gilesdavies
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NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:28 pm

I was interested to know a little more about NWA's hub at AMS and exactly how it works...

I was interested to know what exact type of aircraft and routes are flown by NWA metal, as it is extremely difficult to differentiate them from KLM flights. Does NWA genuinely base aircraft at AMS, and fly to non NWA hubs in the USA?

Also does NWA fly to any non US destinations from AMS, or is it purely a hub to connect on to the KLM flights to other worldwide destinations?

Does NWA employ Dutch flight crew and cabin staff? Do they also maintain aircraft their?

Im just interested to see how AMS compared to their own US bases like DTW and MSP.
 
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LTU932
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Also does NWA fly to any non US destinations from AMS

I believe NW flies to India through AMS with full 5th Freedom Rights.
 
petertenthije
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:22 pm

Here's a list of todays flights operated by NW. You'll see there is one flight going outside the USA, the Bmobay flight.

NW0040 DTW A333
NW0098 BDL B752
NW0042 MSP A333
NW0033 BOM A332
NW0068 DTW A333
NW0034 SEA A332
NW0038 BOS A333
NW0054 DTW A333
NW0046 MSP A333
NW0060 BOS B752
NW0058 MEM A332
NW0036 DTW B752
NW0048 DTW A333
NW0056 MSP A333

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Do they also maintain aircraft their?

KLM does that for them at Amsterdam.
Attamottamotta!
 
nwa757300
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
what exact type of aircraft

757-200s, A330-300/200s

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
routes are flown by NWA metal

AMS-DTW/MSP/MEM - Mix of 330's and 757's out of DTW.
AMS-BOS/BDL/SEA - BOS operated with 330 and 757. BDL operated with 757. SEA operated with 330.
AMS-IAD/EWR/JFK - KLM and NW take turns using their own metal on these routes. Depending on availability of equipment they will fill in for each other.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
does NWA fly to any non US destinations from AMS

AMS-BOM - Operated with 330.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Does NWA employ Dutch flight crew and cabin staff?

No.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Do they also maintain aircraft their?

KLM handles all of NW's maint. and ground support services in AMS. NW does the same for KLM in the US.
 
B747forever
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:29 pm

Quoting NWA757300 (Reply 3):
757-200s, A330-300/200s

Which destinations gets the 757 and which gets the A330.

Can we see NWA base more a/c in AMS???.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
kl911
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Can we see NWA base more a/c in AMS???.

NWA doesn't base any aircraft in AMS. The BOM flight is IIRC the SEA-AMS-BOM-AMS-SEA.

KL911
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
The BOM flight is IIRC the SEA-AMS-BOM-AMS-SEA.

Okey, I see.

But can we see more flight out of AMS with NWA.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
kl911
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
But can we see more flight out of AMS with NWA.

Well, PHL is rumoured and if it happens will be operated by 752, but I have to see it to believe it.

KL911
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 7):
Well, PHL is rumoured and if it happens will be operated by 752, but I have to see it to believe it.

And any cities outside the U.S??

PHL sounds as a good city to serve.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
JRadier
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):

NWA doesn't base any aircraft in AMS. The BOM flight is IIRC the SEA-AMS-BOM-AMS-SEA.

correct. BDL is BOS-AMS-BDL-AMS-BOS
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6089
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):
And any cities outside the U.S??

AMS-BLR was to be flown by NW metal a few years ago but it was cancelled before it started.

No NW aircraft are based in AMS, they all are scheduled in a manner that they routed back through the US. DTW, MSP, & SEA act as A330 bases, and DTW as the 752 TATL base. The other cities act as outstations but the aircraft are rotated back through the hubs every few days.
 
rjpieces
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:45 pm

Are any NW F/As based in AMS? There must be a large amount of crew in the city on any given day! I wonder if they all use the same hotel?

Also, I imagine the NW station manager has quite a fun job...and a good working relationship with KLM...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Also, I imagine the NW station manager has quite a fun job...and a good working relationship with KLM...

