soon7x7
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New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:48 am

I'm sure this will raise h-ll, but last night I had to pick some one up at LaGuardia Airport and as usual it's always a mess.The roads are potholed, the terminal areas are filthy,many emloyee types are blatently rude...signage is wrong...smells like the NY subway stations.With all the money these local airports take in, you know they can make budget. The three major New York Airports are considered to be GATEWAYS to America! Where is the welcome mat?European Airports are well groomed, even ramp ares are immaculate, of course exceptions exist but the attempt is made. The same security demands are placed on passengers, but in a courteous and respectful way.Our airports perhaps not the largest or the busiest in the world but certainly are the most historically renowned.Don't tell me to move to Europe,...beautiful as it is... I'd like to see the local facilities really make an attempt at making newcomers to America feel impressed in the Good Sence.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:08 am

JFK is begining to look like a great place. Less the Delta terminal...nice plantings, new roads, new parking structures, new terminal for American, new Terminal for Jet Blue. JFK looks a heck of a lot better then it has.
 
soon7x7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 1):

Your'e absolutely correct, trouble with JFK is if you're not completely familiar with the road network, and your in a rush...oh well...however the original design of JFK was to me the perfect layout...all vehicles located in the center of the circle and all airport ops occurred on the out side of the circle.I know planes got bigger, population grew, number of airline tennants increased, so why couldn't the circle.I sound like I'm contradicting myself but EWR and JFK are making tremendous strides but LGA is a ---- hole. Cabies don't like it, Limo drivers don't like it, Pilots loath it, and passengers are tired of it.If you come in on Spirit Airlines you must go to the Midwest baggage carousel to pick it up your belongings, confusion, poor identifications, New York is supposed to be the BEST of the BEST.Driving in the airport is like a bumper car race.I wonder if the flow into LGA could successfully be split amongst JFK and EWR...!?
 
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STT757
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting Soon7x7 (Thread starter):
With all the money these local airports take in, you know they can make budget. The three major New York Airports are considered to be GATEWAYS to America! Where is the welcome mat?

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey controls the now 5 NYC area airports (EWR, JFK, LGA, TEB, SWF), the Port Authority is a quasi Government agency controlled equally by the States of New York and New Jersey. With regards to LGA the New York Politician's marching orders towards the PA with regards to LGA is not to bother, they want every dime invested into JFK which has happened over the last 10 years. JFK has undergone a tremendous transformation at the expense of LGA, for instance during the Giuliani administration $685 Million dollars was allocated to extend the N Train to LGA. When Giuliani left office the money was diverted to the LIRR's EAS project.

There is hope in the near future:

If you go to the Port Authority's website they have a link to their 10 year capital plan, in that plan includes a $1 Billion makeover of the Central Terminal Building at LGA. The scope of the project would involve replacing the concourses with new large airy concourses, all of which would be connected by an airside corridor so travelers would have to be re screened. The redevelopment of the CTB at LGA is tied to a $1.3 Redevelopment of Terminal A at EWR, which includes new concourses, ticketing/check in areas, baggage claim and parking garage.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
787EWR
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting Soon7x7 (Thread starter):
I'm sure this will raise h-ll, but last night I had to pick some one up at LaGuardia Airport and as usual it's always a mess.The roads are potholed, the terminal areas are filthy,many emloyee types are blatently rude...signage is wrong...smells like the NY subway stations.With all the money these local airports take in, you know they can make budget. The three major New York Airports are considered to be GATEWAYS to America! Where is the welcome mat?European Airports are well groomed, even ramp ares are immaculate, of course exceptions exist but the attempt is made. The same security demands are placed on passengers, but in a courteous and respectful way.Our airports perhaps not the largest or the busiest in the world but certainly are the most historically renowned.Don't tell me to move to Europe,...beautiful as it is... I'd like to see the local facilities really make an attempt at making newcomers to America feel impressed in the Good Sence.

As a New Yorker, I can tell you:

JFK has done a huge amount of work with their terminals and the road infrastructure. Trust me, if you had come into JFK about 6 years ago, you would never want to come back. I think the improvements to terminal 1, Terminal 4(the former IAB, Jetblue's T6 and eventually T5 and the new American Terminal(8 I believe) are going to be state of the art. Also, the addition of the AirTrain from New York and terminal shuttle has really improved access to and from the facility. I got from Midtown Manhattan to Jetblue's terminal in 50 minutes one rainy afternoon - Via the LIRR and Airtrain.

