jwb2
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:13 pm

Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:49 pm

Air Canada seems to have everything under their wing at the moment: Domestic, a new fleet arriving, good international links, a new terminal at YYZ and with the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics ahead it lokks like they are in for a pretty good time. I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines: BA!
 
Riptide
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:36 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:14 pm

I am from Canada, and well, the customer service is a little lacking, you have an aging flight attendant pool that have really grown numb to serving customers. I think it takes a real special person to stay in as a flight attendant that long, serving people and still keep a smile on your face but on a general whole mass, it is almost impossible to keep up that initial enthusiam.

Plus most have been screwed over and are divorced from Pilots. AIDS we call it, Aircraft Induced Divorced Syndrome, so a lot of them have a chip on their should too boot LOL.

I started in a young commuter airline, watched all the flight attendants come in google eyed for pilots, watched them mostly marry pilots, not one of the ones I know are still married.

Dont we love the aviation industry!
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
Air Canada seems to have everything under their wing at the moment: Domestic, a new fleet arriving, good international links, a new terminal at YYZ and with the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics ahead it lokks like they are in for a pretty good time. I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines

And despite all that the'll probably lose a ton of money like they always have.
 
BCA2005
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
Air Canada seems to have everything under their wing at the moment: Domestic, a new fleet arriving, good international links, a new terminal at YYZ and with the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics ahead it lokks like they are in for a pretty good time. I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines: BA!

As for BA:
- I would consider their domestic fleet (except for the 757s) to be pretty new
- Definately have good international links, easily better than AC
- Brand new London Heathrow Terminal 5 from March 2008
- London 2012 Olympics - official airline
 
BCALBOY
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines: BA!

What exactly do you mean by that ?

How many times have you flown on BA or Air Canada ?

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 2):
And despite all that the'll probably lose a ton of money like they always have.

Quite .
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):

That is propably right but airlines have different business plans and different focuses.

There are many airlines that can be taken as good example: LH,AF,EK etc etc.  Smile
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines: BA!

I actually think DL stole a page from their business plan even more than they did to CO.

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 2):
And despite all that the'll probably lose a ton of money like they always have.

During their years in BK (2002-2004) that was the case, but you must remember the "good-ole-days" when AC was a federal crown corporation, something Canada's infamous left-wing party, the NDP wishes to return them to, heaven forbid if they ever gain majority power!   

[Edited 2007-09-15 16:20:51]
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
Osprey88
Posts: 268
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:13 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
Air Canada seems to have everything under their wing at the moment: Domestic, a new fleet arriving, good international links, a new terminal at YYZ and with the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics ahead it lokks like they are in for a pretty good time. I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines: BA!

New birds and a solid route network are all well and good, but they are by far not the only matter for an airline. AC is still lacking in the customer service department in my opinion, and only time will tell whether the new AVOD investment will be good for the airline.
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 7):
and only time will tell whether the new AVOD investment will be good for the airline.

Customer feedback about the new AVOD has been extremely positive.

As far as BA, I think one thing they need to work on is luggage handling.

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 4):
Quite .

AC doesn't have the benefit of being involved in price fixing scandals..
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 2):

And despite all that the'll probably lose a ton of money like they always have.

Generally speaking the latest projections from analysts call for a profit of ovrer $1 per share this year. The stock has been upgraded this week by many analysts.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:04 am

Air Canada has faired pretty well when you compare it up against many of the legacy carriers in North America, including profitability. I have flown many of the US Airlines and will pick flying on an AC flight whenever I have the chance. It is no surprize that they win best NA Airline for business travel consistantly across a number of lists. And the Maple Leaf Lounge is far superior to the competition. Sure some of the international competition in Asia and the Middle East have superior service. But give me a break, some of the broad baseless generalizations people make at times really make me laugh (on a good day).
 
LXA340
Posts: 1112
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 10):
It is no surprize that they win best NA Airline for business travel consistantly across a number of lists.

