lovinitflyboy
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:22 pm

BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:55 am

Just saw this on ba.com:

British Airways has announced it is to withdraw services between London Heathrow and Harare from the beginning of the Winter 2007 schedule which starts on Sunday 28 October 2008.

and:

British Airways has announced it is to withdraw services between London Heathrow and Detroit from the beginning of the Summer 2008 schedule which starts on Sunday 30 March 2008.

I know DTW has been talked about, but this was the first i head about Harare!

I guess this will free us some slots at LHR and 767's as well, so where to next?
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 am

So, does that leave BA LHR-ORD connecting to AA to DTW?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 am

UK's CAA reported that DTW-LHR traffic was only 6719 pax in June, down 38% from the year before. BA's flight, the only one from LHR, was apparently a money loser; and, assuming NW gets a few LHR slots for next March, it would continue to lose money unless BA wanted to try a 757.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Lovinitflyboy (Thread starter):
I guess this will free us some slots at LHR and 767's as well, so where to next?

Last year, the usual ORD flight during summer was 2x/B772ER and 1x B744....the B767 replaced the B744 during "off peak" times....this year, after peak season is over (with the 2x B772 and 1x B744), it will be 1x daily each of a B744, B763 and B772 or 2x B744 and 1x B763, depending which day of the week..

Mon/Tues/Thurs/Sat is 2x B744 and 1x B767
Wed/Fri/Sun is 1x daily of B767, B777 and B772...
"Up the Irons!"
 
LHUSA
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
UK's CAA reported that DTW-LHR traffic was only 6719 pax in June, down 38% from the year before.

Wow, I'm surprised the numbers dropped so much! DTW has been so successful for LH, do you think that LH stole away many of those passengers, or? Of course LH has the auto industry to help support the flight, but it is far from the only factor leading to LH's success in the market.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:09 am

On BBC news 24 they claimed BA said the HRE route was very unprofitable due to high costs that are continuing to grow and they were having trouble sourcing jet fuel in Zimbabwe. All passengers booked to HRE after the flight ends will be routed through Johannesburg with Comair.
 
by188b
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:28 am

just seen the same release on UK's teletext service, However the good news is that it is increasing LGW-MCO, LHR-SEA and also increasing LHR to New York (it didnt state if it was JFK or EWR)) and LHR- Washington
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 4):
Wow, I'm surprised the numbers dropped so much! DTW has been so successful for LH, do you think that LH stole away many of those passengers, or?

If you browse the CAA statistics ( http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=90 ), you'll see that a number of US points had year over year declines in June and July, with some apparent improvement in August. Northwest's numbers for DTW-LGW were relatively better than BA's: smaller declines in June and July and a gain in August.

Anyway, it looks as if it was a flat summer for US-UK traffic overall.
 
da man
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:27 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:32 am

Well, since DTW is gone, I guess that the LHR-DTW-IAH service will become LHR-IAH because of the advent of Open Skies. That was probably what was keeping DTW going up until now.
War Eagle!
 
B752OS
Posts: 609
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
UK's CAA reported that DTW-LHR traffic was only 6719 pax in June, down 38% from the year before. BA's flight, the only one from LHR, was apparently a money loser; and, assuming NW gets a few LHR slots for next March, it would continue to lose money unless BA wanted to try a 757.

Is there a way to find out traffic stats for other cities?
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5041
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Da man (Reply 8):
Well, since DTW is gone, I guess that the LHR-DTW-IAH service will become LHR-IAH because of the advent of Open Skies. That was probably what was keeping DTW going up until now.

That and the fact that they will now have to compete with NW on the DTW-LHR route.
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:37 am

I flown LHR-DTW-LHR twice this year, it's a shame to loose it.........

Have been wondering whether a routing like LHR-BWI-DTW or LHR-PHL-DTW would be feasible to avoid dropping DTW, then I realize if they aren't able to fill the plane offering a non-stop nonetheless would do it with a one-stop.......

Sad news
744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 9):
Is there a way to find out traffic stats for other cities?

Look at the link I provided. The CAA provides numbers for domestic and international UK routes by airport.

