singaporegirl
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SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:24 pm

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=287500

From the article : The SIA's aircraft can also pick up passengers from London's Heathrow Airport and fly them onwards to other cities, including those in the US. Does that mean we can do LHR - JFK, LHR - LAX, etc, soon?
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9VSIO
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:31 pm

With any luck, yes. I'm very excited about the open skies agreement. In fact, this puts a lot of strength into the rumours that SQ is going to sell off their stake in VS.
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
singaporegirl
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 1):

if im not mistaken cx is also doing lhr-jfk right? how are they doing on that route? i've also heard more than once that the company is trying to part ways with vs, so maybe it's true then. do you guys think sin-lhr-jfk would be a very profitable route? would the 77w be best for the route or the a380?
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N383PA
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):
if im not mistaken cx is also doing lhr-jfk right? how are they doing on that route?

The only airlines flying LHR-NYC at present are BA,AA,AI,KU,VS. But next year there will be a few more.  Smile
 
Gemuser
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 1):
With any luck, yes. I'm very excited about the open skies agreement.

This, even if true, has NOTHING to do with the US/EU Open Skys agreement. The SIN government is not a party to that agreement, so it has no effect on SQ.

The right of any airline to operate 5th freedom services (which this would be) depends on the separate bilateral agreements between the airlines government and the government of the other two countries. In this case the SIN-UK(or EU) agreement would have to grant SQ the right to operate 5th freedom flights beyond the UK AND the agreement between SIN & the US government would have to allow for SQ to operate to the US and to exercise 5th freedom rights between the UK & the US. There is NO agreement between the US & UK(EU) reguarding the SQ operation, none is needed.

Gemuser
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9MMAR
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:48 am

So what's the stand now? Can SQ operates Trans Atlantic flights from the UK?

From my understanding, the open skies agreement which will allow carriers from Singapore to have unlimited flights to the UK. Also they are allowed to fly unlimited destinations in the US from UK, as well as UK domestic flights. They can base aircraft in the UK for that purposes. Same for British carriers to Singapore.

It comes almost two decades after Singapore first requested it.
 
easyjet
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:29 am

 
AV8AJET
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:31 am

I would love to see them in ATL but I doubt it  Sad
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BOSSAN
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:55 am

With the existing MALIAT treaty that Singapore and the US are both parties to, and this new Singapore-UK open skies treaty, I see no impediment to Singapore Airlines flying US-LHR starting at the end of March. Both treaties permit unlimited services to and beyond the other country; the UK one also allows airlines to base aircraft in each others' countries. I believe Singapore Airlines could even operate standalone UK-US services that never touch Singapore.

I'm surprised that the UK is continuing to sign aviation treaties, since the EU made such a strong emphasis on its primacy in that area during the EU-US negotiations.
 
SingaporeBoy
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:45 am

Yup..i bet SQ will launch LHR-JFK as soon as they can get enough aircraft.....and then hopefully more flights to ORD...Washington DC,Boston....and maybe in my dreams Miami Atlanta....its time SQ introduces new destinations.
 
CDG
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:38 am

Do they have enough slots ??

Cheers
 
Pieinthesky
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 9):
Yup..i bet SQ will launch LHR-JFK as soon as they can get enough aircraft

They won't be doing anything of the sort until they find someone willing to sell and then part with serious $$$ to buy some more slots. At up to USD20 million a pair, they don't come cheap at LHR.
 
atmx2000
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:32 pm

Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?
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Norcal773
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):



Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 9):

Do you guys know each other?  biggrin 

Anyways, UK-US route will be a carnage sooner or later. Everybody and their grandmother wants a piece of the pie. Good for us, the passengers.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
BCAL
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 13):
Anyways, UK-US route will be a carnage sooner or later. Everybody and their grandmother wants a piece of the pie. Good for us, the passengers

Not necessarily. With all the carriers on the route it will soon be a case of seats chasing passengers, rather than passengers chasing seats, and the situation will become critical during the leaner off-season period. This will initially lead to fares being reduced to loss-making levels, so the airlines will have to resort to reserves to keep the services running.