Nou doubt AC is the best airline in North America, however there is no reason to be proud about it and AC executives are aware of it. When comparing them to he major US cariers it's a must for them to get this title but comparing them with major airlines in the rest of the word things look completely different again. There are some things that are great about AC and airlines such as LH, LX, KL, AF or BA could adapt. Such as offering personal IFE across the fleet (Yes AC doesn't offer it on some of it's Jazz planes). Bu then again most flights within europe are on average 1.5 hours or less so it migh be a bit useless to install such systems however it would be a nice feature. Nevertheless service quality is better in europe so you could say, what AC invests for XM'ing all their fleet they save with the quality of service etc. One thing AC really needs to work on is the atitude of their staff both on the gorund and in the air, they need to learn to treat custumers nicely, whihc especially on the ground is not the case.
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 11):
One thing AC really needs to work on is the atitude of their staff both on the gorund and in the air, they need to learn to treat custumers nicely, whihc especially on the ground is not the case.

That's true, and it may not change until AC gets through contract negotiations in 2009. However, most frequent flyers have little interaction with the people on the ground, using web check-in, web booking, web upgrades, etc. I almost never deal with a passenger agent, and on those occasions when I have, usually in checking in a family member with a multi-carrier itinerary, they are most helpful and curtious. There are bad apples, no doubt about that.
 
AY104
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:35 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines: BA!

Well, in spite of the fact that I am Canadian, I am not blindly patriotic. Air Canada still has to improve in a lot of areas. I have flown BA a lot more internationally than AC, for the simple reason they are a lot better in my opinion. BA is still one of my favourite airlines, if I was travelling more now they would still be my choice from YVR. Unfortunately, the situation at LHR also leaves a lot to be desired, so next summer when I go to Finland, I will probably go via AMS or FRA, but that does not change my opinion about BA.
Some of the trip reports I have read lately about AC's international service - in J - also gives me great cause to believe that their service need to improve to remain competitive. The last time I travelled international on AC was in Y across the Atlantic, and that was nothing to brag about.

Cheers,
AY104
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
HanginOut
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 8):
Customer feedback about the new AVOD has been extremely positive.

Let's see how positive that feedback will be once Air Canada starts charging passenger money to use some of the IFE products. My understanding is that they will charge passengers who want to play the latest games and watch the latest movies (although some will be free).
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
beechnut
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 4):
What exactly do you mean by that ?

How many times have you flown on BA or Air Canada ?

I have, many times, and can honestly say...you have good flights and bad flights on either carriers.

Beech
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 8):
As far as BA, I think one thing they need to work on is luggage handling

That is not always their fault. They are based in the 3rd busiest airport in the world in term of passengers. So it is LHRs fault that the luggage disappear.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:28 pm

Well in my opinion Air Canada does offer some nice IFE, a good fleet, and a great route system. But the buy-on-board stuff is rather dissapointing when the competition actually feeds you. Also the customer service could use a lot of work. The problem often isn't the employees themselves, it's the fact that for many of them Air Canada has screwed them over, multiple times. I still believe that one of the key things in keeping customers happy is keeping the employees happy.


CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
columba
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RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:41 pm

How is the future of AC A320 fleet ? I know they were an early customer and some of their A320 must gettimg old. Will they order some new ones before they will decide on 737RSS or A320NG.
I believe to have read that some A319s will be replaced with Emb190/195s ? Would the C-series be an option for AC -if it is finally being launched ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Acey
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:47 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
How is the future of AC A320 fleet ? I know they were an early customer and some of their A320 must gettimg old. Will they order some new ones before they will decide on 737RSS or A320NG.
I believe to have read that some A319s will be replaced with Emb190/195s ? Would the C-series be an option for AC -if it is finally being launched ?

A total of 45 Embraer 190's will be online soon, and they have already replaced several A320's and A319's. Currently, there are no plans for the E195. The next generation 110-160 seat aircraft for AC, like every other carrier, cannot be determined at this stage.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 19):
The next generation 110-160 seat aircraft for AC, like every other carrier, cannot be determined at this stage.

This is true but I was wondering since airlines that operating some of the first A320s like BA and LH recently ordered new ones if AC will consider to buy new ones as well since the next generation is 7-9 years away.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
MeridianBUF
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:56 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
a new terminal at YYZ

It's the most ilogical airport around. The road system leading to it could easily stretch Canada from coast to coast. The inter-terminal train thing is a waste of time and money, it's quicker to walk (if you know which road today) to T3 from T1. The whole thing is a mess since the removal of the old T1.

Not to mention the new T1 is one ugly work of architecture, all grey and dull.

