flyboyaz
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US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:47 am

They look pretty cool. Certainly an improvement over what we have now!

http://www.usairways.com/envoy

Anyone know if they changed out the interiors of the ETOPS 757's from ATA? Wondering what the Envoy seats on those are like.
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sxf24
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:51 am

Three different seats on three different fleets.

Sounds like a winner to me.
 
captaink
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 1):
Three different seats on three different fleets.

Sounds like a winner to me.

Be positive dude. They are getting the 767s up to speed. Isn't that what everybody wanted? So what's the problem now? I am sure sooner or later their transatlantic 757s will get updated.
There is something special about planes....
 
halls120
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 2):
They are getting the 767s up to speed.

LOL, not compared to their competition.

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
USAFHummer
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Thread starter):
Anyone know if they changed out the interiors of the ETOPS 757's from ATA? Wondering what the Envoy seats on those are like.

They took out rows 6 and 7 of Envoy on the A330's and put those seats in the transatlantic 757's...3 rows of Envoy in the 757's...
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flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
LOL, not compared to their competition.



Quoting Flyboyaz (Thread starter):
Certainly an improvement over what we have now!
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flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 4):
They took out rows 6 and 7 of Envoy on the A330's and put those seats in the transatlantic 757's...3 rows of Envoy in the 757's...

Oh ok....didn't know that....and the coach seats look like the new 767 seats. Cool....

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 1):
Three different seats on three different fleets.

Sounds like a winner to me.

Looks like 2 different seats in 3 fleet types!
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
Cactus739
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 2):
Be positive dude

That's a concept foreign to most people on here. Gotta be negative about each and every thing...

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
LOL, not compared to their competition.

And who's seats are those ?
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
USAFHummer
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 7):

And who's seats are those ?

Looks like United's new biz seats...

http://www.suitedreams.united.com/
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malaysia
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:25 am

This seat is good, looks simpler and a true LCC idea. US wants to pack as much as they can in the plane rather than all these new flashy seats that other airlines offer.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
flymd
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:31 am

I guess it is an improvement, but overall, that is a pretty pathetic "new" premium class seat. I hope their bz. class flights are cheaper.
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TUNisia
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:10 pm

Another joke from the sandcastle... when will they learn!
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
sxf24
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 2):

Be positive dude. They are getting the 767s up to speed. Isn't that what everybody wanted? So what's the problem now? I am sure sooner or later their transatlantic 757s will get updated.

LMAO. Have you ever flown US out of PHL?
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:26 pm

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 11):
Another joke from the sandcastle... when will they learn

Please enlighten us Mr. armchair CEO exactly how you can fix the J class to be to your liking while not pissing off your US East pilots trying to come to an agreement on a contract, as welll as paying for all the new A320s, 321s and 330/350's on order.
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UnitedFirst
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:49 pm

Are those IFE devices removable? They don't look like they're built into the seat.

Smart idea (armrest IFE holder) – but poor design (ugly).
 
TUNisia
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 13):

Please enlighten us Mr. armchair CEO exactly how you can fix the J class to be to your liking while not pissing off your US East pilots trying to come to an agreement on a contract, as welll as paying for all the new A320s, 321s and 330/350's on order.

My liking? Shouldn't you be worrying about the elite pax who are supposed to pay for this joke of a "product?" Oh wait, they've already left en masse for CO/DL/AA. How is this new "product" competitive? Do you really think it's good enough for someone to say to themselves "yes, I'd love to fly US and transit through PHL on my way to Europe." I'd wager most people would rather fly TATL in economy on a major INTL airline than with US (J or Y) any day.
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Alitalia744
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 13):
Please enlighten us Mr. armchair CEO exactly how you can fix the J class to be to your liking while not pissing off your US East pilots trying to come to an agreement on a contract, as welll as paying for all the new A320s, 321s and 330/350's on order.

Too little too late. A good number of US's elites have already status matched to AA, DL and CO.

Yet the sandcastle continues to play....wasn't there a work-stop of some sort today?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
g4resagent
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 15):
Oh wait, they've already left en masse for CO/DL/AA

And fly DL and connect through ATL? I don't think so...
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting G4resagent (Reply 17):
Oh wait, they've already left en masse for CO/DL/AA

And fly DL and connect through ATL? I don't think so...

I gotta say, I'd take ATL over PHL any day of the year.

