nycfly75
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:29 pm

As per a post on Flyertalk, Richard Andersen in his weekly phone message to employees stated that DL's latest Int'l expansion will be announced next week. It was also said that he will be at JFK next week to address Delta's JFK Terminal Situation.

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=738669
 
rwsea
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:33 pm

Should be interesting to hear. This seems about the right time. DL made the BOM and ACC announcements last June, but I'm sure this year's announcements were contingent on the outcome of the China proceedings.
 
nycfly75
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 1):
Should be interesting to hear. This seems about the right time. DL made the BOM and ACC announcements last June, but I'm sure this year's announcements were contingent on the outcome of the China proceedings.

China is only the tip of the iceberg  Wink
 
Alitalia744
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 2):

China is only the tip of the iceberg

How can you be so sure?  Wink
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ConcordeBoy
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:42 pm

This gon' be gooooooooood Big grin  thumbsup 
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
nycfly75
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:50 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
How can you be so sure?  

I can't, just a hunch.  Wink
 
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OA412
Crew
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:00 pm

Nice! Can't wait to see what DL has in store for us.  biggrin 
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
sq452
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 5):
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
How can you be so sure?

I can't, just a hunch. Wink

There's another thread on here (can't find it at the moment) saying that Secretary Peters will be in Atlanta on Tuesday to personally tell Anderson that Delta landed one of the China route authorities (or both possibly we don't know the exact details yet).

I just wonder when CVG will get some Int'l expansion Sad
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
Humberside
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 7):
I just wonder when CVG will get some Int'l expansion

For a hub of it's size and status hasnt CVG got a very god European network? Not sure about Canada and Mexico routes but compare its European service to MEM, SLC, STL, PIT, even MSP
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
TruemanQLD
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:44 pm

Maybe an Australian destination.  pray 
 
sq452
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
For a hub of it's size and status hasnt CVG got a very god European network? Not sure about Canada and Mexico routes but compare its European service to MEM, SLC, STL, PIT, even MSP

CVG does indeed have a decent European network (CDG, LGW, FRA, AMS, FCO) but thats really as far as it has gone unfortunately, 5 cities in Europe max. Back in the day, Brussels and Zurich were also in there before AMS and FCO were opened up. Sabena ran the Brussels route with 747's even, and Swissair was a codeshare on the Zurich flights (and they even tinkered putting their own metal on the route at some point I think). Heck, we even had 2x daily London flights at one point, and 2x daily to CDG, one on AF and one on DL.

These routes have been around (at least the first 3) for a while now and have been good money makers for DL. Perhaps expansion to another continent from CVG would work. We get CUN service but only a few frequencies a week so they could possibly take that to daily.

Back in 2000 or so, back when Delta first applied for China route authority (ages ago it seems), they wanted to run 3x weekly service to Beijing from CVG (the application was 7x weekly JFK>PEK service and 3x weekly CVG>PEK service. There were 10 frequencies a week up for grabs). Needless to say it never went anywhere, but if they went for it back then there has to be at least some demand through and from CVG to Asia. Granted, back then it was before 9/11, and before DL "right-sized" the Cincinnati hub, which I still don't even know was a good idea or not. NRT, or ICN would probably get at least SOME decent loads if they went for those.

Here is the article from back in the day on the application: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200002/ai_mark06004355

SLC is going to get European service when CDG opens up for them.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
basrabob
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:11 pm

Is there any clue as to when they will be announcing which services will be moving from LGW to LHR & when they will be happening?
 
exusair
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:30 pm

Shot in the'dark:

3X daily JFK-LHR in March. One 7am flight returning to JFK@10pm.
1 ATL-LHR in April.

JFK-CAI
JFK-AMM
JFK-DKR-NBO
JFK-LYS
JFK-LIS
JFK-CMN
JFK-NRT
JFK-EZE
JFK-GRU WILL INCLUDE CONTINUE TO GIG
JFK-KWI
JFK-LIM


ATL-GLA
ATL-MVD
ATL-LPZ
ATL-MDE
ATL-PVG
ATL-JNB/CPT


Also, a merger with JetBlue. Happy weekend!!!!
 