If you want US details I believe you have to wait at least 3 months for domestic data and 5 months for international data; in addition the interface provided by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics is comparatively harder to use - only one or two steps up from raw SQL language.

For US data, start here: http://www.transtats.bts.gov/databas...1&Mode_Desc=Aviation&Subject_ID2=0
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Lovinitflyboy (Thread starter):
but this was the first i head about Harare!

Zimbabwe is a mess, with a 4 figure inflation rate. Plus I imagine there aren't many business linls to the UK any more since their President doesnt like the UK

Any word on if ATL will move to LHR at a later date?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
CV990A
Posts: 1389
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RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting BY188B (Reply 6):
LHR- Washington

Interesting... any word if it is LHR-IAD or LHR-BWI? Thanks!
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
by188b
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting CV990A (Reply 14):
Interesting... any word if it is LHR-IAD or LHR-BWI? Thanks!

BaStew says on the other thread http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/3617749/ its IAD
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 5):
All passengers booked to HRE after the flight ends will be routed through Johannesburg with Comair.

Who was flying LON/HRE toward the end anyway? I'd imagine it'd be all VFR.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:45 am

No surprise that BA is ditching DTW-LHR... I know someone who is a trans-Atlantic pilot for NW, and he feels that NW moving their LGW ops to LHR is a done deal. In fact, he's heard rumors that NW will transfer all London flights to LHR and end LGW service completely after US/EU Open Skies takes effect due to their limited presence (2x DTW-LGW and 1x MSP-LGW).

As soon as NW moves to LHR, BA's LHR route would have been toast anyway... DTW is a pure SkyTeam hub, through and through. There's just not enough oneworld traffic in DTW to sustain BA service there, not even on a 763ER.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:45 am

Its a shame to see DTW loose such long serving route. I can imaging how we in Houston would feel if we lost KLM after 50 years of service .

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 17):
In fact, he's heard rumors that NW will transfer all London flights to LHR and end LGW service completely after US/EU Open Skies takes effect due to their limited presence (2x DTW-LGW and 1x MSP-LGW).

...slots?
"Up the Irons!"
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
Any word on if ATL will move to LHR at a later date?

None. Im guessing if they had the slots for it they would have announced it. Im sure ATL service will eventually move to LHR, but IAH and DFW will higher priorities for BA.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 10):
That and the fact that they will now have to compete with NW on the DTW-LHR route.

I doubt that is why they dropped it. I think the reason could be traced to Detroits dying economy and minimal business ties with England. BA competes with lots of other airlines on their home turf (ATL with DL, IAH with CO, and DFW with AA to name a few). All of those cities' metro areas are about the same size as Southeastern MI (maybe a little larger but not by much now), but you dont see BA flee them becuase they are afriad of competition.
It is what it is...
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
...slots?

It's been mentioned here many times that SkyTeam carriers at LHR (mainly AF and KL) will be reallocating slots to NW, CO, and DL for LHR services. Also, SkyTeam carriers will get T4 after BA leaves for T5, which should make things easier.

[Edited 2007-09-19 21:00:59]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 11):
Have been wondering whether a routing like LHR-BWI-DTW or LHR-PHL-DTW would be feasible to avoid dropping DTW

Given no rights will be granted for the BWI-DTW or the PHL-DTW it would make more sense to do LON-Canada-DTW to carry local passengers using 5th freedom rights
 
jetskipper
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:50 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:04 am

Now that BA has dropped Detroit, how many US cities has BA had service only to lose service? I can think of 5: Detroit, San Diego, Charlotte, New Orleans and Pittsburg.
 
thestooges
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:46 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:21 am

I can remember the last time I flew into DTW which was now a very long 7 years ago, there was a BA 747-400 there, and then they started using a 777-200, then the 767-300 and now it's getting cancelled.
Withe exception of 9/11 I would assume that air travel overall would increase over time even for a route like DTW-LHR, not start with a 747-400 and now be reduced to nothing. Lufthansa has doubled its flights, Air France still flies theirs (I might be wrong about this), why has BA had such a tough time on this route?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition !!
 
fruitbat
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:34 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
Zimbabwe is a mess, with a 4 figure inflation rate.