Many of the US carriers have just emerged from Chapter 11 protection and do not have bottomless pits to resort to, but because of their hubs will see the need to keep services running. BA will hurt, but again they will probably use traffic as feeder for flights from LHR.

But smaller airlines like VS, BD, Eos, Maxjet, SilverJet etc will be vulnerable and could eventually pull out, leaving the majors on the route. Once the smaller airlines are off the scene, fares will rocket.
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Gemuser
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 12):
Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?

If the Eu has not signed an agreement with a country, then the members individual agreements are valid and remain in force IF & UNTIL the EU concludes a Union wide agreement, which then superceeds all indivual member agreements.

So the UK agreement with the US BII, remains in force until the EU wide agreement with the US comes into force in March 08.

Gemuser
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UAL777UK
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 14):
Many of the US carriers have just emerged from Chapter 11 protection and do not have bottomless pits to resort to, but because of their hubs will see the need to keep services running. BA will hurt, but again they will probably use traffic as feeder for flights from LHR.

But smaller airlines like VS, BD, Eos, Maxjet, SilverJet etc will be vulnerable and could eventually pull out, leaving the majors on the route.

I think we can say that BD will be able to feed any US expansion from feed as well at LHR. I dont put them in the above bracket.
 
vv701
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:08 pm

Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 8):
I'm surprised that the UK is continuing to sign aviation treaties, since the EU made such a strong emphasis on its primacy in that area during the EU-US negotiations.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 12):
Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?

EU regulations permit member states to sign new bilateral air transport agreements with other states where there is no EU agreement and when the agreement meets certain minimum levels of liberalisation. This explains why the UK signed an Open Skies agreement with Canada last year and has now done so with Singapore.
 
ANother
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 5):
They can base aircraft in the UK for that purposes.



Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 8):
I believe Singapore Airlines could even operate standalone UK-US services that never touch Singapore.

Not certain about this. 7ths are not part of the SIN-US agreement, which would be required for standalone operations even if the UK has given Singapore airlines 7ths. I suspect this is change of gauge rather than 7ths.

Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 8):
I'm surprised that the UK is continuing to sign aviation treaties, since the EU made such a strong emphasis on its primacy in that area during the EU-US negotiations.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 12):
Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?

The ECJ did not rule on the US-UK (Bermuda II) agreement it ruled on a number of pre-existing open skies agreements that the US had with countries like the Netherlands, France, Italy etc. It did NOT rule the agreements were 'illegal', what it did was rule that one clause was not compatible with EU law. The clause that required airlines designated by a Member State be nationals of THAT member state.

The EC has the mandate to renegotiate this clause (and only this clause) with third countries. US-EU was an exception where the European Council of Ministers (read Member States) gave the mandate to the EC to renegotiate all aspects of existing ASAs the MSs had with the US.

This week the EC was given a new mandate from the Council - to negotiate an open-skies agreement with Canada.

We shall see if the council is in the mood to add other countries to this very short list, however in the meantime each MS retains the right to negotiate / renegotiate ASAs with third countries - however they are expected to bring the ASA in compliance with EU law. Nothing in the press indicates that Singapore has agreed to the community air carrier clause, but even if they haven't this doesn't put the UK in breach for two reasons. 1. The agreement is more liberal than the previous agreement (which is a good thing), and 2. The UK only has to show they made best efforts, if Singapore refused to discuss it it well ...

[Edited 2007-10-04 07:02:01]

[Edited 2007-10-04 07:02:55]
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:59 pm

Yes, yes, yes!!! So now I can still go back to living in the US, being a PPS Clubber, and flying SQ accross the pond.

This feels like a dream. Somebody pinch me!

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
BOSSAN
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 18):
Not certain about this. 7ths are not part of the SIN-US agreement, which would be required for standalone operations even if the UK has given Singapore airlines 7ths. I suspect this is change of gauge rather than 7ths.

I see that the MALIAT agreement permits cargo sevenths but not passenger sevenths. Thank you for pointing that out.

