LAXDESI
Topic Author
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:17 am

Air India Starts Talks With Boeing, Airbus. Eyes A380 and 748.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...OWJONESDJONLINE000258_FORTUNE5.htm

Quotes:
State-owned Air India has begun talks with Boeing Co. (BA) and Airbus to buy new planes including the A380 superjumbo, people familiar with the development said Friday.

In July, Air India said it plans to buy about 60 new passenger jetliners over the next few years and aims to start the selection and purchase process by mid- August. "The airline is in touch with both Boeing and Airbus on the types of aircraft available and what will be required in the industry in future," said a senior airline executive, who didn't want to be named.

"There is a committee in the airline which is discussing the ratio of planes to buy, how many small capacity and short haul and how many ultra-long range. It includes the A380 and the 747-800 model," the airline executive said.

In a move to modernize their aging fleets, Air India ordered 68 Boeing jets, worth over $11 billion at list prices in December 2005, while Indian Airlines placed a $2.2 billion order in February 2006 with European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. (5730.FR) unit Airbus, for 43 planes.

Consultancy firm Ernst & Young India forecast in a recent report that the fleet size of Indian carriers will more than triple to 700 from 235 by 2012. India's aviation industry is expected to grow by more than 25% annually over the next few years as a rapidly expanding economy boosts incomes, making it an attractive market for local and international carriers.
 
LY777
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:23 am

My guess is that Airbus will win the order, this is obvious
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 1):
My guess is that Airbus will win the order, this is obvious

It is possible that AI will not order A380 or B748, but will place orders for narrowbody--A320 series for domestic, B737 series for AIX, a LCC subsidiary of AI--and order additional 787s, and perhaps 772LR or A350s.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10002
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:35 am

I would have thought that both aircraft have a place in AI's fleet as they have vastly different capacities; 787/777-200, B747-800, A380-800 would work well if they are in need of a VLA. Time though will of course tell.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:38 am

I think they should concentrate on A32X and 787s for now, with Indias skies opening up i dont think there is need for VLAs.

Karan
 
BlueSky1976
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:50 am

This one will go to 747-8i. I doubt AI will need anything bigger in their fleet.
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:16 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:36 am

Its India, with a billion people and huge growth in aviation, so I think the best choice would be A380's. They could get a good deal on A350's too if ordered at the same time. The A350-1000s would would be a good match with their 27 787-8s they have on order. Airbus has a good shot at this order.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 6):
Its India, with a billion people and huge growth in aviation, so I think the best choice would be A380's. They could get a good deal on A350's too if ordered at the same time. The A350-1000s would would be a good match with their 27 787-8s they have on order. Airbus has a good shot at this order.

Problem is the infrastructure doesn't exist to support the A380.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:45 am

Well it could be decided on which they can get 1st. If they get in back of line for A380, it could mean that the B747-8i can be had before A380. I don't know. Just food for thought.

I myself am hoping for further orders of 747-8i. I'll wait and see like we all should.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13762
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 5):
This one will go to 747-8i. I doubt AI will need anything bigger in their fleet.



Quoting LY777 (Reply 1):
My guess is that Airbus will win the order, this is obvious

Fight, fight, fight!

Such 180 degree diametrically opposed confidence!  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
mahan
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:43 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:17 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):

Problem is the infrastructure doesn't exist to support the A380

Even though the outlook looks bleak, Indians manage to find a way to make things happen.. everything appears chaotic, unorganized, cannot get anything done.. but sometimes, things happen in chaos.. Airports are being modernized Cochin, BLR, Hyderabda, Delhi might be able to support 380 in a year or 2.
Airlines I have flown - IC, 9W, KF, AI, LH, BA, LX, CO, DL, UA, SQ, MH, AA
 
Nimish
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:02 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Problem is the infrastructure doesn't exist to support the A380.

That's not a problem at all - by the time AI and the 59 committees make up their mind and place the order, EK, LH etc. would have been flying 380s to India for years - and forced the infrastructure in place Big grin
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:14 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 11):
That's not a problem at all - by the time AI and the 59 committees make up their mind and place the order, EK, LH etc. would have been flying 380s to India for years - and forced the infrastructure in place Big grin

Plus barring the EY testbeds the next available factory built A380 slots are only starting from mid-2011

Karan
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21035
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:24 pm

Would be great to see the A380 in AI livery!!! Just think all those Palace windows!!!
 
Ivo
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 1:49 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:09 pm

They can get early A380 positions via ILFC

Ivo
 
KennyK
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:08 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:36 am

Don't forget Kingfisher have already ordered A380s and Emirates will certainly be flying them into Indian airports within a couple of years.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 2454
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
I would have thought that both aircraft have a place in AI's fleet

Agreed - along with the likes of LH and BA, I think AI is one carrier that could effectively fly both models.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Would be great to see the A380 in AI livery!!! Just think all those Palace windows!!!

Yeah - now that would be cool!!
 
797charter
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:32 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Problem is the infrastructure doesn't exist to support the A380.

