lrdc9
Posts: 263
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:23 am

A DC Representative is trying to prevent 6 out of boundary flights from being added at DCA because of traffic congestion and noise. I think that they should let the flights in, but that just my  twocents .

It has been on the local news radio all day, 103.5 for those who live in DC
Just say NO to scabs.
 
CitrusCritter
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:36 am

I'm assuming this is Eleanor Holmes-Norton. In that case, we should pretty much ignore her. She wouldn't know the first thing about what's good for DC, and especially not what's good for air travel. If she wants to stop out of boundary flights, she ought to convince the Mayor to chip in more cash to pay for the IAD metro line to get finished.

For that matter, I never noticed any noise from DCA when I lived in DC. In fact, the planes that fly in there are so quiet, that you don't hear them unless they come right over you before landing. I was actually watching the fireworks this past 4th on a hill near Key Bridge on the Virginia side. An AS 737 as well as several US planes came in over the river very near us, and I didn't hear them. The only part of DC that might hear the flights would be SE when planes line up for a landing on 33. Even then, they cut hard over the river, so it's doubtful. What a bunch of nonsense. DC's government including their Federal delegate, need to worry about fixing the city, not about dumb stuff like this.
 
lrdc9
Posts: 263
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:45 am

My thoughts exactly  bigthumbsup 
Just say NO to scabs.
 
CitrusCritter
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:52 am

Also, don't forget that amongst the general public and idiot politicians everywhere, if the plane is flying a longer route, it must be a bigger plane, so it must make more noise. This is another case of that, and it comes up everytime they talk about perimeter exemptions at DCA.

Do you know if any of the airlines have filed for these exemptions? I figure SFO is certainly up for a direct flight. I didn't realize LAS had one, but just looked it up and US flies it.
 
scorpy
Posts: 164
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:59 am

What is the process for adding these flights? Do they first decide the destinations then carriers get to apply?
 
contrails
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 1):
I'm assuming this is Eleanor Holmes-Norton. In that case, we should pretty much ignore her.

I couldn't agree more. By the way, she is a Delegate, not a Representative.

I don't know what noise DC residents would hear. Flights can't go over much of DC, due to restricted airspace. They go just north of me in Arlington when they're departing to the north and I very seldom hear anything. When I do it doesn't bother me.

What are the 6 flights in question?
Flying Colors Forever!
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting Scorpy (Reply 4):
What is the process for adding these flights? Do they first decide the destinations then carriers get to apply?

No, the airlines submit proposals. But the Dept of Transportation certainly has certain places in mind that they are more likely to award.

I imagine SFO is almost certain to get service. After that, I don't know if they might add frequency to places like LAX. The major western cities without DCA service are SFO, PDX, and SAN. On a lower rung, there'd be SMF, ABQ, BOI, GEG...just to name a few. And just for kicks, ANC and HNL. The latter two aren't happening for obvious reasons, not the least of which is a plane with the ability to land at DCA that could fly that.
 
ikramerica
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 3):
Also, don't forget that amongst the general public and idiot politicians everywhere, if the plane is flying a longer route, it must be a bigger plane, so it must make more noise. This is another case of that, and it comes up everytime they talk about perimeter exemptions at DCA.

Totally. By limiting DCA to shorter flights, you are increasing the chance of the airline using older technology MD80s and 737s and RJs such as the CRJ, which are louder than the A320s and 737NG and other newer planes that would ply the long range routes.

Quoting Contrails (Reply 5):
I couldn't agree more. By the way, she is a Delegate, not a Representative.

And the Senate again dismissed the concept of making her a real representative just this week...  Smile
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
And the Senate again dismissed the concept of making her a real representative just this week.

Exactly and I am sure that by using that poliitical chip she could maybe turn this into an advantage for her, DC, the airlines, pax and on and on it could go. She would become a full member of the house. and all of s sudden her opposition to the increase in flights would disappear.
 
PanAm747
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:59 am

Keep in mind that Washington DC is perhaps the most dysfunctional city in the United States. It is not technically part of any state, so it has no official voting representation in congress. It is a city administered by the U.S. Congress, and any acts of the city government can be overruled by Congress.

Washington DC license plates say "Taxation Without Representation". Residents pay federal income tax but have only "delegates" to represent them in Congress. Personally, I think the city should be returned to Maryland with the exception of the central capital area, as it would solve a host of problems, but that's not the issue.

The point I'm making is that whatever complaining the "delegate" does will be pointless for three reasons: One, she has no voting power at all - only an advisory vote. Two, her constituents - residents only of the District Of Columbia - are not NIMBY's with voting power. That would be the wealthy suburbs of Maryland and Virginia - very much represented. And third, Congress VERY much likes DCA - an airport that absolutely defines convenience. Considering that the U.S. Congress rejected the recommendation to keep DCA closed permanently after 9/11, it is logical to believe that as long as the airport operates within the guidelines and rules that have been set down, expansions beyond the perimeter will continue.

Face it - if you are a congressperson on the west coast, wouldn't you be in favor of a non-stop to your home district from DCA? I know I certainly would!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
bingo
Posts: 278
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:51 pm

The second I read the headline, I said it has to be that old nut Eleanor Holmes-Norton again. People like her are as clueless as the people who put her in office. DCA is in Arlington County Virginia. When flights come in from the south, they are over VA airspace. When they takeoff or land from the north, just about all overflight is/should be over VA. If anyone should be upset, its us. I work in Rosslyn and those planes buzz by my office all the time. Unless youre right under them, you cant really hear them. Its election time and shes trying to make enough noise to keep her name in the paper. Her next brainchild idea is to tax all of us who come into the district to work. Hopefully before too long, Congress will get smart and pull a good chunk of government out of DC and push it elsewhere.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 9):
Keep in mind that Washington DC is perhaps the most dysfunctional city in the United States.



