LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:08 am

Ran across document highlighting the profit margin of US network carriers international flying for the 2nd quarter 2007 per ASM.

Atlantic
AA +17.7%
CO +38.2%
DL +3.2%
NW +27.7%
UA +27.1%
US +9.4%

Latin
AA +7.4%
CO +36.2%
DL (-1.3%)
UA +4.4%
US +16.8%

Pacific
AA +4.8%
CO +11.9%
DL +7.3%
NW (-1.2)
UA +15.9%

Couple things stand out for me
-DL Atlantic profitability margin lags its peers by far. Obviously lots of new routes have start up cost and take time to mature
-Surprised AA's Latin margins are not stronger consider is strenght in the region. CO outperforms everyone by far.
-NW loosing money on its vast Pacific network for the quarter.


Full document including additional charts can be found at: (subscription required)
http://www.aviationnow.com/publicati...C+By+Region%2C+Second+Quarter+2007
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
shane
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:38 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:14 am

Why such impressive performance by CO down south?
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:31 am

I suspect one reason for CO's Latin America success could be result of the many unique Mexico RJ routes it offers at IAH hub which attract a good deal of US business traffic.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:44 am

What's interesting about the CO numbers is that with such huge margins for international, domestic must have continued to be a real stinker since CO's overall Q2 2007 operating margin was only 7.1%...
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
I suspect one reason for CO's Latin America success could be result of the many unique Mexico RJ routes it offers at IAH hub which attract a good deal of US business traffic.

That is absolutely the key there. Also, remember that they do a fair bit do South America as well.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 3):
domestic must have continued to be a real stinker since CO's overall Q2 2007 operating margin was only 7.1%...

Well, not necessarily. Remember that a lot of those international margins are bolstered by writing down the cost of getting the people to a hub as a loss. Creative accounting.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 3):
domestic must have continued to be a real stinker since CO's overall Q2 2007 operating margin was only 7.1%...

 checkmark  CO domestic had a -3.9% operating margin in Q2.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15252
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
-NW loosing money on its vast Pacific network for the quarter.

I thought NW's Pacific network was just not as profitable as everyone thought; turns out it's just not profitable. That NRT hub has got to be one expensive albatross.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
That NRT hub has got to be one expensive albatross.

Actually, I would bet that the expensive albatross is all the flights out of MSP.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting Shane (Reply 1):
Why such impressive performance by CO down south?

I think the bigger question is why are DL's numbers to the region so unimpressive.
a.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
I think the bigger question is why are DL's numbers to the region so unimpressive.

Too many thin money-bleeding routes on f'n CRJs would be my guess  Wink , at least part of the problem.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):

I think the bigger question is why are DL's numbers to the region so unimpressive.

JFK is the primary cause for the Atlantic. That was largely addressed today.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 3):
What's interesting about the CO numbers is that with such huge margins for international, domestic must have continued to be a real stinker since CO's overall Q2 2007 operating margin was only 7.1%...

absolutely.

Selective cutting and pasting of data is irresponsible; I'm not sure that Avaition daily considers leaving out 1 of 4 data groupings is enough to protect their copyrights.

If laxintl had also posted the domestic numbers, we would see that CO was not profitable in the domestic arena (again) and that DL, NW, and US were all very profitable (more than 2 cents per ASM on their domestic system).

GIven that no US airline is more than 50% international, you can't be competitive financially unless you can make money domestically.

DL is clearly making money on its domestic system in bucket loads in order to help support its international expansion.

Despite NW's substantial domestic and transatlantic profits, it lost money on their Pacific system at the same rate DL did in Latin America (very small).

Note also that UA said that it is considering asset sales (Chicago Trib). Perhaps their NRT hub since UA is profitable and has many NRT overfly routes while NW does not. NRT is valuable for the local traffic rights but not as a hub.

Also, note that US' numbers are for US East. HP lost money.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
If laxintl had also posted the domestic numbers,

Thread is about Intl profitability, hence no need or desire to list domestic earnings.

