CRJ900X
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:47 am

BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:22 am

Hey all,

Just curious to know which operators still have aircraft (Q400's) on the ground. I realize that SAS still has their entire fleet on the ground so that they can be repaired. Would the other operators be Wideroe and Augsburg that have the grounded Q-400's?

The article from the National Post:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...ec0-4911-b881-e5de3de3dc29&k=39902

I have also found it interesting that Wideroe has one Q400 on order from Bombardier. I wonder if they will try and cancel the order due to problems experienced with the fleet.

Cheers,

CRJ900X
 
bennett123
Posts: 7527
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:32 am

"We've had main landing gear events, which I think we've addressed very proactively," he said. "Now we have an incident with the front landing gear, which is a very different system."

How is it proactive. Are the main and nose gear all manufactured by Goodrich.

"While the incidents are "odd," Mr. Beaudoin said to his knowledge the causes are unrelated because they originated from different problems. "We're doing an audit. I have no reason to believe that the [landing gear] system is not safe," he said.

It has been a rocky year for the Q400, which also had two other emergency landings in Japan in March after a faulty electrical switch failed to drop the front landing gear. That switch has been replaced on all Q400s".

At what point would he believe that the landing gear is not safe.
 
Someone83
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:15 am

Wideroe still has all their 4 Q400 grounded and as they are part of the SAS Group they will most likely be grounded as long as SAS' Q400 are grounded
 
prebennorholm
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:34 am

Extracts from SAS press release, two day s old:

"SAS has decided to exchange all parts in the landing gear which contributed to the accident in AAL (actuator piston and rod ends) regardless if needed or not. We are cooperating with Bombardier and Goodrich - landing gear producer - about supply of the needed spare parts, but spares availability is a bottleneck, and supply takes longer time than expected.

We expect that the checks and exchange of components needed will mean that our Q400 will be grounded for at least one more week.

SAS will not reintroduce the planes until we have got a preliminary report from the accident investigation board in Vilnius, and we will also demand full knowledge about the reason for an incident with a Q400 belonging to Augsburg Airways (Lufthansa Regional) in Munich.

An approval from the Scandinavian aviation authorities is also mandatory. Following that all planes will pass an extensive test program and test flights before they finally can gradually be put into service again"


So maybe next week a few SAS Q400 mights fly again.

SAS has taken a different approach compared to most operators. SAS will only fly again when all corroded parts have been exchanged with new ones, even if several planes may have suffered only insignificant corrosion. And when an absolutely safe inspection and maintenance procedure has been established. With the extremely high profile these accidents have got here in Scandinavia, then anything less than that would also be business-wise suicide.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
CPHGuard
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:58 pm

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3):
and we will also demand full knowledge about the reason for an incident with a Q400 belonging to Augsburg Airways

I beleive that the reason for the Augsburg incident has already been clarified.

A broken spring in the front gear, seems to be the cause.
 
DYflyer
Posts: 564
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
I have also found it interesting that Wideroe has one Q400 on order from Bombardier. I wonder if they will try and cancel the order due to problems experienced with the fleet.

Unless they are told by SAS to cancel i think they will take the delivery. The Q400 has worked well in Wideroes fleet, and i think they need more planes. Also the press hasn´t been so bad here in Norway as in e.g. Denmark, so i think most PAX wouldn´t have any problem flying with a Q400 (or even know what type of plane they are flying with).
Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6444
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:19 am

SAS is planning to initiate Q400 ops on Thursday 4th October.

The first planes have now been rebuilt and are being tested.

From 4th October more and more planes will be released for service, and not too many days later the whole fleet is expected to be in service again.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Alessandro
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:38 pm

They had an flight today where a Q400 had to go back to Copenhagen, faulty indications on the instruments.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Someone83
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:00 pm

Think they still have a few Q400 (in addtion to those Q400 in AAlborg and Vilnius) that are still grounded. Most Q400 flights have now been resumed howevere a few flights are still cancelled for the rest of the week.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 7):
They had an flight today where a Q400 had to go back to Copenhagen, faulty indications on the instruments.

Yes, the morning plane from Copenhagen to Gdansk in Poland returned to CPH. An indicator told that a nose wheel door didn't close properly, or at least it didn't do so in first attempt. A very trivial thing, had it not been on a Q400.

That event was blown totally out of proportion only because it happened on a Q400. This whole country has gone totally crazy about anything related to the Q400.