Quote:
Article 2 1. c. the right, in accordance with the terms of their designations, to perform scheduled and charter international air transportation between points on the following route:
From points behind the territory of the Party designating the airline via that Party and intermediate points to any point or points in the territory of any other Party and beyond;
For all-cargo service or services, between the territory of the Party granting the right and any point or points;
 
jfk777
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:20 pm

They wanted JFK-LHR-SIN since they started flying via FRA to JFK, so the New York to London is the one they want. I wouldn't get too excited about all kinds of new flights SIA might have from LHR to the USA, they still have to get slots and keep there present 3 daily LHR to SIN flights.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:19 pm

It would be interesting if the *A came back with LHR-JFK flights offered by SQ.
 
ANother
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:11 pm

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 22):
It would be interesting if the *A came back with LHR-JFK flights offered by SQ.

Anyone know if code-share flights are envisioned?
 
Viscount724
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting N383PA (Reply 3):
Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):
if im not mistaken cx is also doing lhr-jfk right? how are they doing on that route?

The only airlines flying LHR-NYC at present are BA, AA ,AI, KU, VS. But next year there will be a few more.

CX has never operated LHR-JFK. If you go back far enough to 707 and DC-8 days, both QF and JL had 5th freedom service LHR-JFK as part of their round-the-world service. That ended about the time 747s replaced the 707s and DC-8s.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
They wanted JFK-LHR-SIN since they started flying via FRA to JFK, so the New York to London is the one they want.

SQ also operated 5th freedom service AMS-ORD for a while. I don't think UA was very happy with that operation by another Star Alliance carrier to a major UA hub and it didn't last very long.
 
airbazar
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:50 pm

This is huge. As the article indicates, SQ has been after this for years and years. The irony of course is that with open skies between Britain and the US, operating between LHR and the US may no longer be of much interest to SQ, which is probably why the British government finally allowed it.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 4):
This, even if true, has NOTHING to do with the US/EU Open Skys agreement. The SIN government is not a party to that agreement, so it has no effect on SQ.

However, it has everything to do with the Singapore-Britain opens skies agreement which is what both the article and this thread are about.

Quoting Pieinthesky (Reply 11):
They won't be doing anything of the sort until they find someone willing to sell and then part with serious $$$ to buy some more slots. At up to USD20 million a pair, they don't come cheap at LHR.

Did you forget that SQ already has LHR slots? They can use them the same way they use FRA. Instead of turning around in LHR they'll just turn around in some city in the US. And if they really want more slots, if there's one airline that can afford to buy slots on the open market it's SQ. Nevertheless, there are slots to be had at LHR, very cheaply. They're just not at a very favorable time to most carriers. We'll see what the future holds. It will certainly be interesting.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
they still have to get slots and keep there present 3 daily LHR to SIN flights.

See my comment above. Also, with the introduction of the A380 they could easily reduce it to twice daily and keep about the same amount of seats and then use the 3rd set of slots for a onwards flight to the US.

[Edited 2007-10-04 11:22:59]
 
David_itl
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:16 pm

SQ was offered MAN-JFK rights years ago but insisted on having LHR-JFK. And they would be mad as hell should CX be allowed on LHR-JFK many years afer SQ requested them
 
alangirvan
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:28 pm

Quoting David_itl (Reply 26):



Quoting David_itl (Reply 26):
SQ was offered MAN-JFK rights years ago but insisted on having LHR-JFK. And they would be mad as hell should CX be allowed on LHR-JFK many years afer SQ requested them

CX got the right to fly LHR-JFK at the time that Virgin got the right to fly beyond HKG to Sydney. They have not started using that right yet, but it is available to them when it suits them.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):
if im not mistaken cx is also doing lhr-jfk right?

No ...but they do however have the rights, they've chosen instead to use all of their slots for homehub services.
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scotron11
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Singaporegirl (Thread starter):

From the article : The SIA's aircraft can also pick up passengers from London's Heathrow Airport and fly them onwards to other cities, including those in the US. Does that mean we can do LHR - JFK, LHR - LAX, etc, soon?

I guess the same would apply for BA xSIN?
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):
i've also heard more than once that the company is trying to part ways with vs, so maybe it's true then. do you guys think sin-lhr-jfk would be a very profitable route? would the 77w be best for the route or the a380?

