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ua2162
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AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:27 pm

I guess bookings have been pretty good. From Pacific Business News:

"Alaska Airlines announced Wednesday it will expand its planned Anchorage-Honolulu service. The non-stop flights, set to begin Dec. 9, were to run daily through April 26, 2008, Alaska is now adding Friday and Saturday flights from April 27 through Oct. 25. One-way fares to Honolulu are selling for as low as $249."

Now the question is when will they begin OGG and KOA service?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:04 pm

Quoting Ua2162 (Thread starter):

Well, they have to sort of - since they bought out Hawaiian Vacations. Alas, no more HA 767s in ANC! Damnit!

And alas, AS will (already HAS) increased fares to over $700 r/t on the run. Try to find the fare quoted in the article on the AS web site for more than 2-3 seats per flight.  sarcastic 


Please note the article in today's Anchorage Daily News:


http://www.adn.com/money/industries/...lines/story/9352692p-9266858c.html

And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .  sarcastic 

So long HA, I'll miss you.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AA737-823
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:18 am

And ANCFlyer echoes the sentiments felt by all of us.
Go figure, they put Hawaiian out of town, and then decide to run a twice weekly HNL flight. Won't make up for a twice weekly 767-300, but hey, whatever floats their boat.
 Yeah sure
 
Chugach
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:22 am

Bet you summer frequency is increased before it's all said and done, if not this year than next. And agreed about the prices. Who didn't see that one coming.

Alas, it's better than not having any service at all!
GO ROCKETS
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
Go figure, they put Hawaiian out of town, and then decide to run a twice weekly HNL flight. Won't make up for a twice weekly 767-300, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

And of course, as 'decent' as AS cabin service may be - not consistently of course - it will never, ever compare to the excellent service offered by HA.

Quoting Chugach (Reply 3):
And agreed about the prices. Who didn't see that one coming.

Only a fool didn't see that coming. McMurren predicted it immediately . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
lhpdx
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:02 pm

I'm still waiting for Alaska's PDX-Hawaii announcement...........
 
717-200
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:32 pm

Sorry to see the HA763's get replaced with AS738's and the fares going up to boot as well. I just cannot see being shoehorned into a 738 for 6 hours. I guess some people are going to get a case of claustrophobia when they go on their next trip down to the islands expecting a 763 and have to get on a 738.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
HAL
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 6):
I just cannot see being shoehorned into a 738 for 6 hours.

Probably a lot more than that. My guess is that, especially in the winter time, some of the AS flights will have to go through SEA because they won't be able to make it nonstop ANC-HNL against the winds. Plus, they won't be carrying a full load of pax because even with a tech stop, they can't fill the plane with bags and pax.

I'm not trying to be an AS basher, but I do know a lot about ETOPS operations; AS is treading on the razors edge of range and performance by doing these flights with the 738.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
yvr1968
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:49 pm

Maybe they will even start YVR-HNL service.
Since Aloha discontinued service last year, there are no US carriers on this route.
Westjet, Air Canada and Air Pacific are the only carriers flying to Hawaii from YVR.
 
alaska737
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting HAL (Reply 7):
I'm not trying to be an AS basher, but I do know a lot about ETOPS operations; AS is treading on the razors edge of range and performance by doing these flights with the 738.

first off i dont think they would put this much time and effort into the new service if they werent sure it would work and second of all i know Aloha did this route with a -700 and didnt have any problems
 
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aloha73g
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 9):
first off i dont think they would put this much time and effort into the new service if they werent sure it would work and second of all i know Aloha did this route with a -700 and didnt have any problems

The -700 has quite a bit more range than the -800.....especially where ETOPS is concerned. It is one of the main reasons Aloha opted for the -700 over the -800.

HAL is right. AQ had trouble with range to/from YVR in the winter and I can imagine that AS will have a few problems on some days to/from ANC.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
717-200
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:25 pm

Maybe AS should get their -700's ETOPS certified like AQ.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Ok, since EA CO AS hasn't responded yet, I will.
It's a business, not a charity.
 devil 

And, you're still buying me a Redhook when I make it up there.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 6):
I just cannot see being shoehorned into a 738 for 6 hours.

Well, AS has been flying transcon with 73G/738/739 for some time now, and a lot of those flights are in the
6 hour range. The load factors have been good, so what's the diff between ANC/HNL and SEA/DCA?
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
So long HA, I'll miss you.