EWR has also significantly improved. The Continental terminal is incredibly efficient and getting better. The international arrivals facility in Terminal B is impressive and they are still making improvements to it. I would rather fly any international flight into Newark that any of the other 3(especially since I live in NJ). The wait at Customs normally runs about 15 to 20 minutes on a heavy day, but it works. Continental, by the way, has it's own which is also excellent.

Now, what you experienced was LGA. I can concur with the older structure, rude employees(not all NYers are like that) and limited facilities. As for the smell of a sewer, when you go to LGA during a hot and steamy day, the combination of jet fuel along with the odor from the East river can be a bit staggering. The only real improvement that they made there was an upgraded garage in front of the Central Terminal building. I don't know what plans they have instore for that terminal, but as you can imagine, it will be extremely disruptive. On the positive side, the US Airways terminal and Marine Air Terminal for the Delta Shuttles are very good and modern facilities.

My two cents.  Big grin
 
N77014
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:46 am

What no one is taking into account is that these airports were built during the era of sea planes, Connies, and DC-3's. The idea of huge network hubs and international transit hubs had not entered the landscape. And the authorities of the time did not have the foresight to imagine such a day coming
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
tommy767
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 4):
Now, what you experienced was LGA. I can concur with the older structure, rude employees(not all NYers are like that) and limited facilities. As for the smell of a sewer, when you go to LGA during a hot and steamy day, the combination of jet fuel along with the odor from the East river can be a bit staggering.

LGA surprised me on a few different levels when I flew out a month ago on AA LGA-MCO.

1. Roads and signage for terminals is atrocious. We had no idea where to find AA, we just lucked out by picking the right terminal
2. The ticketing area is a zoo. I'm not sure about if the day I went whether travelers knew that there was a whole station of self-check in available, but nevertheless everybody was waiting in the regular check in lines that were going out the door. And the CTA's check- in areas are small and the ceilings are low. It was claustrophobic.
3. Security was chaotic overall, but not terrible and it was moving. I've had much worse at CO terminal C at EWR.
4. And then our flight #1617 was on-time, was upgraded to F on a 757 and we were only #4 or so in line for take-off. I was expecting a lot worse here.
5. While I prefer JFK or EWR, LGA while a Sh*thole in appearance, was tolerable. Plus, they have pretty cool approaches when you're landing.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 4):
JFK has done a huge amount of work with their terminals and the road infrastructure. Trust me, if you had come into JFK about 6 years ago, you would never want to come back.

i agree. Even 4 years ago, an out-of-towner would want to avoid JFK like the plague. Before the Airtrain, JFK was terribly inefficent. American's new terminal makes me want to keep going back.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 4):
EWR has also significantly improved. The Continental terminal is incredibly efficient and getting better. The international arrivals facility in Terminal B is impressive and they are still making improvements to it.

I always have thought Terminal C is a mess, still do, and i avoid it when i can because terminal A is easier, but it is good for CO.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
soon7x7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 5):

As is mentioned above in my second entry, the growth of aviation, aircraft size, the local population, etc IS considered in my argument. But this growth has occurred globally and other countries seem to deal with it, ...even with a smile! I guess when sometimes I must pay $2400.oo round trip for a last minute biz trip I should accept the fact that I will be subject to security abuse, lousy expensive terminal food, rude passengers and employees,the potential of missing my connection because some angry ramper just drove a vehicle into the skin of our aircraft ,now the flight is delayed or postponed.Am I expecting too much? or...should I feel for my money I should be treated as a paying consumer buying a product, expecting a little courtesy and a smile which goes a long way and food that does not have to be gourmet, but somewhat pleasing. You get all that in countries I have had the pleasure of travelling to, I just do not see it here at home.The bottom line here is...THE AIRLINES BOTTOM LINE....(My argument does not include howerver the pilots , flight attendents and other crew members as in my experience, they are some of the most professional individuals in the business world today, ALSO Air traffic controllers,a thankless job if I ever saw one, the mechanics as well, all top shelf).I'm talking front lines where the flying public is exposed.One to ten on the abuse meter...................15!
 