And AC? How is it possible to run a state owned monopoly to bankruptcy? That takes more effort than making money. And ruining Canadian Airlines in the process.

I make a point not to fly AC. Buffalo is the way to go!
 
Acey
Posts: 985
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:18 pm

Quoting MeridianBUF (Reply 21):

Not to mention the new T1 is one ugly work of architecture, all grey and dull.

I wouldn't say so. The majority of people I've spoken to say T1 is a vast improvement over the old, and US customs are greatly improved. I've been through several times, and it's anything but dull.

Quoting Columba (Reply 20):
This is true but I was wondering since airlines that operating some of the first A320s like BA and LH recently ordered new ones if AC will consider to buy new ones as well since the next generation is 7-9 years away.

It's difficult to say at this point. If AC needs more smaller airplanes, they'll probably order more E190's, even though those can't directly replace A320's. Though there have been some problems, the Embraers are settling in nicely with AC...I just don't seem them going back to Airbus for any A320's.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 22):
...I just don't seem them going back to Airbus for any A320's.

Think that the A320 suit AC.

Maybe the A318?????
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
LXA340
Posts: 1112
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 22):
Though there have been some problems, the Embraers are settling in nicely with AC...I just don't seem them going back to Airbus for any A320's.

Some of their A320's are pretty old and for some A319s / A320's leases have expired or are expiring in the near future so there will be a gap, some will be replaced by Embraers but I gues another 5 -10 additional A32S could be possible in case AC will be lacking the capacity of extra aircraft.
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 24):
but I gues another 5 -10 additional A32S could be possible in case AC will be lacking the capacity of extra aircraft.

So would they order or lease new A320 ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
avek00
Posts: 3157
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RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:05 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):

An example in terms of a de facto monopolist having to file for bankruptcy, coming within an inch of liquidation, and being burdened with a heavy debt load for years ro come?

Don't get me wrong - I like AC, and think they're business plan will serve them well, but that's still a far cry from being a model or example for other major global airlines to follow.
Live life to the fullest.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4950
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting Riptide (Reply 1):
I am from Canada, and well, the customer service is a little lacking, you have an aging flight attendant pool that have really grown numb to serving customers.

Urban legend.

More than half of AC's Flight Attendants have less than 5 years service, and massive hiring continues.

Quoting MeridianBUF (Reply 21):
The inter-terminal train thing is a waste of time and money

Its gets one from Terminal One to Terminal Three, then to parking .... what were your expectations?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
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RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 2):
And despite all that the'll probably lose a ton of money like they always have.

You figure JL is awesome airline too but they too are losing tons of money..
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1501
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:22 pm

Yes, I have lived in Canada for six years and I did fly on AC a couple of times.

I have seen significant improvements and I am proud that the airline has been able to do that well. But still, as a lot of people have been saying, they might be the Number 1 airline in North America, but they are still way behind of SQ, CX, NH and the others. And I really wonder but are they that much better than CO? I flew CO a long time ago when they were getting rid of their B747 from People Express, but the crews at that time gave me a wonderful time without any emotions involved. AC crews (I know a minority) gave me a lot of irritating service when AC was under protection.

To me, CO still is the #1 in North America.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
MattRB
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:49 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting MeridianBUF (Reply 21):
And AC? How is it possible to run a state owned monopoly to bankruptcy?

 redflag  Air Canada has been a fully privatized company since 1989.

Quoting MeridianBUF (Reply 21):
And ruining Canadian Airlines in the process.

Welcome to Corporate Darwinism. Only the strong survive. Canadian did itself in by not being able to compete in the industry.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

AC-Ireland//Bye Bye Shannon

Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting Riptide (Reply 1):
I am from Canada, and well, the customer service is a little lacking, you have an aging flight attendant pool that have really grown numb to serving customers. I think it takes a real special person to stay in as a flight attendant that long, serving people and still keep a smile on your face but on a general whole mass, it is almost impossible to keep up that initial enthusiam.

And one can also make the generalization that amongst the younger generation, the work ethic isn't what it used to be (but I won't). Yes I know-- I'm sounding like my father. Increasingly, most of my flights see a balance of the next generation and the one in which I was hired. I am equally committed to safety and service, and in the event of an emergency, who would you rather have on board?? A group of 19 year olds, or a mix of staff who has some experience behind them. I fly with individuals with 30 years experience who have the same exuberence as the day they were hired, and can easily outpace and outrun employees half their age.