There has been much growth and focus on international flying by US carriers recent years, and felt it would be interesting to see how carriers stack up profitwise with their peers.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
Selective cutting and pasting of data is irresponsible; I'm not sure that Avaition daily considers leaving out 1 of 4 data groupings is enough to protect their copyrights.

I actually left very much out. RASM, CASM, yield charts were excluded. I simply posted a summary of their operating margins.

For the full data, either sift thru the DOT data directly, or subscribe to AvDaily for the combined pretty charts.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
flavio340
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:10 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:17 am

[QUOTE]Note also that UA said that it is considering asset sales (Chicago Trib). Perhaps their NRT hub since UA is profitable and has many NRT overfly routes while NW does not. NRT is valuable for the local traffic rights but not as a hub.[QUOTE]

WorldTraveler I am sorry I have not read the article but are you saying that UA is considering selling off its NRT hub? That would not surprise me since all of their Asian routes are accessible either direct from SFO, or through HKG.

Who would be some potential buyers for NRT? My money would be on AA
Also does anyone know if UA can sell the hub with the way the bilateral is written? It is my understanding that it has to be an operating certificate change, much like when AA bought TWA to get the access to LHR.

I find it surprising that all the carriers (CO excepted) posted their weakest margins in the areas where the airlines have the strongest presence. AA Latin America (+7.4), DL Atlantic (+3.2), UA pacific (+15.9), NW Pacific (-1.2), US Atlantic (+9.4)
Could this be because this is where the airlines have the most seats flying therefore the greatest chance of flying empty seats during off peak times?
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
Thread is about Intl profitability, hence no need or desire to list domestic earnings.

which is meaningless. No airline operates as an international or domestic entity. They are one airline.

Failing to properly address (or even bother to mention the total picture) is irresponsible.

It also is irresponsible to fail to show the capacity changes in each of those entities. The reason why some airlines (like DL) are making money domestically now is because they cut capacity. Believe it or not, not all carriers are adding capacity in every entity. CO's Latin capacity is virtually flat while UA continues to pull capacity to Latin America - major drivers in determining profitability.

I read the data and know exactly what it said... and what you excluded.

Again, use the data responsibly or leave it to people who will.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
which is meaningless. No airline operates as an international or domestic entity. They are one airline.

Failing to properly address (or even bother to mention the total picture) is irresponsible.

It also is irresponsible to fail to show the capacity changes in each of those entities. The reason why some airlines (like DL) are making money domestically now is because they cut capacity. Believe it or not, not all carriers are adding capacity in every entity. CO's Latin capacity is virtually flat while UA continues to pull capacity to Latin America - major drivers in determining profitability.

I read the data and know exactly what it said... and what you excluded.

Again, use the data responsibly or leave it to people who will.

Oh please. He posted an interesting comparison of profit margins on US airlines for various international regions. I think it is interesting data, and I am glad he posted it. He didn't draw "irresponsible" conclusions or anything like that.

Your use of the word "irresponsible" is irresponsible (and silly).
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
which is meaningless. No airline operates as an international or domestic entity. They are one airline. Failing to properly address (or even bother to mention the total picture) is irresponsible.

As I said its meant to look at International margins of US carriers. You want to know about their domestic performance then you can research them.

At the end of the day, if you dont like this topic, then disregard it. Others have found the information interesting.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:34 am

no, I will not disregard it. You can either RESPONSIBLY post the total picture or other people will do it for you and trash your credibility in the process.

Data can be manipulated any number of ways... cutting a piece here or there is irresponsible and exactly why people like you will be challenged when you fail to appropriately handle it.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 15):
Oh please. He posted an interesting comparison of profit margins on US airlines for various international regions. I think it is interesting data, and I am glad he posted it. He didn't draw "irresponsible" conclusions or anything like that.

Don't try to argue. The numbers aren't flattering for Delta, so therefore they are not good figures. Pretty simple.
a.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:51 am

it has nothing to do with Delta. They aren't terribly flattering for AA but I didn't go there.