MAH4546
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:35 pm

Quoting Exusair (Reply 12):
ATL-MDE

Can't happen. All USA-Colombia air frequencies are used up. Hopefully this will change soon, because Colombia might expand their bilateral with the US.

[Edited 2007-09-22 11:38:12]
a.
 
exusair
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:46 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):

Thought I read on another thread that a new bilateral had been signed and that new frequencies are being permitted.

Anyway, just thought that would be a good new route on either new 737-700 or 757 aircraft.
 
MAH4546
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting Exusair (Reply 14):

Thought I read on another thread that a new bilateral had been signed and that new frequencies are being permitted.

It is looking likely, but I'm not sure it is official yet. What is happening is that Barranquilla will be "Open Skies", so anybody can fly to BAQ at any frequencies. This means AA's seven MIA-BAQ flights go beyond the bilatteral, and AA will free up seven USA-Colombia frequencies. However, AA has first dibs to use them, and they will find use for them. I think that USA-Colombia will expand by at least fourteen, maybe 21 frequencies. If there are 21 free ones, Spirit and Delta will probably take them. I could see Delta getting between 7-10 and Spirit getting between 14-18.

Edit: Nevermind. Correct, it has been signed. Good news.

[Edited 2007-09-22 11:52:10]
a.
 
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OA412
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting Exusair (Reply 12):
JFK-GRU

DL already flies JFK-GRU
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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chrisnh
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:31 pm

Everything that can be said about Delta in Boston will be realized when NOTHING is said about Delta in Boston. I don't know who to blame: Massport as landlord or Delta as tenant. But, once-upon-a-time, Delta was going to have a major international presence at Logan.

Chris in NH
 
jetlanta
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 17):
Everything that can be said about Delta in Boston will be realized when NOTHING is said about Delta in Boston. I don't know who to blame: Massport as landlord or Delta as tenant. But, once-upon-a-time, Delta was going to have a major international presence at Logan.

If you really need to place blame, how about blaming the BOS market? If it was a better opportunity Delta would serve it. It's just not big enough, or high-yielding enough when considering all the existing competition at BOS and opportunities at JFK & ATL.

Nobody is out to get you man, the market just isn't all that.  Wink
 
MSYtristar
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:09 pm

DL should have tried something other than BOS-LGW. They tried the route at least two times starting in the late 90's and they got their clocks cleaned by VS, AA, and BA which fly to Heathrow.
 
B752OS
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 18):
If you really need to place blame, how about blaming the BOS market? If it was a better opportunity Delta would serve it. It's just not big enough, or high-yielding enough when considering all the existing competition at BOS and opportunities at JFK & ATL.

Nobody is out to get you man, the market just isn't all that

How do you figure? BOS is a larger market to Europe than ATL is. You honestly believe that ATL is a high yielding market to Europe? JFK sure is. ATL and their large European network lives from lower yielding connecting pax.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 17):
Everything that can be said about Delta in Boston will be realized when NOTHING is said about Delta in Boston. I don't know who to blame: Massport as landlord or Delta as tenant. But, once-upon-a-time, Delta was going to have a major international presence at Logan.

It is too bad. They have a nice new terminal.
 
worldtraveler
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 20):
ATL and their large European network lives from lower yielding connecting pax.

Once again, statements like this fly completely in the face of facts. I posted here:
The Real Deal On Int'l Local Market Size (by WorldTraveler Aug 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)

data from DOT filings regarding a number of routes flown by US carriers. There are a number of conclusions that can be drawn but over and over a.netters simply do not understand the reality of particular carriers' int'l operations and fact one is that DL's ATL hub generates some of the highest average local fares and highest onboard revenue. DL doesn't carry trash through ATL but instead is able to carefully pick and choose the highest value passengers that can connect through ATL to its international flights. Most other carriers would dream of being able to carry the revenue DL carries because DL's ATL revenue performance blows away what other carriers do from other hubs.

JFK has been DL's historical challenge. They have had a number of markets that have done very well but they have had an equal number that are poor performers. Indications from their most recent profit report is that they are fixing the laggards or they couldn't have reported as good of results as they did.

It makes no sense for DL to try to develop BOS at the same time it is beefing up NYC. NYC is a huge project on its own; trying to do too much at one time is a recipe for disaster. Further, no other US carrier is beating the door down at BOS to open new routes.

