Indy
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WN Cargo = Success?

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:08 am

This may have been brought up in the past but is cargo the real reason for WN success? Their loads are never spectacular yet they continue to beat the industry. Well I was just looking up IND traffic stats and I happen to glance at the cargo stats and saw something interesting. While WN accounts for only 14% of the passengers served at IND they account for a third of all cargo shipped via the passenger carriers. That has to be a huge deal for them. Do they carry for the USPS?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
chris133
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:54 am

No WN does not carry for the USPS anymore. But they do carry a lot of cargo from most of their stations. Cargo tends to yield a lot better returns then the mail ever did.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:35 pm

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
This may have been brought up in the past but is cargo the real reason for WN success?

Real Reason, No, but it doesn't hurt WN.

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
Their loads are never spectacular yet they continue to beat the industry.

Low Loads doesn't mean they arent making profits or lower profits, just like High load factors doesn't mean airlines are making money, the biggest rule for profit never, look at the load factors for passengers  Wink

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
Well I was just looking up IND traffic stats and I happen to glance at the cargo stats and saw something interesting. While WN accounts for only 14% of the passengers served at IND they account for a third of all cargo shipped via the passenger carriers.

Yes WN has big contracts with a lot of cargo folks, and it helps their bottom dollar in terms of revenue for most stations.

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
Do they carry for the USPS?

As answered, No.

Alex
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srbmod
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:33 pm

When you consider that in most cases, someone shipping cargo on an airline is paying more to ship that item (or items) than most passengers paid for a seat. They're also paying a higher for the faster service a passenger airline offer over someone like FedEx, UPS, or DHL. Since the bulk of those three shipping companies flights are in the overnight hours, if at say 9 am you find out you need something delivered from MCO to SAN by 3 pm Pacific Time, your only choice is to utilize the cargo division of someone like DL, WN, AA, UA, etc., as they offer enough flights during the day to get your item delivered there in time. For the most part, airlines will leave bags behind before they'd leave cargo behind.
 
Avianca
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
For the most part, airlines will leave bags behind before they'd leave cargo behind.

well these are really new news to me... and sorry but absolutely not true in 99% of the cases.... exceptions are human remains, maybe some kind of perishable cargo...
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N77014
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:37 pm

Cargo is big business for any carrier; the fact that WN offers so much coverage out of MDW, LAX, OAK means they get a large share of business from the freight forwarders.
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PanHAM
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:56 pm

WN actively sells cargo. The "Born to ship" poster is famous. Besides it is fact that, for most of the other big 7 except NW, cargo is a step child.

Another big advantage ois WNs non hubbing strategy. They offer point to point servics and on many routes they are much faster than FX or UPS, same day instead of overnight at reasonable rates.
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chrisnh
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:31 pm

I was up at the Manchester (NH) Airport interviewing the station manager there for Southwest. I was writing a chapter on air cargo for a book that we released called 'Manchester's Airport: Flying Through Time.' Anyway, I wanted to get a take on air cargo from their perspective in addition to 'just' going over to see the FedEx and UPS A300s that come in here daily.

And I found that air cargo via Southwest is quite lucrative! Lobsters galore! Flowers for Valentine's Day. Car parts. Human organs! All sorts of things. In truth, Southwest could get stuff to the west coast faster than even FedEx or UPS could even with connecting flights. I was pretty impressed with learning about all the stuff that boards (or gets off of) Southwest's 737s at Manchester. Seafood, in particular, was a big thing...bound for west coast cities.

Chris in NH
 
srbmod
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
well these are really new news to me... and sorry but absolutely not true in 99% of the cases.... exceptions are human remains, maybe some kind of perishable cargo...

Then it would probably surprise you that in some cases, even the mail take priority over passenger bags.

It's cheaper to leave passenger bags behind than to pay the fines levied by the USPS for delaying certain types of mail.

While it costs an airline to forward left behind baggage, a lot of those costs are offset by the money that cargo brings in.
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:29 am

I'm curious about NWA Cargo Division. How much is the Cargo contribute into NWA's financial? And, with all those 747F flying into USA, do NWA transfers cargo with connecton flights (only if it fits into the smaller plane's cargo).
 
chris133
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 8):
Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
well these are really new news to me... and sorry but absolutely not true in 99% of the cases.... exceptions are human remains, maybe some kind of perishable cargo...

Then it would probably surprise you that in some cases, even the mail take priority over passenger bags.

It's cheaper to leave passenger bags behind than to pay the fines levied by the USPS for delaying certain types of mail.

While it costs an airline to forward left behind baggage, a lot of those costs are offset by the money that cargo brings in.

Thats why WN stopped carrying mail because of the this the post office wanted unreasonable services for the price, and they wanted it to take priority above everything excepts bags.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
your only choice

Not true-see FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight.....
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/sameday.html
Can't find a link for Next Flight on a quick look...
Go big or go home
 
chris133
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 11):

Not true-see FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight.....
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/sameday.html
Can't find a link for Next Flight on a quick look...

I looked up UPS same day service from BWI to BUF and they wanted $719 for a 1lbs envelop with no DV but WN wanted $67 and could get it there in 2 hrs as opposed to 11 hrs. (this was airport to airport not any deliveries)
 
aa61hvy
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:24 am

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 12):
looked up UPS same day service from BWI to BUF and they wanted $719 for a 1lbs envelop with no DV but WN wanted $67 and could get it there in 2 hrs as opposed to 11 hrs. (this was airport to airport not any deliveries)

Didn't mention cost  Wink
Go big or go home
 
GuitrThree
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 12):
looked up UPS same day service from BWI to BUF and they wanted $719 for a 1lbs envelop with no DV but WN wanted $67 and could get it there in 2 hrs as opposed to 11 hrs. (this was airport to airport not any deliveries)

So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?
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aa61hvy
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14):
So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?