It also would lead one to not know that NW's domestic operation significantly supports its Pacific operation. On the other hand, CO's sterling international results mean very little when they lose money domestically (unique among network carriers) and had one of the lowest profit margins among US carriers for the quarter this data represents.

The point is that a few data points were pulled out of an article and presented. If you want to have an intelligent discussion, present all the facts and correctly interpret them.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
Data can be manipulated any number of ways

What did I manipulate? I simply posted a summary of each carrier International margins.

If you want to introduce facts about how domestic operations might prop up, or drag down international earnings then fine, however the international earning margins are what they are, and the topic of this post.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:13 am

You simply do not want to understand that pulling a few random pieces of data out of a report and presenting them are not accepted in the business world or journalism. Do you see articles showing these kinds of stats in any published forum? Why do you think aviation daily presented them in a holistic picture - only to have you rip out pieces and present them in isolation.

I would strongly suggest that you learn to properly use the data you touch whether it be about airline profitability, mortgage rates, or fuel prices.
 
COflyerBOS
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:04 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:38 am

Irresponsible?

This is a message board for aviation enthusiasts. I find information on the profitablity of international flying on USA metal fascinating. It isn't for you to police these boards and approve/disapprove of topics of discussion.

Quite frankly, if you don't like it, start your own post about domestic flying. I'd be interested to read that one too. I am not overly interested in you taking over yet another thread with your Delta is the NEW WORLD ORDER propaganda.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
it has nothing to do with Delta. They aren't terribly flattering for AA but I didn't go there.

Of course you didn't, because AA's are a lot better than DL's.

The point is that people can view this data as they like. Just because it doesn't give a complete picture, doesn't mean it doesn't give part of the picture. That's what people here are discussing.
a.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15252
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Actually, I would bet that the expensive albatross is all the flights out of MSP.

2 NRT flights with very unique connections in the Midwest sank the entire Pacific region?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:16 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
There has been much growth and focus on international flying by US carriers recent years, and felt it would be interesting to see how carriers stack up profitwise with their peers.

To get back to your topic, currency translations should be interesting this quarter and will probably cost all the US international carriers something.

We're only a couple of weeks away from fresh numbers.  Smile
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 25):
currency translations should be interesting this quarter and will probably cost all the US international carriers something.

Yes the weak dollar can indeed shift numbers, however for some carriers favorably.

For instance at United, it was internally mentioned the Atlantic division is on track to being its most profitable segment this year even with lower ASM compared to the Pacific partially thanks to strong Euro and the significant sales revenue production on the EU side of the Atlantic. In otherwords, UA gets a larger portion of revenue in more valuable Euro's while majority of its cost are in the weaker USD. Can buy more USDs for each Euro then ever before.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
You simply do not want to understand that pulling a few random pieces of data out of a report and presenting them are not accepted in the business world or journalism. Do you see articles showing these kinds of stats in any published forum? Why do you think aviation daily presented them in a holistic picture - only to have you rip out pieces and present them in isolation.

damn kid go start a thread with the numbers from the "business world" that some folks seem to have a better grasp of than others....
Delta's Int'l numbers are not great, get over it. (maybe I can bring in a random unposted ranking-) Are service rankings skewed also, that show CO as top US carrier?

This is not a journalism site, and not a subscription business site.



Ciao,
AWACS, Io sono il capo di tutti capi
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 26):
Yes the weak dollar can indeed shift numbers, however for some carriers favorably.

It's an area where the airlines are used to hedging and their hedges don't need to be very long-term to afford protection. Still, I bet we'll see somebody on the wrong side of the trade.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 26):
In otherwords, UA gets a larger portion of revenue in more valuable Euro's while majority of its cost are in the weaker USD.

Good for UA. The comparisons among airlines will be straight apples to apples in this case and should be interesting.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15252
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
DL is clearly making money on its domestic system in bucket loads in order to help support its international expansion.

Are you sure?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BA744PHX
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
DL is clearly making money on its domestic system in bucket loads in order to help support its international expansion.