There is no Northwest station manager in AMS, just like there are no KLM station managers in the US. Except for cargo it is all NWA in North America and all KLM in Europe. NWA does have a VP at KLM Hdq and likewise KLM in the US.
 
flavio340
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:56 am

NW use to serve DEL and was looking at starting Chennai, India from AMS before they entered bankruptcy. I hope now with final 330's delivered that they bring back these flights. Personally I would rather see more India flights than Europe, and a round-the-world flight would be great again. BTW the United RTW flight routing was SFO-NRT-HKG-DEL-LHR-ORD-SFO, IIRC.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:53 am

Can passengers board at AMS to fly on the SEA-AMS-BOM? Even though the route is not non-stop, this must be one of the longest A330 routes operated...

Surprised there is no other routes beyond AMS other than to the USA and India.

NWA refers to AMS as a hub, but it is not really any more than a large station where KLM is the handling agent. American Airlines at LHR has a larger number of rotations between the US and London (17 a day), but they do not go on about it being a hub!
 
JRadier
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
Can passengers board at AMS to fly on the SEA-AMS-BOM? Even though the route is not non-stop, this must be one of the longest A330 routes operated...

Yes, they have full 5th freedom rights.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):

NWA refers to AMS as a hub, but it is not really any more than a large station where KLM is the handling agent. American Airlines at LHR has a larger number of rotations between the US and London (17 a day), but they do not go on about it being a hub!

In a sense, it is a hub, since they connect various US cities with BOM. And of course the integration with KL is seamless.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 22):
In a sense, it is a hub, since they connect various US cities with BOM.

Does AA fly from LHR to DEL???
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
NWA refers to AMS as a hub, but it is not really any more than a large station where KLM is the handling agent.

Northwest connects to dozens of KLM flights in AMS to Europe, Africa. and the Mid-East that carry a Northwest flight number.
Northwest and KLM have ATI and split revenue.That is not true of AA at LHR.
 
AmtrakGuy
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 1999 11:25 am

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 22):
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
Can passengers board at AMS to fly on the SEA-AMS-BOM? Even though the route is not non-stop, this must be one of the longest A330 routes operated...

Yes, they have full 5th freedom rights.

It been a while I remember what 5th freedom rights -- does this means NWA can fly anywhere from AMS like Africa, Spain, etc?

Also, did NWA got permission to fly to Iraq? If so, was NWA going to fly into Baghdad from AMS?
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5026
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 12):
NWA uses the Golden Tulip City North in Amsterdam for all it's crew. NWA has a deal for 266 rooms per day. All crew stay for 1 night before returning home.

http://www.hobartfoster.nl/referenti...erenties-verhaal-gt-citynorth.html dutch only..

Here is a very loose translation

Quote:
René Buitelaar is the General Manager by it since 1 April jl. open Counted Tulip City North, formerly the Galaxy Hotel to Amsterdam. In the time that the hotel yet the Galaxy was named, was it especially directed on groups of tourists. Now is the Counted Tulip City North mainly directed on the Crew of Northwest Airlines (NWA).

This airline sought a hotel where the entire crew wanted to become housed, in spite of the arrival or the departure. The Counted Tulip City North could this offer and therefore have NWA and the Counted Tulip City North an agreement for increase years closed. NWA rents the entire year through 266 rooms per day. The crew stays the night always 1 night and flies the day after it prevent back to America. Because the hotel with name directed is on the crew of NWA is there also bill loved with the wishes NWA. All rooms are sounds inconvenience court and be foresee for instance of an ironing board. Further have they a 100% darkening because the crew by day sleeps.
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:15 am

After my previous deleted post, let's try again. Cheers srbmod! (note: this message contains sarcasm)

Quoting B747forever (Reply 16):

Does AA fly from LHR to DEL???