N77014
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 7):
As is mentioned above in my second entry, the growth of aviation, aircraft size, the local population, etc IS considered in my argument. But this growth has occurred globally and other countries seem to deal with it, ...even with a smile! I guess when sometimes I must pay $2400.oo round trip for a last minute biz trip I should accept the fact that I will be subject to security abuse, lousy expensive terminal food, rude passengers and employees,the potential of missing my connection because some angry ramper just drove a vehicle into the skin of our aircraft ,now the flight is delayed or postponed.Am I expecting too much? or...should I feel for my money I should be treated as a paying consumer buying a product, expecting a little courtesy and a smile which goes a long way and food that does not have to be gourmet, but somewhat pleasing. You get all that in countries I have had the pleasure of travelling to, I just do not see it here at home.The bottom line here is...THE AIRLINES BOTTOM LINE....(My argument does not include howerver the pilots , flight attendents and other crew members as in my experience, they are some of the most professional individuals in the business world today, ALSO Air traffic controllers,a thankless job if I ever saw one, the mechanics as well, all top shelf).I'm talking front lines where the flying public is exposed.One to ten on the abuse meter...................15!

What you need to differentiate is which countries are you speaking of.

Many emerging economies have never had to ramp up the airport infrastructure until now, as travel was the domain of the rich. Airports in places like the Middle East and China look spanking new and well laid out becaue they had the opportunity to make it clean sheet. Unlike a SFO, LAX, or JFK, where traffic levels where high and trending upward, and where land to build out new runways and terminals became scarce and expensive.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
sky0000547
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:41 am

Last month it was my first time flying into New York and it was JFK to be exact. It took us 1.5hrs to taxi into our gate after landing so initial impression of the airport wasn't great. Finally left the airport at 11pm on airport shuttle and faced with road works and traffic jams. Knowing the airport shuttle will circle to different terminals for pick up, I was basically just wanna get out of there. There were people directing traffic but they were just fighting a losing battle. It was a mess. I said I'm not going into JFK again but then told Newark would be the same.
 
soon7x7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 8):

Although I have not been to the Middle East, having watched the marketing of Emirates, Qatar, Jet Airways, etc...I am sure the traveler will in those countries experience high end experiences and a courteous welcome,along with immaculate arrival and departure areas....The countries I have been to ,Norway, England, Germany, Austria, that I like to referrence,due to the attention given to their airports. Munich has the cleanest airport everything I have ever experienced. White ramps, no oil stains, vehicles all look new or well maintained, all glass is cleaned, no kiddy nose prints, I mean the place was busy, big and sparkled like a new hospital.All signage is well thought out...even in my limited German...was easy to egress...Frankfurt airport had maintenance workers at night polishing the granite islands outside by the passenger drop off areas.I was shocked.Security let us photograph the terminal inside and they asked us if they could help us any other way...WOW!...it was a pleasurable EXPERIENCE...then I flew home LUF A340-600, beautiful and big, TOO BIG for JFK, they had no place to put us so we sat for 45 minutes in front of Virgin Airs A340-600...What will it be like when they stretch the A380 another 60 feet?......%&$*#! ...when I got into customs I had my cell phone in my hand (powered off)I some security individual with limited english skills proceeded to open me a new, you know what....Welcome home!
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
I wonder if the flow into LGA could successfully be split amongst JFK and EWR...!?

Um, each of these airports has 30-60 minute taxi delays on departure in the evening, coupled with ground delay programs anytime the wind blows the wrong way or a cloud darkens the taxiways. In both cases, this is due primarily to inadequate runway capacity for the amount of traffic, or else, overscheduling by the airlines (take your pick!). Think about it - ATL, LAX, DTW, DEN, DFW, IAH, and other large hubs have multiple parallel runways. JFK has two sets of parallel runways that cross each other, and EWR has one set with a short crosswind runway. Adding half of LGA's volume to either JFK or EWR would bring things to a standstill, making the Lincoln Tunnel approach look like an empty bowling alley.

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 6):
always have thought Terminal C is a mess, still do, and i avoid it when i can because terminal A is easier, but it is good for CO.

Actually, I think of EWR C as a decent (if not splendid) and easy-to-navigate terminal. It has large windows, many options for eating, drinking, and shopping, good signage, plenty of moving walkways, multiple security checkpoints, a good FIS facility, and so on. Yes, it's congested at certain times of the day, and yes, I'm sure CO wishes it could expand the FIS and even domestic areas. Overall it's one of the better terminals in the metro area (but, as the OP suggested, that's not saying much!), and well-laid out for both O+D and connecting traffic.
 
PanAm747
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:00 am

Okay, I have to ask - why would ANYONE ever want to drive in New York City if you don't have to?

I always recommend that if you are going with a group, pre-order a limo. I have done this many times, and have always had a great experience. If you are going alone, I recommend you fly into EWR and take NJ Transit trains (which stop right at the airport) and go right into Manhattan's Penn Station, from which you can connect to all of NYC.