If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market, notwithstanding AS' purchase of Hawaiian Vacations?
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
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aloha73g
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 13):
The load factors have been good, so what's the diff between ANC/HNL and SEA/DCA?

ETOPS. These flights are over the longest stretches of open ocean on earth and require higher fuel reserves than trans-con flights as well as special crew training and equipment.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
RyDawg82
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 15):
These flights are over the longest stretches of open ocean on earth and require higher fuel reserves than trans-con flights as well as special crew training and equipment.

ETOPS training had been in the works for a long time. I believe initially ANC based pilots and SEA based F/As will bid these routes. The aircraft do require additional training and equipment, but this doesn't greatly differentiate it from Transcon Ops. The fuel reserves will prove interesting; however, this isn't something AS casually forgot about when launching the route. Sure AQ ran into payload issues with the 73G, but I can imagine AS has thought this through and will make it work. Certainly doesn't mean there won't be payload issues at time. Even the ORD-ANC route isn't exempt from payload considerations at times, or at lease when it was operated by a 73G (factors included ATC and Winds).

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Quoting HAL (Reply 7):
My guess is that, especially in the winter time, some of the AS flights will have to go through SEA because they won't be able to make it nonstop ANC-HNL against the winds. Plus, they won't be carrying a full load of pax because even with a tech stop, they can't fill the plane with bags and pax.

HAL Just curious, do the winds aloft differ that greatly between a ANC-HNL and SEA-HNL flight? While I don't work for AS, I certainly doubt that a SEA tech stop would be considered along the ANC-HNL flight.
ANC-HNL 2413 nm
SEA-HNL 2326 nm
ANC-SEA 1259 nm
Im sure the folks in dispatch and weight & balance would put other options to work before making said journey, considering the routes differ by only 87 nm. I guess if the jetstream was kickin' good enough from the south I could see the thought behind this. You always have great insight, so just hoping to learn something.   


Ryan

[Edited 2007-10-05 18:46:16]
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 15):
ETOPS. These flights are over the longest stretches of open ocean on earth and require higher fuel reserves than trans-con flights as well as special crew training and equipment

I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about being in a 738 versus a 763 for 6 hours. The poster I was
responding to had commented that people wouldn't want to be in a 738 for that long, but it has been proven
that they will fly on AS' transcons.

Also, as far as the payload restrictions go, it is certain that some seats will be blocked due to this, but there
has been a recent FAA change as FAR (pun intended) as fuel reserves go. This should help both the payload
AS can carry in either direction, and the overall profitabilty of the routes.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
Lono
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Indeed!...

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 12):
Ok, since EA CO AS hasn't responded yet, I will.
It's a business, not a charity.

AS's day will come... Oh yes their day will come...

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 14):
If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market, notwithstanding AS' purchase of Hawaiian Vacations?

...

It was a charter.... Now AS Will continue to have the good people in Alaska pay for their lower 48 battles....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
ha763
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 9):
of all i know Aloha did this route with a -700 and didnt have any problems

AQ routinely left bags behind for HA to take to HNL.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:38 pm

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 12):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Ok, since EA CO AS hasn't responded yet, I will.
It's a business, not a charity.

Ha Ha Ha . . . yeah, I expected to see him pop in ASAP and tell me to pound sand.

Business it may be, but the fleecing of Alaskans by the monopoly that is AS continues . . . unabated. We subsidize AS operations in the Lower 48 along the West Coast so they can continue to 'compete' with other carriers low fares.

Sorry, those are simply the facts. Ignore them if you want.

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 12):
And, you're still buying me a Redhook when I make it up there.

Absolutely! Or we could just grab an Alaska Summer Ale from the keg on my bar . . .  biggrin 

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 14):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
So long HA, I'll miss you.

If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market

Charter Operation. Not regular schedule. I'd love to see HA stay here though, with their 767s.

Quoting Lono (Reply 18):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Indeed!...

See, I told you . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
L-188
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE

They aren't our hometown airline. They are just another Seattle based entity that rape Alaska, just like the fishing industry before statehood.

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 14):
If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market, notwithstanding AS' purchase of Hawaiian Vacations?