Most airlines have some kind of agreement with the cargo airlines, they carry some of ours, we carry some of theirs.
Go big or go home
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:32 am

When I worked for ASA last year, I would see a lot of stuff from the cargo companies; FedEx, UPS, DHL, you name it. Plus the countless Dash stuff. Most airlines really rely on their "cargo division". Delta does pretty well from what I saw when I worked in ATL. Always saw boxes marked "live fish", flowers was a big thing, would see a lot of the other airline's AOG stuff (but that's something totally different from this). This doesn't deal with cargo but baggage; but anyway, one time when I was in the bagroom, I saw this HUGE surf board that was all neatly bubble taped and wrapped laying up against the wall by the recheck desk. Well I asked the guy what flight it had missed because I was willing to run it out to the next flight. He said it came off an LAX-ATL flight and the guy wa going to CHS. Well needless to say, they couldn't get the damn thing to fit in the RJ bin and there was no mainline service at the time so they called Delta and let them know and they called him (he was already in South Carolina). Turns out, he had bought the board in LA and was brining it back with him. Fit just fine in the 738 on it's way to ATL but never would have fit in our bin. Well Delta ended up icking up the board later that day and I'm guessing the shipped it to him.
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lrdc9
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 7):
And I found that air cargo via Southwest is quite lucrative! Lobsters galore! Flowers for Valentine's Day. Car parts. Human organs! All sorts of things. In truth, Southwest could get stuff to the west coast faster than even FedEx or UPS could even with connecting flights. I was pretty impressed with learning about all the stuff that boards (or gets off of) Southwest's 737s at Manchester. Seafood, in particular, was a big thing...bound for west coast cities.

I was at BWI last week and was listning to Southwest Ops, someone was bringing bone marrow.
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burnsie28
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:28 pm

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 9):
I'm curious about NWA Cargo Division. How much is the Cargo contribute into NWA's financial? And, with all those 747F flying into USA, do NWA transfers cargo with connecton flights (only if it fits into the smaller plane's cargo).

Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise) NW cargo has transported things from hugh wheels to elephants and beyond.
 
concordegboad
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 11):
Not true-see FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight.....
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/....html

I have done this before.

The only thing that had the FedEx name on it was the airbill. A local courier showed up in a Ford Ranger, picked up my boxes, and told me what WN flight it would be on with the departure and arrival information.

FedEx tracking was right on top of it too!
 
N200WN
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc

Sure about that? You wouldn't believe the business that WN does with Dell Computers out of AUS.
 
PanHAM
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:35 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):

Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise) NW cargo has transported things from hugh wheels to elephants and beyond.


HEY GO SIOUX!!!!

What is TRUE cargo? Do you mean freighter aircraft? NWA uses these mainly on international to Aisa. Besides that, every plane can carry cargo and every cargo shipment from 1 lbs to 100 tons is tue air cargo.

The integrators offer same day but as has been mentiond already, use other carriers for the line haul. A customer is well advised, to use W or other mainline airlines for that, or the help of a local courier company at both ends. They can achive transit times the integrators imply cannot match. Or, has has been mentioned as well, they use these sources and then bill the customer 712 $ when he could get the same or better result for a fraction of that amount.
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swatpamike
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:31 am

Hello All

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 11):
FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight



Quoting Chris133 (Reply 12):
UPS same day service

We ship both FedEx same day and UPS Sonic same day on Southwest.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14):
So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?

 checkmark 

Quoting N200WN (Reply 20):
You wouldn't believe the business that WN does with Dell Computers out of AUS.

Have onloaded many Dells in Tampa and Orlando out of our planes.

Cheers

swatpamike
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise) NW cargo has transported things from hugh wheels to elephants and beyond.

Since NWA has retired some A320 -- why don't they convert those planes into Cargo Fleet and use it for connection flights to their final destination in USA?

Quoting N200WN (Reply 20):
Sure about that? You wouldn't believe the business that WN does with Dell Computers out of AUS.

I have seen Ramp Crew loaded at least 25 Dell Computer Boxes into WN's cargo in HOU -- in fact, on my flight to BWI. So I can imagine my plane cargo was full with Dell Computers and baggages.

Dave
 
chris133
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:41 am

RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14):
So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?

FedEx DHL, UPS, Bax all ship at least some packages on other airlines.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise)

I guess you have never seen AUS in the morning after Dell has dropped off. I will say its an art form packing 200pcs of Dell computers in the bins of a 737 thats already full. Or for that matter 5000lbs of live crabs that really don't want to be there in the first place. But if you really want to see the freight the WN moves go o LAX or BWI around mid/late November right before the shopping crunch. You'll see exactly how much a 737 can hold.
 
PanHAM
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RE: WN Cargo = Success?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 23):
Since NWA has retired some A320 -- why don't they convert those planes into Cargo Fleet and use it for connection flights to their final destination in USA?

because it is cheaper to truck air freight to the final destination.

The other reasons are - the planes might belong to a lessor, there is no A320 conversion program in place yet, it would not make any economocal sense for a mainline, long haiul freight carrier, so set up a short / medium haul cargo system in the US in competition with DX and UPS plus the other, smaller firms.
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