aclco
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A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:51 am

Airbus confirms on Flight global the switch to A380's style nose for A350XWB and other design specs like AlLi nose section, A380 nose landing gear bay, six windows cockpit glazing, metallic frame crossbeams and composite main frame.

Aircraft concept will be frozen in October 2008, I think there's a lot of room for other significant changes looking to what happened in the recent past..

Here's the article:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-a380-style-nose-for-a350-xwb.html
 
dl767captain
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:54 am

that looks really strange to me, the nose gear looks too far up
 
speedmarque
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:58 am

That is one ugly plane now!
 
6yjjk
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:59 am

"Concept freeze" - I take it that's not the same as "design freeze"?

Without wanting to open up a whole can of of worms, and ignoring all the previous iterations... does it usually take over a year to nail down the basic concept? Not trying to troll here - just looking for a general indication of how long it usually takes.
 
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N328KF
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:01 am

So Airbus has taken A350 XWB's design cues from an aircraft that looks like it has an extra 21st chromosome?

Is this really the most aerodynamic approach for a smaller airframe?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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shamrock350
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:02 am

I prefer the original XWB nose but it doesn't look that bad.

 
WINGS
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Aclco (Thread starter):
Airbus confirms on Flight global the switch to A380's style nose for A350XWB and other design specs like AlLi nose section, A380 nose landing gear bay, six windows cockpit glazing, metallic frame crossbeams and composite main frame.

What a disappointment.  Sad I was hoping tha Airbus would have managed to come up with something better.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 5):
I prefer the original XWB nose but it doesn't look that bad.

That photo actually does not look that bad. Hopefully Airbus will tweak it up a little.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
legoguy
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 6):
That photo actually does not look that bad. Hopefully Airbus will tweak it up a little.

I believe the drawing in the article is just flightglobal's own conception drawing, and not from Airbus itself, so I would not expect it to look that bad.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
Rheinbote
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:20 am

"The change addresses concerns over possible corrosion risks between metallic frames and carbonfibre"

The Al-Li nose section makes perfect sense then...  sarcastic 

Very relieving to think that this probably ain't the last design iteration of the nose.  crossfingers   duck 
 
FAEDC3
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 4):
So Airbus has taken A350 XWB's design cues from an aircraft that looks like it has an extra 21st chromosome?

Is this really the most aerodynamic approach for a smaller airframe?

The article says that they dropped the original concept nose for this one as it performs better aerodynamically. I would think that Airbus´ engineers had chosen performance and discarded looks... I don´t love it either, but well, I still have the hope that the final design differs in some way from the Flightglobal´s concept drawing  Sad
 
jtdieffen
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:51 am

Does this mean that Boeing supporters get to make jokes at Airbus's expense now regarding the dropping of the sleek look in favor of more traditional shapings, like many A supporters still do regarding the 787s transition from shark to (mostly) regular old jetliner?  Wink
Regards! JDief
 
ikramerica
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 8):
The Al-Li nose section makes perfect sense then...

So the cockpit might rust off and fall off during flight. So what? It won't be a valid concern until Dan Rather finds out about it!  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:57 am

Does this mean they're going to place the cockpit too low in proportion to the rest of the nose? I have the perfect name for it.

Harbour porpoisejet



[Edited 2007-09-21 22:04:03]
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
DAYflyer
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:13 am

Well at least you wont be able to confuse it with a 787 anymore.
One Nation Under God
 
keesje
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:27 am

this could help speeding up cockpit design, reducing costs..

cockpit commonality could be a XWB selling point for A380 operators..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ikramerica
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):
this could help speeding up cockpit design, reducing costs..

cockpit commonality could be a XWB selling point for A380 operators..

Or, it might be a selling point for A350 operators to buy that A380 in the future.

The 767 and 777 shared the same nose section to speed up cockpit design and reduce costs. It's been done before.

I'm glad to see Airbus doing what is right for them, rather than just copying the 787 in every way, which it looked like they were doing. Boeing went to 4 windows instead of six, and Airbus copied, but I'm not convinced there is any great reason to only have 4 windows, and always wondered why Airbus just decided "me too" on that one. Not to mention the shape of the nose, which was a stylistic choice by Boeing that they had to "make work" in the wind tunnel. Why copy that?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:41 am

Alas, aerodynamics trump aesthetics once again.  Sad
 
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autothrust
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:42 am

Daammn! Terrible news. This looks so horrible.  vomit   cry  What a dissapointment. The other nose was so beatiful.