Next week will be a grand week at DL. This will undoubtedly be one of DL's most global expansions ever and, as I've said, DL will add more new routes through this series of announcements than many carriers fly for their entire interntional network.
 
B752OS
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
Once again, statements like this fly completely in the face of facts. I posted here:

The Real Deal On Int'l Local Market Size (by WorldTraveler Aug 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)

data from DOT filings regarding a number of routes flown by US carriers. There are a number of conclusions that can be drawn but over and over a.netters simply do not understand the reality of particular carriers' int'l operations and fact one is that DL's ATL hub generates some of the highest average local fares and highest onboard revenue. DL doesn't carry trash through ATL but instead is able to carefully pick and choose the highest value passengers that can connect through ATL to its international flights. Most other carriers would dream of being able to carry the revenue DL carries because DL's ATL revenue performance blows away what other carriers do from other hubs.

That's a nice presentation, but you still did not refute my claims. I said lower yielding pax come thourgh and connect on ATL-Europe flights. What you said is that DL gets higher yielding local pax. The stats on that link only supported my claims that ATL-Europe flights are dominated by connecting pax.
 
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chrisnh
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:13 pm

I wasn't trying to 'defend' Boston, because I happen to believe that the airport is served well enough right now with respect to Europe. I can't really point to any sensible Boston-Europe routes that aren't already being served adequately. But still, Delta did have some grand plans for Boston that they summarily abandoned even while their beautiful new Logan terminal was under construction. "9-11" makes for a convenient 'reason why,' but if that argument really held water then they would have abandoned plans for JFK. It's more personal than that, between Massport & Delta IMO.

What would be nice, but not altogether realistic, is if Delta trumped an airline like Northwest and started Boston-Asia service. THAT is a market that is not already adequately served. In fact, no one serves it. But flying in the face of that is the fact that NW has ordered 787s while DL hasn't.

Chris in NH
 
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LN-MOW
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:13 pm

Coincides nicely with the announcement at ARN monday about a new US-ARN route 'by a leading international carrier'....
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
FlyPNS1
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
DL doesn't carry trash through ATL but instead is able to carefully pick and choose the highest value passengers that can connect through ATL to its international flights.

Nothing in the data you have shown supports this. You haven't show the fares for the connecting traffic only for the O+D traffic.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
Most other carriers would dream of being able to carry the revenue DL carries because DL's ATL revenue performance blows away what other carriers do from other hubs.

Again, what you are saying flys in the face of what DL's own management has said. They've repeatedly said that DL has been at an international revenue disadvantage when compared to the other legacies. DL has worked to close that gap in recent years, but isn't the revenue powerhouse you claim.

In fact, if DL was the revenue powerhouse (plus has the lowest costs of the legacies), you would have expected DL to substantially outperform the industry. Yet, when you look at DL's 2nd quarter operating margin, the number's weren't industry leading. They were good numbers, but far from the mind-boggling numbers that the DL cheerleaders were promotoing.

As to JFK, DL is certainly setting itself up for one disastrous summer next year. They can't even operate the existing schedule and they're going to dump all these new flights in. No wonder the DOT is getting involved.
 
B752OS
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 23):
I wasn't trying to 'defend' Boston, because I happen to believe that the airport is served well enough right now with respect to Europe. I can't really point to any sensible Boston-Europe routes that aren't already being served adequately. But still, Delta did have some grand plans for Boston that they summarily abandoned even while their beautiful new Logan terminal was under construction. "9-11" makes for a convenient 'reason why,' but if that argument really held water then they would have abandoned plans for JFK. It's more personal than that, between Massport & Delta IMO.

There are a few holes out of Boston that would be nice to see filled. Namely BRU, LIS (year round), MAN (year round) and DUB ( year round) I think DL could pretty good for themselves to start a small, European gateway out of BOS to those destinations listed using 752s. You are right, something is up between Massport and DL. The passengers are back at Logan to the numbers pre 9/11 and Europe saw a big increase this summer, and is expected to do the same in the Fall and Winter.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
As to JFK, DL is certainly setting itself up for one disastrous summer next year. They can't even operate the existing schedule and they're going to dump all these new flights in. No wonder the DOT is getting involved.

