range of the fleet. If you're having to restrict loads due to conditions, it makes it more expensive to operate a route.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:58 am

It looks to me like this route ending is simply a lack of bookings, not the distance or oil prices.

When Allegiant announced GSP-LAS in June they ran a fare sale of $89 one way.

The announcement press release also said "After the introductory fare period, regular one-way fares on the route start as low as $109 one-way."
http://www.allegiantair.com/aaNews20070627a.php

Looking at fares for GSP-LAS today at Allegiant's web site, I see lots of $99 one-ways. They have had to lower fares below what they planned for the regular fare.

Sounds to me like the market didn't develop.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 17):
And where did you get this information?

The DOT Consumer Air Fare Report. We can argue that there are problems with the data or methodology but to me it does provide a decent rough guide on fares at various cities. The rankings start on Page 35 in the Q1 2007 report. It pretty much has the airports I'd expect to see as the most expensive.
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/domfares/web071.pdf
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
g4resagent
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RE: Allegiant Announces End Of GSP-LAS Service

Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
Um ok... They dropped TOL service because of the cost of fuel, then the geniuses then thought that perhaps GSP would somehow magically work... Errrr, what were they thinking???

One could argue the same thing for TYS-LAS... but that is working.