T773ER
Topic Author
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:13 am

New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:00 am

"British Airways could announce a possible purchase of B-787s and B-747s within two weeks. This was stated last Friday on behalf of Boeing manager Jim Haas during his visit to the Alenia Aeronautica plant in Grottaglie, southern Italy."

"Haas also declared that for the B-787 the bookings list is closed until 2013, thus a carrier that wanted to place an order could do so only as of 2014."

Rest of article here: http://www.avionews.com/index.php?co...1079648&pagina_chiamante=index.php
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
B7X7
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:26 pm

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:09 am

He says "Possible purchase" which says to me that Boeing does not know where it is going either (or will not publicly state).

Possible could mean it could go to Airbus

I think it could go Boeing, but it is really to close to call.
 
by738
Posts: 2426
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
British Airways could announce

...and "could announce " Airbus. I certainly wouldnt read too much into that.
 
keesje
Posts: 8760
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:36 am

I think Boeing and Airbus sales teams have a good idea on what has been decided.

On the other hand once I was in a purchasing team and we apparently played out the two remaining contenders so well both were in shock to be selected / disqualified. I still remember the winners salesman frozen face when we said he had the deal (if they gave us a discount of x%). Same thing on the other side, only really believed they were ditched (after many yrs) when I told them later face to face.

If BA negotiators play it well, nobody is 100% sure at this moment & still feeling forced to do last minute incentives..

[Edited 2007-09-24 17:57:34]
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting B7X7 (Reply 1):
Possible could mean it could go to Airbus

I think it could go Boeing, but it is really to close to call.



Quoting BY738 (Reply 2):
...and "could announce " Airbus. I certainly wouldnt read too much into that.

However the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I and the 787. I think that a Boeing exec wouldn't have said the things he said in Italy if there wasn't a deal done already with BA. I think it looks extremely good for the 748I and the 787 to be bought by BA given this information.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
keesje
Posts: 8760
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
However the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I

Trace them back. Thin indications by questionable sources IMO.

However I think many are convinced the 787 is a better 767 replacement then the A350..



for this round 787+A380 as my best guess, XWB & 747-8: maybe later..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
na
Posts: 9165
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
However I think many are convinced the 787 is a better 767 replacement then the A350..

The 787 is a better 767 replacement than the larger A350, and a fine 777 replacement, too. BA can´t get 787s before 2013 (unless some slots are freed by airlines changing their mind). 2013-15 is a perfect time to replace the aging 777s (BA has some of the oldest 777s around), but a bit late to replace the then really old 767s.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
However the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I and the 787.

Hmm, there were many words recently BA would get A380s. Personally I hope BA goes the Lufthansa way and orders A380s AND 748Is.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4794
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I and the 787

No they haven't. I've only seen one person repeatedly say that here, and that was you.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2505
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:21 am

I'm hoping BA will order the 748I as the program needs a major order announcement it any other airlines are going to consider it. Most airlines flying the 747 are leaning towards the A380 or the 773ER. The 787 will look good in BA colors too.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
columbia107
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:42 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:24 am

Is the market getting a whiff of success for Boeing?

Its share price has risen by some US$6 during the last week.

Admittedly, it might be the effects of the 50 basis points drop in the US Dollar lending rate.

Oh by the way, if BA finally opts for the 787, do the chances of a future XWB purchase diminish?

I say this as they can go for the 787-10 which translates into commonality of equipment.

Tops this with a weaker dollar and .......................
In God we trust
 
User avatar
tavong
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 1:59 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:30 am

No matter what, BA is in a exremely good negotiation place that no matter if they go A or B ( i hope they go B) they´ll get a sweet, very sweet deal.

That´s the only thing i can say at this point. If they go A or B, there are too many threads about it and the conclusion is the same. Nobody knows.  biggrin 

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot more happy.
 
caminito
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:04 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
This was stated last Friday on behalf of Boeing manager Jim Haas



Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
"British Airways could announce a possible purchase of B-787s and B-747s within two weeks



Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
"Haas also declared that for the B-787 the bookings list is closed until 2013

Unfortunately, each time more so, publications as Avionews and Flight global seem to convert themselves in propagators of unsupported rumors.
What means "on behalf of...." ?!. This seems that Avionews heard it through another or even a chain of other person who did so, so they do not know what he really said. This refers both to the BA purchase and the bookings available, which obviously depend how much production will increase from 2010 on, an issue Boeing repeatedly declared to be studying!

By the way: even if Airbus complies with an EIS date 2013, given their order book, any new customer for the A350 would have to wait until
2016-7, at least.

See also Reuters article "PREVIEW-BA order seen pivotal for superjumbo and newest 747"
http://int1.fp.sandpiper.net/reuters...0070910/TodayTop10BestSelling2.gif
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13764
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
Trace them back. Thin indications by questionable sources IMO.