If that is the case why are they reducing their domestic flying????? I would think if they are making money they would expand to make more not reduce to make less.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):

I read the data and know exactly what it said... and what you excluded.

Again, use the data responsibly or leave it to people who will.

You know I have read this forum for many many years and I find it funny that when someone post something negative about DL you are quick to come up with some excuse on why its that way or how the data is wrong. However if someone post something positive no questions asked they must be right since its DL with their glorious hub in ATL.

Now all I would like to say is GET OVER IT!!! Delta is not the crown jewel you make it to be, and no offense to all the other DL fan's out there and trust me I use to be one, BUT that is one messed up airline. Sure they keep adding new international routes but god forbid another 9/11 or any other major world event is to occur, which airline is going to get hit the worse??? The one that decided to put all their eggs in one basket!!! DL
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 30):
Sure they keep adding new international routes but god forbid another 9/11 or any other major world event is to occur, which airline is going to get hit the worse??? The one that decided to put all their eggs in one basket!!! DL

I think the ones that will get hit the worst will be those with the worst debt ratios; and it won't take another 9/11 to do it - not even a serious recession - just a business slow-down, which unfortunately is looking fairly likely.
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 30):
Sure they keep adding new international routes but god forbid another 9/11 or any other major world event is to occur, which airline is going to get hit the worse??? The one that decided to put all their eggs in one basket!!! DL

Actually, if one would take a moment and actually look at all the facts and stats, one would realize that even with all the international expansion, DL's international ops are still a smaller percentage of total revenues/RPMs/ASMs than most other legacies. In fact, I would say that CO is the one with the greatest proportion of its 'eggs' in the international basket of all the legacies. The reason that DL is growing internationally more now than other legacies is because it has always lagged behind the other legacies in international vs. domestic. As recently as 2005, DL's international to domestic ratio was 20:80 while carriers like AA and UA were more in the 40:60 range....
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5271
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Don't try to argue. The numbers aren't flattering for Delta, so therefore they are not good figures. Pretty simple.

Amen.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 29):
Are you sure?

Yes. DL's domestic system is quite profitable. As you know, DL has shifted a lot of capacity from domestic to international. This has greatly improved domestic margins, but obviously done some damage on the international side. DL' s long-term hope is that all these international routes mature and contribute positively.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 32):
DL's international ops are still a smaller percentage of total revenues/RPMs/ASMs than most other legacies.

True, but probably not for much longer. As of August, DL was a 35/65 split int'l versus domestic ASM's. But look at all the new routes coming. And as you and others have pointed out, the routes announced so far still don't account for all the 757's coming. And we also know DL has more 777's coming. DL could very well hit the 50/50 mark by 2009.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15252
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 33):
Yes. DL's domestic system is quite profitable.

Do you have a link or something? I'm just surprised Smile
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5271
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Do you have a link or something? I'm just surprised

I don't have the link, but even if you don't believe me, you can see the profits just by looking at the international numbers.

Internationally, DL has margins of 3.2, -1.3 and 7.3%. However, systemwide DL posted a 9.3% operating profit. If DL's international numbers are all below 9.3%, then clearly the domestic piece has to be higher to balance it out.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:15 am

Let me reiterate once again that I have no problem with anyone posting any facts that are relevant - but do it inclusively and responsibly. Throwing out a bunch of data that has no meaning in and of itself has no value. And despite all the discussion about whether posting the data is the right thing to do, precious few of you have been able to come up with any salient conclusions from the little bit of data that was posted. What difference does it make that AA has a better profit margin to Latin America than DL and what are they doing to protect that - and who is bent on reducing AA's profitability (see the DL wants to be #1 in Latin America thread for that discussion). Statistics are to be tools to help come up with meaningful conclusions but can only do so if you can use the data in a relevant and meaningful way.

This chart probably won't paste correctly but I'll try. It includes all DOT reporting regions and the profitability and change from 2006 to 2007 for each airline in that region.