However, as for problems for the airports themselves, it has been exceptionally well pointed out that there are serious problems with terminal space, runway layouts, approach patterns, antiquated ATC procedures, and more than anything else, NIMBY's who don't want any changes made to airports or approach patterns (although they'll be sure to b**** when their $59 flight to Orlando is delayed because of it!!). The fact that they function at all is amazing!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
apodino
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:29 am

I doubt this will happen, but if Eliot Spitzer gets his way, Aqueduct Racetrack will close and Belmont will go year round save for the Saratoga races. If that happens, is there enough land being vacated at the Big A and is it close enough to where they could build a new runway for JFK on the site?

As it said it will never happen. But its fun to think of stuff like this.
 
soon7x7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 13):

It would become the TRUMP HELIPORT...he would provide shuttles to TRUMP's Jones beach catering hall...with complimentry hair styling for all...
 
aajfksjubklyn
Posts: 458
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:37 pm

Beleive me Aquaduct is not becoming a new runway. How does a round site work for a runway? Besides it's on the wrong side of 12 lanes of total traffic...6 for the belt, 6 for the conduit. That would be something.
 
Himmelstormer
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:06 pm

JFK is a great airport. At times it can be a bit chaotic(especially at arrivals) but other than that there is no problem. So much history and I was in awe when I say the Saarinen building, terminal 5, for the first time(still am). I thought to myself, this is where it started. JFK has character - nothing more boring than an airport without character. I admit it is loud and crazy at times, but that's cool with me, my flights have always left on time so I have no complaints. JFK is also a proper international gateway with flights from all over the world and you really feel that when you arrive. Finally, immigration there is more polite compared to BOS and EWR and they always say: "Enjoy your stay" which is nice. It makes you feel welcome.

I have only visited LGA so I can't comment on it, but it's place in aviation history is undeniable.


Regarding EWR I think it is fine airport although I have had a couple of incidents where the staff wasn't exactly helpful. However, never had any problems with my flights and my overall impression is pretty good.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:33 pm

I second your thoughts on JFK. In college while I was young architecture student, I built a model of Saarinen's T5, All I have is pictures of the model left as the model fell apart over time. It was made of balsa wood, paper and museum board as we called it. My fellow classmate, built T6, the IM Pei building. It was interesting to learn the thoughts behind the Terminals. These terminals in and of themselves were destinations. They still are. I will miss the original T8 & T9, T8 with it jet engine ceiling fans, and there was a feeling of nostalgia. AA has done a great job with the new T8, once again they created a destination.

As far as LGA, we the Central Terminal is a mixture of 1980's architecture stuck in a 60's mold. The one odd-ball architectural statement is the roof of the terminal. The way it acts as a hude shield almost.

The Marine Air terminal is an architectural landmark which I thoroughly enjoy visiting.

The one thing that is a major paradox at JFK is the Airtran. Its big and clumpy, and they ruined the views that you would experience when you drive into the airport off the Van Wyke. Why with todays technology, why the airtrain didn't have a thin graceful structure that didn't look like a LAX highway is beyond me-it could have looked like Disneyworld graceful monorail. All you see now when you enter the airport is the airtrain tracks and HUGE stations. If you asked me, AirTrain's infrastructure destroyed JFK. All this, but yet it is a life saver as far as time, hence it being a paradox. What is leading the way with todays architecture at Major Airports (excluding DEN, and few others) is function not form.

Proud to say that the airline that has flown me round the world with a million miles spent some money in making a destination at JFK, AA! They kept the tradition alive out there. Looks as though B6 is next...

Now DFW...Hum Cough Sneeze..thank god for the D terminal. And lets forget MIA..
 
Max777geek
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting Soon7x7 (Thread starter):
last night I had to pick some one up at LaGuardia Airport and as usual it's always a mess.

Come to pick someone at Rome Fiumicino next time, you'll feel much better.
 
soon7x7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 17):

AA is doing a nice job...agreed, I understand they are soon going to scrap the mosaic outside wall but may sell off its pieces as some sort of keepsake. Heard that somewhere...?
 
thesandbender
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:44 pm

I lived in New York for a year and a half (recent escapee) and have six years as a traveling consultant under my belt. Both LGA and JFK are some of the worst airports I've ever been through. JFK is getting better but only a few months ago I and a few other passengers delayed at LGA were counting mice to pass the time. To add insult to injury, LGA has frequent and lengthy delays that get worse throughout the day... and most of their vendors close at 8:00 or 9:00. So you're just stuck... staring at mice  bored .

