BOEING787
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Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:58 pm

According to sources at their Indian GSA - Global Aviation Services, Air Portugal plans nonstop daily or 4 x weekly service LIS-BOM from early 2008. Part of their new expansion plans to Asia. Any truth to these rumors? Can any A.Netters in Portugal confirm this?

If so, what are the types of pax they are targeting and what loads do they anticipate. The India-Europe market is heavily serviced by BA, 9W, LH, LX, AF, AY, AZ, OS, VS, AI, SU, to name a few.
 
N77014
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:09 pm

There are several reasons a smaller carrier might choose a route like this, but my guess is most likely to
grab a part of the booming USA-India market in pax and cargo.
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karan69
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:42 pm

Real Interesting move indeed, i would think they could start to one of the secondary cities like HYD or AMD or even MAA which are yet underserved,

But maybe with AZ exit they are getting a desired slot,

How well do they cover South America, if they cover it well enough they might just be right starting connecting flights as trade between Indian and South American countries like Brazil is really booming.

karan
 
cricket
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:43 pm

For some strange reason, despite the high number of Goan's in Mumbai, wouldn't a GOI flight make more sense?

However, I would love to travel to Portugal again, I went there as a child and a direct service is always a good excuse to travel.
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CV990
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:02 pm

Hi!

If that is true I'm really glad to see TP going in that direction! Our portuguese navigators arrived to India in late 1400's with Vasco da Gama. In 1961 TP flew for a while from LIS to GOA via BEY and DAM ( people would ask why that short flight??? well according to a veteran TP pilot they had to do that otherwise Syria would let TP planes pass over their space! TP operated with the L1049G Super Constellation and those flights were stopped when India wisely invaded Goa, Damão and Diu. So it's a "coming back" to TP and I'm sure there will be a good market for this route, we cannot forget that there is a good indian community in Portugal, there are also starting some strong commercial ties between both countries and of course with such strong network TP have now in Brazil and Latin America, I'm sure that can improve traffic from India and Latin America too.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
BOEING787
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 2):
But maybe with AZ exit they are getting a desired slot,

What's this? AZ pulling out of Mumbai?
 
cricket
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting BOEING787 (Reply 5):
What's this? AZ pulling out of Mumbai?

And DEL - part of their planned revamp!
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:54 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 3):
For some strange reason, despite the high number of Goan's in Mumbai, wouldn't a GOI flight make more sense

There are quite a few Goans & East Indians [Mumbai natives] in BOM itself.A lot with a few ancestorsin Portugal/spain & Italy. wink 
Any Pic of their fleet.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
worldrider
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:12 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):
If that is true I'm really glad to see TP going in that direction! Our portuguese navigators arrived to India in late 1400's with Vasco da Gama. In 1961 TP flew for a while from LIS to GOA via BEY and DAM ( people would ask why that short flight??? well according to a veteran TP pilot they had to do that otherwise Syria would let TP planes pass over their space! TP operated with the L1049G Super Constellation and those flights were stopped when India wisely invaded Goa, Damão and Diu. So it's a "coming back"

oh come on!!! you portuguese are still so proud of your colonial past,, is there anything else you could be proud of than these 600 years old patriotic "virus". please, let's think present and dream the future..

anyway, as a portuguese born, i'm happy TP is back to "mother" India, aswell.

cheers

p.s. sorry to be a bit harsh
 
777way
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:52 pm

Iberia too are planning flying to Delhi in 2009.
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting Worldrider (Reply 8):
oh come on!!! you portuguese are still so proud of your colonial past,

I ask my self what does this have to do with the thread? As CV990 very well pointed out that, Portugal has long historical ties with India which have recently been reinforced with our Presidents visit to India.

Quoting Worldrider (Reply 8):
is there anything else you could be proud of than these 600 years old patriotic "virus". please, let's think present and dream the future..



Quoting Worldrider (Reply 8):
p.s. sorry to be a bit harsh

You have opted to hijack a thread and while doing so have made a complete fool of yourself.

PS: Next time be mature enough to spell Portuguese with a capital.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
airbazar
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting BOEING787 (Thread starter):
According to sources at their Indian GSA - Global Aviation Services, Air Portugal plans nonstop daily or 4 x weekly service LIS-BOM from early 2008.