Maybe they can borrow some stairs from Kingfisher, when they have finished boarding?



 embarrassed 
Keep it clear of the propellers
 
FCKC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:08 am

I guess the A330 has a good chance here , referring to the comments the CEO declared some months ago , and the beginning of the lease of 2 Ex Novair machines.
Is an ideal replacement for A310s , before the 787 arrival.
Sure will do a good job on the AI network.
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 18):
Is an ideal replacement for A310s , before the 787 arrival.

If 787 deliveries go as planned , AI would get almost 14 787s by 2009 end, when is the earliest 330 slot availalbe--i assume after 2009.

Ofcourse leasing is a different ball game, but with govt procedures in India--the leasing companies have to approach AI/IC rather than the other way around.

Karan
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 6):
Its India, with a billion people and huge growth in aviation, so I think the best choice would be A380's.

 redflag Another widely held misconception! India has a large population, but only a fraction of that population has any hope of affording regular air travel. It will be decades before India (or China) approaches the size of Europe or North America in terms of the aviation market.

 point AI may choose the A380, but not because they expect a billion people as potential O & D traffic.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23081
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:16 am

How is AI's JFK-LHR-BOM/DEL services doing? I recall that they used to be really strong, but I think some folks said traffic has started to fall off rather precipitously.

If it is still strong and growing, an A380 would be perfect. If it is stable (at 744 loads) or falling, then the 747-8I or the 777/A350 might be the more prudent model.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:23 am

By the time this works it's way through the bureaucracy, both lines will have been closed.
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:28 am

Even if Air India orders the A380 or even the 747-8, they will not be able to fill them. The market in India is now filled with several airlines, all competing on the same flights. There is no need for any one airline to have a VLA. The 777-300ER is the largest aircraft Air India needs.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13366
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 20):
Another widely held misconception! India has a large population, but only a fraction of that population has any hope of affording regular air travel. It will be decades before India (or China) approaches the size of Europe or North America in terms of the aviation market.

Both countries have a booming "middle/profesional class" for whom air travel is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. I've flown several internal flights in India this year - the fares were low and the flights were full. Just look at the number of planes on order in both countries and that the buying spree in both shows no sign of slowing down.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2253
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 24):
Both countries have a booming "middle/profesional class" for whom air travel is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. I've flown several internal flights in India this year - the fares were low and the flights were full. Just look at the number of planes on order in both countries and that the buying spree in both shows no sign of slowing down.

It's not quite as simple as that.

Yes wealth is growing, but capacity is too and there are serious concerns about the long term viability of several of the airlines in India. You've now got both Jet and Kingfisher using (or planning to use) high capacity aircrafton routes that just three years ago had just one or two operators.

The infrastructure issue remains critical and can't just be brushed aside with the "Airlines will force the change through sheer use" argument. Infrastructure comes before planes. You wouldn't drive a car into the Sahara and expect governments to begin building massive highways just for you, would you? Hmmm, maybe some here would, come to think of it.
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 24):
Both countries have a booming "middle/profesional class" for whom air travel is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. I've flown several internal flights in India this year - the fares were low and the flights were full. Just look at the number of planes on order in both countries and that the buying spree in both shows no sign of slowing down.

True, it's just that the numbers entering that afluent class are nowhere near as large as people assume. Certainly not a billion! Taking the population of India and inferring that as a reason they must need A380's is entirely without merit.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
User avatar
sammyk
Posts: 1560
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 25):
You wouldn't drive a car into the Sahara and expect governments to begin building massive highways just for you, would you? Hmmm, maybe some here would, come to think of it.

If it was just a few people on occasion then no. If thousands started taking the same route then yes, I'd say a road would be built.

Unfortunately in India things are reactive instead of proactive.
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4834
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 26):
the numbers entering that afluent class are nowhere near as large as people assume.

Well, please define "affluent" for us and suggest a credible number. Even if you only include a quarter of the population, that's close to the total population of the USA - where by no means all of the 300M people could be considered "affluent". Even if you only accept 10% of the population of India as "affluent", that's a number equal to the total combined populations of Hong Kong and Singapore.

Any way you cut it, there are millions of people in India with ample disposable income to spend on air travel.
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:11 pm

India's aviation sector is expected to record about 120 million passengers for the fiscal year 2007--compare that to 700 million passengers for USA. Indian aviation is growing at an annual rate of 28%--domestic at 32%, and international at 17%.

Even with a slowdown in growth due to infrastructure constraints, I expect Indian aviation numbers to be at least 500 million passengers by 2020 as this requires only a 12% growth over the next 13 years. Indian economy is expected to grow at 7-9% range for the next 15 years, and growth in aviation sector for a developing country should be about a factor of 1.3 to 1.5 of GDP growth.

BTW, HYD and BLR will have new airports by April 2008, and both BOM and DEL are undergoing modernisation/expansion. Most of the secondary airports in India do not currently have capacity issues, which bodes well for continued growth.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:22 pm

I'm hoping for a 748i order to give the 748i program a boost and perhaps provide some momentum along with the recent TG order.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4834
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: AI In Talks With A And B; Eyes A380 And 748

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 30):
the recent TG order.

Don't count your chickens. There's no order yet.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 767333ER, Alexa [Bot], Baidu [Spider], chornedsnorkack, CrimsonNL, David_itl, Dutchy, Glidesloper, Google [Bot], Ronaldo747, scbriml, SyeaphanR, TK787, woodcutting and 234 guests