Miracles of miracles, I agree with Keesje.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
for this round 787+A380 as my best guess, XWB & 747-8: maybe later..

And again! I feel so dirty, I need a shower...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Columbia107 (Reply 9):
Admittedly, it might be the effects of the 50 basis points drop in the US Dollar lending rate.

I think you're spot on!
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Carls
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:22 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:51 am

A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

It looks very conservative, but sound like a good combination. Only time will tell us.

[Edited 2007-09-24 19:53:01]
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
If BA negotiators play it well, nobody is 100% sure at this moment & still feeling forced to do last minute incentives..

If this decision really is going down to the last minute, I would take note of the falling dollar and rising Euro.
BA's finances are tight, and the weak dollar is an advantage to Boeing. dollarsign  down  fever 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
insiderinfo
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:43 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting Columbia107 (Reply 9):
Oh by the way, if BA finally opts for the 787, do the chances of a future XWB purchase diminish?

Yes...i'd say so..

did BA ever go for the 777 and A340...nope

did BA ever go for the 767 and the A330....nope..

did they ever go for the 757/737 and A321 at the same time....nope...rather planned to replace the families with A321 for next gen replacement...

It's 777/787....OR.not and a350.....
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

The fact that there are no 748i's in that list tells me the source is dubious. I think BA will, like LH, go for the A380 AND the 748. They have shed loads of 744's, and while some will be replaced with A380's and others with A350-1000's, there are going to be plenty that will need to be replaced/augmented with 748's.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13764
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 17):
The fact that there are no 748i's in that list tells me the source is dubious. I think BA will, like LH, go for the A380 AND the 748.

They have repeatedly said they would not do so with this order. This does not preclude a future order.

Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according

As for that order, I do not see the rush for BA to place such a large A350-1000, considering the plane won't be available for 8-9 years. If anything you would see an order for A350-900 with OPTIONS for more A350s. Nor do I see them ordering more A350-1000 than A350-900 at this point. Thus if your friend is likely reporting a rumor he heard from the inside, not any actual decision.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
dl767captain
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:51 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:11 am

i can see a 748 and 787 order. BA is getting more into p2p travel under the open skies act and the 787 is perfect for that. I could also see a medium sized 777(maybe -300) as a filler until 787 can arrive
 
by738
Posts: 2426
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:16 am

I cant beleive yet another post on this is creating so much interest.....just wait and see. Noone knows....in here anyway.
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:21 am

That doesnt mean we cannot speculate Big grin
Eagles Soar!
 
hb88
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 8):
I'm hoping BA will order the 748I as the program needs a major order announcement it any other airlines are going to consider it. Most airlines flying the 747 are leaning towards the A380 or the 773ER. The 787 will look good in BA colors too.

Let's hope that the carriers don't then get a whiff of Mcnerneys comment saying that the 748i is a "747 re-do"!  Wink

(see http://leeham.net/filelib/ScottsColumn091807.pdf)

Personally, I'd prefer to see BA order the A380 given how it offers a few more possibilities in the way of pax comfort even in cattle-class.

I also wonder where the abandon point is for Boeing on the 748i project is if they don't get more carriers on board. Does anyone have a credible figure for break-even on the project?
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11002
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

I have a friend who knows nothing about airlines or airplanes. He thinks BA will order:
A-330
A-340
A-350
A-380
B-737
B-747
B-777
B-787

LOL
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23100
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:50 am

Even if BA has signed a purchase agreement with Boeing, no Boeing executive is going to leak it prior to BA announcing.

One, it's not Boeing's style. And two, after the QR 777 bru-ha-ha, even if it wasn't their style, they would make it so after that.  Smile
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:57 am

I would think that with $1.41 = 1 Euro, that a 748i that uses old American parts might be looking pretty sweet right now. Just my opinion.
 
by738
Posts: 2426
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 21):
That doesnt mean we cannot speculate

No but 120 posts on the previous thread was more than enough....
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:09 am

Airbus and Boeing are both sharpening their pencils. BA have already decided on their preference and how much their second choice will have to beat their first choice on price (adjusted by a myriad of terms and conditions, each of which has an assigned dollar value) in order to win.
 
express1
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:08 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:20 am

Speculation is no prove , the regional announcement will be, so lets wait for that announcement then we will all know what BA will order.

dave
David.S cavanagh since 1961,if you can do better,then show me.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23100
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 26):
I would think that with $1.41 = 1 Euro, that a 748i that uses old American parts might be looking pretty sweet right now. Just my opinion.