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 14):
NWA refers to AMS as a hub, but it is not really any more than a large station where KLM is the handling agent.

I was talking about NW, not AA.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5026
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:25 am

Since SRB mod thought that my original post was worthless.

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 13):
NW use to serve DEL and was looking at starting Chennai, India from AMS before they entered bankruptcy

They had to stop flying it because the US governement didn't want US aircraft to overfly Afghanistan after the war started.

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 18):
It been a while I remember what 5th freedom rights -- does this means NWA can fly anywhere from AMS like Africa, Spain, etc?

www.aviationpast.com/Rights.html

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 14):
American Airlines at LHR has a larger number of rotations between the US and London (17 a day

AA's flights connect only to its hubs. Where as NW's goes far beyond their hubs.
 
SilentObserver
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:45 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:35 am

what is the routing for 332 going in/out of MEM, do they fly a domestic leg to DTW or MSP or simply back to AMS and then to a US base? i have to admit i was a bit surprised when i was at MEM last week and saw a 332... is there a small 332 pilot base at MEM as well?
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:32 am

Here is some data I put together a few months back while doing some research on NWA widebody usage.

Might be out of date







http://homepage.mac.com/justinwdart/.Pictures/NWA/NWAallA330usage.jpg

***NOTE***
Since producing these graphics, NWA has changed some aspects of A330-300 usage with the addition of NRT operations and HNL-KIX.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6089
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting SilentObserver (Reply 22):
what is the routing for 332 going in/out of MEM, do they fly a domestic leg to DTW or MSP or simply back to AMS and then to a US base? i have to admit i was a bit surprised when i was at MEM last week and saw a 332... is there a small 332 pilot base at MEM as well?

A330 pilots fly both the -200 & -300.
The A330 crew bases are at DTW, MSP, & SEA. MEM acts a spoke outstation in regards to the A330. There are no scheduled domestic A330 legs, however there were a number of doemestic A330 routes flown this past summer with the shortage of narrowbody crews.
 
SilentObserver
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:45 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
A330 pilots fly both the -200 & -300.
The A330 crew bases are at DTW, MSP, & SEA. MEM acts a spoke outstation in regards to the A330. There are no scheduled domestic A330 legs, however there were a number of domestic A330 routes flown this past summer with the shortage of narrow body crews.

so the crew trips are (something like):

Day 1: DTW/MSP/SEA-AMS
Day 2: Rest
Day 3: AMS-MEM/BOS/EWR
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: MEM/BOS/EWR-AMS
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: AMS- DTW/MSP/SEA

that is not a very nice trip at all...i would not want to bid that line...

it suprises me that they do not have a crew base in AMS (or NRT for that matter) to run the MEM, BOS & EWR route as spokes... the crews must be really dragging on the end of the trip... does anyone have an idea what a line looks like for these routes?
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):
Quoting KL911 (Reply 7):
Well, PHL is rumoured and if it happens will be operated by 752, but I have to see it to believe it.

And any cities outside the U.S??

PHL sounds as a good city to serve.

PIT was also rumored, but as always, this isn't likely... PHL, who knows, it does look good...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18821
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: NWA @ AMS - Information...

Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 14):
NWA refers to AMS as a hub, but it is not really any more than a large station where KLM is the handling agent. American Airlines at LHR has a larger number of rotations between the US and London (17 a day), but they do not go on about it being a hub!

Since KL and NW have US antitrust immunity they can basically operate as one carrier and agree on capacity, scheduling, pricing, revenue sharing etc. KL/NW were the first carriers to obtain antitrust immunity after the USA and the Netherlands negotiated the very first open-skies agreement in 1992. I believe NW does all pricing from the USA for both carriers and KL does the same for traffic originating Europe. It would be totally illegal for BA and AA do to any of that since they do not have antitrust immunity. All BA/AA can do is codeshare and they can't even do that on USA-LHR routes, at least not until the new US-EU open-skies agreement becomes effective next March.

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