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 8):
Very relieving to think that this probably ain't the last design iteration of the nose.

I hope you are right.

Quote:

He adds that strength requirements for birdstrike protection were partly behind the decision to adopt a metallic nose structure. "If we went for a composite structure we'd have to reinforce the area above the cockpit with titanium which is expensive,

So? How did it Boeing ?  Angry I'am i right or i'am right, this ugly Al nose will add more maintenance work(corrosion) then a CFRP nose?

Airbus is still not back, they are to conservative to less innovative, then they were 20 years ago.
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 17):
How did it Boeing?

I am guessing additional CFRP layers, as was done with the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer when the initial design failed a bird-strike test.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 17):
How did it Boeing ?

I suppose Boeing spent the money for titanium framing. Airbus didn't say they couldn't do it...only that it was more expensive. dollarsign 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
glidepath73
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:32 am

What a shame to see an AC enter service in 2013, which has a nose like AC's had already 50 years ago!
I really hope AIRBUS comes up with a good compromise between something more modern and good aerodynamic figures at the end.

Regards,

Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
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autothrust
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
am guessing additional CFRP layers, as was done with the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer when the initial design failed a bird-strike test.

Well thanks interesting, we might say that to Airbus this wouldn't be so expensive. It really seems they don't know that. I admire the innovation Boeing is showing with the 787.

I highly doubt now the A350 will ever be in the same ligue in terms of maintenace cost compared to the 787.
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
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moo
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 4):
Is this really the most aerodynamic approach for a smaller airframe?

Aerodynamics scales both up and down very well - one of the reasons you can wind tunnel test models.

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 17):
I'am i right or i'am right, this ugly Al nose will add more maintenance work(corrosion) then a CFRP nose?

I personally do not think you are right.

Airbus already has significant CFRP structures in contact with Al-Li structures:

- A380 tail section
- A380 rear pressure bulkhead
- A380 center wing box
- A380 upper deck floor beams

I personally do not think maintenance of the nose section and cabin section join is going to be an issue at all.

But thats just my humble opinion.
 
united350
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:22 am

Damn...I was really an A350 fan (hence the user name).

On the other hand, if they can give a similar nose to the NSR (if this nose can be modified for a narrowbody) it'll give them complete commonality from the bottom up (even more than they have now).
 
777236ER
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 22):
Aerodynamics scales both up and down very well - one of the reasons you can wind tunnel test models.

Aerodynamics don't scale well. You have to keep the Reynold's number and Mach numbers the same for dimensional similarity.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
caminito
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:35 am

I must say in advance that the smallest of the concerns regarding the A350 progress should refer to its looks! The main question to be addressed is: how far the overall concept and design has advanced during the last 6 months?

Referring to the Flightglobal article, I have following questions/comments regarding its statements:

Quote:
The cockpit fuselage section will be constructed from aluminium lithium, with Airbus deciding against adopting a one-piece carbonfibre structure that it had been evaluating previously....
the nose reprofile was made partly for improved aerodynamics and also to enable the overhead crew rest to be installed further forward and eliminate any encroachment in the passenger cabin....
"If we went for a composite structure we'd have to reinforce the area above the cockpit with titanium which is expensive"....

Isn't this a, even if relatively small, partial reversal of composite structures use instead of Alu-ones?
And does the I assume not to large titanium extra-price constitutes reason enough to justify this new change?

Quote:
A key change is the switch from metallic to carbonfibre fuselage frames, although the fuselage crossbeams remain metallic. "These could also be switched to carbonfibre, but we're still running trade-off studies,"

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this again a reversal as mentioned above, but this time
not so small?? And if the crossbeam switch is made later, can this be done without adapting the remainder of the fuselage, meaning additional redisign work? .

Quote:
The change addresses concerns over possible corrosion risks between metallic frames and carbonfibre," says McConnell.

Doesn't this apply for the crossbeams too?

