airmale
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MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:06 pm

MH will discontinue flights from KUL to ZRH by the end of January 2008.
Flights in Amadeus as of 01FEB show as cancelled.
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TreeHillRavens
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:16 pm

Yes. It's confirmed. The 4x weekly KUL/NGO and 2x weekly KUL/CEB non-stop will be cancelled too. Flights to SUB, XMN and KMG will be reduced too.
 
OHLHD
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Airmale (Thread starter):

Anyone knows if they are in better shape already?

Happy Anniversary! Big grin
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting Airmale (Thread starter):
MH will discontinue flights from KUL to ZRH by the end of January 2008.

That is, of course, if the Malaysian government doesn't interfere and forces the airline to keep flying the route, as they most recently did with the equally loss making KUL ARN EWR route.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 2):
Anyone knows if they are in better shape already?

They keep on bragging on how well they are doing, but very little has changed strategically. MH is still serving too many longhaul destinations with too low frequency. The closing of both ZRH and NGO are steps in the right directions, but bolder choices need to be made.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 2):
Anyone knows if they are in better shape already?

Financially it really shows, with 4 straight quarters of net profits. That is without doubt for sure.

It has been widely discussed that ZRH is performing very poorly (including some testimonials from personal friends who are MH's cabin staff) in both yield and load. The only reason the route stays is because of political pressure, something which is plaguing MH's management like a cancer.

I think the move is very business oriented. Maybe at the time MH axed 10 international routes during the early implementation of its BTP in March 2006, these routes (ZRH, NGO and CEB) managed to escape the massive axing due to 'some protections' but after more than a year through BTP, their poor performances could not justify any more reasons for the routes to be kept.

With the closure of ZRH, I think MH should work in strengthtening its present in FRA (currently 5 times weekly) into maybe daily flights. Flights to ZRH can be codeshared with LX, which MH already partners. This is of course if MH is not too oblidge in serving Skyteam hubs (like FCO, which is performing poorly as well) just for the sake to increase its chance in getting into the alliance.

The closure of NGO just proved that only NRT (currently twice daily) and KIX (daily) are the one that only matters. During the massive 10 routes axing back in early 2006, FUK was axed from the network.

CEB on the other hand, will still being served 2 times weekly via BKI after the closure.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
That is, of course, if the Malaysian government doesn't interfere and forces the airline to keep flying the route, as they most recently did with the equally loss making KUL ARN EWR route.

As the only route which survived the massive axing back in early 2006 (both ARN and EWR were AXED but subsequently REINSTATED back following an ORDER from the Malaysian government) due to 'Visit Malaysia Year 2007' reason, it is interesting to see whether ARN and EWR will stay post 2007 as theoritically, both should be (re) axed (based on historical their poor performances) when the VMY2007 campaign is over. But I see, losing a present in the US east coast would be too painful to MH's pride.

Something to refresh us on what was happening earlier:
Almost Official: MH Closing KUL-ARN-EWR (by Hugggan Sep 11 2006 in Civil Aviation)
Rumor MH Closing KUL-ARN-EWR? (by Sukhoi Aug 14 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
MH is still serving too many longhaul destinations with too low frequency. The closing of both ZRH and NGO are steps in the right directions, but bolder choices need to be made.

Maybe we can see this is happening in the '3rd wave' of axing (considering the 10 massive as the first one and the one being discuss in this thread as the second one)? Should MH really axes what should be axed from its network, we can surely bet EZE, CPT and JNB will be removed from their network. But then again, can MH accepts a fact that it will lose present in South America and Africa (pride wise)?