Me thinks the A380 would be great for this route because these sectors are in high demand.

Quoting Coal (Reply 19):
Yes, yes, yes!!! So now I can still go back to living in the US, being a PPS Clubber, and flying SQ accross the pond.

Don't count your coins so soon...

Experts reckoned LHR is operating at 99% slot capacity presently, leaving only 1% for numerous carriers to fight it out. I am not sure how much will SQ edge into this with the agreement so it remains to be seen. So yes, the OSA is there in theory, but the reality might paint a different picture because LHR just cannot cope. Will SQ be allowed access into the less busy LGW? LTN perhaps?
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
GneissGuy
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:52 am

This is the biggest thing to have happened to Singapore's aviation sector and SIA, dwarfing even the upcoming launch of the first A380 flight.

Without a doubt, entry into the UK market is a coveted prize, one that SQ has been eyeing for many years without much success. With this new agreement, SQ can (and probably will) want to start some flights to the east coast of the USA out of the UK. Of course, as rightly mentioned by the above posts, slots are limited @ Heathrow, but SQ already does 3 flights a day there with quite a far amount of success, so some timetable adjustments should be able to see them convert one or two of those dailies into stopovers for 5th freedom sectors onwards across the Atlantic.

What is more interesting to me is how this development will affect the global air hub hierarchy. Singapore aspires to be a global air hub and its liberal aviation policies have justified this. Singapore has a very similar agreement with Dubai which allows its carriers unlimited freedoms out of DXB. Are we seeing the start of a global consolidation of "mega-hubs"? Imagine this, should SQ be able to set up a mini hub in London (provided they sort out the slot constraints), it can base aircraft there for its European and East USA operations. So the day may actually come when there ceases to be direct flights from say SIN to CDG or SIN to FCO, but instead passengers going to CDG or FCO on SQ will have to fly into SQ's London Hub and make a transit into a smaller regional aircraft (either SQ equipment or codeshared with another carrier) for their onward flights to other European destinations. The extra aircraft and frames can then be used to increase capacity and frequency on the SIN-London route, possibly to even 5 or 7x daily. Maybe i am speculating too much here, but as a business model this does make a lot of sense.

Also, the SIN-UK agreement comes in the period of the introduction of the A380s (the hub-makers). I forsee that SQ will eventually use all their A380s on the SIN-LHR routes, and possibly on a future LHR-JFK routing. All this just means that passengers should benefit from the lower fares on offer.

I'm not sure about the UK domestic scene, but this could also herald SQ embarking on codesharing agreements with some UK regional carriers to sell SQ tickets to other secondary cities within the UK. I doubt that SQ will fly any of its aircraft via carbotage domestically within the UK even though they can now do so.

All i can say for now is "Exciting times ahead!" and forgive my excitment as i'm still taking in the news. =)

So what say you, Australia government?
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 31):
So what say you, Australia government?

Dear Howie is probably squriming in his seat now... "I don't bloody believe this...! Crikey!!!"
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
Gemuser
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 31):
So what say you, Australia government?

SQs still NOT getting Oz - USA rights!!!  Smile

Gemuser
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AA7295
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:43 am

This leaves one last route for SQ to conquer..... Australia-USA (via Pacific Ocean). Chances of this happening are very slim. While I would prefer to see more US carriers on the route (for ongoing connections), such as DL making an entrance and NW returning, I think the route is underserviced with QF having the largest market share. The BNE market needs to be cracked by another airline, and UA could do with increasing their MEL and SYD frequencies once their product is improved.

What would Star Alliance airlines have to say if SQ started flying from LHR to JFK. Also what would UA and NZ say if SQ flew SYD/MEL/BNE to LAX/SFO?

Regards,
AA7295
 
worldrider
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:13 am

one thing is clear, if that happens, SQ will start a slots war that other airlines will have to reply to, that will spread to other big airports and as a consequense the A380 will become VERY attractive..good news for airbus!
 
BrianDromey
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 31):
I doubt that SQ will fly any of its aircraft via carbotage domestically within the UK even though they can now do so.