I'll believe it when I see it. Are you sure we're not talking about a code-share? Portugal does have some good economic ties with India but I don't think it's enough to make even a 4 weekly flight work. Who knows, maybe they do which would be fantastic. I think China/Japan would be a much better Asian destination to link to their extensive Brazilian network. I don't think the traffic between Brazil and Indian is nearly as large as to China and Japan. Also, TP only serves EWR in N.America so I don't see this route as being an attempt to capture some of the traffic between the US and India. Besides there are lots of options, and soon there will be lots of non-stop options between the US and India. Again, US(East Coast)-China would be a better market to get into. We shall see. Regardless, if this rumor is true which I don't think it is, it would be a very bold move from TP, and at this point I'll applaude any effort by TP to search for new markets other than Brazil.
 
AF022
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:58 pm

GRU-BOM is probably what they are going after. I think SAA makes pots of money on this route.
 
CV990
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Worldrider (Reply 8):
oh come on!!! you portuguese are still so proud of your colonial past,, is there anything else you could be proud of than these 600 years old patriotic "virus". please, let's think present and dream the future..

anyway, as a portuguese born, i'm happy TP is back to "mother" India, aswell.

cheers

p.s. sorry to be a bit harsh

Hi Worldrider!

Even thinking present and dreaming future you cannot forget the past!!! I know that portuguese did bad things in their colonial times but I think you misunderstood my words....you picked on the sentence - "Our portuguese navigators arrived in late 1400's to India with Vasco da Gama..." - and you forgot that I was also mentioning the fact that TP flew to India in 1961! And also if you interpreted well my contribution I also said - "...when India wisely invaded Goa, Damão and Diu...", you can see in my words that the word - wisely - was in the right context I wanted...India did very well to invade something that was theirs and that because Salazar was stubborn, India wanted to take these portuguese territory in a loyal way! Regarding your last sentence...well I'm not taken it...seriously I'm not taken it! Now maybe you should also evaluate Switzerland past and what you ( swiss lords...) did to the menonites, burning them and drowning them in the lakes!!! I don't forget my past and I really regret about what we did...but I also know what other countries did!
Regards

P.S - Sorry to remind you about the menonites!!!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
SwissA330
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:47 pm

cool down you guys  Wink
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worldrider
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 13):

sorry to hurt you bro.. don't take it personnal.i remind you, i have "P"ortuguese passport and still feel more "Portuguese" than Swiss, i was born and lived there a while,,,it's just tiring to see compatriots still digesting that long past. I got a bit to quickly irritated with your first sentence, and didn't see the value your post.

Quoting CV990 (Reply 13):
Even thinking present and dreaming future you cannot forget the past!!! I know that portuguese did bad things in their colonial times but I think you misunderstood my words....you picked on the sentence - "Our portuguese navigators arrived in late 1400's to India with Vasco da Gama..." - and you forgot that I was also mentioning the fact that TP flew to India in 1961! And also if you interpreted well my contribution I also said - "...when India wisely invaded Goa, Damão and Diu...", you can see in my words that the word - wisely - was in the right context I wanted...India did very well to invade something that was theirs and that because Salazar was stubborn, India wanted to take these portuguese territory in a loyal way! Regarding your last sentence...well I'm not taken it...seriously I'm not taken it! Now maybe you should also evaluate Switzerland past and what you ( swiss lords...) did to the menonites, burning them and drowning them in the lakes!!! I don't forget my past and I really regret about what we did...but I also know what other countries did!
Regards

i apreciate! finally a compat that regrets what "we" did! i do aswell. there aren't that many of those.

All my respect
 
worldrider
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:33 am

again nice to see TP back Asia!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:41 am

Quit talking about History & lets hear about Aviation between the two countries.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CV990
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:44 am

Hi Worldrider!