Anyway, considering I've always found US's envoy prices cheaper than other premium products for transatlantic travel, this new seat is pretty darn good for the money.
Good goes around!
 
jlbmedia
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:22 pm

The new Envoy seats seem adequate. Remember that this is a L.C.C. Product, and with that in mind, they are OK. For me its all about the price. How dose it compare to the non-L.C.C. carrier. If it is significantly cheaper they may have a hit on their hands. If the prices are comparable. Then BANG THEIR DEAD!
JLB54061
 
Alitalia744
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting G4resagent (Reply 17):
And fly DL and connect through ATL? I don't think so...

Hate to tell you, but there is a decent portion that have moved from US to DL.

In fact, most airlines have picked up elite members recently as a result of a mass exodus from US.

Hard to admit it isn't it...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
sxf24
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:43 pm

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 19):
The new Envoy seats seem adequate. Remember that this is a L.C.C. Product, and with that in mind, they are OK. For me its all about the price. How dose it compare to the non-L.C.C. carrier. If it is significantly cheaper they may have a hit on their hands. If the prices are comparable. Then BANG THEIR DEAD!

US is far from an LCC. True, its their ticker symbol and they have bare bones inflight service, but their pricing structure and business model are far from being competitive with other LCCs.
 
flymd
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:19 pm

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 21):
US is far from an LCC. True, its their ticker symbol and they have bare bones inflight service, but their pricing structure and business model are far from being competitive with other LCCs.

 checkmark 

Agreed. Everytime I check US flights they are no cheaper (and more often more expensive) than the other "legacy" carriers.
Fly the friendly skies of life!. Enjoy every minute.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting FlyMD (Reply 22):
Agreed. Everytime I check US flights they are no cheaper (and more often more expensive) than the other "legacy" carriers.

It's not always about price....WN charges the same as other legacy carriers too...low cost carrier refers to the cost of running the airline.
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sxf24
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:31 pm

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 23):
It's not always about price....WN charges the same as other legacy carriers too...low cost carrier refers to the cost of running the airline.

Oh, you mean not being more efficient but simply paying employees less?
 
whappeh
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:16 pm

Seats look so-so. To be honest, I'm sort of underwhelmed, and this is coming from someone who usually thinks US Airways can do no wrong. I'll have to fly in one before passing final judgment, but I don't think its looking good.
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Sean-SAN-
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:33 pm

Anyone hear the rumor that they're getting these seats second hand from CX as they remodel their international fleet?


 duck 


Just kidding... Welcome US Airways, to the year 2000. Amazing any revenue pax would pay for these seats considering they are hardly ever the cheapest option. Maybe it's all frequent flyer upgrades and nonrevs.
 
hb88
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 9):
This seat is good, looks simpler and a true LCC idea. US wants to pack as much as they can in the plane rather than all these new flashy seats that other airlines offer.

They're similar but look quite a bit smaller than Oasis (Hong Kong LCC) business class seats.

In any case, from the rest-of-the-world point of view, they're, er, 'interesting'!
 
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aloha73g
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:46 pm

To me they look almost exactly like the new AA seats.....which we all know did not seem to go over well. Its still lacking compared to CO, UA and DL.

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Reggaebird
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:46 pm

Regardless of the fact that USAirways is, in theory, a low cost carrier, their product still needs to be competitive with their peers in markets that bring in the most revenue. This "new" seat is already 1 to 2 generations behind the latest offerings from their closest competitors.

In addition to the example from United (in an earlier post), they will face competition from Delta with there latest product below:



and



Reggaebird

[Edited 2007-09-22 09:48:31]
 
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OA260
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:10 pm

Seats look nice but the PTV looks quite small compared to other carriers. Big improvement on the current dirty old Envoy seats though.
 
asuflyer05
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:47 pm

Looks similar to the NW World Business class seat. It just has slightly less recline, though it has about 4 degrees more than the CO BusinessFirst seat.

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 1):
Three different seats on three different fleets.

Sounds like a winner to me.

It seems to work for CO. They have a different seat on the 757 (156 recline, 20in width), 767 (156 recline, 21in width), and 777 (170 recline, 22in width).
 
mark8762
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):
Yet the sandcastle continues to play....wasn't there a work-stop of some sort today?

As far as I know, just another rumor that had no merit. Everything at LAS ran smooth, until the rain and lightening moved in in the evening.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:44 pm

at least they are honest enough to call them "near lie-flat" unlike many other airlines with sloping beds
 
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Coal
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:20 pm

I was going to say it looks like crap, but then I saw they become flat beds (albeit not 180 degrees, but quite a la SQ's Spacebeds) and they also have a privacy cocoon.