If DL is expected to start a new slate of JFK-Europe flights, as is expected, how will DOT come in and play a role in that? JFK is turning into a big bloodbath between AA and DL.
 
nycfly75
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 26):
If DL is expected to start a new slate of JFK-Europe flights, as is expected, how will DOT come in and play a role in that? JFK is turning into a big bloodbath between AA and DL.

http://airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3622285/
 
EXAAUADL
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 20):
You honestly believe that ATL is a high yielding market to Europe? JFK sure is.

ahhhh...yes it is ATL-Europe is pretty high yielding and I'd bet more so than JFK. JFK us full of VFR, foreign flags and consolidators, ATL isnt.

I would also bet that connecting pax from little places like MGM connecting thru ATL, is a lot higher than connecting pax connecting thru JFK from places like BVT.

Also when you look at data, ATL might have lower yields thanJFK, but that is because ATL is nearly 750 miles further from Europe than JFK is....However if you STAGE LENGTH ADJUST the yields, youll find ATL is better.

Do you honestly think DL's JFK-LHR will be more profitable than say ATL-LHR???
 
B752OS
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 28):
ahhhh...yes it is ATL-Europe is pretty high yielding and I'd bet more so than JFK. JFK us full of VFR, foreign flags and consolidators, ATL isnt.

HAHA, yes, JFK-Europe is filled with only VFR and consolidators. Excuse me, I forgot, Atlanta is a more important business center than New York is. So of course, Atlanta to Europe is filled with business traffic. Those yields on JFK must be pretty poor considering the sheer number of airlines flying there. I mean, ATL has so much diversity as far as airlines go I mean, JFK is second class to ATL. There must be ZERO business traffic between the second largest city for international finance and Europe.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 28):
Do you honestly think DL's JFK-LHR will be more profitable than say ATL-LHR???

Maybe, maybe not. Also take into account that there is over 20x daily flights between NYC-LON on several airlines where ATL has only 2 offering a whopping 3 x daily flights.
 
dbo861
Posts: 860
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
It was also said that he will be at JFK next week to address Delta's JFK Terminal Situation.

Could this be the long awaited announcement of plans to replace Terminals 2 and 3?
 
jetlanta
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 20):

How do you figure? BOS is a larger market to Europe than ATL is. You honestly believe that ATL is a high yielding market to Europe? JFK sure is. ATL and their large European network lives from lower yielding connecting pax.

Yes

Quoting B752OS (Reply 22):

That's a nice presentation, but you still did not refute my claims. I said lower yielding pax come thourgh and connect on ATL-Europe flights. What you said is that DL gets higher yielding local pax. The stats on that link only supported my claims that ATL-Europe flights are dominated by connecting pax.

Flow yields over ATL are even stronger than local O&D yields. That is why ATL works.

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 24):
Coincides nicely with the announcement at ARN monday about a new US-ARN route 'by a leading international carrier'....

Indeed. For more info see this: http://www.worldroutesstockholm.com/

Maybe I'll give a trip report.  Wink

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
Nothing in the data you have shown supports this. You haven't show the fares for the connecting traffic only for the O+D traffic.

My friend, he is correct. No time to pull current data (see above), but he is absolutely correct. International flows over ATL are a goldmine. Put it this way, nearly all of the Southeast U.S. uses ATL as it's primary international flow point. So if you are Daimler or BMW or Eurocopter and you traveling to or from a SE market in biz class, your best bet is usually DL. DL prints money off of those types of customers. In addition, West Coast markets are actually the largest individual domestic markets connecting over ATL, and there is a lot of premium traffic in those markets. And we can't forget international flows from Latin America. That is also premium traffic. Even the coach fares are high.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):

Again, what you are saying flys in the face of what DL's own management has said. They've repeatedly said that DL has been at an international revenue disadvantage when compared to the other legacies. DL has worked to close that gap in recent years, but isn't the revenue powerhouse you claim.

This was driven by the poor performance of JFK. ATL and CVG were excellent. JFK was not. The current restructuring of the JFK network is rapidly changing that.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 28):
ahhhh...yes it is ATL-Europe is pretty high yielding and I'd bet more so than JFK. JFK us full of VFR, foreign flags and consolidators, ATL isnt.