Quote:
Airbus remains on target to reach its "freeze of aircraft concept" in October 2008. The first version of the three-model XWB family to enter service will be the 314-seat -900, in mid-2013

As the issue of the crossbeams is still open, could it happen that instead switching them to carbonfibre, Airbus finally decides for a barrel fuselage and in such case, could the above dates be maintained?
.
Any news regarding how Airbus is dealing with a GE-Engine option?
Is the RR-Trent Engine already fully defined?
 
Vega9000
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:51 am

This is the price of efficiency? One ugly plane after another?
If spotters were considered weird people because they love to take pictures of beautiful aircraft, imagine when they are seen as people who love to take pictures of ugly aircraft...


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Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.
 
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moo
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 24):
Aerodynamics don't scale well. You have to keep the Reynold's number and Mach numbers the same for dimensional similarity.

Apologies then.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
Isn't this a, even if relatively small, partial reversal of composite structures use instead of Alu-ones?

No, the nose section was never firmly declared to be composite.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
And does the I assume not to large titanium extra-price constitutes reason enough to justify this new change?

Titanium is both expensive to buy and expensive to work with, if you can avoid both for little penalty then its a good thing.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this again a reversal as mentioned above, but this time
not so small??

Again no, no reversal here.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):

Doesn't this apply for the crossbeams too?

Maybe, but not in such a big way since there are less contact points.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
Any news regarding how Airbus is dealing with a GE-Engine option?

No.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
Is the RR-Trent Engine already fully defined?

No. Theres no reason for it to be defined for another 2 years yet.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
And if the crossbeam switch is made later, can this be done without adapting the remainder of the fuselage, meaning additional redisign work?

My understanding is that the metal crossbeams are used as part of the electrical system ground (earth).
Changing those to composites would complicate the electrical system and add weight.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
As the issue of the crossbeams is still open, could it happen that instead switching them to carbonfibre, Airbus finally decides for a barrel fuselage

I see no chance that Airbus will go for barrels. I believe they are looking at co-curing the frames with the fuselage panels, which is far easier with panels than a full barrel. If they succeed in that, the result ought be at least comparable in weight and assembly complexity to Boeing's barrels...it might well prove superior.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
caminito
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:18 am

Thanks for your comprehensive comments.

Quoting Moo (Reply 27):
No, the nose section was never firmly declared to be composite

Is this now firm and definitive?

Quoting Moo (Reply 27):
Titanium is both expensive to buy and expensive to work with, if you can avoid both for little penalty then its a good thing.

I assume (.correct me if necessary) that Boeing had to solve the same problem and therefore also had to accept a cost increase. They seem to have swallowed it probably because they considered the penalty substantial.

Quoting Moo (Reply 27):
Maybe, but not in such a big way since there are less contact points.

Understood. Meaning that the problem is not totally solved

Quoting Moo (Reply 27):
No. Theres no reason for it to be defined for another 2 years yet.

Understood. To avoid nasty surprises, as sooner this happens the risk diminishes

Your opinion regarding my question if barrels are still on the horizon in spite such probably would cause an EIS delay?
 
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moo
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Caminito (Reply 29):

Is this now firm and definitive?

Maybe.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 29):
I assume (.correct me if necessary) that Boeing had to solve the same problem and therefore also had to accept a cost increase. They seem to have swallowed it probably because they considered the penalty substantial.

Boeing has hedging on titanium prices and longterm deals with significant suppliers to maintain low pricing for themselves.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 29):

Understood. Meaning that the problem is not totally solved

The problem has been solved time and time again - see my post above about CFRP and Al-Li on the A380.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 29):
Understood. To avoid nasty surprises, as sooner this happens the risk diminishes

What risk?

Quoting Caminito (Reply 29):
Your opinion regarding my question if barrels are still on the horizon in spite such probably would cause an EIS delay?

I do not believe Airbus will go with barrels for the A350, but if they did and they made the choice in the next 6 months, I do not forsee an EIS problem as Airbus already has experience spinning barrels (contrary to popular A.net belief - read up on the ALCAS and FUBA-COMP research programs, one of which has produced a 4:5 scale Dassault Falcon CFRP barrel fuselage).
 
dl767captain
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:08 am

any good photo shop people out there that can put this nose on a full picture?
 