They look better than CO's.

Still, US is a crappy airline that might be better if they would stick to the LCC market. And I still hope they get the boot from Star.

Cheers
Coal
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halls120
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 18):
I gotta say, I'd take ATL over PHL any day of the year.

Agree 100%. PHL is the one airport I avoid at all costs.

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 25):
Seats look so-so. To be honest, I'm sort of underwhelmed, and this is coming from someone who usually thinks US Airways can do no wrong. I'll have to fly in one before passing final judgment, but I don't think its looking good.

While the new seats might be a improvement over the current offering, they don't come close to matching their competition. And I don't mean LCC's, which some of the posters here have suggested.

The simple fact is this - when I am considering international travel, US is always my last choice. This less than thrilling improvement is just one of the reasons.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
JGPH1A
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:12 pm

Will these be 5 or 6 abreast in the 767 ? If it's 6 then I'll give it a miss, thanks. Altogether a step forward, but they're still two jumps behind everyone else.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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Stitch
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:15 pm

It's an improvement, but with UA and DL both going to true lie-flat and not the "angled-flat" that CO, NW, and AA have, US is putting themselves in the "second tier" domestics in terms of the seat, at least.

Do the A330's still have the true lie-flat seats in Row 1?
 
nema
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 29):
This "new" seat is already 1 to 2 generations behind the latest offerings from their closest competitors.

And they look it too, especially when you compare alongside your posted pics.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 24):
Oh, you mean not being more efficient but simply paying employees less?

WN has their own set of problems now, because they are the highest paying airline in the country. Not so efficient anymore or they wouldn't be offering early outs.

Quoting Coal (Reply 34):
Still, US is a crappy airline that might be better if they would stick to the LCC market. And I still hope they get the boot from Star.

That's just a stupid comment....can't believe I'm even commenting on it!

Quoting NEMA (Reply 38):
And they look it too, especially when you compare alongside your posted pics.

It's not the airline's intent to be just like all other premium US airlines, if there is such a thing! Our new "Business Casual" approach will be a huge improvement over what we've had the last few years, but it's not meant to copy cat other products.

Enjoy the rest of the discussion....this was meant to be an informative post...but it's just turned to bashing my airline. You can comment all you want, I won't be reading anything in here anymore. This is my last post on airliners.net.

Best of luck to everyone....I did have some fun over the years posting here...take care and happy flying.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 39):
It's not the airline's intent to be just like all other premium US airlines,

Is it the airline's intent to be worse ? If every other carrier is improving their onboard product to compete with international carriers, shouldn't US be doing the same ? It's either that or give up and accept the inevitable, and become an LCC. There really are only 2 choices here.

Differentiation is a valid marketing strategy, but the difference sought should be an improvement over the competition.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Adam T.
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 29):
n addition to the example from United (in an earlier post), they will face competition from Delta with there latest product below:



and



Oh wow, when and on what aircraft will DL be unveiling these seats? T
 
captaink
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 12):
LMAO. Have you ever flown US out of PHL?

I used to work for US, few years ago. What do you think.

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 18):
Anyway, considering I've always found US's envoy prices cheaper than other premium products for transatlantic travel, this new seat is pretty darn good for the money.

[checkmark}

Quoting FlyMD (Reply 22):
Agreed. Everytime I check US flights they are no cheaper (and more often more expensive) than the other "legacy" carriers.

Do you know how LCCs work? the emphasis is more on the cheaper walk up fares. If you purchase your ticket in advance most of the airlines are going to have very similar pricing. I have always wanted to fly B6 for instance, but every time I book and buy, AA offeres a similar or cheaper flight, and I get my advantage miles, so I fly AA. US is quite the low cost carrier, and I think their Envoy product is just fine for what it is, these new seats on the 767s are just fine.
There is something special about planes....
 
WesternA318
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):
Too little too late. A good number of US's elites have already status matched to AA, DL and CO.

But there are still quite a number left...As much as i love flying on CO, I wont hesitate to use US either....
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Spoke2Spoke
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 20):
In fact, most airlines have picked up elite members recently as a result of a mass exodus from US.

Are you sure this is a fact? I've heard that though this summer was a challenging one operationally, bookings remain strong, especially among US frequent flyers.

I wonder if this 'exodus' is more rumor than fact. I'm sure US has lost some elite customers, but an exodus doesn't appear to be the case.
...carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. - Wilbur Wright
 
flymd
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 23):
It's not always about price....WN charges the same as other legacy carriers too...low cost carrier refers to the cost of running the airline.