One of the posts commented on Taxis. If you're going to Manhattan call Dial-7 (212) 777-7777 or Carmel (212) 666-6666 when you get to LGA. They are cheaper than a taxi by a few dollars, I've never had to wait more than five minutes for the car to arrive and generally the cars are a little nicer than a yellow cab. Don't know what the rates are like to the other boroughs but it probably holds true for all of them.

Not to thread jack but has anyone flown through Houston-Hobby lately? I went down to visit my parents and when I got off the jet bridge was convinced I was in the wrong airport. It's *nice*. LGA should take notes because Hobby was almost as bad.
 
soon7x7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting Himmelstormer (Reply 16):

That is probably the strongest argument for careful planning and design is NY airports is the history, in fact for many years Long Island was probablty the aviation capital of the world. You had Grumman in Bethpage,Fairchild republic, Mitchell Field, Flloyd Bennett,Zahns airport plus a dozen other small aircraft manufactures and satellite neighborhood airports.Twenty two miles north, you have Sikorsky, and Bridgeport airport the location that built the Gull wing corsair in WWll.Hellcats, f-14's, A-10's, F-105's they all were built here, as a kid I watched DC-6,7's,...Connies...it was an aviation circus...now it sucks!
Used to park on roof of PanAm building and drink/chickies...and take pix...NO FENCE!...No more though,now you can't be seen near the outside of the airport much less the inside with a camera.
 
aajfksjubklyn
Posts: 458
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Thesandbender (Reply 20):
I lived in New York for a year and a half (recent escapee) and have six years as a traveling consultant under my belt. Both LGA and JFK are some of the worst airports I've ever been through. JFK is getting better but only a few months ago I and a few other passengers delayed at LGA were counting mice to pass the time. To add insult to injury, LGA has frequent and lengthy delays that get worse throughout the day... and most of their vendors close at 8:00 or 9:00. So you're just stuck... staring at mice .

What terminal were you at? I would assume delta in both cases? AA is not that bad at LGA from an appearence standpoint, it is small, but thats about it. The food court is not bad. Of course they close 8-9..why would they stay open any later? Most flights are gone by then.
 
n710ps
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:07 am

Two words for you PORT AUTHROITY!
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
thesandbender
Posts: 7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 22):
What terminal were you at?

I primarily fly AA (grew up in Dallas... friends and family work for AA... I have no choice Big grin) but I have also flown CO, DL and FL numerous times and I would rate all the terminals as just bad. Note I'm referring to the facilities maintained by the PA and not the service provided by the airlines themselves or their efforts in keeping their gates (although I'll have to admit the mice incident was at a AA gate). Regardless, I've never had any problems with the staff of any of those airlines. LGA just needs to be bulldozed and redone and it's not the fault of the airlines.

Honestly NYC should just go the Asian route and build a new local hub in the bay with a high speed rail to JFK. JFK can stop doing regional and focus on international and you can build the new local hub to focus on turning over passengers as quickly as possible.

It will never happen but it's a fantastic idea if I don't say so myself  rotfl 
 
aajfksjubklyn
Posts: 458
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:21 am

That is a trip..the mice. I know they are doing some construction so that could be why. Its unavoidable. Soon as construction begins...things begin to run around. As long as they are not on the planes (Although they have been)...

 Smile
 
isitsafenow
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:28 am

I have said this before and will repeat it. LGA needs another runway. Note the figure of pax in and out of that airport.
All off two runways. You can renovate the terminal and concourses with a TEN BILLION dollar improvement but your
are still running all those pax off two runways. And that spells bottlenecks and delays.
If Osaka can built runways in the water, NYC and the FAA can build another runway in Flushing Bay.
nuff said.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
I wonder if the flow into LGA could successfully be split amongst JFK and EWR...!?

You have four options, not all of which are mutually exclusive.

1. no build- leave everything like it is. LGA stays. Hope that a combination of real high-speed rail, regualation (either imposed from the government or self) of capacity (bigger planes, colaboration) and opeations (slots, less frequency) can deal with some of the growth.

2. Change JFK into an airport with four parallel runways (13/31) rather than two sets of crossing runways. Fill in the bay to the south and demolishing of hangars and other facility would have happen for the north runway. Plenty of space between the runways east of the current terminal 4 for expansion. LGA would have to close due to airspace. Would supply a considerable capacity increase I imagine. Anyone care to venture how much?