Details on the overall routes changes (including a tag on of IST to DXB and the opening of a new route - Lahore) can be read at Malaysian Aviation Thread 6 (by 9MMAR Sep 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2007-09-17 19:38:34]
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:11 am

Two more threads from the past which relates to this topic, including the one where the reinstatement of KUL-ARN-EWR was announced and the one which clarified that ZRH survived the massive route axing.
Malaysia Resumes BEY, Axes CAI, ARN & EWR (by 9MMAR Oct 4 2006 in Civil Aviation)#menu26 MH Quarterly Result Saw Zurich, Rome & LA To Stay (by 9MMAR Aug 31 2006 in Civil Aviation)#menu51

Reading it back, I am  laughing  of being so naive back then.
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
CEB on the other hand, will still being served 2 times weekly via BKI after the closure.

By doing this, it would be profitable? BKI-CEB is such a low yielding sector it is not even funny and putting only twice weekly service, won't it excerbate the problem even further?
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
Viscount724
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
Flights to ZRH can be codeshared with LX, which MH already partners.

How would MH codeshare with LX since LX doesn't serve KUL? Or do you mean MH would codeshare on the LX sector FRA-ZRH or from some other point in Europe served by MH (if the respective bilaterals provide for such 3rd country codesharing)?
 
United Airline
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:12 pm

What aircraft they fly to Zurich? B 777-200ER?
 
Viscount724
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 8):
What aircraft they fly to Zurich? B 777-200ER?

Yes, 772ER currently.
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 6):
By doing this, it would be profitable? BKI-CEB is such a low yielding sector it is not even funny and putting only twice weekly service, won't it excerbate the problem even further?

Maybe MH is not ready to let CEB go yet. Since it is a low yielding sector, I guess that's why it is going to be paired with BKI. MH serves several other destinations with only 2 weekly frequency - IST, EZE and soon KMG.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
How would MH codeshare with LX since LX doesn't serve KUL? Or do you mean MH would codeshare on the LX sector FRA-ZRH or from some other point in Europe served by MH (if the respective bilaterals provide for such 3rd country codesharing)?

Yes, I mean the latter. I am not too familiar with airlines codeshare arrangement but considering LX and MH are codeshare partners (for the KUL-ZRH route) and LX is owned by LH and LX flies to FRA, which is a LH hub, that's when the idea of codesharing on FRA-ZRH between MH and LX came up. But if it couldn't be done, maybe MH can extend their codesharing agreement with AZ by including FCO-ZRH too. I think ZRH was not included in the agreement with AZ earlier.
 
airmale
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:14 pm

AZ does not operate FCO-ZRH.....
.....up there with the best!
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting AirMale (Reply 11):
AZ does not operate FCO-ZRH.....

But AZ flies to ZRH via MXP.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:02 pm

...since I'm too lazy to look it up: do they still op to VIE? Is it nonstop?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
...since I'm too lazy to look it up: do they still op to VIE? Is it nonstop?



Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
I think the move is very business oriented. Maybe at the time MH axed 10 international routes during the early implementation of its BTP in March 2006

VIE was one of the 10 international destinations, which were axed during the early stages of the implementation of MH's BTP (Business Turnaround Plan), together with MAN.

Earlier, MH served VIE nonstop using B772ER, 3 times a week (if I am not mistaken). When MH withdrawn from VIE, MH codeshared the KUL-VIE flight with OS, which served the route as a stopover to SYD but on 25 March 2007, OS withdrawn KUL (and SYD) thus terminating the direct (non stop) link between KUL and VIE.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):
With the closure of ZRH, I think MH should work in strengthtening its present in FRA (currently 5 times weekly) into maybe daily flights.

... or alternatively get rid of FRA altogether, as this is yet another route that still has to turn a profit for the airline.

Let's not kid ourselves: the financial performance of the airline as a whole may have been improved because of a series of one-off measures designed to make the balance sheet look better, but strategically, MH has yet to make some really key decisions on the future of its network and hub structure.

As it goes, destinations like FRA, IST, JNB-CPT-EZE and ARN-EWR continue to run in the red for the airline. None of these destinations is served by a daily frequency and MH is facing difficult times in catching the premium traffic it needs to make such routes viable, when its direct competitors in the region offer better frequencies and smoother transfers at their hubs.