Not exactly. Legacies charge the same as WN, a bit of a difference. This is why fares generally come down when WN enters a market.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 42):
Do you know how LCCs work? the emphasis is more on the cheaper walk up fares. If you purchase your ticket in advance most of the airlines are going to have very similar pricing. I have always wanted to fly B6 for instance, but every time I book and buy, AA offeres a similar or cheaper flight, and I get my advantage miles, so I fly AA. US is quite the low cost carrier, and I think their Envoy product is just fine for what it is, these new seats on the 767s are just fine.

Question right back at you, do you know how LCCs work? Refer to above comment and below links (and before anybody says it, I know that Wikipedia is not 100% accurate, especially in the airline world, it just gives a rough idea). Having an inexpensive walk-up fare is not the sole requirement for an LCC

The reason that you can get a cheaper fare on AA is because B6 is in the market, not because B6 is meeting AA's fares. Refer to certain US markets where there is minimal true LCC competition (i.e. summer trans-atlantic flights) and you will not find a low fare.

Having said that, my comment did state that the product is sufficient IF the fare is significantly lower.

http://www-econ.stanford.edu/academi...onors_Theses/Theses_2003/Najda.pdf


[Edited 2007-09-22 18:40:04]

[Edited 2007-09-22 18:53:44]
Fly the friendly skies of life!. Enjoy every minute.
 
captaink
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting FlyMD (Reply 45):
Having an inexpensive walk-up fare is not the sole requirement for an LCC

I never said that. I said emphasis is put on that. I should have added especially in markets with competition. Come on don't put words in my mouth.

Quoting FlyMD (Reply 45):
The reason that you can get a cheaper fare on AA is because B6 is in the market, not because B6 is meeting AA's fares. Refer to certain US markets where there is minimal true LCC competition (i.e. summer trans-atlantic flights) and you will not find a low fare.

Did I say anything to the contrary? The guy said, that he found other airlines having similiar prices as did US. Pretty much the same situation I was faced with. My point in a nutshell, is that just becuase it carries the name LCC, don't expect to always find the cheapest fare on them. We are saying basically the same thing dude.
There is something special about planes....
 
PHXmd80
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):
wasn't there a work-stop of some sort today?

There was going to be. Pilots were going to call in sick, but Upper management in Tempe said they had to have doctors notes. Nothing really happened at that point.

Quoting FlyMD (Reply 22):
Agreed. Everytime I check US flights they are no cheaper (and more often more expensive) than the other "legacy" carriers.



Quoting Captaink (Reply 42):
Do you know how LCCs work? the emphasis is more on the cheaper walk up fares. If you purchase your ticket in advance most of the airlines are going to have very similar pricing.

Actually, your both wrong. A Low-Cost Carrier is just that, a Low-Cost Carrier. That just means that they have a smaller cost structure. That doesn't mean they are a low-fare, or discount airline. Unfortunatly, with new numbers recently posted, US cost's are still quite high.
 
Molykote
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RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:33 am

Clearly this doesn't appear to be a product on par with the top tier of business class options.
However, this product does appear to be "adequate" for the airline that US seems to be becoming.

This is not meant as a slam on US (as they seem to be under no misapprehension that they are catering to the luxury market). This new seat appears to offer adequate comfort, adequate means to rest, adequate amenities, and an adequate ability to do meaningful work for most business travelers.

So far, US appears to have made a judgement that is (at least) pretty decent in regards to the current US airline environment. If industry demand is robust (i.e. pushing capacity), US can probably sell these seats for amounts similar to that charged for superior international business products offered by other (US) airlines. When demand tapers, perhaps US can offer lower fares than competitors due to (what might be) a lower cost structure. Another consideration would be to ask what the investment in these seats is worth given the age of the 767s.

All else equal, customers of course want better service and more frills. When all else is not equal (i.e. it costs more), it seems fairly clear that talking the talk and walking the walk are different beasts when it comes to paying for service. Obviously exceptions exist (and probably more on this enthusiast forum than elsewhere), but I am sure that US has done research to arrive at this decision (just as I am sure others have done research in reaching different conclusions).
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sxf24
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

RE: US Airways Unveils New 767 Envoy Seats

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 31):
It seems to work for CO. They have a different seat on the 757 (156 recline, 20in width), 767 (156 recline, 21in width), and 777 (170 recline, 22in width).

CO offers the same seat, with the same features in slightly different widths and reclines.

US offers 3 completely different seats that could be from 3 different airlines.