Note that the combined entity is the only one that matters... how companies internally subsidize their regions doesn't matter. Every airline has strong regions and weak ones, including domestic vs. international.

And if you think I'm out to make DL look the best, this data doesn't do it. DL's profitability per ASM on a combined basis ranks it #3 out of 6 (note that US data is for US east because HP (which lost money in the 2nd quarter) was a separate entity as of this DOT report).
The data is complete, however. And you can draw meaningful conclusions from seeing data for their entire system.

2006 2007
Atlantic AA P/L 2.28 2.22
P/L diff (0.06)
CO P/L 2.65 3.38
P/L diff 0.73
DL P/L (0.11) 0.37
P/L diff 0.48
NW P/L 1.83 2.41
P/L diff 0.58
UA P/L 1.11 3.00
P/L diff 1.89
US P/L 5.74 1.41
P/L diff (4.33)

Latin AA P/L 0.96 0.95
P/L diff (0.01)
CO P/L 2.84 3.53
P/L diff 0.69
DL P/L (0.66) (0.14)
P/L diff 0.52
NW P/L 0.00 0.00
P/L diff 0.00
UA P/L (0.39) 0.48
P/L diff 0.87
US P/L 1.37 2.49
P/L diff 1.12

Pacific AA P/L (0.46) 1.08
P/L diff 1.54
CO P/L 0.62 1.15
P/L diff 0.53
DL P/L 1.74 0.94
P/L diff (0.80)
NW P/L (1.30) (0.14)
P/L diff 1.16
UA P/L 0.18 1.61
P/L diff 1.43
US P/L 1.37 0.00
P/L diff 0.00

Domestic AA P/L 0.83 0.59
P/L diff (0.24)
CO P/L (0.12) (0.67)
P/L diff (0.55)
DL P/L 1.86 2.24
P/L diff 0.38
NW P/L 2.45 2.28
P/L diff (0.17)
UA P/L 0.91 1.10
P/L diff 0.19
US P/L 1.54 3.04
P/L diff 1.50

Combined AA P/L 0.94 0.92
P/L diff (0.02)
CO P/L 0.99 1.01
P/L diff 0.02
DL P/L 1.16 1.46
P/L diff 0.30
NW P/L 1.40 1.66
P/L diff 0.26
UA P/L 0.72 1.46
P/L diff 0.74
US P/L 2.31 2.64
P/L diff 0.33
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 36):
Let me reiterate once again that I have no problem with anyone posting any facts that are relevant - but do it inclusively and responsibly. Throwing out a bunch of data that has no meaning in and of itself has no value

You are not a moderator (thank god) nor the forum police. People can post whatever they like, agenda or not in your mind.
You posted your numbers, fine. Others can post theirs. Time to be a big boy.

Would you like to share how badly Delta ranked in the Forbes customer service thread? Share with us how those numbers are skewed too....

Ciao,
AWACS, Europe, we have no easy button
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 35):
I don't have the link, but even if you don't believe me, you can see the profits just by looking at the international numbers.Internationally, DL has margins of 3.2, -1.3 and 7.3%. However, systemwide DL posted a 9.3% operating profit. If DL's international numbers are all below 9.3%, then clearly the domestic piece has to be higher to balance it out.

Fun, fun, fun. Second quarter numbers. How about the first quarter and the fourth quarter? We know second and third quarters are the best for international, but those quarters alone don't make for true profitability. That is only determined by the full four calender quarters.
 
justapassenger
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:36 pm

RE: US Carriers International Route Profitability

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:30 pm

Worldtraveler,

If I say that DL’s international numbers are surprisingly good for an airline with such a high percentage of new routes with large start up costs; would you still think I was using the data irresponsibly?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 747fan, adambrau, adamh8297, AMAZON, antoniemey, Bing [Bot], CCFA, CLEguy, Dutchy, flyoregon, Google Adsense [Bot], jetmatt777, KrustyTheKlown, OA412, obla, smokeybandit, SyeaphanR, transit, travelhound, United1, USPIT10L, zkanz and 326 guests