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 9):
I think the city should be returned to Maryland



AMEN!!!!!
 
masseybrown
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 9):
Personally, I think the city should be returned to Maryland

Please.... We can barely afford Baltimore.

It wasn't that long ago that Stage 2 aircraft taking off up river would stop performances in the Kennedy Center. Is DCA all Stage 3 aircraft now? It really is much quieter than 15 years ago.
 
N353SK
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 14):
Is DCA all Stage 3 aircraft now? It really is much quieter than 15 years ago.

The loudest planes DCA gets regularly these days are the NW DC9s, with AA and DL MD80s taking a close second (correct me if i'm wrong, but I can't think of anything else) which, while loud by today's standards are still a vast improvement over the DC9's of 20 years ago.
 
jibblets
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:28 pm

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:23 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 11):
People from outside DC always want to influence what happens inside city boundaries.  

And yet, Washington National Airport is located in the Commonwealth of Virginia and operated by an independent airport authority, serving the large suburban areas of Virginia and Maryland, in addition to the District. Ms. Holmes-Norton does not represent those of us living outside the District borders.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 9):
Personally, I think the city should be returned to Maryland

Ack, no thanks!  Wink
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:10 pm

I really like DCA a lot and use it as my home airport. The nice thing about DCA is that because of good slot implementation, the airport rarely suffers from congestion. If every five years or so, Congress keeps adding more flights to DCA, it will eventually look like LGA.

My proposition is to allow the majors at DCA to convert a few of their existing slots to long-haul if they want. The caveat being you can't reduce the number of flights to small/non-hub airports. Therefore, we increase the long-haul reach of DCA without adding a lot of congestion.
 
CitrusCritter
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:22 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 18):
The caveat being you can't reduce the number of flights to small/non-hub airports. Therefore, we increase the long-haul reach of DCA without adding a lot of congestion.

I have often wondered about the feasibility of developing Bolling AFB (which is being downsized by BRAC) or the Washington Executive Airport into a regional jet haven for all the direct flights that Congressmen want to Smalltownsville. As far as I know, no one but US uses DCA for passenger connectivity, so moving RJs to another airport wouldn't appear to be a problem. Then more hub flights and limited transcon could be opened up at DCA, while maintaining IAD for international and most outside perimeter flights.
 
boeing743
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:16 am

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:30 am

I frequently used DCA when I was university student at DC. I always enjoy flying in and out of DCA. That is good that they want to add more long routes to DCA because it will save a lot of passengers' time. I am wonder how is AS routes to LAX and SEA, DL to SLC and UA to DEN doing??
 
AmtrakGuy
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 1999 11:25 am

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:14 am

I live in DC and I am proud to tell you I have NEVER vote for her. I do write in another candiate (usually I write in "Mikey Mouse").

Dave
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1845
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:22 am

When are these slots going to to be made available? Or is it just a proposal currently??

I am pretty sure Aloha would try again for HNL-SNA-DCA.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 16):
UA to DEN doing??

Don't forget F9 to DEN!

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 18):
I am pretty sure Aloha would try again for HNL-SNA-DCA.

That'd be pretty cool. I'd fly that to go to Hawaii on vacation if I still lived in DC. That'd be pretty sweet.
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 965
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 15):
I have often wondered about the feasibility of developing Bolling AFB (which is being downsized by BRAC)

Bolling has no runways to speak of, it is pretty much all DoD/Air Force housing, and the Defense Intelligence Agency just finished a brand new building. So no airport at Bolling AFB/Anacostia NAS.

I'm not too sure how much sense it would make to build an airport a bit over a mile away from another one, just to handle RJs. Regardless of connectivity, it would be inefficient. DC needs a Dulles link yesterday, not another airport.
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:33 am

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 17):
I live in DC and I am proud to tell you I have NEVER vote for her. I do write in another candiate (usually I write in "Mikey Mouse").

I voted for Rufus T. Firefly. Despite E. H-N, I think the District is running better than it has in years. And I LIKE quiet DCA, it never seems crowded.
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:41 am

DCA's air traffic is really not that bad. planes only fly over/close to a few places in the district (like upper georgetown/ the palisades) before banking right when landing on RWY 1. Adding 5 or 6 more flights over the course of the day really would not be catastrophic to anyone. And as someone has mentioned before...the planes used on such routes would likely be quieter than the planes they use to fly to closer destinations.

I've lived in DC (in Foggy Bottom, where the planes can be heard), and I've dealt with all the noise of the city....... planes are the least of my worries in terms of noise-making compared to traffic and ambulances....and VIP / Presidential Motorcades!!!

-AA777
 
CitrusCritter
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 20):
Bolling has no runways to speak of

Did not know that.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 20):
DC needs a Dulles link yesterday, not another airport

Completely agree. The Metro link is the answer, but I tend to think it'd be easier to develop a new airport at the rate it's going!  Wink
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 965
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DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 23):
Did not know that.

Bolling is connected to Anacostia Naval Air System. The runways, taxiways and most all of the airport infrastructure has been gone for at least one decade on both sides of the base. The Anacostia NAS still has an air traffic control tower and handles helicopters.

Building an airport there would require razing all the structures there, and building all new infrastructure, not to mention building new transport links to the city itself.
 
contrails
Posts: 1310
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

DC Representative Opposing More Flights At DCA

Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 18):
I am pretty sure Aloha would try again for HNL-SNA-DCA.

I hope so. That would be awesome.
Flying Colors Forever!

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