[Edited 2007-09-16 21:11:43]
Above and Beyond
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 30):
Canadian did itself in by not being able to compete in the industry.

A little history helps. In the late 1980's,PWA purchased Canadian Pacific and Wardair,it was too much to swallow in an attempt to bulk up and compete against AC. They took a chance,in that they would be able to service the debt from the purchases,needless to say it would have worked in a perfect world. Political and economic events around the world during the 1990's put them in a position where they had to restructure that same debt multiple times to no avail. Once Westjet entered the market in 1996,it pretty well sealed the fate of CP,as it occurred in CP backyard. They were too weak to fight back and AC was hardly in a better financial position. AC and CP fought to the death and for survival. Eventually AC would find itself in the same position by 2003,having to restructure it's debt and adapt to a changing aviation market,ala WS. If AC has shown the airline industry anything,it's how to be the first major legacy airline in the world to change it's business model and survive. The alternative would have been the end of AC. The employees took it on the chin and many have accepted that change was in hindsight,enevitable and needed for the survival of the company.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 32):
If AC has shown the airline industry anything,it's how to be the first major legacy airline in the world to change it's business model and survive. The alternative would have been the end of AC. The employees took it on the chin and many have accepted that change was in hindsight,enevitable and needed for the survival of the company.

Incorrect...Many airlines did this BEFORE AC did...BA, NZ are prime examples.

NZ for instance has changed its ENTIRE network and service. If YOU did abit of history you would see AC is nowhere near the form of what AirNZ was when they were in turmoil and the form they have come out in!

Cheers
 
Acey
Posts: 985
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 24):
Some of their A320's are pretty old

The oldest, if I recall correctly, was acquired in 1994. I would not consider that old, when a certain airline with red tails is flying around ancient DC-9's.  Smile
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 33):
Incorrect...Many airlines did this BEFORE AC did...BA, NZ are prime examples

Not really. I should have been a bit more specific about what changes AC has made since it's restructuring. One way fares throughout North America. Unbundling of the product with these options;no checked baggage,purchase pre-assigned seating,no frequent flyer points. What they essentially did was take a page from the low-cost carrier business model and meld it into a legacy structure. That I assure you is a first globally. The legacy model in it's historical sense is dead in North America. Point in case,most legacy carriers in order to compete with low cost carriers had to accept the notion that,if you can't beat them join them. That's not to say that legacy carriers have become low-cost,rather,it was an evolution to somewhere in the middle.

I don't mind a history lesson myself,how about sharing the story of NZ.
 
beechnut
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 34):
The oldest, if I recall correctly, was acquired in 1994. I would not consider that old, when a certain airline with red tails is flying around ancient DC-9's.

Fin 201, C-FDQQ, MSN 59, was imported into Canada in 1990 according to the Transport Canada Canadian Civil Aircraft Register. That would be 17 years old, give or take a few months.

Beech
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Jwb2 (Thread starter):
I think Air Canada could be a pretty good example to other Airlines

Such as flying people for 6 hours in a sardine can with no food (YUL-SFO among others). Yep, example to follow indeed... I think they are more followers than leaders. PTV in Y just appeared in long-haul, the only innovation being the PTV in all the new fleet and upgrade of existing fleet. But, well, B6 has had it for a while now...
I think AC is evolving from a disgrace to something all right. The trend is an example, yet the level of standard is not impressive.
When I doubt... go running!
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 34):

The oldest, if I recall correctly, was acquired in 1994. I would not consider that old, when a certain airline with red tails is flying around ancient DC-9's

That can not be true, the first AC A320 must be delivered around 1990/91 so they are now 16-17 years old.
With a replacement not be ready before 2015 they will be around 25 years old when they will be retired.
Given your last statement, I want to start a A vs D argument, the A320 is not build by Douglas which is know for its aircraft that last forever, like the almighty Dc 3 and the Diesel 9  Smile
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Air Canada An Example For Other Airlines

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:51 am

All bias aside, and a lot of people recognize that I have a deep knowledge for an outsider of AC, with lots of contacts, I will say this.