797
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:35 am

UGLY!

The only reason this A350 was perhaps sexier than the 787 was because of its incredible nose design... Now it's just a fake copy of the dreamliner... too bad
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
tdscanuck
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 3):
"Concept freeze" - I take it that's not the same as "design freeze"?

Without wanting to open up a whole can of of worms, and ignoring all the previous iterations... does it usually take over a year to nail down the basic concept?

"Concept freeze", I would suspect, is freezing the gross aircraft configuration (length, width, capacity, range, etc.). Design freeze is when you have all the bits figured out exactly and you can start building them. From inception to basic concept could well be more than a year.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):
cockpit commonality could be a XWB selling point for A380 operators..

How valuable would that be when you couldn't have a common type rating anyway?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 24):
Quoting Moo (Reply 22):
Aerodynamics scales both up and down very well - one of the reasons you can wind tunnel test models.

Aerodynamics don't scale well. You have to keep the Reynold's number and Mach numbers the same for dimensional similarity.

Aerodynamics do scale well, in general, but you do have to compensate for Reynolds number mismatch. There are only a few wind tunnels on earth capable of simultaneous Mach and Reynolds number matching and they're used very sparingly because they're one or two orders of magnitude more expensive than normal tunnels. You just use them to check Reynolds number scaling and do all your other testing in a Mach-matched tunnel without Reynolds number match. Neither Boeing nor Airbus have Reynolds number matching tunnels.

Quoting Moo (Reply 30):

The problem has been solved time and time again - see my post above about CFRP and Al-Li on the A380.

Can we say it's been solved when the plane hasn't seen service yet? I fully believe that Airbus thinks they have it solved but it's going to take 10-20 years of service to know if they were actually right.

Tom.
 
kaneporta1
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:04 am

The image from FI does the A350 no justice, personally, I think the new nose looks a lot better.
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
ORDfan
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:38 am

I think the cockpit windows on the A380 look kind of small; but maybe that's just because the plane is so big? Does anyone know what the visibility is like for these planes (all modern airliners, A & B) when seated in the pilots' seats? I've always thought that visibility out of the two front 747 windows also looked very limited, given how high the instruments rise into the windows, but then again, I've never sat in the pilots chairs, so they might be able to see a lot better than flight deck pictures would indicate. The A380 flight panel seems equally as high. However, the 787 cockpit windows look noticeably larger than on those of, say 777s -- at least from the flight deck photos that are widely circulated....
 
glacote
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 24):
Aerodynamics don't scale well. You have to keep the Reynold's number and Mach numbers the same for dimensional similarity.

Could you please elaborate on that? What happens to each if I double all dimensions? Thank you...
 
ikramerica
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting ORDFan (Reply 35):
I've always thought that visibility out of the two front 747 windows also looked very limited, given how high the instruments rise into the windows, but then again, I've never sat in the pilots chairs, so they might be able to see a lot better than flight deck pictures would indicate.

That's because the instruments are more important than the view...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
caminito
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:42 pm

Moo:
I do not understand to what you refer saying that the problem has been solved repeatedly. The corrosion issue is only partially solved! Possibly you refer to something else ??

Lets put things in sequence;

Airbus stated in the article regarding the swith of the fuelage from Alu to Carbonfibre:

Quote:
The change addresses concerns over possible corrosion risks between metallic frames and carbonfibre," says McConnell

he further clarifies that:

Quote:
although the fuselage crossbeams remain metallic. "These could also be switched to carbonfibre, but we're still running trade-off studies,"

I commented, referring to the fact that the crossbeams, a part of the fuselage, were not
switched, that the corrosion risk was only partially eliminated

Quoting Caminito (Reply 25):
Doesn't this apply for the crossbeams too?

Moo agrees with restrictions to my statement:

Quoting Moo (Reply 27):

Maybe, but not in such a big way since there are less contact points.

Therefore I re-commented:

Quoting Caminito (Reply 29):
Understood. Meaning that the problem is not totally solved

Finally, as written on the beginning of this post, I do not understand your response:

Quoting Moo (Reply 30):

The problem has been solved time and time again - see my post above about CFRP and Al-Li on the A380.

???
 
