Leskova
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Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:41 pm

Lufthansa has decided not to purchase the 75% of DE that is currently held by Thomas Cook (for which they had first rights); instead, they will sell their 24.9% to Thomas Cook in 2009, to which they - contractually - must hold on for one year. As a result, the airline Condor will be integrated into Air Berlin in the first months of 2010.

While Air Berlin will eventually get the airline, they won't be getting the name "Condor" - while there's obviously the question of whether they wanted the name in the first place.

What do you think - will LH restart a new Condor once the name has disappeared? By 2010, with LTU all but disappearing into Air Berlin in the short term (and I'm not convinced that the LTU brand will remain for longhauls, as currently planned), Condor will be the last of the "good old" traditional names of German charter carriers to vanish (after what TUI, for whatever reason, did to Hapag Lloyd Flug).

So far I've only found these links in German (the second requires a subscription)
http://www.faz.net/s/RubC8BA5576CDEE...2FCA799~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html
http://www.faz.net/IN/INtemplates/fa...E4A7C-4D51-4EF4-9385-D627A87356A9}
http://www.ftd.de/unternehmen/handel...:Air%20Berlin%20Condor/259197.html

... and this in English:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/12c2e358-67db-11dc-8906-0000779fd2ac.html
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columba
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:04 pm

Quoting Leskova (Thread starter):
What do you think - will LH restart a new Condor once the name has disappeared?

Could be LH holds the name of various airlines that don´t exist anymore (German Cargo, Sudflug etc...).At least once they used one of these names again with Germanwings.
Condor also was the name of a South American subsidiary of LH from the 1920s and 30s.
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TriStar500
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:05 pm

Quoting Leskova (Thread starter):
What do you think - will LH restart a new Condor once the name has disappeared?

I don't think so. The inclusive tour business has sharply declined in the recent years thanks to the advent of individualized internet-based booking tools, thus marginalizing the return from seat block sales to tour operators. Lufthansa will continue to concentrate on a two-tier strategy, flying standard- and high-yielding traffic with their own metal and offering somewhat discounted and lower-frequency flights to some of the more popular traditional sun destinations in the short- and medium haul sector through their LCC offspring Germanwings.
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columba
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
I don't think so. The inclusive tour business has sharply declined in the recent years thanks to the advent of individualized internet-based booking tools, thus marginalizing the return from seat block sales to tour operators. Lufthansa will continue to concentrate on a two-tier strategy, flying standard- and high-yielding traffic with their own metal and offering somewhat discounted and lower-frequency flights to some of the more popular traditional sun destinations in the short- and medium haul sector through their LCC offspring Germanwings.

I agree that they will not go back into the tour and charter business but for another company they might use it. Condor is very known brand in Germany and the name itself has some value. A new low cost carrier in Italy (like it was once planned) the new cargo airline or a subsidiary elsewhere could profit from the Condor name because people -at least in Germany know - that behind Condor is Lufthansa. Because of that I never have thought that LH would get rid of the name.
The name Condor is and will always be associate with LH.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
LH506
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting Leskova (Thread starter):
Lufthansa has decided not to purchase the 75% of DE that is currently held by Thomas Cook (for which they had first rights); instead, they will sell their 24.9% to Thomas Cook in 2009, to which they - contractually - must hold on for one year. As a result, the airline Condor will be integrated into Air Berlin in the first months of 2010

What are the chances of LH flying directly some DE routes after the sale, like DKR, SJO (TA hub), HAV or SDQ ? AF does fly some more touristic routes, to some extend also BA.
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MAH4546
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting Leskova (Thread starter):
and I'm not convinced that the LTU brand will remain for longhauls, as currently planned)

Flights to China and the US will be rebranded as Air Berlin next year, though other destinations will stay as LTU for now. I think, as you do, that they just might all become Air Berlin.
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PanHAM
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:05 pm

LH holds on to the names it bought over the years. Especially after that marketing desaster of re branding Condor as "Thomas Cook" it has proven to keep well established brand names.

Whatever will be done with the name remains to be seen, however, "Condor Cargo" would be a good name for that joint outfit with DHL.
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columba
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Whatever will be done with the name remains to be seen, however, "Condor Cargo" would be a good name for that joint outfit with DHL.

They also hold the name "German Cargo" if they use an older name then I guess this brand will see a resurrection.
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johnnybgoode
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:32 pm

i do agree that LH will not enter the leisure business anymore, as it did with Thomas Cook and Condor. however, I have always believed that LH could benefit from lower cost longhaul airline to develop (low-yield) destinations, something like QF did with Jetstar.

take a look at MCO. DE served it for quite some time, at times even thrice weekly and with a LH codeshare, and now LH decided to start its own services. perhaps there could be a role for such a carrier to delevop routes which are not viable for LH. I think this could be a model for the future, and this is where the name Condor could come in again.

...but, of course, that's just my two cents, and perhaps wishful thinking...
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PanHAM
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 7):

They also hold the name "German Cargo" if they use an older name then I guess this brand will see a resurrection.

Yes, sure.But German Cargo became Lufthansa Cargo AG. They might do it, but naming the new joint venture "German Cargo" would mean putting oil into the fire.

The freight forwarders, who are Lufthansa Cargo's main customers are very anxious about that. outfit. The DVZ poll of this week scored 75% yes on the question "Do you believe that LH looses its neutrality with the new ,
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LTU932
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting Leskova (Thread starter):
Lufthansa has decided not to purchase the 75% of DE that is currently held by Thomas Cook (for which they had first rights); instead, they will sell their 24.9% to Thomas Cook in 2009, to which they - contractually - must hold on for one year. As a result, the airline Condor will be integrated into Air Berlin in the first months of 2010.

Another important question is: what do the Federal Antitrust Authorities (Bundeskartellamt) got to say about this? One of the articles only says that there may be several conditions that could be imposed on this takeover, but nothing else is said.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:21 am

Should be a big change for Condor then. At the moment when we board their 767s (they have to do a security check before entering the USA (Alaska), and because all their ground handling at YXY is done by Air North, us Air North groomers get to do it), it is clearly a Condor aircraft, but signs and clues of Lufthansa are all over (pillows and blankets are all LH, the crews seem to be very close to LH, the food looks LHish....


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PanHAM
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):

Another important question is: what do the Federal Antitrust Authorities (Bundeskartellamt) got to s

With a little help from TUIfly, that should be no problem. They plan long distance flights and that should settle that.

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 11):
it is clearly a Condor aircraft, but signs and clues of Lufthansa are all over (pillows and blankets are all LH, the crews seem to be very close to LH, the food looks LHish....

That is a much bigger problem for Air Berlin. Most Pilots have the right to return to LH in their contracts. LH is expanding which means they likely have jobs to offer, LHCargo even recruits Pilots who have no LH internal training.
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johnnybgoode
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RE: Condor To Air Berlin In 2010, Name To Stay With LH

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:57 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
Most Pilots have the right to return to LH in their contracts. LH is expanding which means they likely have jobs to offer,

as in the last years, LH is notoriously low on flight crews. rumors have it that LH supports this AB/DE takeover as it means the vast majority of DE pilots can switch to LH, thereby resolving their low staff levels. however, this contradicts the information that this deal won't close before 2010, which means until then there will be no pilots leaving DE for LH.
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