1. AC is not a world leader on customer amenities, and while it will pay lip service to the concept of being among the best, it realistically aspires to be what might be described as a low first quartile, high second quartile performer with two classes of service. This is a function of the local market - most Canadian corporate travellers won't pay for First Class, and relatively few airlines flying to Canada offer it. Call us thrifty, but Canadians chafe at the idea of some people enjoying the fruits of success, whether they are politicians, the leaders of publicly traded companies or senior government bureaucrats. Air Canada also sits on the extremity of many global traffic flows. Whereas Europe sits between North America and Africa/The Middle East/South Asia and can hub traffic to those destinations, Canada is sandwiched by the US market. It is a country with a small population, a large landmass, but unlike Australia and New Zealand, so distant from major markets via nonstops, Canada is close enough to major markets like Western Europe so that charters with their 767s and 757s can depress pricing. That means any Canadian legacy carrier will find itself undercut by discounters and charters on popular intercontinental route, and forced to rely on relatively small local markets to try and launch new routes to, say India. So AC, which is also unionized, and handcuffed in several respects by the Canadian government and its high taxes, cannot aspire to be SQ or EK or VS. All it can aspire to be is pretty good, and very good value, but it will never be a super premium carrier.

2. Where AC is innovating is in its fare grid which aims to satisfy both the super cheap customer and people who want more value and service. In North America and in those international markets where it is allowed, AC's fare grid, launched in 2003 is entirely composed of one-way fares, with no minimum stays, and it has embellished this product with add-on pricing - or optional discounts - for things like advance seat selection, waiving the checked baggage allowance or frequent flyer points, pre-purchasing an item from the Buy on Board menu, etc. Also ground-breaking is the breadth of the company's pass products. It's the totality of these measures, with much more to come, that is unique. Also, AC has stood, virtually alone, in forcing the travel agent CRS systems to change their software to accommodate this discretionary buying options, to the extent that as AC has negotiated the right to offer these products on the CRS systems, this has become known as the Air Canada clause and other carriers are insisting on having an Air Canada clause added to their CRS agreements.

3. Air Canada's fleet decisions have been, and continue to be, closely watched as bellweathers that influence other carriers. AC's 320 order helped cement Airbuses success in the 1990s. It's 777 and 787 purchase two years ago was pivotal for Boeing as was its Embraer 190 order for the Brazilian manufacturer. Air Canada is seen as a large carrier, neither American nor European, with a great technical and analytical capability. So its fleet purchases are seen as objective commentary on the price/value of its acquisitions. Don't take my word for it. There is an article out today in which Boeing says as much:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...5a9-4ac2-b424-d24c955009f4&k=95123

By the way, my rough calculation, based on AC's fleet payouts in the second quarter financials, is that the airline negotiated fabulous prices for its new aircraft - an average of perhaps C$140 million per 777 and C$30 million per EMB-190. With the Canadian dollar heading for par, or over par, with the US dollar, those C$ prices will come down even more. But again, this is a rough calculation.

One can argue whether AC's decision to equip its 73-93 seat aircraft with AVOD is unique, and how significant that is given some international carriers don't have large enough domestic networks to both with 93-seat aircraft. One can argue that AC's decision to ban smoking outright - it was probably the first large airline to do so - was significant, because they were moving only slightly ahead of the legislators. One can argue that while AC launched the first ever seat sale, there were other discounts and promotions in the industry. But AC has been, if not always a frontrunner in every way, or a pioneer in every part of its business, an early adopter of new technology and new ideas.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

AC-Ireland//Bye Bye Shannon

Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 37):
Such as flying people for 6 hours in a sardine can with no food (YUL-SFO among others).

Bear in mind this is largely based on competing on a level playing field with other North American carriers. Not SQ,CX,nor EK. It is still a far cry from B.O.B. offered on flights of up to 8 hours such as UA between ORD and HNL. And despite the fact that I personally hate B.O.B., a New York Times survey ranked AC as offering the greatest range of choice compared to other B.O.B. carriers.

AC was the last holdout on the following:

*Meals in all classes right across the system well after US legacy carriers had pulled the plug on them.
(Even a choice of breakfasts on the 38 minute in the air YYZ/YOW run in Y/C). (Irrespective of specified "meal periods").

*Last North American carrier to re-instate bar charges on Domestic flights

*Still offering complementary headsets right across the board.

[Edited 2007-09-17 20:19:40]

[Edited 2007-09-17 20:21:24]
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