As for Europe, MH is making money on AMS and CDG and just about breaking even at LHR, even after it gave up one of its three daily frequencies there. The financial performance KUL FCO has recently improved, and one can reasonably expect a further bolstering of frequencies on that route. I would also not be surprised if, at some point, MH were to start with a daylight KUL AMS flight.
 
OHLHD
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:21 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 4):

Thanks for this detailed info!
 
9MMAR
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
... or alternatively get rid of FRA altogether, as this is yet another route that still has to turn a profit for the airline.

This has been discussed many times and it has its own weight too. Although closing it would be beneficial to MH financially, I doubt FRA would be closed unless MH really made up their mind about joining Skyteam and only focus on the alliance's 3 European hubs (CDG, AMS and FCO) alongside LHR. Closing FRA would mean closing an international Golden Lounge as well.

I guess, the best European route map for MH is when FRA, IST and ARN (together with EWR) being axed leaving only LHR, CDG and AMS (all being served twice daily) and FCO (once daily).

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
As for Europe, MH is making money on AMS and CDG and just about breaking even at LHR, even after it gave up one of its three daily frequencies there. The financial performance KUL FCO has recently improved, and one can reasonably expect a further bolstering of frequencies on that route. I would also not be surprised if, at some point, MH were to start with a daylight KUL AMS flight.

Thank you for the insight. It confirms many of my (personal) questions about AMS.
 
777way
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:27 pm

MH also starting new destination Lahore in Pakistan, from 7 January thrice weekly A333.

Istanbul routing being changed from nonstop to via Dubai from 8 January.

[Edited 2007-09-19 14:34:35]
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:21 am

Y class loads on the ZRH route were high, but for C and F class, MH was losing passengers to SQ - with their new 77W aircraft.

How on earth is MH going to codeshare with LX if the latter doesn't even fly here?

MH should just join Skyteam soon rather than later... then it can at least codeshare with KLM to help serve most of its northern european routes.
 
flyingfool
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 19):
then it can at least codeshare with KLM to help serve most of its northern european routes.

MH is already codesharing on European KL flights, including those to Scandinavia and Finland.

Regards, Flyingfool
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 19):
Y class loads on the ZRH route were high, but for C and F class, MH was losing passengers to SQ - with their new 77W aircraft.

In that case this phenomenon would also affect LX's ZRH-BKK-SIN. This routing has not been profitable since the days of SR and I can only imagine how LX is doing to counter this loss? Especially so now that LX is in Star Alliance, makes it easier for loyal pax to jump over to SQ's nonstop flight to SIN rather than LX's one-stop direct.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
joffie
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
...since I'm too lazy to look it up: do they still op to VIE? Is it nonstop?

No, stopped that some time last year IIRC.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:37 pm

MH will increase ADL to 5x weekly later this year.

I'm hoping that AKL will go daily again in the near future.

I'm wondering about the goverment intervention with the ZRH route aswell, hopefully for the sake of the airline they aren't made to continue another route that doesn't make money for them.
 
ZRH
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 23):
I'm wondering about the goverment intervention with the ZRH route aswell, hopefully for the sake of the airline they aren't made to continue another route that doesn't make money for them.

As much as I shall miss MH in Zurich I absolutely agree with you. Governments have to be nobody in management decisions. An airline only has to fly routes which can be economically legitimated. This does not mean that every route must make money, mainly short haul, because they probably feed long haul flights.
 
sandrozrh
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RE: MH Discontinues KUL-ZRH

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 21):
In that case this phenomenon would also affect LX's ZRH-BKK-SIN. This routing has not been profitable since the days of SR and I can only imagine how LX is doing to counter this loss? Especially so now that LX is in Star Alliance, makes it easier for loyal pax to jump over to SQ's nonstop flight to SIN rather than LX's one-stop direct.

I'm sure that HB-IWC can give you a hand there.