bells
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New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:44 pm

Airbus has dropped the A380 cockpit for the A350 XWB and gone for bigger screens like the 787.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ew-a350-xwb-flightdeck-design.html

Are they doing the right thing, ie abandoning commonality? Can they have a common type rating anymore?
 
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zeke
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:09 pm

Still looks fairly similar, the devil is in the detail with systems etc. The information from the 10 A380 screens seems still to be on the 6 larger ones in this new picture.
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eaglewarrior
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:23 pm

I think it looks better. It gives it a futuristic look. And maybe they are making up for the new nose design.  Smile
 
keesje
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting Bells (Thread starter):
Airbus has dropped the A380 cockpit for the A350 XWB and gone for bigger screens like the 787.

B787


A350XWB


A380


The number / function of primary & secondary displays is different, the windows / layout, control stick/side stick.. a totally different cockpit from the 787.

Zeke, what about : “The ability to share some of this airport and navigation information on the centre display is seen as advantage for the pilots because it means they can be looking at the same display together." it seems logical to have the ability to point things to each other when sharing info on the same display, would that have value in your opinion?

[Edited 2007-09-25 13:39:23]
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voodoo
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:46 pm

I suppose, given a bit of time, Airbus could 'upgrade' the 380 to the 350 cockpit. 'A380SNG' (Slightly New Generation).
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zeke
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
totally different cockpit from the 787.

This the information being displayed is basically the same, the main difference between the two is the PFD.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
would that have value in your opinion?

The middle screen is basically the FMC screen, pilots are supposed to cross check the information each others are putting in.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
mcdu
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:15 pm

I really like the proposed A350XWB flightdeck. I have a 20+ year career of flying mostly Boeings and only about 4 years in the Airbus 320 Series. In my opinion I like the comfort, fit, finish and noise levels of the Airbus over the Boeings. The 777 may be the finest airplane I have ever flown but the 320 cockpit is best for long days. If the A350 meets the design targets for laid out by Airbus then I think they will have a very successful airplane. In addition the technical difficulties that Boeing is currently having with the 787 may be giving Airbus some catch up time. I am curious if Airbus is using this time effectively?

MCDU
 
Badge
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:47 pm

Looks like they have gone to the Boeing style rudder pedals.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting Bells (Thread starter):
Are they doing the right thing, ie abandoning commonality? Can they have a common type rating anymore?

They couldn't have had a common type rating anyway (twin vs. quad).

Tom.
 
kappel
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting Badge (Reply 7):
Looks like they have gone to the Boeing style rudder pedals.

What's the difference in rudder pedals? I thought they already worked the same.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):
They couldn't have had a common type rating anyway (twin vs. quad).

Is that the important factor? I thought the a343 has a common type rating to the a330 and a320 series? Or am I wrong?

Quoting Bells (Thread starter):
Airbus has dropped the A380 cockpit for the A350 XWB and gone for bigger screens like the 787

If I look at the comparison photo's between the 787 cockpit and the new a350 cockpit, it seems that the 787 screens are much bigger. Is this just perception? I'd think the bigger the screens the better, right? Wonder why Airbus didn't go for even bigger screens.
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SkyexRamper
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Bells (Thread starter):
Are they doing the right thing, ie abandoning commonality?

They aren't really...the main PFD symbology looks that same as all other FBW airbuses.
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keesje
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:05 am

Maybe they optimized the size of the screens on the XWB to be able to place them all next to each other, contrary to the low A380 info displays and the 787 EFB displays..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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moo
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
Is that the important factor? I thought the a343 has a common type rating to the a330 and a320 series? Or am I wrong?

As far as I know, they don't. They do however allow for quick crew training across types due to Airbuses 'Cross Crew Qualification' system due to the way the cockpits are designed to a common layout - it cuts crew training significantly.
 
iwok
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:10 am

Does this mean the overall nose is going back to the original design? Or, are they just changing the flighdeck and keeping the 380 nose section? It appears to me that the former is true based on the view of the window panes on the 350 & 380.

iwok
 
gigneil
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Bells (Thread starter):
Are they doing the right thing, ie abandoning commonality? Can they have a common type rating anymore?



Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
Is that the important factor? I thought the a343 has a common type rating to the a330 and a320 series? Or am I wrong?

Absolutely not. Not even the A340 and A330 have the same type rating, they can't.

However, they will all basically handle the same and display information the same, which is what cockpit commonality is about.

Its called CCQ.

NS
 
ikramerica
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Bells (Thread starter):
Airbus has dropped the A380 cockpit for the A350 XWB and gone for bigger screens like the 787.

So, before they had the A380 cockpit wrapped in a new shaped enclosure. From the outside it looked like a 787 nose, but from the inside it felt like the A380.

Now they have adopted the A380 enclosure but have a new cockpit interior? From the outside the nose looks like the A380/A320 series, but inside, it's an all new design?