Things are apparently improving though, it's below 7000% now Big grin

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7001135.stm

On a serious note, Zimbabwe is currently economically crippled and my best wishes go to anyone affected in whatever way by these issues. I fully understand BA's reasons for pulling out I hope they return soon as trade is a key enabler to help the country rebuild....although regime change may be needed for this to happen....

Loved their win over the Aussies in the World Twenty20 though!

just my  twocents 
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7460
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:36 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7002827.stm

Another link on BBC.

How many flights are Comair doing from JNB.
 
albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:37 am

Well now with DTW gone i guess they could use that slot for ATL so i guess that will be moved to LHR now.
 
mutu
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 23):
Now that BA has dropped Detroit, how many US cities has BA had service only to lose service? I can think of 5: Detroit, San Diego, Charlotte, New Orleans and Pittsburg

In fairness, Charlotte and Pittsburgh were US routes flown under BA colours when BA had a strategic investment in US. San Diego similarly was an inherited route when BA acquired BCAL. I dont recall BA flying to New Orleans so cant comment.

Its easy to create a negative impression but against this you need to recall that over the past 10 years flights have increased to New York (up to 12 daily now) LAX x3, Mia x3, SFO x2, SEA x13weekly, PHL x2, ORD x3 BOS x3 IAD x24 weekly, IAH x2 etc etc, Denver and Phoenix added, Dallas Atlanta Tampa and Orlando continued etc etc

I dont think there has ever been much O&D on the LHR/DTW route and over much of its recent history it has been part of a connecting routing. Connecting through LHR is now a no no for anyone with a brain (including all the new US carriers moving from LGW to LHR who I wish them and their pax good luck!!) so connecting traffic has reduced and of course the key driver of DTW TATL has been Daimler Chrysler and the USA/Germany traffic which, following the sale of Chrysler back to Americans, will reduce premium traffic on that route...would not be surprised to see LH cut back capacity soon.

Just my 4pence worth
 
mutu
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
Zimbabwe is a mess, with a 4 figure inflation rate. Plus I imagine there aren't many business linls to the UK any more since their President doesnt like the UK

What is fascinating to me is the BA press release states one of the issues as a lack of jet fuel in Zimbabwe. They say they currently have to truck it up from South African airports each day to meet the flight. I suspect other than the lack of traffic (those leaving the counrty cant exactly afford a ticket, and very few Brits are permitted to enter) it is probably just getting too hard to guarantee the service. Its ony 3 days a week on a tatty 767 though and BA still technically will fly to HRE , routing LHR/JNB and then on to the BA 6267 JNB/HRE. This flight operated by MN a franchise and investment partner
 
bennett123
Posts: 7460
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:08 am

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/schedules/public/en_gb

It seems that they are useing a B777. It is not available for other use except for Monday/Tuesday AM, Wednesday PM/Thursday AM and Sunday PM. I suspect that they can make better use of this aircraft elsewhere.

I am sure that Comair can handle anyone flying to HRE rather than JNB.
 
SANFan
Posts: 3694
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:09 am

Hey Detroit, being from San Diego, the scene of the last great US pullout by BA, I can feel your pain!

But, I do have the perfect solution to our problems: BA starts flying a Speedbird LHR-DTW-SAN and back! Simple, huh?

bb
 
bartond
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:59 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:34 am

Wow, looking at the link with the UK-US traffic stats, what is the big reason for the 32% drop in pax flying LGW-ATL? Did DL or BA reduce a bunch of capacity on the route? That's a huge percentage drop for that route.
 
BCALBOY
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:52 am

]In fairness, Charlotte and Pittsburgh were US routes flown under BA colours when BA had a strategic investment in US. San Diego similarly was an inherited route when BA acquired BCAL. I dont recall BA flying to New Orleans so cant comment.[/quote]

I agree completely with the sentiment of your reply to JetSkipper , but just for the record......

IIRC CLT and PIT were taken over from US AIR by BA and were operated by BA Aircraft and BA crews.
They were not USAIR a/c and crews flying in BA colours. When sopecial relationship with US ended
CLT/PIT were no longer significant to BA as they didn-t haven-t didn-t have sufficient point to point eseciallp Premium traffic and without the US feed would have been loss makers . US then started the routes in their own right which they would probably have done anyway even if BA hadn-t pulled off .MIA is 2 x daily.