LBA-LHR on an SQ 77W,  Smile

Seriously though, I dont believe that SQ would make LON a mega hub, for two reasons
a) Slot Availability (not the cash to pay for them)
b) Market Fragmentation. If they were going to consolidate to a few major hub destinations then thoy would have ordered 748i instead of A350/787
c) Current ownership in VS. If SQ had wanted to they could have used the substantial VS transatlantic network to funnel flights into and out of SIN. Instead they launched ultra long haul US flights.

SQ could do very well on LHR-US flights, and be a real compeditor for *A against BA. However frequency might not be great, and timings might be pretty nasty for onward coonection possibilities from Europe, as with the current FRA service.
I suppose a BD codeshare/joint venture on the NYC route might work pretty well, as they could share risks and have a greater frequency. BD might not reach the world leading standard of SQ, but they are far and away above most of the rest of the *A and the US carriers.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
Pieinthesky
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 25):
Did you forget that SQ already has LHR slots? They can use them the same way they use FRA. Instead of turning around in LHR they'll just turn around in some city in the US. And if they really want more slots, if there's one airline that can afford to buy slots on the open market it's SQ. Nevertheless, there are slots to be had at LHR, very cheaply. They're just not at a very favorable time to most carriers. We'll see what the future holds. It will certainly be interesting

What on earth are you talking about ??. Yes SQ has slots, and they use them to fly three times daily very full 744's to Changi, so they ain't going to be changing them are they ?.

If they want to fly to the US, they'll need to buy more. Of course they can afford them, so can most other airlines to a certain point, but they have to make commericial sense and that means being at the right time. They are cheaper slots at LHR, but they are crap times like you say, so in other words they are pointless. If they thought it made sense to buy extra slots they would have done so like EK have done. Instead they looked into starting a daily flight from LGW for a while.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 25):
Also, with the introduction of the A380 they could easily reduce it to twice daily and keep about the same amount of seats and then use the 3rd set of slots for a onwards flight to the US.

SQ reduce SIN-LHR to twice daily ??. Another good one !. I take you haven't flown that route often on SQ ?.

The reason they will be flying the A380 to LHR is because they need the additional capacity, so they're hardly going to wait all this time to get them on the route and then drop a third of the capacity that they will have then are they ?. There is a reason that despite the other destinations in Europe that had F getting the new J and F product LHR is the only one has been stuck exclusively with only the old products. That's because they need all the seats they can get on the route.

If they want to fly across the pond from LHR, they are going to have to shell out for slots. FACT. Has anybody pointed this out yet ?.
 
9VSIO
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RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:25 pm

Maybe one day SQ will have a pilot hub in the UK and I can live my dream....

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 36):
c) Current ownership in VS.

It has been pointed out that SQ's chairman is unhappy with the performance of that stake and may look to offload it. In any case, these things take time to implement, so I'm going to stay in the short term, status quo will be maintained.
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:03 pm

Quoting Pieinthesky (Reply 37):
What on earth are you talking about ??. Yes SQ has slots, and they use them to fly three times daily very full 744's to Changi, so they ain't going to be changing them are they ?.



Quoting Pieinthesky (Reply 37):
SQ reduce SIN-LHR to twice daily ??. Another good one !. I take you haven't flown that route often on SQ ?.

You missed my point entirely, or maybe I didn't explain it right.

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 31):
but SQ already does 3 flights a day there with quite a far amount of success, so some timetable adjustments should be able to see them convert one or two of those dailies into stopovers for 5th freedom sectors onwards across the Atlantic.

He understands what I was talking about.
 
sq452
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 9):
Yup..i bet SQ will launch LHR-JFK as soon as they can get enough aircraft.....and then hopefully more flights to ORD...Washington DC,Boston....and maybe in my dreams Miami Atlanta....its time SQ introduces new destinations.

AH YES! They have their way into BOS now (maybe through MAN?)! Does anyone know what UA did with their BOS>LHR slot once they shut that route down? Who got it?