Or am I not reading the news from the last few days right?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
georgiaame
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:56 am

Okay, I'm not a pilot, and even my Microsoft skills are wanting at best. Flames on people! Is it possible that even Airbus has realized it has a dud on its hands?
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
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Revelation
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:28 am

Cup holders! It needs more cup holders!
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luisca
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):
Quoting Bells (Thread starter):
Are they doing the right thing, ie abandoning commonality? Can they have a common type rating anymore?

They couldn't have had a common type rating anyway (twin vs. quad).



Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):
They couldn't have had a common type rating anyway (twin vs. quad).

Is that the important factor? I thought the a343 has a common type rating to the a330 and a320 series? Or am I wrong?

The A330 and A340 have the same type rating, the A320 is a different one and the A380 is a different one, The advantage is that cross training is easier if you fly one of these aircraft and transition to another, it should not be a problem for the A350 since the information is basically the same.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
wjcandee
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:42 am

I thought that the idea was to have a common type rating with the A330, not the A380.
 
redflyer
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
Quoting Badge (Reply 7):
Looks like they have gone to the Boeing style rudder pedals.

What's the difference in rudder pedals? I thought they already worked the same.

Don't you know the advantage of the Boeing rudder pedal system? It has a slide out tray that lets you hang your socks on to air them out. You can't do that on an Airbus! They need to go to the Boeing style rudder pedals. Pilots always prefer them once they've been trained to use them.  Smile
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sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:27 pm

Nice job by airbus to give A350 bigger 15 " X ? wide screen displays. Boeing features 5 12X9" displays in 787,

Overall I like Boeings flightdeck better, its more space technology-esque, at least the CG of it. The A350 is very very nice though and I like it 10 times more than other Airbus flight decks, which in my view, are only a notch above that goofy Phthalocyanine blue Russian flight decks.

The A380 pic looks like, the flightdeck of a Russian version of the 747.
 
Maersk737
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 20):
Don't you know the advantage of the Boeing rudder pedal system? It has a slide out tray that lets you hang your socks on to air them out. You can't do that on an Airbus! They need to go to the Boeing style rudder pedals. Pilots always prefer them once they've been trained to use them.

 laughing 

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HowSwedeitis
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:29 pm

I especially like the palm-rests on the GPS systems.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Cup holders! It needs more cup holders!

 checkmark  I want my happy pilot to be able to set his coffee down!!  Smile
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Grbld
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 21):
Nice job by airbus to give A350 bigger 15 " X ? wide screen displays. Boeing features 5 12X9" displays in 787

Do the math, a 15" diagonal screen is EXACTLY the same size as a 12" by 9" screen! It's only that Boeing always mentions the width and height of the screens (ie. B777 = 8 x 8 inch).
 
turkishaviator
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:15 pm

Does that mean A380 cockpit has gone obsolete before it's EIS ?
If it ain't Boeing I am not going
 
kappel
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:03 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 12):
As far as I know, they don't. They do however allow for quick crew training across types due to Airbuses 'Cross Crew Qualification' system due to the way the cockpits are designed to a common layout - it cuts crew training significantly.



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
Absolutely not. Not even the A340 and A330 have the same type rating, they can't.

However, they will all basically handle the same and display information the same, which is what cockpit commonality is about.

Its called CCQ.



Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
The A330 and A340 have the same type rating, the A320 is a different one and the A380 is a different one, The advantage is that cross training is easier if you fly one of these aircraft and transition to another, it should not be a problem for the A350 since the information is basically the same.



Quoting Moo (Reply 12):
As far as I know, they don't. They do however allow for quick crew training across types due to Airbuses 'Cross Crew Qualification' system due to the way the cockpits are designed to a common layout - it cuts crew training significantly.



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
Absolutely not. Not even the A340 and A330 have the same type rating, they can't.

However, they will all basically handle the same and display information the same, which is what cockpit commonality is about.

Its called CCQ.

NS



Quoting Luisca (Reply 18):
The A330 and A340 have the same type rating, the A320 is a different one and the A380 is a different one, The advantage is that cross training is easier if you fly one of these aircraft and transition to another, it should not be a problem for the A350 since the information is basically the same.

Thanks for the input guys. Guess I misunderstood the concept of cockpit commonality.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 20):
Don't you know the advantage of the Boeing rudder pedal system? It has a slide out tray that lets you hang your socks on to air them out. You can't do that on an Airbus! They need to go to the Boeing style rudder pedals. Pilots always prefer them once they've been trained to use them.

 Big grin
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tdscanuck
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting TurkishAviator (Reply 25):
Does that mean A380 cockpit has gone obsolete before it's EIS ?

No. Obsolescence of avionics of that cockpit is going to be over 10 years, baring a huge technology breakthrough that nobody knows about yet.

Tom.
 
sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: New A350 XWB Cockpit Design Unveiled

Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting Grbld (Reply 24):
Do the math, a 15"

I'm saying I think the Airbus screens are wider than the Boeing; 15 wide instead of 12. Dont the Airbus screens look more wideview to you?

I'm guessing they're 15x8 or 9. So good for Airbus and the pilots who fly the A350. Wider screens are easier to work with.

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