Hard to loose money when it is a charter and somebody else is paying the bills.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
717-200
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:22 pm

It kinda surprised me in the aftermath of WN's rejected bid to transfer service from KSEA to KBFI they did not start some SEA-ANC and/or FAI flights to get back at the grinning eskimo. But then again while folks in AK complain about being turned up side down and shaken out when they go on AS, they seem to be addicted to their Mileage Plan like crack addicts. But then again this is a symptom of why many of the US legacies are screwed up. The traveling public has traded in good service for that ever elusive carrot called free award travel and upgrades to F.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
L-188
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:35 pm

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 22):
they seem to be addicted to their Mileage Plan like crack addicts

It is the only one with any meaning since AS is the only airline on most routes, ditto for their partner companies up here.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
socalatc
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:03 pm

Quoting Lono (Reply 18):
It was a charter.... Now AS Will continue to have the good people in Alaska pay for their lower 48 battles....

Dont Alaskan's get money every year from the government just because they live in Alaska? Im sure operating costs to fly intra Alaska and from Alaska are much higher than the lower 48.. So it makes sense to me that the fares would be a little higher. Do Alaskan's also bitch and moan about paying more for grocery's? Gas? cloths? ext... Why is airfare any different?
 
RyDawg82
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 24):
Dont Alaskan's get money every year from the government just because they live in Alaska?

I didn't think I would be discussing this in the CivilAv room; however, the Alaska Permanent Fund was established in 1980 to share the wealth of the Alaska Permanent Fund with the people of Alaska. The dividend payments are based on a five-year average of the Permanent Fund's earnings, which helps to stabilize the dividends as the stock market and oil market changes from year to year. In order to actually get this money, the individual must have lived in the State for a full calendar year before claiming the next years dividend. The first check in 1980 gave each eligible resident $1000. Since then amounts as small as $331.29, or as large as $1963.86 have been paid.

Despite popular belief the funds are not just handed to you the day you cross into the state (sorry Homer). The money is purely to share the profits of the resources removed from the state. It is in no way a Cost of Living allowance check. Those working in government positions or with certain private employers may receive such an adjustment in their Salary. Also of note, certain residents of Texas get a similar dividend for the oil profits in their area of Texas, I have heard some pretty impressive dividend amounts paid out in these situations. For some reason everyone has this idea that Alaska pays you to live there. I guess if you take the average amount at $1000 bucks, Alaska is paying you $12.50 over 2 weeks of full-time employment.

At one time Alaska Airlines (and others) would hold the PFD sale in late fall. You used to be able to give your PFD to the airline, in return you would receive a certain amount of roundtrip tickets on the airline. Those days are gone, however; Alaska Airlines still launches their PFD sale in Fall with slightly reduced fares throughout their system. The kicker is, these fares are open to all (Alaskans or not) -- essentially it's no different than United's "Fall Fare Sale" or the like.

You can also reference:
http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/
http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/Promo/farepromos/PFD2008.asp

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 24):
Do Alaskan's also bitch and moan about paying more for grocery's? Gas? cloths? ext...

Certain groceries are more expensive in Alaska, again look at the options for getting them up there. Either by air, boat, truck. It depends where you are in the state. My point of reference comes from being born in ANC and living there over 12 years (obviously off and on, as I am no where near 12 years old). Groceries out on Adak Island are ungawdly priced, as out in the Bush or up North. Everyday items in Anchorage aren't so bad, but you notice it on certain items such as Soda ($6-8 for a 12-pack, on sale for maybe $4 -- when the everyday price in Texas is $3.50 on sale for $2.50.

Gas back in 2002 was slightly higher than prices in say Colorado, but overall the prices of gas have remained consistent with prices in the south. Looking at http://www.alaskagasprices.com/ it appears the cost of gas is $2.83 - $2.87 per gallon. Just slightly higher than Texas, but well above the $2.12 per gallon price in Oklahoma.

Alaska is a different beast. But the whole point about people discussing airfares is the lack of competition. There is plenty of demand and limited supply. As Hike's stated, its a business not a charity. But for the folks living there, its hard to watch HA and NW offering competitive fares to HI, then AS comes in and NW/HA leaves and the fares shoot up. Sure it's business, but its something that Alaskan's have seen time after time after time.

Ryan
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 25):
At one time Alaska Airlines (and others) would hold the PFD sale in late fall.

They haven't had a good one of those since MarkAir went under in 96.

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 24):
Do Alaskan's also bitch and moan about paying more for grocery's? Gas? cloths?