I understand your point...but seriously I was not trying to "bring back" the old portuguese colonial times...just that a lot of portuguese visit India and want to see Goa, Damão and Diu...actually I have a possibility to travel to India next year and I do to, I would like to see not only India itself but pass by those places that have some portuguese influence. I work in Portugal in a social project backed by a swiss organization called Christliche Ost Mission from Bern, I have very good friends in Switzerland, my first trip outside Portugal was to GVA, the foreign airline that I flew most after TAP was Swissair and after Portugal the country that I visited most is indeed Switzerland...I think I'm only missing right now the Canton of Vallais...I love swiss fondue, racklette, kirsh, vermicelles....I use a Swatch and I have a Vitorinox in my car....do I love Switzerland and swiss people??? Yes I do!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
mahan
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 13):
to India in 1961! And also if you interpreted well my contribution I also said - "...when India wisely invaded Goa, Damão and Diu...", you can see in my words that the word - wisely - was in the right context I wanted...India did very well to invade something that was theirs and that because Salazar was stubborn, India wanted to take these portuguese territory in a loyal way!

CV990 - It is very nice to hear someone from Portugal acknowledge that India had a right to invade Goa, Daman and Diu to claim what is rightfully ours. I believe in 1961, there was harsh criticism in the Western World that India had committed a blunder by ignoring Mahatma Gandhi's ideals. ( BTW, that is a whole different topic for some other forum altogether ).
Airlines I have flown - IC, 9W, KF, AI, LH, BA, LX, CO, DL, UA, SQ, MH, AA
 
CV990
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:06 am

Hi Mahan!

Thanks for your words...let me tell you true story related with that "invasion"...this was wrote by a veteran Captain from TAP, name Silva Soares...he was a TAP pilot that started almost from the beginning TAP. In 1972 TAP pilots were at Boeing headquarters at Seattle to receive instruction on the brand new 747 and they meat some crew members from Air India....they had classes together and soon they started to related each other so nicely that at the end they had meals in common. One of the Air India's pilots shared with the TAP pilots that during the "invasion" he was a fighter pilot for Indian Air Force and he said that when they bombed the Dabolin Airport they received strict instructions not to attack TAP airplanes...just to hit infrastructures. When both TAP and Air India left Seattle with their 747's they were indeed good friends...and like Captain Silva Soares said pilots don't normally deal with political issues!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
mk777
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:42 am

only a handful gates available at the BOM airport, is what i am assuming!!!

How did they manage to get a slot?? Did they take over AZ's slot??

I think BOM needs to expand before attracting many airlines, nonetheless, nice to see TP making an apperance there after 4 decades (if the rumour is true). Good luck  Smile
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LipeGIG
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 12):
GRU-BOM is probably what they are going after. I think SAA makes pots of money on this route.

Not only GRU because they have an extensive network in Brazil and the large deals between Brazil and India are related with energy and oil. You can see a good advantage for the other markets where TP is the sole daily player (SSA, FOR, REC), where they have their huge operation (GIG) and also the capital (BSB) where they are the only player.

Felipe
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airbazar
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting Worldrider (Reply 15):
it's just tiring to see compatriots still digesting that long past.

It's part of the country's history, some of it a proud history which resulted in great contributions to the World. 'nuff said, now back on topic. I suspect that if the BOM rumor is true, one of the determining factors is that it only requires 1 aircraft to operate the route, while any other valuable Asian destination would require 2 aircraft.
 
cricket
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:43 pm

OK, given that TP has A332's and A343's - which type would be used for the service?

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
There are quite a few Goans & East Indians [Mumbai natives] in BOM itself.A lot with a few ancestorsin Portugal/spain & Italy. wink

Never said there weren't - my boss in Mumbai is a guy with the surname Carvalho. In school in Delhi I had three D'Souza's, one Suares as classmates and a Cardoso taught me. A service which connects these people with obvious Portuguese connections back to Portugal will be great. However, as has been mentioned, TP will also want a piece of the India-Brazil traffic. With EK starting out DXB-GRU soon with the 77L, TP will have to move fast!
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BigTom
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 12):
GRU-BOM is probably what they are going after. I think SAA makes pots of money on this route.

EK will clean up too with their new GRU route

Quoting Cricket (Reply 24):
However, as has been mentioned, TP will also want a piece of the India-Brazil traffic. With EK starting out DXB-GRU soon with the 77L, TP will have to move fast!

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Cheers
 
CV990
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:09 pm

Hi!