3. Expand EWR accross the turnpike eastwards onto Port of Newark owned land. EWR could then have four paralell runways. The substantial port activities would have to be moved. Might be some operational challenges involved due to a bridge.

4. Build a new airport. As far as I can tell the only sites would be way out in New Jersey at least 50 miles from the city. This would be too far and in the wrong direction to replace LGA. +

Another possibility is an off-shore airport in the Long Island Sound at a point between New Rochelle and Rye to the north and Prospect and Matinecock Points on Long Island. This could accomodate 6 paralell runways and hundreds of gates. High-speed rail could easily reach Grand Central or Penn Station in 20 minutes. LGA and JFK would be closed to commercial operations The eastern third of JFK could be retained for general aviation. Proceeds from the development of LGA/JFK would go helping to pay for this new airport. The Japanese and Hong Kong have proven the technology.
 
soon7x7
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 27):

All good ideas...especially filling in Jamaica bay, can't eat the clams from there anyway...The reality is what we see is what we get,snails pace construction as moneys here in the states always seem to fall short of their mark, so an increase in all respective fees,parking, tolls runway usage etc, always imposed, but money never get to it's intended destination.They have names for this but I'll remain gentlemanly.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 28):
All good ideas...especially filling in Jamaica bay, can't eat the clams from there anyway...The reality is what we see is what we get,snails pace construction as moneys here in the states always seem to fall short of their mark, so an increase in all respective fees,parking, tolls runway usage etc, always imposed, but money never get to it's intended destination.They have names for this but I'll remain gentlemanly.

Even here in Norway we some graft and corruption. Large construction projects always do.

What I think the US lacks, and has probably lacked since JFK, is a visionary leader and a can do attitude. Money of course is another issue. Destructive, rather than constructive, pursuits seems to be the order of the day. Perhaps Hillary Clinton, for all her faults, will be a bit more inclined towards funding infrastructure projects.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:29 am

here is my proposal:

Big version: Width: 1106 Height: 602 File size: 1952kb
Proposal for JFK...Environmentalists..have fun!
 
D950
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 28):
They have names for this but I'll remain gentlemanly

I won't they are called politicians, which is usually a synonym for lying, thieving, dirt bag.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
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STT757
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 25):
That is a trip..the mice. I know they are doing some construction so that could be why

I was eating with my Wife at a restaurant in the LIRR section of Penn Station, behind my wife I observed "Rats" scurry from the back to the kitchen, climb across the preparation stations before finally taking a break in the Snapple Machine. I put my fork down, grabbed my Wife who did not see what was going on behind her and left.]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:01 am

I used to fly to LGA every two weeks. Occasionally to EWR. EWR isn't too bad with the sky train and connection to New Jersey Transit. My only complaint was that is was a long walk from the AC gate to the Red Carpet Lounge (you had to leave security and reenter security down the next arm). Cab fare from Manhattan and into the city was very expensive. AC service to LGA was more frequent and I knew staff at the airport which made life easier. (The AC Concierge's at the time). I finally gave up waiting for cabs in the queue. It was always rediculously long. So I either took the bus into Grand Central or would bite the bullet and arrange for a car.
 
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STT757
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RE: New York Airports A Mess...WHY?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 27):
4. Build a new airport. As far as I can tell the only sites would be way out in New Jersey at least 50 miles from the city. This would be too far and in the wrong direction to replace LGA. +

There's a huge plot of open land, thousands of acres of flat land within 3-4 miles of Mid-town Manhattan. It's called the Meadowland, it's in New Jersey. Amtrak's Northeast Corridor run right through it, the Turnpike runs right through it, as does Interstate 80. Check out on Google Earth all the available land between the Meadowland Sports Complex to the North, Kearney to the South, Ridgefield Park to the East and Rutherford to the West. You could easily fit an airport with 4 parallel runways, the environmental impact of building in the Marshlands of the Meadowland are less than building in Raritan bay, Lower New York Harbor or Long Island Sound. Only problem is the New York Politicians would fight it as it would basically put JFK and LGA out of business.

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 27):
Another possibility is an off-shore airport in the Long Island Sound at a point between New Rochelle and Rye to the north and Prospect and Matinecock Points on Long Island

The Long Island Power Authority could not even get a power cable going from Connecticut to Long Island, the State of Connecticut sued LIPA and the State of New York to prevent the cable from being activated. And your going to fill in the sound and build and airport and all the supporting infrastructure (highways etc) where they could not lay a 12in diameter power cable.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757