SAA201
Topic Author
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SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:07 am

According to this article: http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=&fArticleId=4041217, SAA will switch 4 of its daily JNB-DKR-JFK flights to route via ACC instead. No date is given for the start of this service.

Anyone with more info?
 
andz
Posts: 7624
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:10 am

I heard something on the radio today about SAA changing routes into Africa as part of restructuring, along with lounge changes, but no details. Wait until next week and things will change again.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
louA340
Posts: 321
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:23 am

Why would they go back to Accra though? I thought after their JNB - ACC - IAD route didnt work out that they would stick to DKR
RyEng
 
Reggaebird
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:56 am

They are returning to Accra because Delta is doing very well on the JFK Accra route and SAA sees a revenue opportunity. I have read that Delta's loads are above expectations. SAA are thinking "why leave that whole market Delta?".
 
N77014
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:13 am

What is the status of traffic rights ex ACC for either SA)">DL or SA to JFK and JNB?
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 3):
SAA are thinking "why leave that whole market Delta?".

That is a fine strategy so long as they can also sell ACC-JNB.....why sell JFK-ACC, and displace a JFK-JNB pax unless you can also sell ACC-JNB? Someone at SA better be good ar RM.
 
N383PA
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:01 am

SAA used to fly the JNB-ACC-JFK route in the past but didn't have any traffic rights between ACC and JFK. It looks like the government in Ghana changed there mind. SAA is currently flying to ACC with A340 from JNB.A few of them flights go via ABJ.

As SAA is flying the daily JNB-IAD service via DKR anyway I guess this opportunity to fly a certain amount of JFK services via ACC is an additional money maker for them.

I think they dont go daily JNB-ACC-JFK as their wouldn't be any US flights to DKR as the IAD-JNB service goes nonstop.
It could be that SAA didn't get any more frequencies from the government in Ghana to go daily on this route.
 
SA7700
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting N383PA (Reply 6):
SAA used to fly the JNB-ACC-JFK route in the past but didn't have any traffic rights between ACC and JFK

SA started their JNB-IAD service via ACC - I was on one of those flights. SA never flew JNB-ACC-JFK. They used to fly JNB-SID-JFK and at some stage flew JNB-LOS-JFK (codeshare with the defunct Nigeria Airways) in order to provide service between the USA and Nigeria. Thereafter, SA switched their stopover for the JFK-flight from SID to DKR.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
CXA330300
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:18 am

Maybe they're also trying to nip DL-as DL has joined the competition with their ATL-DKR-JNB flights. Are they doing well enough to compete with SAA?
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
rdwootty
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:32 am

Just as an aside, thus route would not have been possible in the 1970's as SAA had a strict colour rule.No Coloured person could be seated next to a white person. In additon this was also a Clipper route for PANAM . Just for your info
 
Flighty
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5):
That is a fine strategy so long as they can also sell ACC-JNB.....why sell JFK-ACC, and displace a JFK-JNB pax unless you can also sell ACC-JNB? Someone at SA better be good ar RM.

 yes 
 
PanAm747
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:11 am

Quote:
In additon this was also a Clipper route for PANAM.

PA also operated this route as JFK-ROB-JNB for a time, a long with an extensive West African network.

The problem with SAA is the announcement of routes and then withdrawing before they start - Chicago is a prime example.

While there is a good need for NYC-South Africa, I would like to see SAA concentrate on IAD - that's the Star Alliance hub, and a good place to get feed.

And I agree about the ACC-JFK traffic rights - did something change in Ghana?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 8):
Maybe they're also trying to nip SA)">DL-as SA)">DL has joined the competition with their ATL-DKR-JNB flights. Are they doing well enough to compete with SAA?

SA)">DL has already upgraded this route from a 763 to a 764 and is talking about putting a 777 on the route I think the real question is whether SA can compete with SA)">DL; the latter is in much better financial shape and has airplanes to xpand throughout its growing African network.
 
AA767400
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:16 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
SA)">DL has already upgraded this route from a 763 to a 764 and is talking about putting a 777 on the route I think the real question is whether SA can compete with SA)">DL; the latter is in much better financial shape and has airplanes to xpand throughout its growing African network

Only a DL supporter would say something like that. SA can hold it's own in Ghana even with their present situation which is far better than what DL went and is still going through.
"The low fares airline."
 
SA7700
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:32 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
And I agree about the ACC-JFK traffic rights - did something change in Ghana?

Quoted directly from the article. Link already provided by OP: SAA pursues growth plan across African skies.


The national carrier has secured air traffic rights to take passengers on from Accra, Ghana's capital, to New York. It was denied these rights last year, although travel agents in Ghana had expected it to be a popular route. As a result, SAA routed its flights from Johannesburg to New York by way of Dakar.

As usual the media has one or two facts wrong. SA was actually flying JNB-ACC-IAD-ACC-JNB at the time. I am not aware of any ACC-JFK-ACC plans by SA last year.


Sean, if you are out there, how does G0 feel about this development or are you guys going to concentrate on LGW for the time being?


Rgds

SA7700

[Edited 2007-09-20 07:55:58]
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
Alitalia744
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Interesting.

Will become even more so soon I would imagine...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
panamair
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 13):
SA can hold it's own in Ghana even with their present situation which is far better than what DL went and is still going through.

Correct about what DL went through, but not what DL is "still going through". Last I checked, DL has been making profits...SAA has not.
 
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PA110
Posts: 1897
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RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 13):
Only a DL supporter would say something like that. SA can hold it's own in Ghana even with their present situation which is far better than what DL went and is still going through.

Actually, the situation is quite the opposite. SA's current management has risen to its highest level of incompetency, and can't really progress any further without some fresh ideas, and new managers. DL collected several years of passenger data at SA's expense (basically handed to them on a silver platter) during the years SA operated out of ATL in marketing partnership with DL. DL easily recognized SA's incompetence and grabbed the first opportunity they could, given their finances at the time, to start their own operation, capitalizing on their domestic feed, and SA's inability to negotiate its way out of a paper bag.

SA is moving the transit stop from DKR to ACC because their JFK-JNB service isn't performing up to expectations. SA must rely almost entirely on the JFK O&D market, because SA's current marketing partner (UA) lacks any significant feed to/from JFK. Almost all North American traffic is routed over IAD, which has much better feed.

Second, despite large numbers of Senegalese living in the New York Area, there has never been enough traffic to justify daily service between JFK and DKR, even if it is only to "top-off" the JFK-JNB loads. Plus, there is virtually no local traffic at all between DKR and JNB. SA can't fill the flight all the way to JNB, and when they fill it just to DKR, they can't fill the empty seat between DKR and JNB. Not a very profitable way to operate a route if you ask me.

Third, DL has siphoned off quite a bit of business from SA, due to the strength of their presence in the NY area, their corporate and leisure marketing, and their frequent flyer brand loyalty.

The truth is SA continues to hemorrhage cash at an alarming rate, and Khaya continues to fiddle while Rome burns. SA is grasping at straws, because they currently lack the leadership to do much of anything else.

[Edited 2007-09-20 10:52:49]
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
andz
Posts: 7624
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: SAA To Fly To New York Via Accra

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 17):
currently lack the leadership

Interesting little article about another SAA "leader" Coleman Andrews in this week's Financial Mail.

http://secure.financialmail.co.za/07/0921/fox/mfox.htm
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...

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