The only aspect I think TP have a good advantage is the fact that TP right now have dozens of flights to many airports in Brazil, and we cannot forget that TP is even applying to other places in Latin America like EZE, via Brazil, so that might help also TP traffic from India. Regarding what Cricket said about those names, yes those are "genuine" portuguese names and let me tell you that in Portugal all those indians with portuguese background are well respected here ( the other ones too...) and the portuguese really LOVE indian cuisine from those ex: provinces, I've tried too and I tell you...those guys know how to cook!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
cricket
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 26):
and the portuguese really LOVE indian cuisine from those ex: provinces, I've tried too and I tell you...those guys know how to cook!!!

Pork Vindaloo and Chicken Xacuti man! Yeah!
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airbazar
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 24):
OK, given that TP has A332's and A343's - which type would be used for the service?

A332 for sure. The A340 is needed for the African routes.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 24):
However, as has been mentioned, TP will also want a piece of the India-Brazil traffic. With EK starting out DXB-GRU soon with the 77L, TP will have to move fast!

True but EK entering GRU will be just one of many other airlines already linking Brazil with India, they're not exactly introducing something new. It will still require one stop and a plane change between GRU and BOM, and at least 2 stops/plane changes from/to any other Brazilian city. TP has 60 flights a week to 7 Brazilian cities. Having said that, I am very skeptical about this rumor actually turning to reality.
 
CV990
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:32 am

Hi Cricket!
[quote=Cricket,reply=27]Pork Vindaloo and Chicken Xacuti man! Yeah!

Yes, those ones but also for example Sarapatel, Paparis, and the desert Bebinca ( that's one of the most original and awesome deserts I've ever had...nothing like that around the world I tell you!!! ). I'm starting to be hungry!!! Back to the topic....I think TP would use the A330-200 on those flights, like Airbazar said the A340-300 is pretty much attached to Africa and it will stay like that until TP starts to receive the A350's ( if they receive them....in the portuguese media it's been said lately that TP is negotiating the change of the A350 to A350XWB and if things don't come out in the right way TP could cancel the order - I don't think so seriously, but TP might get good benefits on that renegotiation!), then all long-haul fleet will based on the A350.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
worldrider
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 27):
Pork Vindaloo and Chicken Xacuti man! Yeah!

that's Goan cuisine isn't it? haven't tried yet. what bout the Goan wine?
talking about the Portuguese names, you can meet many of these old families ind Goa, a few in Kerala and many
in Sri Lanka too. A few old goan people stil speak very good portuguese and i recently learned that the Goan constitution
is still writen in portuguese and hasn't change since the 60'. just for info.
 
Nimish
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting Worldrider (Reply 30):
A few old goan people stil speak very good portuguese

I've actually met folks in Panjim (part of Goa) who could only speak Portuguese, and only very broken no English or Hindi. That was quite a surprise to me, but it went to show me how deeply the Portuguese culture was entrenched in some of the Goanese folks! I'm sure both India and Portugal could easily deal with a daily non-stop on the GOI-LIS or BOM-LIS sectors.
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CV990
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RE: Air Portugal (TP) To Mumbai

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 31):
I'm sure both India and Portugal could easily deal with a daily non-stop on the GOI-LIS or BOM-LIS sectors.

That is quite an interesting point, the only thing I'm affraid of is the fact that a flight from Portugal to India could not have enough traffic...but it could also have!!! I'm not sure...if I want to look only in the prespective of the portuguese, I think the market it's quite small, but like I said before, if we want to look to other areas where TP is strong like Africa and Latin America maybe it's quite attractive.
Yes, the Goanese or "Goeses" like we say here in Portugal are a very interesting community, I have some good friends from Goa here in Portugal and what I like most is the fact that the names they received when they where born are quite unusual, from the 40's/50's/60's...almost that they stopped in time. I too would like to see a much better and deep relationship between Portugal and India, and Portugal should also sponsor more Goa, Damão and Diu maybe helping the India Government to preserve some of the monuments, also implementing libraries with Portugal background and history to the emergent indian generation...I think the "invasion by India" issue it's long gone and I can tell you at this moment that no one really talks about that. Just came to my mind that in the 80's Portugal returned to India some indian treasures that Portugal stole and for that a nice Air India 747-200 came to pick that....really nice to see an Air India airplane in LIS!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!

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