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
They wanted JFK-LHR-SIN since they started flying via FRA to JFK, so the New York to London is the one they want. I wouldn't get too excited about all kinds of new flights SIA might have from LHR to the USA, they still have to get slots and keep there present 3 daily LHR to SIN flights.

Or, if they have the A380's in, they could reduce SIN>LHR frequencies with the added capacity and still maintain the seats available (roughly, minus a few) with the thrice daily 747-400 service. They could then use that extra slot for something to the U.S. Although given SIN>LHR is one of their more lucrative routes I would think you'd see 3 A380's on that route before they drop it to twice daily.

Also keep in mind the US and Singapore have an open skies agreement...this is going to get interesting, although it didn't get a lot of coverage here in Singapore, less than I expected at least.

I'd expect them to start service from MAN to US destinations before anything at LHR. They only operate MAN with a few flights a week, they could easily extend the route to a U.S. destination without having to sacrifice too much.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting CDG (Reply 10):
Do they have enough slots ??

That's my question. Just because open skies is happening, people here on a.net are putting all these new airlines and flights from LHR to the U.S. Heathrow will still be slot restricted, and the opening of T5 is not going to change that, nor will open skies. There will still be a finite number of slots available during the times airlines will want to make Tatl flights. Unless other airlines sell slots, there is not going to be a huge jump of new service like everyone thinks.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5950
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 40):
I'd expect them to start service from MAN to US destinations before anything at LHR. They only operate MAN with a few flights a week, they could easily extend the route to a U.S. destination without having to sacrifice too much

SQ currently flies 5 weekly 772ERs into MAN which will go to daily from the beginning of the winter timetable. They have talked of going to 10 weekly should demand be there. And interestingly enough, the CAA produced a study on SQ operating SIN-MAN-IAD which implied that it would have a negative effect on the UK economy.....but that was at a time when BD were operating MAN-IAD. Besides, one would have to assume the majority of 5th freedom servies afforded to SQ would be out of LHR given the higher number of premium paying passengers in the LHR catchment area.
 
Eirules
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
If you go back far enough to 707 and DC-8 days, both QF and JL had 5th freedom service LHR-JFK as part of their round-the-world service. That ended about the time 747s replaced the 707s and DC-8s.

Am I not right in saying that QF still has the rights to operate LHR-JFK and they, like CX, are currently choosing not to operate it, perhaps due to not wanting to p**s BA off.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 40):
Does anyone know what UA did with their BOS>LHR slot once they shut that route down? Who got it?

I may be wrong but for some reason I think VS bought slots from UA, but Im not sure if this was from the BOS-LHR route or the JFK-LHR one.


I must say that while I think SQ are a very fine airline and I love to travel on them and would love the option of flying them to USA, I am not entirely comfortable about SQ (or any other mega airline such as EK or CX or any other) just flying whatever routes they want in the world. I like everyone lese loves competition of the various reasons stated, but there is something comforting about the current status quo. I like different airlines, I like national airlines with a national identity. I like the fact that if Im flying from say UK to US its likely I'll be on a British or American carrier rather than one from China or UAE. I dont want that eroded, but perhaps Im living in a romantic dream in an age gone by
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
BOSSAN
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:49 am

RE: SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 40):
Does anyone know what UA did with their BOS>LHR slot once they shut that route down? Who got it?



Quote:
Business Travel News: Monday, October 20 2003

BA Grabs Two Pairs Of Heathrow Slots From United

British Airways obtained two pairs of daily slots at London Heathrow Airport from United Airlines to further stengthen its position at the heavily restricted European gateway. United's slots became available when the carrier decided to eliminate service between Newark and London. United plans to continue New York JFK-London service. Continental Airlines expressed "outrage" over the transaction, stating, "British Airways' purchases are a scheme to prevent any slots from being available to new U.S. airline competitors should London Heathrow open to competition." BA also will obtain eight of the 14 daily Heathrow slot pairs owned by Swiss International Airlines as part of an alliance agreement between the two (BTN, Oct. 6). BA now controls more than 40 percent of Heathrow's slots.

I believe this was actually the sale of the slots for United's once-daily Newark-Heathrow and Boston-Heathrow flights.

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