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 27):
Well now with DTW gone i guess they could use that slot for ATL so i guess that will be moved to LHR now.

If BA had wanted to move ATL to LHR from S08 , I-m sure they would have announced this at the same time
as IAH and DFW . BA could easily fund the slots by dropping a short-haul frequency.
I think BA would like to keep ATL as LGW as long as possible ,it doesn-t have the same volume of connecting traffic as IAH/DFW ( especially Oil related ) and it helps keep a reasonably sizes Longhaul operation at LGW.
This is likely to change , however , if /when DL aanounce a move of ATL to LGW.
 
edina
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:51 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 33):
They were not USAIR a/c and crews flying in BA colours.

Explain this pic then   ..............

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1228901/L/

US crews did operate the PIT/CLT/BWI - LGW as BA for approx 2 years with the aircraft fully painted and most of the crew were in BA uniforms (only when there were last minute crew changes would they be in US uniforms). US operated these in the period before the 3 routes became part of the BA mainline flying programme on 767-300s.

[Edited 2007-09-20 00:22:12]
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 33):
MIA is 2 x daily.

They told MIA officials that they will be going 3x daily in October 2008, though that's so far off that things can change quite quickly. The early notification was because of a coming gate crunch at MIA, with the temporary closing of Concourse A.
a.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting Bartond (Reply 32):
Wow, looking at the link with the UK-US traffic stats, what is the big reason for the 32% drop in pax flying LGW-ATL? Did DL or BA reduce a bunch of capacity on the route? That's a huge percentage drop for that route.

It might be why BA doesnt seem in a big rush to get ATL service moved to LHR.
It is what it is...
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1485
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 11):
Have been wondering whether a routing like LHR-BWI-DTW or LHR-PHL-DTW would be feasible to avoid dropping DTW, then I realize if they aren't able to fill the plane offering a non-stop nonetheless would do it with a one-stop.......

As I mentioned in the "BA and DTW" thread, DTW has historically been paired with another city by BA. Over the years, it has been a tag from Montreal, Boston, Philadelphia, and Washington; for several years in the early 1960s, it was served nonstop, with a tag to ORD. Only in the last few years has DTW been served nonstop, without a tag.

Historically, Pan Am also served Detroit as a tag via either Boston or Washington. I'm sure the reason BA didn't go back to serving DTW as a tag is because they didn't want to compete against an NW nonstop.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
Quoting Bartond (Reply 32):
Wow, looking at the link with the UK-US traffic stats, what is the big reason for the 32% drop in pax flying LGW-ATL? Did DL or BA reduce a bunch of capacity on the route? That's a huge percentage drop for that route.

It might be why BA doesnt seem in a big rush to get ATL service moved to LHR.

It's a poor performing route. I wouldn't be shocked if its just dropped, though a move to Heathrow could change it's fortunes. But is it worth using a Heathrow slot on?
a.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 38):
It's a poor performing route. I wouldn't be shocked if its just dropped, though a move to Heathrow could change it's fortunes. But is it worth using a Heathrow slot on?

Honestly I wouldnt think so. Looking at all of the markets that have LGW service on BA: ATL, DFW, and IAH always struck me as the ones that would have LHR service at some point. BA has already come out saying that DFW and IAH will have LHR service. The fact that ATL hasnt been anounced or even the possibility of ATL-LHR on BA hasnt been announced says to me that (even though it might not be a poor preformer, I dont know) that DFW and IAH are more important and preform better than does ATL.
It is what it is...
 
Summa767
Posts: 1756
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:39 am

It is a shame, particularly so for Harare.
BA continues shrinking its route network whilst VS expands theirs.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19046
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting Aisak (Reply 22):
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 11):
Have been wondering whether a routing like LHR-BWI-DTW or LHR-PHL-DTW would be feasible to avoid dropping DTW

Given no rights will be granted for the BWI-DTW or the PHL-DTW it would make more sense to do LON-Canada-DTW to carry local passengers using 5th freedom rights

With very rare exceptions, the days of tag-on sectors like that are over. The costs of operating the tag sector will in almost all cases exceed any additional revenue they might get, and obviously on a domestic tag sector like LHR-PHL-DTW, half (or more) of the seats on the tag sector would be empty. Apart from being able to pick up a few (probably very few) YYZ/YUL-DTW local passengers if they operated via Canada, it wouldn't be a very attractive service. The local transborder passengers wouldn't be able to use US customs/preclearance at YYZ unless they wanted to make all the through LHR-DTW passengers deplane at YVR, claim their bags, and go through US preclearance before continuiing the flight, Would mean a very long stop and not a very competitive product.