Yest we do.

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 24):
Why is airfare any different?

As RwDawg82 pointed out, it is a single competitor market and has really been that since Markair went under in 1982, due to piss-poor management.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
WeAreUnited
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:02 pm

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
They haven't had a good one of those since MarkAir went under in 96.



Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
As RwDawg82 pointed out, it is a single competitor market and has really been that since Markair went under in 1982, due to piss-poor management.

Wait.... MarkAir went under in '96 or '82?!?

I'm thinking '82 but I'm not sure.
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:09 pm

Woops, it was 96.....Wien went under in 84.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
alaska737
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RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 24):
Dont Alaskan's get money every year from the government just because they live in Alaska? Im sure operating costs to fly intra Alaska and from Alaska are much higher than the lower 48.. So it makes sense to me that the fares would be a little higher. Do Alaskan's also bitch and moan about paying more for grocery's? Gas? cloths? ext... Why is airfare any different?

yeah thats a good point

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
They haven't had a good one of those since MarkAir went under in 96.

well they still have PFD sales..they just might not be as big as when they had a competitor, but they still have them

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 27):
Wait.... MarkAir went under in '96 or '82?!?

according to my Alaska Geographic book, MarkAir went under in 1995 but as i remember they really didnt have much of a presence in AK at that time, by then they were in Denver and Newark
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 29):
yeah thats a good point

No, it is a completely irrelevent point.

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 29):
well they still have PFD sales..they just might not be as big as when they had a competitor

Thanks for confirming what I was saying, the quality of the offers have tanked since the last true competitor went under.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 30):
No, it is a completely irrelevent point.

well honestly every Alaskan on this site does nothing but bitch about Alaska Airlines, and considering that they are the only lifeline to a number of destinations that NO other airline would consider flying a jet as large as a 737 to...i think they deserve a little more than what you give them...and frankly i dont think there prices are that high...yeah maybe if you book it 2 days in advance. and yeah maybe their service has gone down since the early 90's but what airlines hasnt? and well i cant really justify the ANC check in area....thats just um well, bad.
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 31):
honestly every Alaskan on this site does nothing but bitch about Alaska Airlines,

You think there might be a reason for that?

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 31):
the only lifeline to a number of destinations that NO other airline would consider flying a jet as large as a 737

A lot of those towns would be better served with multiple flights of smaller aircraft then a jet a day. This jet a day fixation is one of the remaining remants of the old regulated airlines.

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 31):
well i cant really justify the ANC check in area

Agreed, it looks like one of the fake "outdoorsey" schemes like you would find in Seattle..
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 32):
A lot of those towns would be better served with multiple flights of smaller aircraft then a jet a day. This jet a day fixation is one of the remaining remants of the old regulated airlines.

well AS doesnt have anything smaller than a -700 and i dont think anyone would want to be stuck in a B-1900 going from ANC-OME

Quoting L-188 (Reply 32):
You think there might be a reason for that?

i honestly believe that its something along the lines of "you dont realize what you have until its gone" people are always going to bitch and moan about pricing of whatever, gas, airfare, hotels...but guess what they still buy them, i think people just bitch to bitch
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 33):
well AS doesnt have anything smaller than

Let us not forget the U.S. Government pays AS to fly to some of these places..... I think that some places in Alaska do not need a Federal subsidy... if AS pulled out someone would go in with correct sized equipment.... some of the places that get the grinning eskimo have less than 2000 people living there.....

Quoting L-188 (Reply 32):
You think there might be a reason for that?

Yes and anyone who lives here knows the reasons... and there are many..

Quoting L-188 (Reply 28):
Wien went under in 84.

If you recall Wien actually went under twice.... the original Wien and the "New Employee Owned Wien"...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 9):
if AS pulled out someone would go in with correct sized equipment

As much as I hate to say Ted isn't helping the situation with the bypass mail program. The new rules are ment to favor mixed jet traffic over cargo and smaller aircraft.

Quoting Lono (Reply 9):
If you recall Wien actually went under twice....

Sorry I am just young enough to remember "The Flood of 84"

Hard to believe that was almost a quarter century ago.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule

Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
remember "The Flood of 84"

Yes James Flood actually sold Wien twice.... once to the Employees and again after the Employees lost their shirts and Flood got the whole thing back....and he sold it off in parts.... I think the operating certifiate went to Polar Cargo ....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!