I would also bet that connecting pax from little places like MGM connecting thru ATL, is a lot higher than connecting pax connecting thru JFK from places like BVT.

Also when you look at data, ATL might have lower yields thanJFK, but that is because ATL is nearly 750 miles further from Europe than JFK is....However if you STAGE LENGTH ADJUST the yields, youll find ATL is better.

Exactly.
 
UN_B732
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:41 pm

I hope they announce a good terminal replacement. I don't want JFK T2 & T3 to get to the state T8 was in before it got closed.

The big problem for them will be where to park until replacement is done.

I'm also throwing JFK-ZAG into the rumor pool, 763 5x weekly.

-A
What now?
 
jetlanta
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 29):
HAHA, yes, JFK-Europe is filled with only VFR and consolidators. Excuse me, I forgot, Atlanta is a more important business center than New York is. So of course, Atlanta to Europe is filled with business traffic. Those yields on JFK must be pretty poor considering the sheer number of airlines flying there. I mean, ATL has so much diversity as far as airlines go I mean, JFK is second class to ATL. There must be ZERO business traffic between the second largest city for international finance and Europe.

No one is saying that ATL is a more important business center man. The point being made here, if you'd calm down and listen, is that JFK has so much service and so many leisure passengers that yields are lower on average than ATL-Europe. This absolutely true. It isn't saying that ATL is a better gateway than JFK for passengers. It is saying that it is a more profitable gateway for Delta than JFK.

I'd also add that EWR is a much higher-yielding gateway than JFK as well. JFK is an amazing airport with fantastic service. It just isn't a profit goldmine for anyone.
 
Rcardinale
Posts: 113
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:48 pm

I also think that it would be a good idea for DL to start BOS- BRU LIS and MAN. The last time any airline flew BOS-BRU was Sabena in the 90's and they used an A330 i believe. This would be a perfect fit for a 752
 
USAirALB
Posts: 1651
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:51 pm

hows ATL/CVG-ANC doin?
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 33):
The point being made here, if you'd calm down and listen, is that JFK has so much service and so many leisure passengers that yields are lower on average than ATL-Europe. This absolutely true.

I should clarify this by saying that stage-adjusted yields are higher, on average, from ATL. Throw in lower costs and you have a very profitable operation.
 
DL173
Posts: 12
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DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:11 am

All,
here's a juicy, verified first flight already in the CRS and available for booking at www.delta.com
Stockholm is back, inaugural flight ATL - ARN 04Jun08 at 20:20. Flight details, copied straight from delta.com:

You selected these flights:

Departs Arrives Stops Travel Time Flights, Cabin (Class) & Upgrade
Stockholm, Sweden (ARN) to Atlanta, GA (ATL) on Thu, 05 Jun 2008
1:35pm
ARN 5:30pm
ATL Nonstop 9 hr 55 min Delta 173
Boeing 767-300ER
In-Flight ServicesCoach (T)
View SeatsUpgrade:
Not Eligible
Atlanta, GA (ATL) to Stockholm, Sweden (ARN) on Sun, 08 Jun 2008
8:20pm
ATL 11:35am
ARN

Arrives 09 Jun Nonstop 9 hr 15 min Delta 172
Boeing 767-300ER
In-Flight Services

Yes!! We're back on the Delta routemap! 1st one of the new flights to be announced that i have been able to find.
 
BWilliams
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:41 pm

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:35 am

I personally find it interesting that DL is flying this route.

I would have thought that they'd do JFK-ARN... I can understand going through ATL, but I'm not sure that they'll have the pax load to make a go of that route.
Regards, Brad Williams
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting DL173 (Reply 37):
All,
here's a juicy, verified first flight already in the CRS and available for booking at www.delta.com
Stockholm is back, inaugural flight ATL - ARN 04Jun08 at 20:20. Flight details, copied straight from delta.com:

Now this is great news! Maybe i'll get on that inagural. Always wanted to go to Sweden. Great job, Delta!