Heck, with the British Pound worth $2 US, I expect the 747-8I and the 787 are looking mighty sweet right now.  Smile

Mind you, Airbus prices in USD, as well, so BA is going to get a nice deal, period, but it I expect more of stuff in the 747-8I is priced in dollars then the A380-800 which will help Boeing on pricing.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8005
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:35 am

I think the BA order will at least comprise of circa 15 A380-800's and 20-25 747-8I's. Interestingly, I think BA will NOT assign the A388 to the LHR-JFK route, since that route requires more in the way of frequent flights; it will be a route used heavily by the 747-8I.
 
sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:16 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:39 am

Theres no reason for BA NOT to get the A380. If they can fill their 747s now, then in the future, they'll be able to fill the A380s, with the predicted increase in pax across the Atlantic etc.
Also , BA is a prestige airline and I think their customers want and expect the A380 luxury on the prominent routes.

A350 is a better choice for BA than 787. Even if the A350-800 is slightly bigger than the 787-8, BA can put in more F and J class seats and easily fill them and make more money per segment. The important thing for BA is to make a really big A350 order now, all models, so they can get in on the earliest deliveries the can at this point.
Both A380's and A350's can use RR engines for increased fleet compatibility, and its a good PR move for them to buy British products.
How can Airbus lose this order?
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
15 A380-800's

Way to many...

748i and 787 is a definite along with 6-10 A380's.


We will know around Oct. 3rd.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13764
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
Interestingly, I think BA will NOT assign the A388 to the LHR-JFK route, since that route requires more in the way of frequent flights; it will be a route used heavily by the 747-8I.

I agree. They could be using more 744s now instead of some 772s if they really wanted to consolidate. You might, might see on A380 a day, but why go through the trouble of having one frequency on that route and all the various equipment they would need on the ground at JFK to handle it.

The USA market is so spread out, and open skies will open it further (with BA having more LHR capable routes). The USA will likely continue to be a 747/777/767 market, with A380s heading to Asia...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
blsbls99
Posts: 341
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 32):
Also , BA is a prestige airline and I think their customers want and expect the A380 luxury on the prominent routes.

BA is not a prestige airline...they are a profit driven airline. If they were a prestige airline, we would still see Concorde in the skies. The luxury component of air travel does not depend on what airframe one flies.
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
Mind you, Airbus prices in USD, as well, so BA is going to get a nice deal, period, but it I expect more of stuff in the 747-8I is priced in dollars then the A380-800 which will help Boeing on pricing

The old saying goes "... in for a penny, in for a pound...". Airbus has so much invested in the A380 that I doubt that they will let an order be lost due to price with BA. This is just too prestigious and too big of a customer to let get away on pricing alone. Besides, as you said, Airbus prices their product in US dollars just like Boeing. I believe that they will order at least 10 - 15 A380's and 20 - 30 747-8I's along with the 787. They will order the A350 or 787-11 later when they need to worry about replacing the 777's.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
Interestingly, I think BA will NOT assign the A388 to the LHR-JFK route, since that route requires more in the way of frequent flights; it will be a route used heavily by the 747-8I.

 checkmark 
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 33):
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
15 A380-800's

Way to many...
6-10 A380's.

I'll have a little bet with you that BA order more than 10 A388s.  Wink

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 33):
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):

748i and 787 is a definite

Ooh hold on there cowboy - are you sure about that?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 36):
Airbus has so much invested in the A380 that I doubt that they will let an order be lost due to price with BA. This is just too prestigious and too big of a customer to let get away on pricing alone.

The situation for Boeing is much the same. Airbus has no advantage in desire for this order. More important, if comments from the Airbus board are to be believed, they would not approve of selling A380's below cost...regardless of "prestige". There is always a limit to how far a vendor can bend on pricing.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 36):
Besides, as you said, Airbus prices their product in US dollars just like Boeing

But Airbus has to consider most of their costs are in Euros. When it comes to the pencil-sharpening phase, Boeing has more leeway to discount as they do not face exchange-rate risks as Airbus does.

Boeing can offer the B748i at cost if they wish, knowing the dollar amount to a good degree of certainty. Airbus cannot be so certain what the dollar-equivalent cost of an A380 will be in the future, so they must take a risk in discounting their product.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:17 am

Well as some say we have to wait till Oct 3.

And like my friend BWIA772 we can speculate till then lol.

But I stand by my 748i and 787 prediction.
All ah we is one family
 
iwok
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:35 pm

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
If BA negotiators play it well, nobody is 100% sure at this moment & still feeling forced to do last minute incentives..

Very well said, and knowing the English expertise at negotiations, I'd say this is still wide open from the manufacturer's perspective. An internal decision must have been made by now I suspect.

Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

It looks very conservative, but sound like a good combination. Only time will tell u

Hardly a "conservative order."  Wink

My bet is that they will order 748/787 combo, or possibly order some 380/787/350 combo with maybe some 748i and 787 for interrim lift.  rotfl 

I'd say the only thing we know is that the 340 and 767 will NOT be ordered.  Smile

iwok
 
User avatar
glideslope
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 17):
Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

The fact that there are no 748i's in that list tells me the source is dubious. I think BA will, like LH, go for the A380 AND the 748. They have shed loads of 744's, and while some will be replaced with A380's and others with A350-1000's, there are going to be plenty that will need to be replaced/augmented with 748's.