AirRyan
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:54 pm

The A380's nose is the ugliest thing on the aircraft and so to take that ugly grille from it and put it on the A350XWB in what was otherwise a sleek design, well that's just disapointing; I'd change my A350XWB order for a 787 the next day.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting Glacote (Reply 36):
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 24):
Aerodynamics don't scale well. You have to keep the Reynold's number and Mach numbers the same for dimensional similarity.

Could you please elaborate on that? What happens to each if I double all dimensions? Thank you...

If you double the dimensions (and keep everything else the same) you double the Reynolds number and keep the same Mach number. Reynolds number scales linearly with the dimensions of the model. Mach number isn't changed by the model dimensions.

Quoting Caminito (Reply 38):
Moo:
I do not understand to what you refer saying that the problem has been solved repeatedly. The corrosion issue is only partially solved! Possibly you refer to something else ??

I think Moo means that the problem of mating aluminum alloys to CFRP has been solved, which is true. You just have to put an insulator in between (often fiberglass) to prevent galvanic corrosion. Obviously, if you don't have any aluminum to CFRP interfaces, that also gets rid of the problem.

Tom.
 
MD-90
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 33):
How valuable would that be when you couldn't have a common type rating anyway?

Transition training time is lessened.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:56 pm

What a dissappointment...  brokenheart 
Well... I guess that means sayonara to A350 as one of my favourite plane designs...  Sad  Sad
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
hb88
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 37):
Quoting ORDFan (Reply 35):
"I've always thought that visibility out of the two front 747 windows also looked very limited, given how high the instruments rise into the windows, but then again, I've never sat in the pilots chairs, so they might be able to see a lot better than flight deck pictures would indicate."

That's because the instruments are more important than the view...

 Smile

The view from the 747 flight deck has always struck me as quite restricted. I've also thought the actual physical space of the 74 cockpit is really quite tight and seems very confined compared to say the 767/777 or particularly the awesome greenhouse-like flight deck of the 757!

The 380 has a spacious cockpit and good vis as do the Airbus narrowbodies.

I'm personally not that much of a fan of the 380 nose design (except from some angles where it looks fantastic - weird), but I think it will actually look better on the A350. Either way, in terms of commonality of design, using the same design makes a great deal of sense. Other good examples are the 767 nose section on the 777.
 
Areopagus
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:31 pm

What is the difference between those "crossbeams" and stringers?
 
mbj2000
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:15 am

RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 34):
The image from FI does the A350 no justice, personally, I think the new nose looks a lot better.

Me too. The old nose while nice was too much futuristic space ship style. The new nose reminds me a little bit of the mad dogs and this gives me the impression of a tough airplane  Smile
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
columba
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:40 pm

No please don´t. The A350 was a very good looking design until now  Sad
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Rheinbote
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:03 pm

The way the 'cross-beams' are depicted in the FLIGHT drawing, they would have to be called 'stringers' more properly. But Al-Li stringers on a CFRP skin are unadvisable from the standpoint of material/fabrication/assembly cost, strength per weight, thermal expansion issues, fatigue, and corrosion. I'm pretty sure neither Airbus nor Boeing would even remotely consider a solution as depicted by FLIGHT.

Could it be that the FLIGHT artist rather should have called-out and drawn 'Al-Li floor beams'? In conjunction with metal seat tracks, these could form part of a metal current return network.
 
777236ER
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:48 pm

Quoting Glacote (Reply 36):
Could you please elaborate on that? What happens to each if I double all dimensions? Thank you...

If you double all the dimensions the Reynolds number doubles. The Reynolds number is the ratio of the inertial forces to the viscous forces, so with a higher Reynolds number the flow tends to be more turbulent, will transition to turbulence more easily. The higher inertial forces in the flow will be important in boundary layer measurement and as a consequence drag calculation.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Trijetman
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RE: A380's Style Nose For A350XWB Confirmed

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:02 pm

What is keeping Airbus form using curved cockpit windows?

Why would a rounded nose with rectangular flat areas be more aerodynamically efficient than a smooth, flush layout (Boeing 787, but also various other models from Bombardier, Embraer and the classic DH Comet / Caravelle design...)?

Can anybody lighten me up on this point?

Regards,

Trijetman