By the way, I always enjoy reading the anti-DL comments on how weak of a European market ATL really is in terms of supposed low yields. It provides me with a much needed laugh. I have a coworker who worked for DL Rev. Management for 25 years, and the truth folks...sadly to some, I know...is pretty much what Jetlanta and EXAAUADL have posted above. But do not fret...being wrong is ok...there's always another discussion on another day. Lord knows I've been wrong before.
 
nycfly75
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:38 pm

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting BWilliams (Reply 38):
I would have thought that they'd do JFK-ARN...

They will be announcing a lot of other stuff from JFK Im sure.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 10):
Needless to say it never went anywhere, but if they went for it back then there has to be at least some demand through and from CVG to Asia.

Not really. The flight was from ATL and was to make a scheduled stop in CVG, due to the M11's (or should I say, the "SCUD's") unreliability on 6000nm+ transpacs. ATL-CVG-PEK still would've had a nigh equidistant segment to DL's ATL-NRT, but a nonstop ATL-PEK would've been pushing the same envelope that DL's illfated LAX-HKG did.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 17):
But, once-upon-a-time, Delta was going to have a major international presence at Logan.

pre-9/11, and pre-It's-gotta-be-E

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 19):
DL should have tried something other than BOS-LGW.

They did the latter attempt on the assumption that the '02 bid at USA-UK OpenSkies would go through. The flight was scrapped almost immediately following the proposal's dissolution.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 31):
nearly all of the Southeast U.S. uses ATL as it's primary international flow point

...to Europe, yes. Houston and Miami might have a thing or two to say about that when it comes to LatAm connections though.

Quoting Rcardinale (Reply 34):
The last time any airline flew BOS-BRU was Sabena in the 90's

IINM, didn't VG/Delsey offer service well beyond that?.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
eastern023
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:08 am

Yep, no DL from ATL-LPB

I still wonder about JFK-SCL
AA will Rise Again!
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 41):
IINM, didn't VG/Delsey offer service well beyond that?.

I think they did for a time.

I flew BOS-BRU on a DL/SN codeshare in November, 1999. A330-300 departing from one of the DL gates at Logan.
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 29):
HAHA, yes, JFK-Europe is filled with only VFR and consolidators. Excuse me, I forgot, Atlanta is a more important business center than New York is. So of course, Atlanta to Europe is filled with business traffic. Those yields on JFK must be pretty poor considering the sheer number of airlines flying there. I mean, ATL has so much diversity as far as airlines go I mean, JFK is second class to ATL. There must be ZERO business traffic between the second largest city for international finance and Europe.

Boy you know zero about the airline industry....your entire above argument is precisely WHY JFK has lower yields...COMPETITION...let me ask you have you actually seen the P&Ls for DL on transatlantic routes served from both JFK and ATL??? I thought not. Guess who has..........me.
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 29):
Maybe, maybe not. Also take into account that there is over 20x daily flights between NYC-LON on several airlines where ATL has only 2 offering a whopping 3 x daily flights.

That is precisely why yields from JFK are lower....no raw yields might be hoigher but again I said you must stage length adjust yields to get a good comparison.


I will aslo add that while profitable JFK-LHR for AA was the worst performing LON route, with ORD-LHR typically being the most profitable along with DFW-LGW. RDU, MIA, BOS and even LAX typically were more profitable than JFK.
 
pizzaandplanes
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 10:17 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:21 am

Scandinavia has been a cash cow for CO. Bringing in more competition won't hurt. I am happy that DL is joining CO's boat in success overseas.
A real man lands where he wants to
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:25 am

I'm very curious what they will announce regarding their terminal at JFK. They don't really have many options to continue expanding at this point...Either they will have to build a new terminal offsite (somewhere near the old Tower Air Terminal), or drastically increase Terminal 4's size while they rebuild T2/T3...If they do the latter, their new JFK operation will be a mess for years to come...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
deltasju777
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:29 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:35 am

Will LAX receive any announcements or is it strictly JFK and ATL?
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

DL To Announce Latest Int'l Expansion This Week

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting Deltasju777 (Reply 48):
Will LAX receive any announcements or is it strictly JFK and ATL?

LAX-Europe is a real stretch for US carriers and I dont think DL's product is up to par for the important LAX-CDG route.
Reason why European carries do better in LAX than US carries do for European service is that there are so many unique destinations beyond the gateway in Europe that can command a decent fare, if not a lot of traffic.

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