And BA's traffic LHR-YYZ/YUL is strong enough to fill the aircraft most of the time without having to add any additional stops.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 21):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
...slots?

It's been mentioned here many times that SkyTeam carriers at LHR (mainly AF and KL) will be reallocating slots to NW, CO, and DL for LHR services. Also, SkyTeam carriers will get T4 after BA leaves for T5, which should make things easier.

...and if AF/KL give 2-3 slots to each carrier, what prime time slots are they going to hold (regardless of revenue sharing)?
"Up the Irons!"
 
hotelmode
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:31 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 40):
BA continues shrinking its route network whilst VS expands theirs.

Yes, but BA is making plenty of money and knows its network. VS is making very poor returns given the current trading conditions. They have started several routes that are proving expensive white elephants.
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 27):
Well now with DTW gone i guess they could use that slot for ATL so i guess that will be moved to LHR now.

I think IAH, which currently operates as a tag to the DTW flight, will be the first priority to get an LHR slot.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 37):
Historically, Pan Am also served Detroit as a tag via either Boston or Washington. I'm sure the reason BA didn't go back to serving DTW as a tag is because they didn't want to compete against an NW nonstop.

Well, DTW has been a poor performing route for a while. It was downgraded to a 767 then had the IAH tag added last year to try and turn around its fortunes. Nothing helped.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
da man
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:27 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:02 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 44):
I think IAH, which currently operates as a tag to the DTW flight, will be the first priority to get an LHR slot.

Houston has more than just that on BA:
We have two daily 772s to LGW along with the 763 on the IAH-DTW-LHR route. It will be interesting to see if the IAH route is upgraded to a 744 and 772 daily from LHR once Open Skies comes into effect.
War Eagle!
 
hotelmode
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Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:31 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:03 am

Its i think the first interesting effect of "open skies". Certainly in recent years DTW was served because of Bermuda 2 not in spite of it. If slots become available at the London airports we may see some of the Uk regional - US hub flights that the majors have started migrating south in search of yield.
 
hotelmode
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:31 am

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting Da man (Reply 45):
We have two daily 772s to LGW along with the 763 on the IAH-DTW-LHR route. It will be interesting to see if the IAH route is upgraded to a 744 and 772 daily from LHR once Open Skies comes into effect.

Its a double daily 772 to start with. But i suspect you'll be right long term.
 
LH423
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RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Da man (Reply 45):
Houston has more than just that on BA:
We have two daily 772s to LGW along with the 763 on the IAH-DTW-LHR route. It will be interesting to see if the IAH route is upgraded to a 744 and 772 daily from LHR once Open Skies comes into effect.

I realize that there are more flights to London, but the IAH-DTW-LHR was IAH's only LHR link.

And...as I expected, BA has announced that IAH and DFW will be moving to LHR effective the Summer 2008 schedule.

BA0195 LHR IAH 1135 1545 777 daily
BA0197 LHR IAH 1300 1715 777 daily

BA0193 LHR DFW 1200 1600 777 daily

So, it looks like ATL will have to wait for the time being. I do admit that DFW is a shock. It's generally been regarded as one of the weakest US destinations. I also think that BA will upgrade one of the IAH flights to a 744 once traffic picks up and business travellers are made aware that they no longer need to transfer airports to get to the oil destinations.

LH423

[Edited 2007-09-20 02:17:42]

[Edited 2007-09-20 02:19:06]
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thomasphoto60
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: BA Withdraws From HRE And DTW!

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 48):
BA0193 LHR DFW 1200 1600 777 daily

How are BA's DFW loads? I have read here in the past that they are not that great.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"