At the same time, or slightly later, a 737 (not SAS plane) during engine start-up almost put the whole airport on fire. That incident was only mentioned in the press because all journalists had rushed to the scene to hear about a bee of wasp which had committed suicide on a Q400 nose wheel door switch.

Still the Q400 got by far the most press coverage. I wonder when and how this drama will end. If I was a SAS manager, then I could see only two options: Get rid of those planes or change their name.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
prebennorholm
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:10 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 8):
Think they still have a few Q400 (in addtion to those Q400 in AAlborg and Vilnius) that are still grounded. Most Q400 flights have now been resumed howevere a few flights are still cancelled for the rest of the week.

Next Monday or Tuesday all 27 planes (excluding the broken ones) will have been modified, tested and put into service again.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
MCO2BRS
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:30 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 4):

What happened to the Augsburg Q400 in MUC? I haven't heard about this one?
 
prebennorholm
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 11):
What happened to the Augsburg Q400 in MUC? I haven't heard about this one?

It landed with nose wheel retracted - some defective sping in the system.

If it's back in service, I don't know. But in any case it received very modest damage compared to the SAS planes with collapsed MLG, especially the first one in AAL.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
AgnusBymaster
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:37 pm

The problem with the Q400 is that basically all the parts were subcontracted to different vendors unlike previous Bombardier aircraft. So, they obviously still had some learning curve as far as making it work seemlessly, although this is a problem Boeing is experiencing too.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting AgnusBymaster (Reply 13):
The problem with the Q400 is that basically all the parts were subcontracted to different vendors unlike previous Bombardier aircraft.

The Q400 landing gear, which caused all this mess, is subcontracted to Goodrich - same subcontractor as Dash-8-100, -200 and -300 landing gears. But it's a different design.

But on the Q400 many more systems were subcontracted compared to the -100/-200/-300.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
na
Posts: 9207
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RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:04 pm

That the SAS Q400 will be flying sooner or later is clear. What about the two SAS aircraft which were damaged, one very severe? Will they be repaired or not?
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6444
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 15):
What about the two SAS aircraft which were damaged, one very severe? Will they be repaired or not?

No hard data yet.

The Vilnius plane will surely fly again.

The Aalborg plane is much more severely damaged. Wing hit the ground at full landing speed as the spoilers were extended. Prop parts penetrated the pressurized part of the fuselage. If the wing main spar was bent, then I would assume that it is a write off. Then there is hardly anything left but good tail feathers and a good #1 engine.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
sxf24
Posts: 615
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 14):

The Q400 landing gear, which caused all this mess, is subcontracted to Goodrich - same subcontractor as Dash-8-100, -200 and -300 landing gears. But it's a different design.


I'm pretty sure the -100, -200 and -300 have landing gear from Messier-Dowty, with Goodrich brakes.
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 16):
The Aalborg plane is much more severely damaged. Wing hit the ground at full landing speed as the spoilers were extended. Prop parts penetrated the pressurized part of the fuselage. If the wing main spar was bent, then I would assume that it is a write off. Then there is hardly anything left but good tail feathers and a good #1 engine.

Haven't seen any announcement from SAS regarding this during tha last few weeks, but SAS claimed earlier that they would probably be able to fix the aircraft as the damages were less than expected
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:05 am

I'm not sure but I thought I saw an SAS one of these at LCY Yesterday ?

Did I ? or was it someone elses ? Eitherway I dont think ive seen too many of these at LCY.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
bmibaby737
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:07 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:40 pm

Information per Flysas.com

"SAS has reinstated the first Dash 8-400 (Q400) aircraft, unfortunately some traffic disturbance is still to be expected. For rebooking and more information, passengers are kindly asked to contact the place of purchase or SAS Sales Services in your country"
 
DYflyer
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 3:06 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 19):
I'm not sure but I thought I saw an SAS one of these at LCY Yesterday ?
Did I ? or was it someone elses ? Eitherway I dont think ive seen too many of these at LCY.

You probably saw correct. Some of the planes are now back in service, and SK uses the Q400 between CPH and LCY (they use an Avro from OSL and ARN).

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 20):
"SAS has reinstated the first Dash 8-400 (Q400) aircraft, unfortunately some traffic disturbance is still to be expected. For rebooking and more information, passengers are kindly asked to contact the place of purchase or SAS Sales Services in your country"

Still some flights are cancelled because of the problems. Today a total of 27 flights were cancelled.
Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded

Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:20 pm

The drama continues, an SAS Q400 had to turn around due to landing gear refused to fold into the plane.
Add the faulty engine indicator the other day and lack of spares to fix the rest of them.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...

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