Agree completely. I see a very nice 748i order coming. I'm not sure about the 787. Could be a split with the 350. I say no 380 at this time.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 38):
Boeing can offer the B748i at cost if they wish, knowing the dollar amount to a good degree of certainty. Airbus cannot be so certain what the dollar-equivalent cost of an A380 will be in the future, so they must take a risk in discounting their product.

Fair enough, you make a good point.  Smile
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 32):
BA is a prestige airline and I think their customers want and expect the A380 luxury on the prominent routes.

So what are you saying? That the amenities provided on an A380 can not be provided on a B748? Luxury found on a plane, depends on how much money an airline is prepared to spend in anticipation for ROI. For example: You can pack passengers in on the A380 in an 850 seat Y-class configuration, which is not luxurious at all, even on a prominent route like LHR-JFK-LHR…. Forget about the “prestigious” A380, I will take a flight on an “ancient” 3-class 767ER across the pond.

Please remember that BA’s 744’s are flown to a lot of international airports which are not necessarily capable of handling A380’s. Many of these airports, IMO, will not be willing to commence with huge capital expenditures, just in case they get a few weekly or even a daily A380 service. Why did LH order the 748 after all – just to bridge the gap between the A346 and the A380? Personally, I don’t think so. However, I may be wrong. Just my  twocents 


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 38):
The situation for Boeing is much the same. Airbus has no advantage in desire for this order. More important, if comments from the Airbus board are to be believed, they would not approve of selling A380's below cost...regardless of "prestige". There is always a limit to how far a vendor can bend on pricing.

 checkmark 

Every company including Airbus has a bottom line that they will not go under. I work for a semiconductor company and we tell customers to go take a hike or buy the competition everyday, even if it means we lose profit. We do this to prevent price erosion. We also do it because it looks really bad for us when one of our customers finds out their competitors are getting product from us cheaper than they can. We also do it because we need a return on investment. Even if our parts only cost us $1 to make, we may charge $10 to recover $50 million we spent on R&D, so we do have a bottom line. I know semiconductors and airplanes are different, but I believe the basic principal remains the same, at some point you need to make a profit and sometimes it's worse to make a small profit than no profit.
 
phishphan70
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:23 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 17):
I think BA will, like LH, go for the A380 AND the 748. They have shed loads of 744's, and while some will be replaced with A380's and others with A350-1000's, there are going to be plenty that will need to be replaced/augmented with 748's.



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 19):
i can see a 748 and 787 order. BA is getting more into p2p travel under the open skies act and the 787 is perfect for that. I could also see a medium sized 777(maybe -300) as a filler until 787 can arrive

ever since LH ordered both the 380 and 748, i have had a feeling we'd see BA do something similar. LHR is a HUGE spot for international traffic, and BA has a great international network out of LHR, and other airports as well. I believe some routes flown by the 744 right now are perfect to be replaced by the 380 (ex LHR-JNB) and some routes will be perfect for the 748 (LHR-SFO). As for the aging 777's and 767's, i could see BA negotiating with Boeing on some lower-cost (still not cheep though!) new 777's to replace some old 777's and using the old 777's on existing 767 routes until the A350 or 787 are avalible
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:11 am

Can someone dress up a 747-8i in BA scheme like someone did with the A380?
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting BY738 (Reply 27):

I guess so.. but for me this it is one of the cool things about airliners.net
Eagles Soar!
 
skytaxi
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:52 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 36):
Besides, as you said, Airbus prices their product in US dollars just like Boeing.

...but Airbus builds their planes using the Euro.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10006
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting BY738 (Reply 20):
I cant beleive yet another post on this is creating so much interest.....just wait and see. Noone knows....in here anyway.

I'm fairly sure there are those who know for sure on here, but are not going to say a word for their job's sake. As it is, all we get is an A vs B war brought on by so called 'reliable sources' cited and formulated to predict one of the other.

Best just to wait and see, whoever gets it, BA will have some nice shiny planes to play with.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
caminito
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:04 am

RE: New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 38):
There is always a limit to how far a vendor can bend on pricing.

Not so, at least not from the companies perspective. If (hypothetically?) Airbus thinks that not getting an order from BA would kill the A380 programme, so creating a damage far beyond of the originated by selling to BA a few frames far below cost price, or, Boeing thinks that not getting such order would mean the end of the A748i, they would accept virtually any price as long as not absurd, hoping to be able to recuperate such loss later.

The real limit would be eventually imposed by the WTO anti-dumping rules.
.

Who is online